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Grooming Behavior
- Thread starter TMFT
- Start date
So you believe this proves a pattern or is a terrible happening? We can't argue terrible happenings because to my earlier point, terrible happenings occur all the time.
Here are multiple stories of teenage girls dying because of getting braces.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...l-two-strokes-metal-braces-entered-heart.html
https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/13/girl...al-operation-have-braces-fitted-13124319/amp/
Are these underlying consistent patterns? Do we need to ban children from getting braces until they are adults? They obviously can cause death and it's not normal. Anyone with braces or who thinks they need braces are mentally ill people that need some tough love to be happy with what God gave them.....or something.
Secondly as I've stated many times, surgery from GAC is rare. The majority of care is counseling.
If you're argument is just about the surgical solutions....I think we could possibly find some ground until there's even more overwhelming proof.
But that's not what's happening. No this is another Rufo led propaganda war to eliminate it altogether or to make it as hard as possible to have an actual, adult conversation about the GAC treatment process.
Since the right has effectively demonized the term 'gender affirming care' via propaganda to mean that it's an evil, pedophilic operation that forces kids against their will to sexually mutilate them and gut them like a thanksgiving turkey.....it's led to reactive legislation fueled by mob panic attacks.
Which is strategic and the one thing the right does well.
Most signs point to the endgame desire to eliminate GAC altogether for everyone. The right is just using 'the children' as the entry point.....like Rufo did with CRT.
I still think if you, as a father of multiple children, ever come to find that one of your kids are struggling with this that you'd want, as a parent, to have the option to explore a menu of programs that are out there and seems to have helped others.
That's the advantage of having one of the best medical fields on the planet.
Im glad my parents did me since I don't remember anything cuz holy f I've heard stories of adult males getting it done.
Yowzires!!
And Brad I thought I was done with this thread....why did you have to bring me back in!!!!!! Lol
OMG are you really serious? Comparing braces to sex change? Strategic, the only thing the left does well
The braces thing I thought was obvious parody.
The point is terrible, awful and unfortunate things happen all the time....they don't make for a pattern.
Another one:
White dudes have made up a ton of mass shootings = they are all isolated, lone wolves with mental issues.
A tran does a mass shooting = all trans are evil killers.
Ah yes, the tried and true "propaganda war". Cutting someone's ass apart to turn it into a vagina is just typical medical care. Why do psychological services for a child when we can **** up their natural development and then have Dr. Frankenstein turn them into the person nature did not intend them to be.
Some dumb ass adult wants to do that, whatever. However, trans people usually have a whole host of mental problems they are dealing with. I don't think we should be pushing them from a young age to buy into their mental illness, we should be treating them. If all that fails and they still want to butcher themselves as adults, have at it.
Oh and on the, "I told you so" front, Minnesota is amending a law around discrimination based on sexual and gender identity. "Yay equal rights." That is how the bill is being sold. Here is the link to the proposed changes.
Want to draw attention to this piece:
Minnesota Statutes 2022, section 363A.03, subdivision 44, is amended to read:
"Sexual orientation" means having or being perceived as
having an emotional, physical, or sexual attachment to another person without regard to the
sex of that person or having or being perceived as having an orientation for such attachment,
or having or being perceived as having a self-image or identity not traditionally associated
with one's biological maleness or femaleness. "Sexual orientation" does not include a physical
or sexual attachment to children by an adult.
Would anyone care to give any rational reason they would have struck out the portion they did in their amendment?
Want to draw attention to this piece:
Sec. 5.
Minnesota Statutes 2022, section 363A.03, subdivision 44, is amended to read:
Subd. 44.
Sexual orientation.
"Sexual orientation" means having or being perceived as
having an emotional, physical, or sexual attachment to another person without regard to the
sex of that person or having or being perceived as having an orientation for such attachment,
with one's biological maleness or femaleness. "Sexual orientation" does not include a physical
or sexual attachment to children by an adult.
Would anyone care to give any rational reason they would have struck out the portion they did in their amendment?
You all talk about this like a 10 year old tells their pediatrician they want a sex change at their well visit and it's all done before the kid makes it back to their parents in the lobby. It's a MUCH more involved process than that. If I were a betting man, I'd say that an incredibly small number of minors actually go through gender reassignment surgery annually.
Because it's already illegal to molest children and it's never been argued by anyone remotely serious that pedophilia is a "sexual orientation?" making the whole thing kind of superfluous?
You guys are naive. Blindly naive. Criminally naive. Dangerously naive.
You all like to play stupid straw man games to avoid the point. Like above.
Their only reason that pedophilia is not called an “orientation” is because of the stigma it carries. But it has all the earmarks. Not for everyone but for a significant number. Like homosexual sex, pedophilia is also situational.
Trans kids is something that shouldn’t be a thing.
You guys are paranoid. Blindly paranoid. Criminally paranoid. Dangerously paranoid.
Can you accept that there could be , if only a VERY SMALL number, of situations where it would be in a child's best interest to undergo a transition including hormone therapy and/or surgery? Like ever?
If so, wouldn't it make sense to put a scheme in place that puts it in the hands of kids/parents/doctors/psychologists rather than hard & fast laws? Again, unless there's an epidemic of penis guillotining going on, I think this is just the latest from your "Outrage of the Month Club" subscription.
That’s crazy. According to the Minnesota moonbats, I have a sexual orientation to my best friends, kids, and grandkids, because I have ann emotional connection.
Surgery? In cases where someone is actually born with both there would be a possibility.
Outside of that, no. I don't think you mess with a child's natural development and I don't think you surgically remove or change perfectly healthy body parts on a child (and before Tommy comes in with some argument about removing an appendix, I want to highlight the word HEALTHY again).
I don't support unnecessary cosmetic surgery on minors.
I know I am part of the "outrage of the month club" but TMFT's explanation was extremely lacking for me. At some point in time it was felt that the distinction needed to be made. Now someone is saying that distinction does not need to be made. That little change was snuck in there on the tail of the whole "gender" conversation. And if you go and look up articles discussing the amendment, they all talk about expanding rights based around gender. That piece that was removed is something we just naturally know in TMFT's opinion. Well 5 years ago we all naturally knew how to define a woman. If I had said that accepting transgender people meant we would start calling women "birthing people" and all sorts of other biological function reductive terms instead of women, people like TMFT would have said I was part of the outrage brigade.
So here we are, I say that when the transgender movement is done that there will be a movement to understand and mainstream MAPS. You can see the groundwork for that already being laid in that Minnesota bill. You see the UN releasing statements about changing laws on when children can make sexual decisions. "You're just a crazy conspiracy theorist." I hope I am. Unfortunately the way things have been going the difference between conspiracy and satire on one hand and reality on the other has been measured in months.
Bottom line, Minnesota is amending to remove the exclusion of MAPS from the definition of accepted sexual identities. It is there in black and white. Somebody offer an explanation for that change that isn't as flimsy as "Well everyone knows....."
I dislike gov more than anyone but the reality is that all it takes is one goofy parent and one goofy doctor ( which accounts for at least a third of docs) to wreck a kid for life. Society needs to protect them
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I think there is broad agreement here about a few things:
1. Therapy is great and should be required for kids expressing trans or gender dysphoria
2. Any sex reassignment surgeries (including mastectomies, etc.) shoud not occur until a later age.
The disagreements appear to be about:
1. Use of hormones in those under 18
2. The exact age that surgeries should be allowed (for TMFT and Zeke, I'm assuming even they would say that a surgery for a 7 year old (not an intersex) should not be allowed.)
This idea that Republicans wanting smaller government means they want no government is a nonsense argument that will get thrown at you when liberals feel you are doing something they don't like.
I want the least amount of government necessary in order to have a more orderly society. In the past you used to be able to mostly trust that people don't want to hurt kids. And those that did hurt them were subject to the law under child abuse. Sometime in the last decade people lost their minds and were convinced that mental and physical abuse of people having what basically amounts to a constant psychotic break from reality is "loving". It isn't. People who think that blocking puberty and lopping off kids perfectly healthy body parts because they have a mental illness are crazy. So the government has a responsibility to go and set policy on that because it has become necessary.
George Washington said: “Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government,” and “Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people.”
Benjamin Franklin said: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.”
James Madison stated: “To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea.”
Thomas Jefferson wrote, “No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice … These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government.”
Samuel Adams said: “Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue.”
Patrick Henry stated that: “A vitiated [impure] state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom.”
John Adams stated: “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
Those old white guys were pretty smart.
Wow!!! @BradStevens cancel your mediation post above. Crazy wants a trial
I am basically done with trying to reason with unreasonable people. Kids get counseling. The rest of the stuff is so stupid we shouldn't even give it the respectability that debating it does.
Blocking a perfectly healthy child's normal development should be a crime. It is abuse.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Note that none of the those quotes calls for the government to be the tool by which virtue is inculcated or developed in people. Maybe they thought that it was so obvious govt would do it that they didn't need to say it, or maybe they assumed everyone would recognize that religion would be that tool, while also realizing the govt should stay out of religion.
I don't think you can legislate morality per se, but the point I was making is that the less virtuous or moral your society is, the less freedoms you can generally have. I know that is going to sound unpopular at first blush, but I think it holds true. Many freedoms are built on the trust that they will be used appropriately. When it is discovered that some tipping point percentage of the populace is incapable of responsibly using that freedom, that is generally where the government will step in to regulate.
The current authoritarian bent from the right and left is directly a response to the current societal breakdowns and that is applicable on topics from guns to abortion.
For you since you will actually read it. Those who support this are doing it on emotional manipulation based on crappy science. You treat psychological issues with psychological therapy.
Correction: Transgender Surgery Provides No Mental Health Benefit
The American Journal of Psychiatry has issued a major correction to a recent study. The Bränström study reanalysis demonstrated that neither “gender-affirming hormone treatment” nor “gender-affirming surgery” reduced the need of transgender-identifying people for mental health services. Fad medicine
www.thepublicdiscourse.com
A major correction has been issued by the American Journal of Psychiatry. The authors and editors of an October 2019 study, titled “Reduction in mental health treatment utilization among transgender individuals after gender-affirming surgeries: a total population study,” have retracted its primary conclusion. Letters to the editor by twelve authors, including ourselves, led to a reanalysis of the data and a corrected conclusion stating that in fact the data showed no improvement after surgical treatment. The following is the background to our published letter and a summary of points of the critical analysis of the study.
The question occurred to me whether waiting to "adulthood" as decided by a government legislature could be harmful to someone wanting a sex change. On this subject came across the following medical opinion which in part states,
There is no one-size-fits-all approach for the gender affirmation process. Perhaps you don’t want to undergo surgery right now because it’s too expensive or your family is not on board. Maybe you don’t see surgery as being a part of your transition process at all.
Gender affirmation is an individualized journey. Doing your own research and talking to experts will help you decide which options are best for you.
Dr. Fan Liang, the current medical director of Johns Hopkins Center for Transgender and Gender Expansive Health, stresses that while surgery can be a part of the transition process for many, it’s not for everyone. "Each patient needs to consider their personal goals and decide whether surgical options will improve their quality of life and lessen their gender dysphoria," she adds.
The problem with this approach, of course, is it assumes the person not having reached adulthood along with medical experts can make sound decisions regarding the transition. Furthermore the article didn't mention the decision making role of parents.
Also in reading the link it became obvious surgery (referred to as mutilation by those concerned about trans people making bad decisions) is not necessarily the option chosen by those making the transition.
Center for Transgender and Gender Expansive Health
I guess Johns Hopkins is "woke"
I guess Johns Hopkins is "woke"
Appeal to authority fallacy. Try harder.
Certainly could be woke af
Nerds with no common sense.
A few things about the link:
I didn’t notice any discussion about adolescents or children. (via a word search)
An opinion by the head of aGender Expansive Health director eliminates asking some important questions.
Im not a bit surprised surgery is on the rare side. That tells me that trans has a lot of ambiguity and those who call themselves trans have a level of uncertainty.
Neurologists can look at brain images and say with a fairly high degree of reliability if that is a male or female brain. I expected to see something about that in an article posted under the Hopkins name. That’s missing.
None of the questions I have about this in kids, and to a lesser extent adults, are addressed in this link.
My neuroradiologist friend believes otherwise. I’ll be seeing him in a week or so and ask him what the markers are.
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