I Wonder
- Thread starter mohoosier
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I heard they’re moving to another breed - - German wire-haired pointers - - and Kristi Noem will be leading the project.
Any human being, regardless of the rationalizations, able to dispassionately be a part of this activity, would be equally dispassionate if the activities included human torture and abuse.
Covid 19 demonstrated my point.
Again, what about Trump ending this torture of the Beagles?
My dog that we put down last year got me through some hard times. I can't imagine putting any dog through that.
Cats, now **** them. They're the devils animal.
That’s a great thing. My first dog was a beagle. Im vehemently opposed to inhumane treatment of animals.
As always, it seems, some fact-checking is in order. It turns out that the brutal Beagle sand fly experiments were NOT funded or approved by the NIH. They also were not conducted in NIH labs or on US soil. They were done in Tunisia. It would not have been approved in the USA or survived NIH review. A paper describing the experiments after the study was concluded originally cited an NIH grant as a funding source, but the statement was false and the paper was quickly revised to remove the bogus claim.
All that being said, I certainly favor disallowing animal drug experiments on dogs. In 35 years of pharma research I have never been involved in a project that used dog experiments. Sometimes a mammalian model is used, since rodents are of course more distant from humans. But that has become less common, as strains of transgenic mice have been developed that have more human attributes, so you don't have to use dogs, pigs, or rhesus monkeys, as was sometimes done in the past.
I have also never heard of any project using dogs in any disease model experiment. If used at all, they would be used in pharmacokinetics experiments. Basically, give a dog a pill and then take blood draws every 6 hours to find out how long the drug lasts in its system (the drug "half life"). These are nonlethal experiments. But again, transgenic mice experiments have largely replaced mammalian experiments, even for this.
All that being said, I certainly favor disallowing animal drug experiments on dogs. In 35 years of pharma research I have never been involved in a project that used dog experiments. Sometimes a mammalian model is used, since rodents are of course more distant from humans. But that has become less common, as strains of transgenic mice have been developed that have more human attributes, so you don't have to use dogs, pigs, or rhesus monkeys, as was sometimes done in the past.
I have also never heard of any project using dogs in any disease model experiment. If used at all, they would be used in pharmacokinetics experiments. Basically, give a dog a pill and then take blood draws every 6 hours to find out how long the drug lasts in its system (the drug "half life"). These are nonlethal experiments. But again, transgenic mice experiments have largely replaced mammalian experiments, even for this.
What Kinds of Dogs Are Used in Clinical and Experimental Research? - PMC
The objective of this study was to evaluate the signalment of dogs used in veterinary research in six different specialties. In total, 150 randomly chosen clinical studies (25 studies per specialty) published between 2007 and 2019 were evaluated for ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
vet but contains US human etc
Fauci is a creep
The lab they are taking about had nothing to do with Fauci. That's just Breitbart referencing the classics in order to get your attention.What Kinds of Dogs Are Used in Clinical and Experimental Research? - PMC
The objective of this study was to evaluate the signalment of dogs used in veterinary research in six different specialties. In total, 150 randomly chosen clinical studies (25 studies per specialty) published between 2007 and 2019 were evaluated for ...
vet but contains US human etc
Fauci is a creep
Anytime this administration offers up this sort of red meat out of nowhere, you should immediately look around and try to figure out what they are trying to slip past you while you're distracted.
I know that but the experimentation does go on and there’s not a word that comes out of fauci’s mouth I believe. From gof to funding shit. I’m sure he was grateful for a pardon. Microwave cats science dudes.
And it will continue to go on. Note Dr. Jay touted closing this one in-house lab, but strangely had nothing to say about funding experiments on dogs at universities, where most of it happens.
In case you are wondering, animal research for human health at IU uses mice, rats, hamsters, voles, rabbits, zebrafish, frogs, and birds.
>95% of universities use only mice and rats.
>95% of universities use only mice and rats.
Is there any good reason to think that experimenting on mice and rats is morally more acceptable than doing so on dogs?In case you are wondering, animal research for human health at IU uses mice, rats, hamsters, voles, rabbits, zebrafish, frogs, and birds.
>95% of universities use only mice and rats.
Put another way, does our current love affair with dogs as family members make those experiments less morally acceptable than experiments on mice, rats, hamsters, voles, rabbits, zebrafish, frogs, and birds?
Good question.
It's not too big a leap to also ask why it's morally acceptable to eat a pig or cow when it's considered wrong to eat a dog.
Pain. Torture. Who feels it. Apparently rats and mice do. Allegedly they can feel empathy. Sadness.
I've heard that about rats and mice. Also dogs are supposed to as smart or smarter than some breads of dogs. And cows cry for their calves when they're separated from them.
Cows probably have it the worst, relatively speaking. Artificially inseminated with a hand up their ass, constantly kept pregnant so they'll keep producing milk, confined for most their lives in dirty spaces where they can barely move and their calves stripped from them almost immediately after birth.
Minion and I hung out with cows yesterday. They were calling for their handlers and stuff
I think he’s referencing how human beings were essentially used as lab rats for an experimental vaccine during covid.
Trump’s vaccine. One of his great achievements. Thanks, President Trump!
Experimental coronavirus vaccine highly effective
Clinical trial results showed that the vaccine developed by NIH and Moderna is 94.1% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID-19.
Maybe not. But.... Is it morally acceptable to put experimental drugs into humans without ever administering them to a rodent? We can predict lots of stuff with cell-based experiments, but some outcomes are totally unpredictable.
An example... One of my early projects was geared toward blood pressure lowering. The test drugs appeared potent in all biochemistry experiments. And safe / non-toxic. They went into a study with a hypertensive strain of mice and looked good. For a while. Their blood pressure went down for a few days. But it started to creep back up. And up. Then back up to baseline. Then when you took them off the drug their BP spiked higher than where it was to start. Dangerously high.
Turns out the body (people or rodents) had a feedback mechanism to compensate for the inhibition of the enzyme that the drugs targeted, blood pressure being tightly regulated by many genes. This compensating mechanism kicked in, then you got massive rebound hypertension when the treatment was stopped. The project was shelved and of course it was never used in humans. If it had been, then human deaths would maybe have resulted.
A lot of the animal testing emerged out of the thalidomide babies in Europe in the 50s and early 60s which led to the FDA. The thalidomide birth defects weren't anticipated in any test tube experiment, but would have been seen if they had tried administering it to thalidomide-treated pregnant mice. Do you feel bad for the mutated mouse pups? Yeah. Would I feel worse not catching it and seeing mutated human babies? Yeah.
So there is a morality balancing act rather than morality absolutes.
We do care much more about the cute animals that are more often pets, too.
Well did you not expect them to chase the ball after you threw it? I mena, C'mon man.
The Left "That is racist and an existential threat to Democracy that is causing the Seas to rise and end civilization as we know it". End multiple quotes.
Cats are apex predators. A single cat can destroy a small ecosystem. My outside cat took on a neighbors pit bull that wandered in our yard. Whipped it's ass.
I like dogs too. Lost both ours at 15 years in 2023.
False ??? Where do you think lawyers come from?
We had a frenchie that made it almost 18 years that we had to be put down last year. He was my best friend and got me through a lot of shit. It was super hard when we had to do it, but he couldn't go on anymore like he was.
About 2 weeks later, we had a all black cat start coming around and just start hanging out on our porch. Our frenchie was all black. We buried him near the end of a tree line overlooking our field (we live in the country). We would find this damn cat lying on his grave. It was getting to be when it was getting cold, so my wife decided for us that the cat was now ours. I absolutely hate cats.
This damn thing will come up to you, want to be petted and then start biting you. She follows around the wife like a dog when home, everyone else she treats like they're enemy #1.
We have enough cats around. People drop them off all the time. At least we don't need a sitter when we leave for a quick vacation like we do a dog.
The herd instinct is strong in humans.
