Did someone mentioned that Trump voters are regretting to vote for him?

[meridian]

I just voted another Newsmax survey. The result is astounding!

Overall, who would you prefer as President today? Trump: 77%, Obama: 22%
Who do you think is better at handling the economy? Trump: 77%, Obama: 21%
Who do you think is better at handling foreign policy? Trump: 77%, Obama: 22%

No, they have not changed and they never will !!!

 

[sglowrider]

I just voted another Newsmax survey. The result is astounding!

Overall, who would you prefer as President today? Trump: 77%, Obama: 22%
Who do you think is better at handling the economy? Trump: 77%, Obama: 21%
Who do you think is better at handling foreign policy? Trump: 77%, Obama: 22%

No, they have not changed and they never will !!!

Hope is such a powerful drug that it blinds them to any level of reasoning. Trump knows this and manipulates these poor people with it. This is why he is such an unscrupulous conman.



Look at the structure of his Trump University commercial. All you have to do is insert the Trump University pitch with that of his Trump presidential pitch. When it gets 'found out', then you punch down and bully your way out.

At the end of the day, its quite a sad reflection on the nation as it has certainly failed a large segment of society who are so desperate to listen/conned by this snake oil salesman.

That will be the lesson of the post-Trump presidency.

How the flipping hell did he get in (hint: Russia) and why were people so desperate to believe him.

 

[DougS]

How the flipping hell did he get in (hint: Russia) and why were people so desperate to believe him.

I spoke to the woman who cuts my hair about this. She literally spends every cent she earns on health insurance coverage for her spouse and herself. He is a realtor and does not have health benefits, so they have to get insurance via the ACA and it is killing them.

Trump is not wrong when he criticizes that program, and they believed that he has a plan to fix it. I see her again in September and we will see how she feels then.

My sister, similarly (retired from NSA) was at a conference and seated next to an African American who was going to vote for Trump. His reason: Jobs.

Trump tapped into a vein of dissatisfaction that I have not personally experienced.

People believe(d) that he has solutions. I do not.

 

[meridian]

People believe(d) that he has solutions. I do not.

There's a sucker born every minute!

 

[UncleMark]

I spoke to the woman who cuts my hair about this. She literally spends every cent she earns on health insurance coverage for her spouse and herself.

How much is that? Full time, 40 hours, or is she like a lot of stylists who work 15-20 hours a week?

He is a realtor and does not have health benefits, so they have to get insurance via the ACA and it is killing them.

What is their income? And where did they get their insurance before? And how much did they pay then?

There's lots of factors involved. Before the ACA my out of pocket for me and my wife on my employers plan was one third of my gross income. No, I am not kidding. And this was with my employer paying about 60% of the premium for my coverage. Talk about unsustainable... With the ACA it's half that.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

How much is that? Full time, 40 hours, or is she like a lot of stylists who work 15-20 hours a week?

What is their income? And where did they get their insurance before? And how much did they pay then?

There's lots of factors involved. Before the ACA my out of pocket for me and my wife on my employers plan was one third of my gross income. No, I am not kidding. And this was with my employer paying about 60% of the premium for my coverage. Talk about unsustainable... With the ACA it's half that.

I'd much rather pay $400-$500 per month in premiums and pay a $5,000 deductible on top of that rather than have my payroll tax go up a few percent. Because, you know, that makes total sense.

That's really what people against single payer are saying.

 

[UncleMark]

I'd much rather pay $400-$500 per month in premiums and pay a $5,000 deductible on top of that rather than have my payroll tax go up a few percent. Because, you know, that makes total sense.

That's really what people against single payer are saying.

IIUC, the ACA brought in 10M under individual plans and another 10M under Medicaid. And IIUC, those covered under employer plans have been largely unaffected, except for those that were covered under garbage plans that didn't cover shit.

So, it makes a difference to know about what's going on with Doug's stylist. Were they covered before? Was it a shit plan? How much are they paying, and how much is their income?

 

[meridian]

How much is that? Full time, 40 hours, or is she like a lot of stylists who work 15-20 hours a week?

What is their income? And where did they get their insurance before? And how much did they pay then?

There's lots of factors involved. Before the ACA my out of pocket for me and my wife on my employers plan was one third of my gross income. No, I am not kidding. And this was with my employer paying about 60% of the premium for my coverage. Talk about unsustainable... With the ACA it's half that.

Good Lord! I did not know that it was that bad.

My understanding is that a lot of Trump voters are ACA beneficiaries. If so, why are they still supporting him?

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

IIUC, the ACA brought in 10M under individual plans and another 10M under Medicaid. And IIUC, those covered under employer plans have been largely unaffected, except for those that were covered under garbage plans that didn't cover shit.

So, it makes a difference to know about what's going on with Doug's stylist. Were they covered before? Was it a shit plan? How much are they paying, and how much is their income?

I'm wondering why the "pro business" republican party isn't all for single payer. How much do employers here contribute to healthcare plans? Seems our business owners are at a competitive disadvantage. Also, wouldn't people be more likely to start new businesses and/or pursue what they are good at or really interested in as opposed to what offers good health insurance?

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

I'd much rather pay $400-$500 per month in premiums and pay a $5,000 deductible on top of that rather than have my payroll tax go up a few percent. Because, you know, that makes total sense.

That's really what people against single payer are saying.

The ONLY reason Righties are against single payer is because Dems are for it.

Period.

The mandate was first proposed by the Heritage Foundation.....THE Righty think tank. And conservatives all over the country loved it.....including Newt....because it "promoted personal responsibility." It only became SOCIALISM!!!! after Obama said he liked it too.

If Traitor Trump came out tomorrow and said, "I'm pushing for single payer because our businesses should not have to be hassled with health care like their competitors overseas don't have to deal with it.

Also, it gives you more freedom so you don't have to stay with a job you hate just to keep your health care."

his groupies would start putting his face on Mount Rushmore.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

How much is that? Full time, 40 hours, or is she like a lot of stylists who work 15-20 hours a week?

What is their income? And where did they get their insurance before? And how much did they pay then?

There's lots of factors involved. Before the ACA my out of pocket for me and my wife on my employers plan was one third of my gross income. No, I am not kidding. And this was with my employer paying about 60% of the premium for my coverage. Talk about unsustainable... With the ACA it's half that.

I am not jumping on one side or the other with this post. I am only stating fact as told to me from a life long friend. He is self employed and although not organized enough to rake in big $'s, he enjoys a lifestyle that suites him fine. Before ACA he was able to afford a plan that offered what he wanted and was quite happy with it. After ACA, he made enough that he cannot get the subsidies (and hates that fact that he is forced to ask to start with) and the new premiums are something that he simply cannot afford and keep the same lifestyle.

Basically he would have to significantly downgrade his lifestyle to afford all the help that the ACA is forcing on him. But he should like it for the greater good, I think is the message he is supposed to tow.

 

[cosmickid]

I am not jumping on one side or the other with this post. I am only stating fact as told to me from a life long friend. He is self employed and although not organized enough to rake in big $'s, he enjoys a lifestyle that suites him fine. Before ACA he was able to afford a plan that offered what he wanted and was quite happy with it. After ACA, he made enough that he cannot get the subsidies (and hates that fact that he is forced to ask to start with) and the new premiums are something that he simply cannot afford and keep the same lifestyle.

Basically he would have to significantly downgrade his lifestyle to afford all the help that the ACA is forcing on him. But he should like it for the greater good, I think is the message he is supposed to tow.

Healthcare costs were rising,whether the ACA was implemented or not.The fact that costs rose under the ACA starting with about year 4,illustrates the fact that costs were inevitably going to rise.The ACA was meant to stem that growth.I'd say your friend likely has no frame of reference to determine how much his current cost would be if the ACA hadn't been implemented.

 

[VanPastorMan]

The ONLY reason Righties are against single payer is because Dems are for it.

Period.

The mandate was first proposed by the Heritage Foundation.....THE Righty think tank. And conservatives all over the country loved it.....including Newt....because it "promoted personal responsibility." It only became SOCIALISM!!!! after Obama said he liked it too.

If Traitor Trump came out tomorrow and said, "I'm pushing for single payer because our businesses should not have to be hassled with health care like their competitors overseas don't have to deal with it.

Also, it gives you more freedom so you don't have to stay with a job you hate just to keep your health care."

his groupies would start putting his face on Mount Rushmore.

I am for single payer if the single payer is the patient. The idea of medical savings accounts is a great idea along with buying insurance across state lines. This way the patient acts like a consumer. But if the single payer is the government do you really trust those people who brought up Obama Care which is dying on the vine to really do a good job with managing our health care?

 

[cosmickid]

IIUC, the ACA brought in 10M under individual plans and another 10M under Medicaid. And IIUC, those covered under employer plans have been largely unaffected, except for those that were covered under garbage plans that didn't cover shit.

So, it makes a difference to know about what's going on with Doug's stylist. Were they covered before? Was it a shit plan? How much are they paying, and how much is their income?

I can vouch for that.I've had basically the same employer based plan for 10 yrs,and it's largely remained unchanged.

 

[cosmickid]

I am for single payer if the single payer is the patient. The idea of medical savings accounts is a great idea along with buying insurance across state lines. This way the patient acts like a consumer. But if the single payer is the government do you really trust those people who brought up Obama Care which is dying on the vine to really do a good job with managing our health care?

Dude I think my understanding of the complexities of health care is sorely lacking.Until I read one of your posts,and suddenly feel like I have a PhD in the economics of health care.Why EXACTLY do you think the ACA is "dying on the vine" in certain GOP controlled states?

 

[UncleMark]

I'm wondering why the "pro business" republican party isn't all for single payer. How much do employers here contribute to healthcare plans? Seems our business owners are at a competitive disadvantage.

"I'm pushing for single payer because our businesses should not have to be hassled with health care like their competitors overseas don't have to deal with it."

Ever wonder why GM has so many assembly plants in Canada? It ain't the low wages.

 

[UncleMark]

Basically he would have to significantly downgrade his lifestyle to afford all the help that the ACA is forcing on him. But he should like it for the greater good, I think is the message he is supposed to tow.

I have a coworker who "can't afford" insurance. But in the last two years he has been able to buy a house and send his stepdaughter to a private college.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Healthcare costs were rising,whether the ACA was implemented or not.The fact that costs rose under the ACA starting with about year 4,illustrates the fact that costs were inevitably going to rise.The ACA was meant to stem that growth.I'd say your friend likely has no frame of reference to determine how much his current cost would be if the ACA hadn't been implemented.

NO, as I understand it. Day 1 it rose since one could no longer, as in his case, choose a plan and level of coverage that he desired. Were premiums going up, no argument. They were going up just as they had been since I started paying for it (circa 1988). His also went up, but he was able to, ON HIS OWN, decide what coverage level he wanted to curve the expense. ACA, not so much. It was and is currently cheaper for him to pay the government mandated fine (for not paying for other peoples health care) than to have the ability to cover the things he wants covered for himself.
Do we have any statistics of how many people are in this same situation?

OR, how many people will not gamble with situations like this. Those who decide NOT to be entrepreneurial. Because we are mandated to pay for our fellow citizens who NEVER (in most cases) have the spirit to take those type risks to start with. The Greater good is killing the herd. IMHO

AND Health insurance IS NOT the problem to start with (as many before me have said on this board).

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I have a coworker who "can't afford" insurance. But in the last two years he has been able to buy a house and send his stepdaughter to a private college.

And your co-worker means what directly in relation to my friend? I am sorry if I am not going to follow your scarecrow down that road paved in yellow.

 

[UncleMark]

And your co-worker means what directly in relation to my friend? I am sorry if I am not going to follow your scarecrow down that road paved in yellow.

Like your friend, he has chosen to spend his money on other things. I hope it works out for him. But if it doesn't, we'll all pay for it, like we already do for all those uninsured who get their care in the emergency rooms and pay for it in the bankruptcy courts.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

NO, as I understand it. Day 1 it rose since one could no longer, as in his case, choose a plan and level of coverage that he desired. Were premiums going up, no argument. They were going up just as they had been since I started paying for it (circa 1988). His also went up, but he was able to, ON HIS OWN, decide what coverage level he wanted to curve the expense. ACA, not so much. It was and is currently cheaper for him to pay the government mandated fine (for not paying for other peoples health care) than to have the ability to cover the things he wants covered for himself.
Do we have any statistics of how many people are in this same situation?

OR, how many people will not gamble with situations like this. Those who decide NOT to be entrepreneurial. Because we are mandated to pay for our fellow citizens who NEVER (in most cases) have the spirit to take those type risks to start with. The Greater good is killing the herd. IMHO

AND Health insurance IS NOT the problem to start with (as many before me have said on this board).

The ACA was going to make prices go up, that's why they put in the subsidies. Prices were going to go up because under the ACA insurance plans had to actually cover shit. If someone wants to go back to cheap plans that don't cover shit, they're insane. The insurance companies are only too happy to give you a plan for $50 a month that doesn't cover things like hospitalization and has a $10,000 deductible. They'd sell you one right now if they were allowed to. You might as well set your money on fire, but, hey, that's freedom!

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

The ACA was going to make prices go up, that's why they put in the subsidies. Prices were going to go up because under the ACA insurance plans had to actually cover shit. If someone wants to go back to cheap plans that don't cover shit, they're insane. The insurance companies are only too happy to give you a plan for $50 a month that doesn't cover things like hospitalization and has a $10,000 deductible. They'd sell you one right now if they were allowed to. You might as well set your money on fire, but, hey, that's freedom!

Beyond stupid that so many people are forced into bankruptcy because of medical bills......and that people were denied for pre-existing conditions.

 

[DougS]

How much is that? Full time, 40 hours, or is she like a lot of stylists who work 15-20 hours a week?

What is their income? And where did they get their insurance before? And how much did they pay then?

There's lots of factors involved. Before the ACA my out of pocket for me and my wife on my employers plan was one third of my gross income. No, I am not kidding. And this was with my employer paying about 60% of the premium for my coverage. Talk about unsustainable... With the ACA it's half that.

Before the ACA they bought their health insurance in the open market. I'm not sure how many hours she works, but I would guess the cost of their insurance and prescriptions is in the neighborhood of 2k/month and increasing.

 

[DougS]

I am for single payer if the single payer is the patient. The idea of medical savings accounts is a great idea along with buying insurance across state lines. This way the patient acts like a consumer. But if the single payer is the government do you really trust those people who brought up Obama Care which is dying on the vine to really do a good job with managing our health care?

That's just great when you don't have to decide if you are going to pay for your medicines or your electricity.

I have an HSA and I agree it is a wonderful thing, but when you have no income, or are relying on a small pension or the kindness of relatives to get by, how do you fund?

There is a huge percentage of our population that cannot afford things that you take for granted. You need to get out more.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Like your friend, he has chosen to spend his money on other things. I hope it works out for him. But if it doesn't, we'll all pay for it, like we already do for all those uninsured who get their care in the emergency rooms and pay for it in the bankruptcy courts.

I like how you know what my friend chooses to do. He actually lives a very low key VERY modest life style. And you are right HE chooses what to spend HIS money on. A glam purchase for him is a new fishing pole.
I do notice though, it's only been a few days since you rolled out your new slogan. I think the standard old "message" may still be painfully coming through the speakers though.

I will add though, I think the new branding is a pretty good idea. I do think it will take 6-10 yrs of walking the walk for it to start to be recognized though. And for Gods sake get the current DNC "leadership" out of there if you expect anything to change.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I like how you know what my friend chooses to do. He actually lives a very low key VERY modest life style. And you are right HE chooses what to spend HIS money on. A glam purchase for him is a new fishing pole.
I do notice though, it's only been a few days since you rolled out your new slogan. I think the standard old "message" may still be painfully coming through the speakers though.

I will add though, I think the new branding is a pretty good idea. I do think it will take 6-10 yrs of walking the walk for it to start to be recognized though. And for Gods sake get the current DNC "leadership" out of there if you expect anything to change.

The DNC really wants to start taking advice from the party of Trump.

 

[iu_a_att]

I like how you know what my friend chooses to do. He actually lives a very low key VERY modest life style. And you are right HE chooses what to spend HIS money on. A glam purchase for him is a new fishing pole.

Your friend was lucky not to discover what so many people discovered prior to the ACA...that the health insurance they purchased did not really cover them for the serious illness they experienced. It is also interesting that you say your friend chooses what to spend his money on. Either insurance is voluntary in which case nobody can afford it; or, insurance is mandatory and everyone gets a choice between different kinds of good plans but everyone has to buy something.

 

[Ohio Guy]

I'd much rather pay $400-$500 per month in premiums and pay a $5,000 deductible on top of that rather than have my payroll tax go up a few percent. Because, you know, that makes total sense.

That's really what people against single payer are saying.

They're definitely saying that, but I also think they're saying some version of this too:

"I don't want my 'hard-earned' tax dollars going to help people who I perceive to be freeloaders/people I've never met/minorities"

 

[Ohio Guy]

There's a sucker born every minute!

I don't think that's entirely fair. I can't imagine being so desperate and at my whits end that I could excuse Trump beings grossly underqualified and amoral, but I can see where there might be some people who might have been.

The ACA is far from perfect and I'm sure there were some people negatively affected by it. With that said, I wasn't against it and don't think it should be repealed. It most definitely should be fixed.

 

[VanPastorMan]

That's just great when you don't have to decide if you are going to pay for your medicines or your electricity.

I have an HSA and I agree it is a wonderful thing, but when you have no income, or are relying on a small pension or the kindness of relatives to get by, how do you fund?

There is a huge percentage of our population that cannot afford things that you take for granted. You need to get out more.

Doug, no need to be hostile. The issue of our medical system is not quality, it is about access. Wouldn't you agree that the real issue for Americans is that costs have risen too high? With Obama Care many can't afford to even use their insurance because the deductible is too high. They in essence don't have insurance because they can't use it. What I was talking about was making the patient the consumer. This way costs will come down as medical providers are competing for the patient/consumer dollar.

 

[Optimist13]

Competing for the consumer dollar?

The health care provider will get his/her/their share of the market regardless

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Doug, no need to be hostile. The issue of our medical system is not quality, it is about access. Wouldn't you agree that the real issue for Americans is that costs have risen too high? With Obama Care many can't afford to even use their insurance because the deductible is too high. They in essence don't have insurance because they can't use it. What I was talking about was making the patient the consumer. This way costs will come down as medical providers are competing for the patient/consumer dollar.

That assumes there is competition. I have linked a story many times, the areas in the US with the cheapest healthcare are places like Chattanooga, TN, where there are numerous healthcare providers. But there are huge swaths of this country where one hospital network is the only game in town. And those areas have the highest costs. How does thus competition work if the only doctors for 50 miles work for the same company?

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Doug, no need to be hostile. The issue of our medical system is not quality, it is about access. Wouldn't you agree that the real issue for Americans is that costs have risen too high? With Obama Care many can't afford to even use their insurance because the deductible is too high. They in essence don't have insurance because they can't use it. What I was talking about was making the patient the consumer. This way costs will come down as medical providers are competing for the patient/consumer dollar.

"Access" isn't the issue. Hell, anyone can walk into any hospital ER and get treated. "Access" has never been the problem. Affordability is the issue once you've "accessed" the healthcare system. An HSA with a $3,500 (or whatever) limit isn't gonna do shit if you end up getting cancer or if you ever have to stay overnight in the hospital for something.

 

[meridian]

I am for single payer if the single payer is the patient. The idea of medical savings accounts is a great idea along with buying insurance across state lines. This way the patient acts like a consumer. But if the single payer is the government do you really trust those people who brought up Obama Care which is dying on the vine to really do a good job with managing our health care?

So, you are against ObamaCare for humanitarian reasons? I thought I have seen all!
So, you think it is wrong because it is done by the government? What do you think Trumpcare is?
Yes, I trust ex-president Obama over our so-called president Trump and Rev. Van any day.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

"Access" isn't the issue. Hell, anyone can walk into any hospital ER and get treated. "Access" has never been the problem. Affordability is the issue once you've "accessed" the healthcare system. An HSA with a $3,500 (or whatever) limit isn't gonna do shit if you end up getting cancer or if you ever have to stay overnight in the hospital for something.

I am sure HSA's are great, if one starts them young. I got onto one in my early 50s, with kids still on my plan. I can't get ahead of it. It just isn't possible. So the result will be me pumping tons of money into it, but whenever I get to retirement still not having money in it.

And the idea still may not work as intended. I am having total knee replacement. That will go over my out of pocket allowable, so much of the cost is totally on insurance. I could have really shopped and maybe found a doctor in Indy that would do it for $1000 less. But 1) I sure don't want to drive back to Bloomington a day or two after this surgery and 2) that $1000 would be insurance savings as I wouldn't have seen a penny of it. So I'm not really sure I see where it saves. Plus, when I had cataract surgery I did call surgeons in Indy. They asked me my plan, I told them, and their costs were all remarkably the same. I am not sure what the savings for TKR might be, but for cataract surgery it was in range of $10.

 

[meridian]

The ACA is far from perfect and I'm sure there were some people negatively affected by it. With that said, I wasn't against it and don't think it should be repealed. It most definitely should be fixed.

Nothing is perfect. I have seen the proposed Trumpcare. If you called that perfect or even more perfect than Obamacare, you are out of mind, amigo.
Obamacare is created by humans. Humans are not perfect. If Trump and his followers are decent, or even semi-decent, humans, they should be talking about improving it, not trashing it and Obama. All I've seen so far sound like they are trashing it because it is Obama's accomplishment. Sad, very sad!

 

[VanPastorMan]

So, you are against ObamaCare for humanitarian reasons? I thought I have seen all!
So, you think it is wrong because it is done by the government? What do you think Trumpcare is?
Yes, I trust ex-president Obama over our so-called president Trump and Rev. Van any day.

You should be against Obamacare because it has not worked. It is dying. What good is insurance if your deductible has to be so high that you basically don't have insurance?

 

[UncleMark]

You should be against Obamacare because it has not worked. It is dying. What good is insurance if your deductible has to be so high that you basically don't have insurance?

What is the deductible under your plan? And is it a group policy or bought on the individual market?

 

[joelefty]

I am for single payer if the single payer is the patient. The idea of medical savings accounts is a great idea along with buying insurance across state lines. This way the patient acts like a consumer. But if the single payer is the government do you really trust those people who brought up Obama Care which is dying on the vine to really do a good job with managing our health care?

you are dangerously misinformed

 

[sglowrider]

There's a sucker born every minute!

Speaking of suckers..



Literally a straight line trend from the crisis; then Obama and still continuing, and he's taking credit for it... actually, it actually looks ever so slightly exponential from the beginning of Obama's presidency.

Hilariously, he hasn't implemented any tangible policies during his 6 months to take any credit for Obama's work.

But he has.