Kelly on Trump

[hoosboot]

Maybe. But I don’t really know what he would’ve done differently that wouldn’t have disrupted people’s lives as much as it did. Not, anyway, unless we were going to follow Sweden’s lead in not just shutting everything down.

And, besides, a whole lot of the policy responses were done by states, not the feds.

I just think it was the disruption itself in most cases - which caused political problems for government leaders everywhere.

If that were the case, wouldn't state governors have also lost their reelection bids overwhelmingly? Only one did though and that's because voters in those states didn't think their governor shit the bed on Covid the way voters felt Trump did. If it was just Covid, we would have seen those governors losing reelection overwhelmingly. But it wasn't. Voters throw out everyone because of Covid. They threw out Trump.

Hoos, my man, we seem to have some timeline confusion here.

You just linked a story from 2022 to explain an event from 2020.

Let's not talk about that. Let's go back to #2. 🍳🤦‍♂️🤣

Totally had my timeline confused and got excited when I remembered it was May...just didn't remember it was May 2022. My bad. I own it and move on (back to that really good point I have about #2 🤣)

It’s not just me who thinks it. That’s the reason I pulled the quotes from Axe and Murphy - two seasoned political pros who very much want her to win.

If they’re right that Trump’s numbers aren’t movable, then any effort made to try to move them is just as wasted as the energy expended in trying to push an immovable object. It’s not just that it’s futile, it’s that it expends limited resources that could and should be used to do what she needs to do.

And I don’t mean money. That’s not the limited resource. I’m thinking about things like time and attention.

Like I've said...I agree with part of it. But I think it's a mistake if you think it's about trying to move Trump's numbers. She isn't trying to move the immovable. I think the campaign is trying to motivate...both her base and her reliable demographics (particularly young voters) who don't tend to actually cast ballots reliably. I think it's a mistake to do only that, but there's value in that, too.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

If that were the case, wouldn't state governors have also lost their reelection bids overwhelmingly? Only one did though and that's because voters in those states didn't think their governor shit the bed on Covid the way voters felt Trump did. If it was just Covid, we would have seen those governors losing reelection overwhelmingly. But it wasn't. Voters throw out everyone because of Covid. They threw out Trump.

Let's not talk about that. Let's go back to #2. 🍳🤦‍♂️🤣

Totally had my timeline confused and got excited when I remembered it was May...just didn't remember it was May 2022. My bad. I own it and move on (back to that really good point I have about #2 🤣)

Like I've said...I agree with part of it. But I think it's a mistake if you think it's about trying to move Trump's numbers. She isn't trying to move the immovable. I think the campaign is trying to motivate...both her base and her reliable demographics (particularly young voters) who don't tend to actually cast ballots reliably. I think it's a mistake to do only that, but there's value in that, too.

I’m assuming that virtually everybody who is motivated by Trump - for or against - is already a surefire voter. And I think that’s a safe assumption.

The people she needs to get aren’t. If they were, they would already be in the above group.

And I think you’re saying she should do both. But that’s the point of those comments above from Tapper and Bash. She’s given a great opportunity and platform to make the case and win their support - and she uses it to mostly just keep hammering on Trump…as though if she keeps doing that, eventually she’ll convince them to vote for her just to keep him out of office.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I think we would get along if all we did was eat pie.

Eating pie is like getting oral sex. Some are better than others but it’s all good, regardless.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Keep reaching the dumb ass. His own republican officials said it was the safest election ever. But hey show us the proof that 60 plus judges called bs. You guys just can’t accept losing. I love it. Same old tired cheating obsession.

Who made the call to stop vote counting in the middle of the night?

It's a simple question genius...

 

[Spartans9312]

CBS Evening news opened with that nonsense story last night. When Trump calls them the enemy of the people, he is correct.

Typical…Information laundering

 

[Spartans9312]

What a fraud. So her closing argument is Trump is Hitler.

View embedded media

That’s the norm…Democrats have a history of calling Republican presidential nominees “Hitler”.

Madonna Likens McCain to Hitler At First “Sticky” Tour Stop

It’s pretty obvious who Madonna will vote for in this coming election. At her Sticky & Sweet tour opening show in Wales, during the “Get Stupid” portion of Hard Candy‘s “Give It 2 Me,” Madonna used the video screens to lump together footage of Republican presidential candidate John McCain with...

www.rollingstone.com

 

[Spartans9312]

Kamala is extremely dangerous and a threat to our democracy.

View embedded media

Likening the Pub nominee to Hitler is not unique to Trump.

We know Democrats were calling Bush “Hitler”….

 

[IUCrazy2]

Likening the Pub nominee to Hitler is not unique to Trump.

We know Democrats were calling Bush “Hitler”….

Yeah that lands flat for me. Every candidate that has run on the GOP side has been Hitler. When it looked like DeSantis might have been an option early on, they were already laying the groundwork to make that claim about him too.

 

[Spartans9312]

Yeah that lands flat for me. Every candidate that has run on the GOP side has been Hitler. When it looked like DeSantis might have been an option early on, they were already laying the groundwork to make that claim about him too.

Daddy Bush was “Hitler”, Reagan “Hitler”, and of course Goldwater was “Hitler”. They do this 4 years from now whoever the GOP nominee will be. They will be “Hitler” too and they will wax poetic that they are not a moderate like Trump was.


“The reaction shot — when the cameras returned to Cronkite — showed the ‘most trusted man in America’ gravely shaking his head. When Goldwater accepted the Republican nomination, Democratic California Gov. Pat Brown said, ‘The stench of fascism is in the air.’”

“About Ronald Reagan, Steven F. Hayward, author of ‘The Age Of Reagan’ wrote: ‘Liberals hated Reagan in the 1980s. Pure and simple. They used language that would make the most fervid anti-Obama rhetoric of the Tea Party seem like, well, a tea party. Democratic Rep. William Clay of Missouri charged that Reagan was ‘trying to replace the Bill of Rights with fascist precepts lifted verbatim from Mein Kampf’”

 

[Marvin the Martian]

So this is all on the generals, Kelly, Mattis, McMaster, and McRaven, were all just rent-seeking SOBs. I assume Dan Coats and Mike Pence too.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Likening the Pub nominee to Hitler is not unique to Trump.

We know Democrats were calling Bush “Hitler”….

“If everybody’s Hitler, then nobody is.”

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

So this is all on the generals, Kelly, Mattis, McMaster, and McRaven, were all just rent-seeking SOBs. I assume Dan Coats and Mike Pence too.

While I think they’re certainly right in their judgment of Trump as a leader, I can’t say that I buy the claim that he said he wanted generals like Hitler’s.

It just doesn’t sound like something he’d say. I don’t think Trump has the kind of filter most of us have that leads to him talking differently in private than he does in public.

When Durbin said Trump asked why we had to take in migrants from “shithole countries”, I believed it entirely. Because I can easily imagine him saying that publicly.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

So this is all on the generals, Kelly, Mattis, McMaster, and McRaven, were all just rent-seeking SOBs. I assume Dan Coats and Mike Pence too.

You have it right.
Amazing.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

While I think they’re certainly right in their judgment of Trump as a leader, I can’t say that I buy the claim that he said he wanted generals like Hitler’s.

It just doesn’t sound like something he’d say. I don’t think Trump has the kind of filter most of us have that leads to him talking differently in private than he does in public.

When Durbin said Trump asked why we had to take in migrants from “shithole countries”, I believed it entirely. Because I can easily imagine him saying that publicly.

I am not sure I trust that specific comment, nor am I sure what it means. I would assume it means total loyalty to the leader over the state. Of course that only covers some of the German generals, there were many who in one way or another were not on Team Hitler (especially early and late).

I do think Trump wants to be surrounded by sycophants. Yesterday I asked Brad if he thought Trump would hire Dimon, and this is what I was getting at. I don't think Dimon would be a "yes sir, may I have another" type. I think that means Trump wouldn't want him.

After the convention, Harris was dismissing Trump as the crazy uncle. Her problem has been dropping that and reverting to Nazi menace. People like our most MAGA enthusiasts love being associated with the power of Nazi menace. Crazy uncle, not so much. It may be too late to revert back.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Typical Trump word garble. He talks about using the national guard or military to put down large scale violent protests (not something I agree with but not outside the Overton window of opinion), then people question him on what he means by the “enemy within” and he goes off running down his usual list of political enemies (Pelosi, Schiff, etc).

This gets bastardized into Trump will activate the military to mow down Democrats in the streets.

Democrats don’t even believe what they’re saying. It’s theatre.

It's all theater.
Hired actors(starving), paid to get in front of a camera in every cringe Harris-waltz TV ad...

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I am not sure I trust that specific comment, nor am I sure what it means. I would assume it means total loyalty to the leader over the state. Of course that only covers some of the German generals, there were many who in one way or another were not on Team Hitler (especially early and late).

I do think Trump wants to be surrounded by sycophants. Yesterday I asked Brad if he thought Trump would hire Dimon, and this is what I was getting at. I don't think Dimon would be a "yes sir, may I have another" type. I think that means Trump wouldn't want him.

After the convention, Harris was dismissing Trump as the crazy uncle. Her problem has been dropping that and reverting to Nazi menace. People like our most MAGA enthusiasts love being associated with the power of Nazi menace. Crazy uncle, not so much. It may be too late to revert back.

Hitler wanted generals who would lead and fight, not political figures looking to enhance their prospects of wealth and power.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Hitler wanted generals who would lead and fight, not political figures looking to enhance their prospects of wealth and power.

I know you have fascist leanings and admire Hitler and Putin, but that’s an uninformed take. Trump wants Generals that would be loyal to him over the constitution. It’s obvious because that’s what he expects from all his subordinates. This is the oath all the German military had to make starting in 1935:

“I swear by God this holy oath, that I will render to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and People, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, unconditional obedience, and that I am ready, as a brave soldier, to risk my life at any time for this oath”

Trump wants that kind of loyalty.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I know you have fascist leanings and admire Hitler and Putin, but that’s an uninformed take. Trump wants Generals that would be loyal to him over the constitution. It’s obvious because that’s what he expects from all his subordinates. This is the oath all the German military had to make starting in 1935:

“I swear by God this holy oath, that I will render to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and People, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, unconditional obedience, and that I am ready, as a brave soldier, to risk my life at any time for this oath”

Trump wants that kind of loyalty.

I'm not going to agree he wants that loyalty entirely, but I will say no way it can be outright dismissed.

Hitler didn't want any independent thought. Two of his very best generals were Guderian and Manstein. He would sack both because they had a streak of independence.

Hitler created OKW to oversee OKH. He placed his most loyal generals, like Jodl and Keitel, in OKW. He had OKW and OKH to compete against each other for favor. OKH had more of the traditional generals, so usually OKW was the winner in power struggles as they were more the "how high" type. Hence why those generals.

It had nothing to do with fighting ability or either Manstein or Guderian would have ruled all. Hitler's favorite at the end of the war was Schorner. Schorner was a fanatical Nazi, not an overall bad general but to give an idea, he was one that helped weaken Berlin's defenses in 1945 as clearly the Soviets intended Prague as their main goal and not Berlin. It doesn't take a real genius to see that wasn't close to true. However, Schorner was completely loyal and was named by Hitler as his successor as Commander-in-Chief. Manstein may have been the greatest general of the 20th century, and certainly in the top couple, but Hitler didn't want him around even when the situation was desperate.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I know you have fascist leanings and admire Hitler and Putin, but that’s an uninformed take. Trump wants Generals that would be loyal to him over the constitution. It’s obvious because that’s what he expects from all his subordinates. This is the oath all the German military had to make starting in 1935:

“I swear by God this holy oath, that I will render to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and People, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, unconditional obedience, and that I am ready, as a brave soldier, to risk my life at any time for this oath”

Trump wants that kind of loyalty.

Ah, Brian Kilmeade doesn't think Trump realized German generals were Nazis.

 

[bailey777]

John F. Kelly:

• United States Marine Corps, retired Four-Star General
• Gold Star Father
• former Chief of Staff to President Trump

Much has been attributed to Kelly over the past few years about comments he reportedly heard Trump make. Kelly never denied the reports but never confirmed them - - until now. Trump's recent declarations that, in a second term, he will use the military against American citizens was the last straw for Kelly. "Even to say [that] for political purposes to get elected . . . is a very, very bad thing, let alone actually doing it," said Kelly.

Is American Exceptionalism dead? We'll soon find out.

Trump Fits The ‘Definition Of Fascist’ And Said ‘Hitler Did Some Good Things,’ John Kelly Says

Kelly said Trump was surprised that the uniformed and retired generals he brought on board to work in his administration were loyal to the Constitution instead of him.

www.forbes.com

Yawn. Same old tired stuff. Dems are losing so it's smear

John Kelly? Bwahahahaha.

He's a giant fraud. Full blown TDS. His nonsense has been refuted repeatedly. Tell me this isn't all you've got.

time.

 

[snarlcakes]

Eating pie is like getting oral sex. Some are better than others but it’s all good, regardless.

Oral sex with too much teeth = Fruit Pies

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Rhubarb is excellent, both in custard form, and in more traditional form. It also makes a great pudding.

Rhubarb is a weed. Throw enough sugar on crabgrass and you could probably make a pie out of that too.

 

[snarlcakes]

So this is all on the generals, Kelly, Mattis, McMaster, and McRaven, were all just rent-seeking SOBs. I assume Dan Coats and Mike Pence too.

Kelly seems to be one for sure. Not sure on the other generals and don't give a shit to research it. The real problem is the military needs to cut by several 100 billion dollars and a lot of this pissing and moaning goes away.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Kelly seems to be one for sure. Not sure on the other generals and don't give a shit to research it. The real problem is the military needs to cut by several 100 billion dollars and a lot of this pissing and moaning goes away.

Seems we have some generals more interested in playing political snakes and ladders and ingratiating themselves with the upper crust of the political class.

Look at the nauseatingly obsequious Mark Milley for example.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Hitler (and Trump) would be overwhelmed by the sheer number of qualified candidates for general here on the WC.

 

[snarlcakes]

Seems we have some generals more interested in playing political snakes and ladders and ingratiating themselves with the upper crust of the political class.

Look at the nauseatingly obsequious Mark Milley for example.

The military is too big. Money corrupts and the military no different. It's actually worse because neither party reigns it in. I'm glad Trump flushed out the Dick Cheney types and hope his ilk stays in the Democratic Party. Hopefully, it allows conservatives to get serious about balancing the budget, which will always require large cuts to the military.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The more I see the MAGA replies about our generals, I get why Ike didn't want the nativists to win in 52.

Seems we have some generals more interested in playing political snakes and ladders and ingratiating themselves with the upper crust of the political class.

Look at the nauseatingly obsequious Mark Milley for example.

It all reminds me of the Birchers going after Ike. Welch accused Ike of being a communist. But Ike returned the Republican Party to sanity. Where is today's Ike?

When the Republican Party Was Sane

President Eisenhower inherited a GOP that looked much like today’s—but he tamed the extremists and led as a moderate conservative.

newrepublic.com

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

The more I see the MAGA replies about our generals, I get why Ike didn't want the nativists to win in 52.


It all reminds me of the Birchers going after Ike. Welch accused Ike of being a communist. But Ike returned the Republican Party to sanity. Where is today's Ike?

When the Republican Party Was Sane

President Eisenhower inherited a GOP that looked much like today’s—but he tamed the extremists and led as a moderate conservative.

newrepublic.com

I don’t know about all that but Mark Milley is a giant turd. John Kelly? Jury is out.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

The more I see the MAGA replies about our generals, I get why Ike didn't want the nativists to win in 52.


It all reminds me of the Birchers going after Ike. Welch accused Ike of being a communist. But Ike returned the Republican Party to sanity. Where is today's Ike?

When the Republican Party Was Sane

President Eisenhower inherited a GOP that looked much like today’s—but he tamed the extremists and led as a moderate conservative.

newrepublic.com

Aloha.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Aloha.

We can get Bing to be Veep. I like it, Mas' head would explode.

 

[hoosboot]

Likening the Pub nominee to Hitler is not unique to Trump.

We know Democrats were calling Bush “Hitler”….

Yeah...and every Dem nominee is called a communist. Depth is not what politics does well.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Yeah...and every Dem nominee is called a communist. Depth is not what politics does well.

You forgot “evil socialist” just in the last couple days.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Trump wants the military to make this oath now:

“I swear by God this holy oath, that I will render to Donald J Trump, Leader of the United States and People, Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, unconditional obedience, and that I am ready, as a military member, to risk my life at any time for this oath”

Just kidding, but I think it would appeal to him.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

The more I see the MAGA replies about our generals, I get why Ike didn't want the nativists to win in 52.


It all reminds me of the Birchers going after Ike. Welch accused Ike of being a communist. But Ike returned the Republican Party to sanity. Where is today's Ike?

When the Republican Party Was Sane

President Eisenhower inherited a GOP that looked much like today’s—but he tamed the extremists and led as a moderate conservative.

newrepublic.com

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face.

The GOP is where it is -- more than any other single reason -- because the R politicians and the R voters have been on different planets when it comes to immigration. It's not the only issue where there's discord, but it's the most visceral one. And it's no coincidence that it's the primary issue which Trump pounded on his way to winning the Republican Party's nomination.

He saw this disconnect, and he capitalized on it in a big way. And I don't think most governing-class Republicans were just aloof to the problem. Rather, I think they didn't think anything would come of it. I think their attitude was "What are these dolts going to do, vote for Democrats?"

So the pols would talk about it during campaigns. But, when push came to shove, they did nothing.

I don't know if the serious people can gain back control of the GOP. But I do know that they never will until and unless they correct this problem. And the whole situation with Sen. Lankford and that border bill suggests to me that they aren't yet there.

 

[snarlcakes]

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face.

The GOP is where it is -- more than any other single reason -- because the R politicians and the R voters have been on different planets when it comes to immigration. It's not the only issue where there's discord, but it's the most visceral one. And it's no coincidence that it's the primary issue which Trump pounded on his way to winning the Republican Party's nomination.

He saw this disconnect, and he capitalized on it in a big way. And I don't think most governing-class Republicans were just aloof to the problem. Rather, I think they didn't think anything would come of it. I think their attitude was "What are these dolts going to do, vote for Democrats?"

So the pols would talk about it during campaigns. But, when push came to shove, they did nothing.

I don't know if the serious people can gain back control of the GOP. But I do know that they never will until and unless they correct this problem. And the whole situation with Sen. Lankford and that border bill suggests to me that they aren't yet there.

It’s not the main issue. The size of government and broken money are the root causes of the issue. Immigration is the governments way of trying to put hand aids on it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

It’s not the main issue. The size of government and broken money are the root causes of the issue. Immigration is the governments way of trying to put hand aids on it.

Those would be the main issues for me, too. But they are not the main reason so many Republican voters (and others...the Trump electorate looks significantly different than the Mitt Romney electorate) bolted for Trump.

One of Trump's central pledges in 2016 was not to touch entitlements. He didn't campaign on restraining the size and cost of government, all -- much less govern that way. He was a fiscal disaster -- as has been his successor.

I will give him credit for this, though -- he was better than any other recent president on attacking the massive rat's nest that is our regulatory state. However, I don't think this was a front-and-center campaign issue for him. Immigration and the border were. Second place was probably trade protectionism.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face.

The GOP is where it is -- more than any other single reason -- because the R politicians and the R voters have been on different planets when it comes to immigration. It's not the only issue where there's discord, but it's the most visceral one. And it's no coincidence that it's the primary issue which Trump pounded on his way to winning the Republican Party's nomination.

He saw this disconnect, and he capitalized on it in a big way. And I don't think most governing-class Republicans were just aloof to the problem. Rather, I think they didn't think anything would come of it. I think their attitude was "What are these dolts going to do, vote for Democrats?"

So the pols would talk about it during campaigns. But, when push came to shove, they did nothing.

I don't know if the serious people can gain back control of the GOP. But I do know that they never will until and unless they correct this problem. And the whole situation with Sen. Lankford and that border bill suggests to me that they aren't yet there.

Stopping illegal immigration is a point of agreement between conservative Republicans like me and MAGAs. It'll need to be made into one of the very top priorities of the revised GOP after the election.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I am not sure I trust that specific comment, nor am I sure what it means. I would assume it means total loyalty to the leader over the state. Of course that only covers some of the German generals, there were many who in one way or another were not on Team Hitler (especially early and late).

I do think Trump wants to be surrounded by sycophants. Yesterday I asked Brad if he thought Trump would hire Dimon, and this is what I was getting at. I don't think Dimon would be a "yes sir, may I have another" type. I think that means Trump wouldn't want him.

After the convention, Harris was dismissing Trump as the crazy uncle. Her problem has been dropping that and reverting to Nazi menace. People like our most MAGA enthusiasts love being associated with the power of Nazi menace. Crazy uncle, not so much. It may be too late to revert back.

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face.

The GOP is where it is -- more than any other single reason -- because the R politicians and the R voters have been on different planets when it comes to immigration. It's not the only issue where there's discord, but it's the most visceral one. And it's no coincidence that it's the primary issue which Trump pounded on his way to winning the Republican Party's nomination.

He saw this disconnect, and he capitalized on it in a big way. And I don't think most governing-class Republicans were just aloof to the problem. Rather, I think they didn't think anything would come of it. I think their attitude was "What are these dolts going to do, vote for Democrats?"

So the pols would talk about it during campaigns. But, when push came to shove, they did nothing.

I don't know if the serious people can gain back control of the GOP. But I do know that they never will until and unless they correct this problem. And the whole situation with Sen. Lankford and that border bill suggests to me that they aren't yet there.

i still largely disagree with this crazed. i'm convinced that the gop fractured over blue collar workers that were independnets or largely dems. trump struck a nerve with those people. they aren't hte warmongering crowd and don't like trickle down. they were the working folks that the dems supplanted with lbgqtpy and academic libs

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Stopping illegal immigration is a point of agreement between conservative Republicans like me and MAGAs. It'll need to be made into one of the very top priorities of the revised GOP after the election.

Are you assuming Trump's going to lose? Because I'm not so sure I'd assume that. While I'd still say the election is in coin flip territory, where things are standing to day I think I'd probably rather be him than her.

Anyway....I don't think you are getting what I was saying. The entire situation with Lankford should indicate that the OG GOP really hasn't moved a whole lot on the issue. They'll never say so. But actions speak louder than words. And I think Lankford's position was generally representative of where the party establishment as a whole is.

The bill had "emergency measures" which essentially amounted to shutting down the border. In other words, they can do it when and if they decide they want to. But these measures were only put in motion when they reach a threshold of 5K encounters per day in a moving 7-day average.

Is there any reason you can think of why that number should be any higher than zero?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

So this is all on the generals, Kelly, Mattis, McMaster, and McRaven, were all just rent-seeking SOBs. I assume Dan Coats and Mike Pence too.

Pretty close. > 80% of retired four stars work as employees, directors, consultants, or lobbyists for the defense industry. I don’t think they are motivated by supporting and defending the Constitution. The money is significant and it all comes from Uncle Sam. Are you okay with this?

If you are going to discuss Ike, discuss all of him.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence-economic, political, even spiritual-is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.​

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.​