Grooming Behavior
- Thread starter TMFT
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What about the ones that kill themselves because their mental illness wasn't addressed, and then their bodies were mutilated?
And they should be able to "eventually choose". That eventual choice is when they are adults.
Who makes this decision about when the choice should be made ?
Laws passed by state governors and legislative bodies, psychologists and medical doctors, parents, or just who ?
Alcohol, tobacco, driving, tattoos....how did we ever set the age limits on these things?
A good thread and link to studies that do not support your claims. You can also read through the comments and they point out a lot of the flaws in studies that promote puberty blockers and etc.
That’s absolutely ridiculous that you think every bit of gender confusion comes from an adult. I’m not sure where exactly you are getting your ideas and information about this but it’s very clear you don’t have a good understanding of what most trans families deal with. Why you think parents would try to convince their children they are trans when they know it will lead to a difficult life is beyond me.
Find the stats. You guys act like they kids don’t go through years of counseling before these decisions are made. You don’t trust the kids, their parents, their counselors, or their doctors. Suddenly you want the government to make these medical decisions? The party of small government. The party of parents get to run the schools? Right…
When the children are adults. That's when they can choose to mutilate their bodies. Not before. At least that's how it should be.
Interesting anecdote about the older set:
Have a gay friend who talks about the HUGE number of middle age guys that have straight lives & families and are super closeted to the world. But happen to enjoy having sex with other dudes.
Doesn't surprise me that their self report numbers are relatively low.
And you have families full of trans kids. How is that possible? This is insane.
Did you see the Disney exec who said she has one transgender and one pansexual child?
Every misfit kid is being told to channel their frustration into their subjective sexual identity cheered on by these freaks.
Bring on more layoffs. Kill Disney.
Munchausen's syndrome.
psychic epidemic
And quit your condescending attitude about my understanding,
The wonderful thing about the human mind is communicating and thinking skills so we all get to know what others think and go through. The bad thing about the adolescent human mind is the overwhelming power of suggestion and peer pressure. Studies are starting to show that gender confusion increases after educational units on identities and questions about “assigned” sex at birth.
Adolescents are not equipped to consent to permanent life altering body modifications.
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Yeah, I am.
I question whether you can even define what you mean by trans people.
I question your medical background.
I question your parenting background.
I question why you are unable to say this “trans” stuff is lunacy.
I lost the memo where small government meant no government. Could you share that with me?
Suicide facts and myths
The threat that children may commit suicide if parents do not support their social and medical transition is not born out by the facts.
www.transgendertrend.com
You are being emotionally manipulated into a stupid position.
Have read bisexuals are the largest number within the LGBQT community with Trans being the fewest.
I think that study was already posted and it compares trans with care vs cis.
You need to compare trans with care vs trans without care as it's the 'care' that's being debated and legislated out.
Isn't sex confusion typically once a kid starts going through puberty otherwise when they start getting sexually aroused?
That's typical in elementary school when they are surrounded by adults and peer pressure.
That goes to the base of it all, including the homosexual debate. Is it a choice or does a person know they are wired a way.
I've always believed in the overwhelming majority we know how we are wired (I was looking at my mom's glamour magazines as a little thing trying to see Cheryl Teigs nipple) and sure there's probably always been a 'show me yours and I'll show you mine' curiosity in kids, the actual sexualization is a wiring. I've always been wired to curves (I'm a tit guy).
I don't believe the majority would 'choose' a sexual path and identity that leads to shame, bullying and suicides.
That just doesn't make any logical sense.
So yeah, I truly believe gay kids and trans kids know and are battling tremendous social pressure to keep that ache hidden.
So denying a care program because of emotional blanket statements not backed with sufficient data is not only wrong but harmful, mean spirited and ignorant.
I can't imagine how pissed I'd be as a parent if I lost my child's life because republicans banned critical care due to fear from bad propaganda (like believing that care = lopping off parts or irreversible modifications. Again puberty blockers and hormonal therapy are reversible. Puberty blockers just buy a kid more time).
Seriously when the right says child mutilation right off the bat....that's a tell that we're debating right wing propaganda.
We're smarter than that.
That's the main problem, they aren't making it to adults.
Plus supposedly the process is much more difficult after you go through puberty, where is where puberty blockers supposedly come in....it buys a kid more time so they can get more counseling, which is the overwhelming majority of gender affirming care processes.
Since Republicans have blanketed gender affirming care as one overall tool that needs to be banned (while also encouraging neighborhood snitch programs and taking away care for all ages) you're basically telling families with trans kids to f#$k off and deal with it.
And you'll continue to hemorrhage politically.
From Duke University testifying before Texas legislature as they try to ban gender affirmative care in its entirety (including for adults so yeah, this isn't a 'think of the children!!!!!' debate....the anti movement in the right using 'the children' as a gateway to eliminate it altogether.Suicide facts and myths
The threat that children may commit suicide if parents do not support their social and medical transition is not born out by the facts.
You are being emotionally manipulated into a stupid position.
Anyway from Duke medical:
'Providers attest to seeing positive changes in their patients from gender-affirming care. “Most of them are happier, less depressed, and less anxious,” says Adkins at the Duke Child and Adolescent Gender Care Clinic. “Their schoolwork often improves, their safety often improves.”
“Saving their lives is a big deal.”
This conclusion from a Stanford study
'In this large national cross-sectional non-probability study, transgender people who accessed GAH during early adolescence, late adolescence, or adulthood had better mental health outcomes when compared to those who desired but were unable to access GAH. Given the substantial mental health disparities faced by transgender people, these results are of particular importance [26]'.
This is from the American Medical Association study:
'The results showed that youth who received gender-affirming medications—including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones—had a 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over those first 12 months, compared with youth who did not get such medications'
Duke medical, Stanford medical and the AMA and other medical communities are all saying similar.
I know the right is spinning out of control on some kind of 'medical practitioners are dumb and evil so we should just trust our gut and our friends and our politicians???
By the way did you know that Robert Malone made millions being an anti vax advocate? The misinformation business is good these days!!
As a self proclaimed Moran, I'm not the expert in the least. I just see incredibly positive data coming from the majority medical community and have done some Dr. Facebook research by listening to actual trans and families from sources that I trust.
As soon as anyone of you can get some interesting legit data that says GAC doesn't do anything or actually harms people....I'm with you.
I don't believe the right has it. All they have is fear and propaganda trying to elicit an emotional response (see Pragar U's take....it's so dumb it's hilarious).
I don’t advocate denying a care program. These kids likely need positive support, love, and counseling. What that looks like is a fair debate. I’ve deposed enough shrinks to know that some see therapy as providing empathy and support, and others see therapy along the lines of tough love and confronting disorders. I’ve linked the DSM V gender dysphoria criteria a few times and frankly that is total mush. The criteria for adults and kids are the same except kids require more of the mushy criteria to be present.
Some hormones are not reversible.
I think removing healthy and non-diseased body parts is mutilation. And don’t lecture us about propaganda when the left keeps saying “sex assigned at birth.“. That’s straight newspeak.
That is true. I have a gay buddy who made a fortune representing them. They’d get busted at the park. Pay anything to make it go away
Yeah, the first paragraph is largely spot on. This also applies to religion, politics, favorite sports teams and the Easter Bunny.
I have no problem with adults choosing a sex change, although I also believe they are usually making a mistake. So iagree with your second paragraph when kids become adults.
You're entitled to your beliefs. However your beliefs aren't facts. You talk about your belief gay kids, trans kids know etc. Then you go on a rant acting like that belief of yours is somehow a stone cold fact for everyone. It's not.
I truly don't believe much of what you said in this rant is correct. Maybe even zero %.
The suicide rate among the trans community is astronomical.
Just because something becomes more difficult after a certain age doesn't justify not using common sense. Kids should not be allowed to make decisions that, in many cases, will permanently change their bodies. Only an adult should have the ability to make the decision to mutilate themselves. I know you don't like that word, but I don't care, that's what it is. Also, isn't it possible that it becomes harder to transition after a certain age because those changes should never be made.
There shouldn't be trans kids, only trans adults.
A bad outcome politically should not be a concern when there is pure evil towards children taking place.
The only facts I'm really debating about is the benefits of GAC based on early studies.
The other stuff is just background on my beliefs and why I like faith tend to oppose when someone tries to tell someone how they should feel, much less try to codify it.
This discussion can absolutely go there but then we're talking about my personal beliefs vs yours and we're both entitled to them.
As far as GAC, right now the majority of signs point to by the medical field (and the actual patients and the actual parents having to try to figure this shit out) is that it's has strong benefits, so nuking it out of existence because ???? doesn't add up from an evidential argument.
At least it doesn't to me.
So you want to take away counseling and take away a very long, measured process involving parents, doctors and therapists because, why again?
What do you believe is a better solution? A program that a community is asking for and has been created by the medical field or what....let the politicians and lawmakers decide?
Cause that's what seems to be going on.
That's not very 'personal responsibility' and 'parental rights' on something that you have very little data to back up your claims.
Tommy displays a really disgusting tactic with the “they’re not making it to adulthood” crap.
Someone that finds gender affirming care, body part mutilation and hormone therapy for minors repulsive and thinks it should be illegal doesn’t have to listen to threats of a hypothetical gun being held to the head a hypothetical trans kid. I am not responsible for Trans suicides.
In any other scenario we’d recognize suicidal ideation on this scale that is cropping up for the first time in history NOW as a manifestation of the mental illness that it is. In the case of trans population, progressives use it as a proverbial gun to the head to push their cultural Marxist bullshit.
Trans teen died from vaginoplasty complications during landmark Dutch study used to justify child sex changes
Major complications began within just 24 hours of the surgery.
thepostmillennial.com
Super beneficial.
Now we're searching for random anecdotal story's around the world?Trans teen died from vaginoplasty complications during landmark Dutch study used to justify child sex changes
Major complications began within just 24 hours of the surgery.
Super beneficial.
Wow if that's the criteria then shut down the medical community and every medical treatment available because there are random anecdotal instances for everything.
Bad hair jobs to bad cancer treatment.
Hell my mother lost her life from getting an infection during cancer treatment so that's proof that cancer treatments are pure evil and don't work right?
Please let me know when you get something substantial. Thanks
You think they are saving lives. I see child abuse all too often leading to loss of lives. There's no bridging that gap.
Did I hear you correctly, suicide among trans is a recent thing?
No more mastectomies or breast reduction surgeries as that's not natural.
No more mutilating newborn boy's penises by circumcision.
The bigger picture is I believe that the patient, parent, doctors and mental health practitioners know a hell of a lot more than the two of us or than dipshit politicians.
If the time comes where you find a girl that wants to have kids with you and they go through this misfitted, freakish behavior that I think you, as a parent, should have the option to get this care no matter what some random douchebag that has no involvement thinks.
Invincible ignorance. This wasn't some random anecdotal story.
A 2016 medical article documenting the tragic death of one of the participants in the linchpin Dutch study upon which the entire child sex change experiment is based indicates that puberty suppression was to blame for the young person’s death.
This wasn't some random person, it was one of the people in the initial study. There isn't any amount of evidence that will convince you because your mind is made up that you have the humane position. This kid died because his doctors followed EXACTLY the treatment plan you are espousing. He got puberty blockers at a young age. So he did not go through puberty. He decided to get a fake vagina made. Uh oh, little penis because no puberty. So they cut out his intestines to make him one and he got an E. Coli infection and died.
If you can't see how that is different from the scenario you posted then you aren't capable of a rational debate on the topic.
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