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Bowlmania

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Sep 23, 2016
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This won't be brief. Sorry.

I was looking back at a thread ("Trump 2024!") that TDS-sufferer mcmurtry (relax, murt - - just joking) started over a year and a half ago. I predicted then that Trump would be the 2024 GOP nominee, but I couldn't have been more wrong about Biden. I didn't think he'd run for reelection and I anticipated a crowded and competitive Democrat field.

Part of me thinks that someone of influence in the Democrat party needs to have a "Come to Jesus" talk with Jill who, in turn, needs to have a "Come to Jill" talk with Joe and convince him not to seek reelection. The question becomes, though, is it too late? The deadline has already passed in some states for primary filings, and I believe that the deadline will have passed in 14 states by Dec 31. And the launch of any campaign takes time and money. Election Day 2024 is just 12 month away.

A second option is that Biden waits until the Democratic convention in August, drops the bomb that he's changed his mind, and throws his support to someone else. I read last night that, under Dem Party rules, pledged delegates aren't required to vote for the candidate they represent, but rather must "reflect the sentiments of those who elected them." If Biden said in so many words, "You're my delegates but I'm dropping out and endorsing [fill in the blank]," that endorsement would be hugely influential.

But who would he endorse? How does he NOT endorse Harris, and she's less popular than he is? Then again, there's some precedent for a president turning his back on his VP (and I'm not talking about Trump, who did more than turn his back on Pence in Jan 2021). While Biden says he didn't run in 2016 because of his son Beau's death and, indeed, that could have been a factor, there was reliable reporting that Obama saw Clinton as the heir apparent and encouraged Biden to step aside. Finally, there's another consideration with respect to Harris. if Biden failed to support her as his successor, it could be perceived as a slap in the face to the black voters who were instrumental in his win in 2020. The issue becomes moot, though, if Harris were to announce she's not seeking the nomination.

If Biden were to announce at the Convention that he has decided not to move forward, fails to endorse a successor, and no candidate wins the first ballot, then a brokered convention would be the result and chaos could very well follow. A fractured party is the last thing the Dems would want with little time remaining before the general election.

The Dems are in a really tough spot. I never thought I'd be saying this, and it's kind of surreal to think this is a possibilty for a guy with a lengthy rap sheet, but Trump could win.
 
but Trump could win.
The Dream Team can't. stop. winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A second option is that Biden waits until the Democratic convention in August, drops the bomb that he's changed his mind, and throws his support to someone else
i think this is a disservice both to his party, prospective candidates, and the voters. all deserve a full campaign season of promotion and vetting. biden is not the guy we thought he was. i think he's a really rotten character. if he had an ounce of dignity and self awareness he'd have already announced he wasn't running. Dems have good candidates on the bench. guys who'd wipe the floor with trump and i trust be decent/solid leaders in a time when we really need someone capable of bring their A game
 
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The Dream Team can't. stop. winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think this is a disservice both to his party, prospective candidates, and the voters. all deserve a full campaign season of promotion and vetting. biden is not the guy we thought he was. i think he's a really rotten character. if he had an ounce of dignity and self awareness he'd have already announced he wasn't running. Dems have good candidates on the bench. guys who'd wipe the floor with trump and i trust be decent/solid leaders in a time when we really need someone capable of bring their A game
Show some effort, murt. My post is about options and timing. What should Biden and the Dems do?
 
This won't be brief. Sorry.

I was looking back at a thread ("Trump 2024!") that TDS-sufferer mcmurtry (relax, murt - - just joking) started over a year and a half ago. I predicted then that Trump would be the 2024 GOP nominee, but I couldn't have been more wrong about Biden. I didn't think he'd run for reelection and I anticipated a crowded and competitive Democrat field.

Part of me thinks that someone of influence in the Democrat party needs to have a "Come to Jesus" talk with Jill who, in turn, needs to have a "Come to Jill" talk with Joe and convince him not to seek reelection. The question becomes, though, is it too late? The deadline has already passed in some states for primary filings, and I believe that the deadline will have passed in 14 states by Dec 31. And the launch of any campaign takes time and money. Election Day 2024 is just 12 month away.

A second option is that Biden waits until the Democratic convention in August, drops the bomb that he's changed his mind, and throws his support to someone else. I read last night that, under Dem Party rules, pledged delegates aren't required to vote for the candidate they represent, but rather must "reflect the sentiments of those who elected them." If Biden said in so many words, "You're my delegates but I'm dropping out and endorsing [fill in the blank]," that endorsement would be hugely influential.

But who would he endorse? How does he NOT endorse Harris, and she's less popular than he is? Then again, there's some precedent for a president turning his back on his VP (and I'm not talking about Trump, who did more than turn his back on Pence in Jan 2021). While Biden says he didn't run in 2016 because of his son Beau's death and, indeed, that could have been a factor, there was reliable reporting that Obama saw Clinton as the heir apparent and encouraged Biden to step aside. Finally, there's another consideration with respect to Harris. if Biden failed to support her as his successor, it could be perceived as a slap in the face to the black voters who were instrumental in his win in 2020. The issue becomes moot, though, if Harris were to announce she's not seeking the nomination.

If Biden were to announce at the Convention that he has decided not to move forward, fails to endorse a successor, and no candidate wins the first ballot, then a brokered convention would be the result and chaos could very well follow. A fractured party is the last thing the Dems would want with little time remaining before the general election.

The Dems are in a really tough spot. I never thought I'd be saying this, and it's kind of surreal to think this is a possibilty for a guy with a lengthy rap sheet, but Trump could win.
I mentioned this in another thread, but I think James Carville agrees with you.

I do think his 'Ruth Bader Biden' dig/slight/warning is probably apt. Had RBG just had the wherewithal and grace to step down during Obama's administration, the Supreme Court would look very different today. If Biden would step down and allow for a viable candidate 30 YEARS younger to step up, the Democratic party could be set up nicely for the next decade or so.

And then there's the very real threat of another Trump presidency. I'm not given to hyerbole, but I can't see how a second Trump term wouldn't be anything but a revenge tour, tough guy talk and bluster and a collective shit burger for the country.

I do like the Carville's idea of either Andy Beshear or Josh Shapiro being the next person up, but I'm open to other options too.
 
Show some effort, murt. My post is about options and timing. What should Biden and the Dems do?
doin a bunch at once today. biden needs to announce immediately that he's not running. that he's old and wants to devote the years he has left to his family. not only would people understand it would elevate his legacy immensely. this would open the door for others to emerge and throw trump in a tailspin.
 
doin a bunch at once today. biden needs to announce immediately that he's not running. that he's old and wants to devote the years he has left to his family. not only would people understand it would elevate his legacy immensely. this would open the door for others to emerge and throw trump in a tailspin.
I agree with this murt. Bowing out gracefully is better than getting beat in a general election by a crazy person. And dragging democracy down with you.
 
I agree with this murt. Bowing out gracefully is better than getting beat in a general election by a crazy person. And dragging democracy down with you.
he's not going to make it another five years in office. he's deteriorating so quickly. i guess the alternative is to bump harris somehow and run with a competent vp picked based on competence and not identity. shapiro or someone. then people know the backup is legit and would fee better about voting for biden
 
he's not going to make it another five years in office. he's deteriorating so quickly. i guess the alternative is to bump harris somehow and run with a competent vp picked based on competence and not identity. shapiro or someone. then people know the backup is legit and would fee better about voting for biden
then just do shapiro or beshear or whitmer today. rip the bandaid.

Agree there's no way he makes it (competently) through the next 5 years. Reagan at the end of his presidency looked and sounded 100x better than Biden does right now.
 
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then just do shapiro or beshear or whitmer today. rip the bandaid.

Agree there's no way he makes it (competently) through the next 5 years. Reagan at the end of his presidency looked and sounded 100x better than Biden does right now.
i'm fascinated with aging. i've learned quite a bit about it. as i said the hemsworth series on it is great. and i like reading about the blue zones etc. i'm not an expert yet but i'm very close. now i don't have the discipline to take any of hte steps. it's always one day not day one, but still. we age in dog years after about 75. the decline is rapid as that's about our shelf life. 75-80. i think trump is too old now too fwiw
 
The hold up on this almost has to be Biden himself, at this point. Its too obvious, and it certainly doesn't seem like there are millions of "Only Biden" voters out there, like the GOP is facing with their Trump situation.

My best guess is he still feels like its his "duty" to keep Trump out of office. And like most politicians, has a very inflated self view. He probably still thinks he's the best person to take on Trump.
 
i'm fascinated with aging.
Me too. I’m in it up to my neck.

A while back I looked up the guys I was on law review with. They are all dead.

OTOH I was with 2 other HS classmates in September. We can all think our way out of a wet paper bag. That puts us way ahead of Biden. My ski buddies have now dwindled to two. But the two of us have season tickets this season. Oh, he is 85.

But yeah, aging is upon me. I knocked a slot canyon hike off my bucket list a few days ago. The guide gave me a hand on one part of the trail.

Biden obviosly could never keep up mentally or physically with the group I hang out with. The youngest of us is 77. The oldest is 85. Any one of us could do fine in a high position of responsibility, with of course hearing aids, magnifying glasses and maybe a cane.
 
doin a bunch at once today. biden needs to announce immediately that he's not running. that he's old and wants to devote the years he has left to his family. not only would people understand it would elevate his legacy immensely. this would open the door for others to emerge and throw trump in a tailspin.
So long as Clyburn is backing Joe, he isn’t going anywhere. And if Joe steps aside, Clyburn said the successor must be Harris.

 
Me too. I’m in it up to my neck.

A while back I looked up the guys I was on law review with. They are all dead.

OTOH I was with 2 other HS classmates in September. We can all think our way out of a wet paper bag. That puts us way ahead of Biden. My ski buddies have now dwindled to two. But the two of us have season tickets this season. Oh, he is 85.

But yeah, aging is upon me. I knocked a slot canyon hike off my bucket list a few days ago. The guide gave me a hand on one part of the trail.

Biden obviosly could never keep up mentally or physically with the group I hang out with. The youngest of us is 77. The oldest is 85. Any one of us could do fine in a high position of responsibility, with of course hearing aids, magnifying glasses and maybe a cane.
in the last two years i've lost three close friends and and two more had strokes. all at 50. it seems like there are markers and then if you get past it you can carry on for a while. 50 is one of them. you might be one of the lucky ones. luck (genes etc) is the biggest factor left out of all the shows and things i read. keep moving coh. it's the easiest thing to control i think
 
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So long as Clyburn is backing Joe, he isn’t going anywhere. And if Joe steps aside, Clyburn said the successor must be Harris.

LOL figures. a guy older than biden representing the cotton picking black belt where violent crime is rampant and if you were dropped off there wouldn't have the foggiest idea of what year it was.
 
This won't be brief. Sorry.

I was looking back at a thread ("Trump 2024!") that TDS-sufferer mcmurtry (relax, murt - - just joking) started over a year and a half ago. I predicted then that Trump would be the 2024 GOP nominee, but I couldn't have been more wrong about Biden. I didn't think he'd run for reelection and I anticipated a crowded and competitive Democrat field.

Part of me thinks that someone of influence in the Democrat party needs to have a "Come to Jesus" talk with Jill who, in turn, needs to have a "Come to Jill" talk with Joe and convince him not to seek reelection. The question becomes, though, is it too late? The deadline has already passed in some states for primary filings, and I believe that the deadline will have passed in 14 states by Dec 31. And the launch of any campaign takes time and money. Election Day 2024 is just 12 month away.

A second option is that Biden waits until the Democratic convention in August, drops the bomb that he's changed his mind, and throws his support to someone else. I read last night that, under Dem Party rules, pledged delegates aren't required to vote for the candidate they represent, but rather must "reflect the sentiments of those who elected them." If Biden said in so many words, "You're my delegates but I'm dropping out and endorsing [fill in the blank]," that endorsement would be hugely influential.

But who would he endorse? How does he NOT endorse Harris, and she's less popular than he is? Then again, there's some precedent for a president turning his back on his VP (and I'm not talking about Trump, who did more than turn his back on Pence in Jan 2021). While Biden says he didn't run in 2016 because of his son Beau's death and, indeed, that could have been a factor, there was reliable reporting that Obama saw Clinton as the heir apparent and encouraged Biden to step aside. Finally, there's another consideration with respect to Harris. if Biden failed to support her as his successor, it could be perceived as a slap in the face to the black voters who were instrumental in his win in 2020. The issue becomes moot, though, if Harris were to announce she's not seeking the nomination.

If Biden were to announce at the Convention that he has decided not to move forward, fails to endorse a successor, and no candidate wins the first ballot, then a brokered convention would be the result and chaos could very well follow. A fractured party is the last thing the Dems would want with little time remaining before the general election.

The Dems are in a really tough spot. I never thought I'd be saying this, and it's kind of surreal to think this is a possibilty for a guy with a lengthy rap sheet, but Trump could win.
I assume they realize they don't need to do anything. Biden was old and showing cognitive decline 3 years ago and still received 81 million votes. They'll just run the same playbook they ran then. Have the media run cover for Biden and say the world is ending if Trump is elected.

Overall the handlers in the background are happy with Biden. He passed numerous trillion dollars bills and was able to grow government spending 25%. The objective is larger government and power with the Democratic party. And Biden has done a great job in those areas.

A quick thought experiment. How many people on this board who voted for Biden are going to vote for Trump? The answer is zero. Biden is still the favorite against, Trump, and they know it.
 
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I assume they realize they don't need to do anything. Biden was old and showing cognitive decline 3 years ago and still received 81 million votes. They'll just run the same playbook they ran then. Have the media run cover for Biden and say the world is ending if Trump is elected.

Overall the handlers in the background are happy with Biden. He passed numerous trillion dollars bills and was able to grow government spending 25%. The objective is larger government and power with the Democratic party. And Biden has done a great job in those areas.

A quick thought experiment. How many people on this board who voted for Biden are going to vote for Trump? The answer is zero. Biden is still the favorite against, Trump, and they know it. He's not going anywhere, unless he has a major health issue in the next 6 months.
disagree vehemently. we've gotten kicked in the teeth in ways that impact voters the most: freezer burned crab legs, gas, cars, homes, we can debate his culpability in all of this but 1) he remains the coach and 2) do you have any faith in him to have the ability to get us out?
 
So true. I’ve criticized Biden for all kinds of stuff, but I don’t criticize him for falling, on stairs or on a bike. I’ve done both. You gotta be moving in order to fall.
I have taken a couple of tumbles in getting the hang of riding my new-to-me long wheel base recumbent. It takes some getting used to, but a month in and I think I have about got it. Much faster than my recumbent trike and oh so comfy on the back, neck, and butt..


stock image (mine is red)

Rans-Stratus-Blue-Used.jpg
 
I have taken a couple of tumbles in getting the hang of riding my new-to-me long wheel base recumbent. It takes some getting used to, but a month in and I think I have about got it. Much faster than my recumbent trike and oh so comfy on the back, neck, and butt..


stock image (mine is red)

Rans-Stratus-Blue-Used.jpg
I’ve tried a recumbent a few times. I don’t have the patience to get the hang of it after all those miles on a conventional bike. It’s like learning how to walk again.
 
I’ve tried a recumbent a few times. I don’t have the patience to get the hang of it after all those miles on a conventional bike. It’s like learning how to walk again.
I can't ride a regular bike after neck and lower spine fusion surgeries. I'd be in a lot of pain afterwards, but I can ride for hours on the recumbent.

Recumbents have been amazing for me. 1,200 miles so far this year, though 1,100 has been on my trike. You would probably like a Catrike Villager trike with exit assist bars. This is a catrike 559 with the bars on front and they really make it easier getting on and off. The Villager has a higher seat so it's easier still, and the seat is more upright.

pd4gbxnpjtac1ql8vmql_695x586.jpg



Here's a stock Villager without the assist bars, to give you an idea of the geometry. Fun ride...

DSC_6099.jpg
 
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This won't be brief. Sorry.

I was looking back at a thread ("Trump 2024!") that TDS-sufferer mcmurtry (relax, murt - - just joking) started over a year and a half ago. I predicted then that Trump would be the 2024 GOP nominee, but I couldn't have been more wrong about Biden. I didn't think he'd run for reelection and I anticipated a crowded and competitive Democrat field.

Part of me thinks that someone of influence in the Democrat party needs to have a "Come to Jesus" talk with Jill who, in turn, needs to have a "Come to Jill" talk with Joe and convince him not to seek reelection. The question becomes, though, is it too late? The deadline has already passed in some states for primary filings, and I believe that the deadline will have passed in 14 states by Dec 31. And the launch of any campaign takes time and money. Election Day 2024 is just 12 month away.

A second option is that Biden waits until the Democratic convention in August, drops the bomb that he's changed his mind, and throws his support to someone else. I read last night that, under Dem Party rules, pledged delegates aren't required to vote for the candidate they represent, but rather must "reflect the sentiments of those who elected them." If Biden said in so many words, "You're my delegates but I'm dropping out and endorsing [fill in the blank]," that endorsement would be hugely influential.

But who would he endorse? How does he NOT endorse Harris, and she's less popular than he is? Then again, there's some precedent for a president turning his back on his VP (and I'm not talking about Trump, who did more than turn his back on Pence in Jan 2021). While Biden says he didn't run in 2016 because of his son Beau's death and, indeed, that could have been a factor, there was reliable reporting that Obama saw Clinton as the heir apparent and encouraged Biden to step aside. Finally, there's another consideration with respect to Harris. if Biden failed to support her as his successor, it could be perceived as a slap in the face to the black voters who were instrumental in his win in 2020. The issue becomes moot, though, if Harris were to announce she's not seeking the nomination.

If Biden were to announce at the Convention that he has decided not to move forward, fails to endorse a successor, and no candidate wins the first ballot, then a brokered convention would be the result and chaos could very well follow. A fractured party is the last thing the Dems would want with little time remaining before the general election.

The Dems are in a really tough spot. I never thought I'd be saying this, and it's kind of surreal to think this is a possibilty for a guy with a lengthy rap sheet, but Trump could win.
Trump's been the favorite to win the general ever since the grand juries started indicting him.

Biden should step aside, but if he does, that doesn't mean the Dems' problems are solved.
 
Trump's been the favorite to win the general ever since the grand juries started indicting him.

Biden should step aside, but if he does, that doesn't mean the Dems' problems are solved.
I still believe that if you dump the everything is racist tranny centric left cult and hardcore trumpers you would have a majority behind any normal pub or Dem
 
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I can't ride a regular bike after neck and lower spine fusion surgeries. I'd be in a lot of pain afterwards, but I can ride for hours on the recumbent.

Recumbents have been amazing for me. 1,200 miles so far this year, though 1,100 has been on my trike. You would probably like a Catrike Villager trike with exit assist bars. This is a catrike 559 with the bars on front and they really make it easier getting on and off. The Villager has a higher seat so it's easier still, and the seat is more upright.

pd4gbxnpjtac1ql8vmql_695x586.jpg



Here's a stock Villager without the assist bars, to give you an idea of the geometry. Fun ride...

DSC_6099.jpg
Spinal surgeries certainly would make a difference. A conventional bike is good for your core, arms and shoulders. Each season I had to round into shape. Now I ride more upright with most weight on my butt. Also fewer and fewer miles past 75 y.o.
 
I still believe that if you dump the everything is racist tranny centric left cult and hardcore trumpers you would have a majority behind any normal pub or Dem
Indeed. For me normal also includes backing off the GND nonsense and climate obsession.
 
I still believe that if you dump the everything is racist tranny centric left cult and hardcore trumpers you would have a majority behind any normal pub or Dem
I hope you're right but 1) you're not, and 2) it doesn't matter because your voters are all worried that a normal Dem is controlled by the racism tranny cabal, anyway. I guarantee you if we nominated Manchin, he'd be coming after your daughter's sports trophy to give to a black trans kid within a week.
 
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it doesn't matter because your voters are all worried that a normal Dem is controlled by the racism tranny cabal
i don't believe this. the over the top identity politics and subsequent response to same wasn't a product of spontaneous combustion. it was fomented and fostered by this administration and media. brad and crazy and i have all seen it in schools etc. people have seen it at work. this isn't a fiction. so again i don't believe normal dems posit this fringe beliefs and would do fine in an election. harris/pete types forget it
 
i don't believe this. the over the top identity politics and subsequent response to same wasn't a product of spontaneous combustion. it was fomented and fostered by this administration and media. brad and crazy and i have all seen it in schools etc. people have seen it at work. this isn't a fiction. so again i don't believe normal dems posit this fringe beliefs and would do fine in an election. harris/pete types forget it
I hope we nominate a known moderate just to prove you wrong.

Before he announced he was running, Republicans on this forum gushed over Biden.
 
I hope you're right but 1) you're not, and 2) it doesn't matter because your voters are all worried that a normal Dem is controlled by the racism tranny cabal, anyway. I guarantee you if we nominated Manchin, he'd be coming after your daughter's sports trophy to give to a black trans kid within a week.

Pretty much and both sides do it to varying degrees. As soon as someone is nominated, the crap slinging begins in earnest.
 
Before he announced he was running, Republicans on this forum gushed over Biden.
and it proves my point. we thought he was going to be a moderate dem not co-opted by the progressive squad in the wake of the summer of love while announcing he's going to make sure the uswnt gets equal pay without a clue about cbas etc. we thought he was a moderate not a squad member vowing to be transformative
 
Trump's been the favorite to win the general ever since the grand juries started indicting him.

Biden should step aside, but if he does, that doesn't mean the Dems' problems are solved.
Reading this thread a thought has occurred - and often does - and that is, who do the usual posters of the Dem/lib pursuasion think will be or want to be the Dem nominee when Joe takes a powder? I see no Dem of sufficient national prowess to mount a significant campaign.
 
Reading this thread a thought has occurred - and often does - and that is, who do the usual posters of the Dem/lib pursuasion think will be or want to be the Dem nominee when Joe takes a powder? I see no Dem of sufficient national prowess to mount a significant campaign.

Most candidates are under the radar until they start their campaign. People knew of Trump obviously outside of the political world but by and large people don't pay attention to politicians in other states unless the media or someone signs a light on them.

If Trump ends up being the nomination for the GOP, then I would bet any dem under 70 without baggage would stand a pretty good chance given the strong anti-Trump vote. Everyone has an opinion on Trump so just need a candidate that will keep the anti-Trump vote.
 
Reading this thread a thought has occurred - and often does - and that is, who do the usual posters of the Dem/lib pursuasion think will be or want to be the Dem nominee when Joe takes a powder? I see no Dem of sufficient national prowess to mount a significant campaign.
I think it should be Shapiro or Beshear. But it will probably be Newsom.
 
There's literally a Democratic white male in the Oval Office right now. Save your tired cliches, please.
fetterman said newsom is running for president right now but doesn't have the balls to announce it. fetterman is probably jealous. newsom wears impeccably fitting bespoke suits. imagine the appearance he'd cut on stage next to trump's mess
 
And then there's the very real threat of another Trump presidency. I'm not given to hyerbole, but I can't see how a second Trump term wouldn't be anything but a revenge tour, tough guy talk and bluster and a collective shit burger for the country.

I do like the Carville's idea of either Andy Beshear or Josh Shapiro being the next person up, but I'm open to other options too.
Yeah, he's pretty much announced that a second term would be mostly about retribution. I think it's likely he'd also push for repeal of the 22nd Amendment and/or set up Junior as his successor.

I agree that Beshear would be a good option, but first he needs to win tomorrow. It's never good to be entering a presidential race coming off a loss, but it's definitely been done.

With respect to Shapiro, I think he's still kind of light on experience. Also, while religion shouldn't make a difference, it would - - particularly in today's environment. There's anti-Semitism in both parties.

One person I like who nobody talks about is Seth Moulton. Guy is a centrist, reasonable, well-spoken, likable, only 45, and a decorated war vet (Marine). He announced his candidacy for the presidency in 2019 but it was a short-lived campaign. He couldn't generate any traction - - -or money. Things, though, could go much differently for him now if Biden was out of the race.
 
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