The Interview

[IUCrazy2]

If you’re throwing stones you should know your guy lives in a glass house.

I think the thing that somewhat frustrates me is that yeah, Trump has this thing but so does Kamala and she also has the added benefit of stupid policies like unrealized gains taxes to go along with her. That is the circle I have trouble squaring when it comes to all the Bush, McCain, and Romney people who are throwing their support behind her. (You at least are saying you won't vote for her.) He sucks. She sucks in many of the same ways. He is basically an 80's Democrat. She is the most left wing candidate we have had at least in my lifetime.

I guess I just don't understand why I should fear 4 more years of a guy I already lived through because of his personable foibles over someone who, from my POV, is a political lunatic. To each their own I suppose.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Stuart Stevens, campaign manager for Romney and a leading Lincoln Project operator, said that he thinks this election will be like the Carter-Reagan election. The polls were statistically tied throughout the campaign until the last weekend. Reagan won in a blowout, and he thinks Harris will do the same. I don’t share his confidence, but it would make Trump’s inevitable claim of fraud ring hollow-at least with most people.

The Lincoln Project folks are the reason Trump exists. **** them.

 

[LifelongIU77]

You people are always about race. Yes, you think it’s the left, but it’s the right that has a problem with race and it’s always on their mind. Your post just proves my point.

Incorrect. And don't sit there like you actually think dems give any shits about any people. They use race,and sexual orientation because it evokes emotions. Emotions,bring emotional(illogical) responses. They do this because they know that if they have someone's emotions,they don't really have to worry about anything else. The pathetic part,is you dumbass fools,who can't take emotion out of your decision making process. You,are the reason race,is even discussed. Congratulations,you got outsmarted by a group of people who only are interested in useful idiots who are easily manipulated. That's why the dems have been the party that minorities have been voting for forever,yet little has changed for them. Also the reason why they took away your chance to vote for candidates in primary. They knew you wouldn't elect Kamala without being forced(she got killed on policy in 2020) and without being able to play the race card,they had 0 chance. Congratulations morons.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think the thing that somewhat frustrates me is that yeah, Trump has this thing but so does Kamala and she also has the added benefit of stupid policies like unrealized gains taxes to go along with her. That is the circle I have trouble squaring when it comes to all the Bush, McCain, and Romney people who are throwing their support behind her. (You at least are saying you won't vote for her.) He sucks. She sucks in many of the same ways. He is basically an 80's Democrat. She is the most left wing candidate we have had at least in my lifetime.

I guess I just don't understand why I should fear 4 more years of a guy I already lived through because of his personable foibles over someone who, from my POV, is a political lunatic. To each their own I suppose.

Exactly

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Incorrect. And don't sit there like you actually think dems give any shits about any people. They use race,and sexual orientation because it evokes emotions. Emotions,bring emotional(illogical) responses. They do this because they know that if they have someone's emotions,they don't really have to worry about anything else. The pathetic part,is you dumbass fools,who can't take emotion out of your decision making process. You,are the reason race,is even discussed. Congratulations,you got outsmarted by a group of people who only are interested in useful idiots who are easily manipulated. That's why the dems have been the party that minorities have been voting for forever,yet little has changed for them. Also the reason why they took away your chance to vote for candidates in primary. They knew you wouldn't elect Kamala without being forced(she got killed on policy in 2020) and without being able to play the race card,they had 0 chance. Congratulations morons.

That’s very emotional of you.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Exactly

And you know what is even more crazy, I keep hearing that Trump is far right and that the GOP needs to moderate more and I am just curious as to how much further to the left they expect conservatives to tack? I don't feel I have a true conservative candidate on the ballot again this year. I have a 1980's Democrat vs. a leftist loon. The choice is liberal and left. Trump sits to the left of me on several items. You aren't going to get more of a moderate than that from the right.

I don't think he is some saint, quite the contrary. That being said, I think the hand wringing about him is overblown. I think that is particularly true of all these "Republicans" under Bush and Romney who have an issue with him. I think much more of that is just calculated power posturing. "I would rather he lose and I rule a pauper kingdom then to have to take a back seat to anyone." If that is the case, **** those guys. They aren't real leaders. They are pathetic grifters.

 

[mcmurtry66]

And you know what is even more crazy, I keep hearing that Trump is far right and that the GOP needs to moderate more and I am just curious as to how much further to the left they expect conservatives to tack? I don't feel I have a true conservative candidate on the ballot again this year. I have a 1980's Democrat vs. a leftist loon. The choice is liberal and left. Trump sits to the left of me on several items. You aren't going to get more of a moderate than that from the right.

I don't think he is some saint, quite the contrary. That being said, I think the hand wringing about him is overblown. I think that is particularly true of all these "Republicans" under Bush and Romney who have an issue with him. I think much more of that is just calculated power posturing. "I would rather he lose and I rule a pauper kingdom then to have to take a back seat to anyone." If that is the case, **** those guys. They aren't real leaders. They are pathetic grifters.

I don’t give two shits about the old guard pubs. You don’t vote in a radical progressive if you’re a conservative. What’s more you are spot on again re trump being a center to center right pub or 80s Dem. The far right assertions conflate a swath of voters with policy. There are far right groups that support trump but that hasn’t translated to policy. They’re distinct

 

[TDHoosier]

A dishonest, purposeful distortion of the criticism of Harris. No one has suggested, ever, that joint interviews are wrong as a matter of practice.

Rather, that after over a month with Harris as the nominee, with no press conferences, no interviews or policy positions articulated, she finally decides to give her first interview…….. with her VP by her side.

When the drumbeat has been growing to a roar that she’s thoughtless, inarticulate and afraid of media. Doing a joint interview, to a friendly anchor, pre-taped and edited cements said criticisms in a way that leaves little doubt.

She’s useless

My department has 15 locations and we frequently do interviews for prospective employees. The only ones I have to sit in on are with my Managers who have zero idea how to do one and quite honestly are not good enough to do it or make an educated decision. This is basically my take on this interview, she needs help and support because otherwise it would be a fail.

I'm just amazed at how MSM has been able to spin this to look like she is a qualified candidate give all we know, or in her case do not know? Just shows the stupidity of a vast majority of American people IMO.

 

[IUNorth]

Incorrect. And don't sit there like you actually think dems give any shits about any people. They use race,and sexual orientation because it evokes emotions. Emotions,bring emotional(illogical) responses. They do this because they know that if they have someone's emotions,they don't really have to worry about anything else. The pathetic part,is you dumbass fools,who can't take emotion out of your decision making process. You,are the reason race,is even discussed. Congratulations,you got outsmarted by a group of people who only are interested in useful idiots who are easily manipulated. That's why the dems have been the party that minorities have been voting for forever,yet little has changed for them. Also the reason why they took away your chance to vote for candidates in primary. They knew you wouldn't elect Kamala without being forced(she got killed on policy in 2020) and without being able to play the race card,they had 0 chance. Congratulations morons.

And yet, you support the dumbass fool MAGA leader that championed an obviously racist birther theory...made obvious racist comments on immigrants... and at a minimum, struggled mightily for whatever reason, to distance himself from the horrible humans at Charlottesville.

I actually agree with part of your main premise, that the Democrats are given way too much of a pass on their underwhelming performance and actual support for minorities. But the minorities you mention, they're people, they're humans, they think critically and vote based off of their thoughts and beliefs just like anyone else does. And whatever their reasons are, they're still voting largely for Democratic candidates and leadership. They're not being "tricked", any more than MAGA voters are being tricked by Trump.

Many GOP posters on this board have used the fact that Trump, for most of his life before politics, was just as much a Democrat as he was a Republican, as a way to sell his policies and ability to lead. I wonder if some of the answers as to why Trump exploded through GOP voters, and changed that party, is that the GOP is the only party where there's enough oxygen to allow for the things in my first paragraph to live and breath. I have no clue if Trump, himself, is a racist. He probably isn't. But he sure has hell has used racist rhetoric to gain favor and notoriety in the GOP party. In the Democratic party, people get disqualified for actions and rhetoric that are a fraction of the level that Trump has openly went to.

Democratic leadership should be doing more for all the various minorities that largely support them, I agree with that. But if you want to try to prove any sort of equivalence on race issues...you're going to struggle.

 

[mcmurtry66]

My department has 15 locations and we frequently do interviews for prospective employees. The only ones I have to sit in on are with my Managers who have zero idea how to do one and quite honestly are not good enough to do it or make an educated decision. This is basically my take on this interview, she needs help and support because otherwise it would be a fail.

I'm just amazed at how MSM has been able to spin this to look like she is a qualified candidate give all we know, or in her case do not know? Just shows the stupidity of a vast majority of American people IMO.

The glow up is ridiculous

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

They don't do it together since each of them thinks that the other is WEIRD.

Trump had been the presumptive nominee since, what... January?

Harris and Walz have been busy as hell fundraising, since the don't have a cult of rubes that they can shake down at a moment's notice. It's no deflection to acknowledge that they had catching up to do.

It's absolutely a deflection. That's exactly what it is. One you're making to support your preferred candidate. So don't pretend you're coming at this conversation honestly.

We all see what you are. And it's sad.

 

[mcmurtry66]

And yet, you support the dumbass fool MAGA leader that championed an obviously racist birther theory...made obvious racist comments on immigrants... and at a minimum, struggled mightily for whatever reason, to distance himself from the horrible humans at Charlottesville.

I actually agree with part of your main premise, that the Democrats are given way too much of a pass on their underwhelming performance and actual support for minorities. But the minorities you mention, they're people, they're humans, they think critically and vote based off of their thoughts and beliefs just like anyone else does. And whatever their reasons are, they're still voting largely for Democratic candidates and leadership. They're not being "tricked", any more than MAGA voters are being tricked by Trump.

Many GOP posters on this board have used the fact that Trump, for most of his life before politics, was just as much a Democrat as he was a Republican, as a way to sell his policies and ability to lead. I wonder if some of the answers as to why Trump exploded through GOP voters, and changed that party, is that the GOP is the only party where there's enough oxygen to allow for the things in my first paragraph to live and breath. I have no clue if Trump, himself, is a racist. He probably isn't. But he sure has hell has used racist rhetoric to gain favor and notoriety in the GOP party. In the Democratic party, people get disqualified for actions and rhetoric that are a fraction of the level that Trump has openly went to.

Democratic leadership should be doing more for all the various minorities that largely support them, I agree with that. But if you want to try to prove any sort of equivalence on race issues...you're going to struggle.

Trump appealed to white blue collar workers who felt the left was elitists and left them behind and pubs only care about the rich. The establishment was against them. There was a path for him

 

[IUNorth]

Trump appealed to white blue collar workers who felt the left was elitists and left them behind and pubs only care about the rich. The establishment was against them. There was a path for him

Of course...and this is a very tangled web... and racism exists in both parties. But specific to traditionally thought of racism (against minorities)...its only allowed to live and breath in one of the parties. Trump is either actually racist, or he knowingly used racist rhetoric to gain support. That support, unsurprisingly, ended up being GOP support. I'm far from a minority, but I would think that would be hard for me to square up?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Of course...and this is a very tangled web... and racism exists in both parties. But specific to traditionally thought of racism (against minorities)...its only allowed to live and breath in one of the parties. Trump is either actually racist, or he knowingly used racist rhetoric to gain support. That support, unsurprisingly, ended up being GOP support. I'm far from a minority, but I would think that would be hard for me to square up?

Pure nonsense. There is every bit as much racism in the Dem party if not more, blm etc. What’s more no group wants to keep a light on “alleged” racism more than Dems. Racism is policy for the Dem party.

Hell between Obama and Harris we’ll have two of the last four presidents black when the population is 13 percent black. The racism shit is illusory, played and a Dem party crutch

 

[IUNorth]

Pure nonsense. There is every bit as much racism in the Dem party if not more, blm etc. What’s more no group wants to keep a light on “alleged” racism more than Dems. Racism is policy for the Dem party.

Hell between Obama and Harris we’ll have two of the last four presidents black when the population is 13 percent black. The racism shit is illusory, played and a Dem party crutch

Point proven...

What's nonsense? I acknowledged racism in both parties, no? My responses were to Lifelong's references to racism against minorities. I don't know the answers...just providing obvious pathways that lead to reasons why minorities largely support Democratic leadership...DESPITE those leaders often not really coming through for them.

And your last paragraph...really? That's the type of dude you are? You knocked yourself down a few notches in my eyes...

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Point proven...

What's nonsense? I acknowledged racism in both parties, no? My responses were to Lifelong's references to racism against minorities. I don't know the answers...just providing obvious pathways that lead to reasons why minorities largely support Democratic leadership...DESPITE those leaders often not really coming through for them.

And your last paragraph...really? That's the type of dude you are? You knocked yourself down a few notches in my eyes...

What's wrong with the last sentence? It makes a good point. The idea of systemic, anti-black racism is illusory.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Point proven...

What's nonsense? I acknowledged racism in both parties, no? My responses were to Lifelong's references to racism against minorities. I don't know the answers...just providing obvious pathways that lead to reasons why minorities largely support Democratic leadership...DESPITE those leaders often not really coming through for them.

And your last paragraph...really? That's the type of dude you are? You knocked yourself down a few notches in my eyes...

“It is only allowed to live and breathe in one of the parties” your words.

I stand by the last paragraph. It’s a Dem party policy crutch to pander to the black vote. There’s never a call for accountability. Personal responsibility. You know how many protections are in place? Laws? Advantages proffered?

 

[LifelongIU77]

And yet, you support the dumbass fool MAGA leader that championed an obviously racist birther theory...made obvious racist comments on immigrants... and at a minimum, struggled mightily for whatever reason, to distance himself from the horrible humans at Charlottesville.

I actually agree with part of your main premise, that the Democrats are given way too much of a pass on their underwhelming performance and actual support for minorities. But the minorities you mention, they're people, they're humans, they think critically and vote based off of their thoughts and beliefs just like anyone else does. And whatever their reasons are, they're still voting largely for Democratic candidates and leadership. They're not being "tricked", any more than MAGA voters are being tricked by Trump.

Many GOP posters on this board have used the fact that Trump, for most of his life before politics, was just as much a Democrat as he was a Republican, as a way to sell his policies and ability to lead. I wonder if some of the answers as to why Trump exploded through GOP voters, and changed that party, is that the GOP is the only party where there's enough oxygen to allow for the things in my first paragraph to live and breath. I have no clue if Trump, himself, is a racist. He probably isn't. But he sure has hell has used racist rhetoric to gain favor and notoriety in the GOP party. In the Democratic party, people get disqualified for actions and rhetoric that are a fraction of the level that Trump has openly went to.

Democratic leadership should be doing more for all the various minorities that largely support them, I agree with that. But if you want to try to prove any sort of equivalence on race issues...you're going to struggle.

Only dumbasses that are manipulated by a TV believe that.

 

[LifelongIU77]

And you know what is even more crazy, I keep hearing that Trump is far right and that the GOP needs to moderate more and I am just curious as to how much further to the left they expect conservatives to tack? I don't feel I have a true conservative candidate on the ballot again this year. I have a 1980's Democrat vs. a leftist loon. The choice is liberal and left. Trump sits to the left of me on several items. You aren't going to get more of a moderate than that from the right.

I don't think he is some saint, quite the contrary. That being said, I think the hand wringing about him is overblown. I think that is particularly true of all these "Republicans" under Bush and Romney who have an issue with him. I think much more of that is just calculated power posturing. "I would rather he lose and I rule a pauper kingdom then to have to take a back seat to anyone." If that is the case, **** those guys. They aren't real leaders. They are pathetic grifters.

I hate the democratic party much more than I support anyone. I wanted Vivek to be the nominee. The point is...is doesn't even matter. In 4 years when Trump can't run,they will villify the next republican nominee the exact same way the have Trump. Trump has 0 to do with it. The democratic party is evil from top to bottom. Wake up

 

[mcmurtry66]

I hate the democratic party much more than I support anyone. I wanted Vivek to be the nominee. The point is...is doesn't even matter. In 4 years when Trump can't run,they will villify the next republican nominee the exact same way the have Trump. Trump has 0 to do with it. The democratic party is evil from top to bottom. Wake up

Well let’s not get crazy. Trump invites so much of it

 

[IUNorth]

“It is only allowed to live and breathe in one of the parties” your words.

I stand by the last paragraph. It’s a Dem party policy crutch to pander to the black vote. There’s never a call for accountability. Personal responsibility. You know how many protections are in place? Laws? Advantages proffered?

And yet...they're still getting the votes. You're belittling the individual voters that are still voting for Democrats. This whole discussion, on my part, is an attempt to give ideas on why minority voters are still largely voting for Democrats over Republicans...despite Democrats not being as supportive and active representing them as they should be.

As an aside...some of the progressive policies you hate so much, disproportionately benefit minorities. Opens up some touchy subjects, but its fact and reality on the whole. So there's that. So, are they fully "pandering"?

The Dems have their own issues with various forms of racism within their party. BLM, Anti-Semitism, etc... But what they don't have are candidates openly championing the Birther campaign, openly calling immigrants murderers and rapists, candidates that struggle disavowing white supremist groups... So with respect to the specific topic we're talking about... only one party allows those things to live and breath. And that might be a glimpse in to some reasons why the Democrats still dominate specific minority group voting.

Per my first couple sentences...its basically the exact same thing I have done, and non MAGA people do to Trump voters. MAGA people have specific reasons, feelings and emotions on why they support Trump. He portrays himself to be their champion, in some ways he is, in a lot of ways he isn't. He still gets their votes.

 

[LifelongIU77]

And yet...they're still getting the votes. You're belittling the individual voters that are still voting for Democrats. This whole discussion, on my part, is an attempt to give ideas on why minority voters are still largely voting for Democrats over Republicans...despite Democrats not being as supportive and active representing them as they should be.

As an aside...some of the progressive policies you hate so much, disproportionately benefit minorities. Opens up some touchy subjects, but its fact and reality on the whole. So there's that. So, are they fully "pandering"?

The Dems have their own issues with various forms of racism within their party. BLM, Anti-Semitism, etc... But what they don't have are candidates openly championing the Birther campaign, openly calling immigrants murderers and rapists, candidates that struggle disavowing white supremist groups... So with respect to the specific topic we're talking about... only one party allows those things to live and breath. And that might be a glimpse in to some reasons why the Democrats still dominate specific minority group voting.

Per my first couple sentences...its basically the exact same thing I have done, and non MAGA people do to Trump voters. MAGA people have specific reasons, feelings and emotions on why they support Trump. He portrays himself to be their champion, in some ways he is, in a lot of ways he isn't. He still gets their votes.

They are only voting democrat because the corrupt media lies to them. How do you people not see that as a problem. You can't honestly say the media is non-biased.

 

[mcmurtry66]

And yet...they're still getting the votes. You're belittling the individual voters that are still voting for Democrats. This whole discussion, on my part, is an attempt to give ideas on why minority voters are still largely voting for Democrats over Republicans...despite Democrats not being as supportive and active representing them as they should be.

As an aside...some of the progressive policies you hate so much, disproportionately benefit minorities. Opens up some touchy subjects, but its fact and reality on the whole. So there's that. So, are they fully "pandering"?

The Dems have their own issues with various forms of racism within their party. BLM, Anti-Semitism, etc... But what they don't have are candidates openly championing the Birther campaign, openly calling immigrants murderers and rapists, candidates that struggle disavowing white supremist groups... So with respect to the specific topic we're talking about... only one party allows those things to live and breath. And that might be a glimpse in to some reasons why the Democrats still dominate specific minority group voting.

Per my first couple sentences...its basically the exact same thing I have done, and non MAGA people do to Trump voters. MAGA people have specific reasons, feelings and emotions on why they support Trump. He portrays himself to be their champion, in some ways he is, in a lot of ways he isn't. He still gets their votes.

I’ve watched what 75 years of vote pandering and Dem and progressive policies have done to a city. From the 4th largest in America to 280,000. I’ve seen it in city schools. I’ve seen it from the perspective of cops. I’ve seen it from the family court, the drug court, the muni court, and the criminal court. I’ve see it from the United way to the urban league to the employment connection.

Dems speak to blacks so they think they care. Soros DAs and cori bush do not help. They only make things worse. Al sharpton and the rest of the pikers and grifters. Blacks cut their noses off to spite their faces when they vote for these people. They become wards. Dependents. A never ending loop and the city declines

 

[IUCrazy2]

Of course...and this is a very tangled web... and racism exists in both parties. But specific to traditionally thought of racism (against minorities)...its only allowed to live and breath in one of the parties. Trump is either actually racist, or he knowingly used racist rhetoric to gain support. That support, unsurprisingly, ended up being GOP support. I'm far from a minority, but I would think that would be hard for me to square up?

I don't know, I think the Democrats support and spout some pretty racist shit far more often than Republicans do. The whole DEI movement within that party is overtly racist. It is just the preferred racism of the moment and a racism that you personally feel comfortable with so you choose to overlook it.

Trump's "racism" as you are claiming it was saying "Hey, they are ripping down Lee right now but they will be ripping down Washington and Jefferson eventually and people making that argument do have a point...." And he specifically disavowed the purely racially motivated people in Charlottesville and his point about Washington, Jefferson, and others was proven correct. His message disavowing "didn't land" because the Democrats have more Propaganda networks available to them and they flat out lied about what he said with a selective edit. Fox News may be the biggest but the combined voices of the majority of the others shouted the truth on that one down.

As to immigration, look up polling on opinions on illegal immigration. Trump holds the majority opinion. That is so much the case that Kamala is having to run on building the wall, something she is lying about and will never do, but a position she has to take because the majority of the country views these waves of people coming in as an invasion. And are there good people there? Yeah, but there are an awful lot of shitty people mixed in with them. 60% of people want to crack down. That's a whole lot of racists.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Well let’s not get crazy. Trump invites so much of it

He does, but he does have a bit of a point. They were lining DeSantis up as the next "Great Satan" when it was looking like he had a legitimate chance of being the nominee. It was the same argument and it was coming from many of the same places, both from the left and right.

ETA: And some of that from the MAGA people themselves. I find myself frustrated with voters on both sides of this Trump thing. Neither of them appear to be as interested in advancing the ball as they are in being in control of the party, to the point of marginalizing the party just to say, "I told you so" and retain power. When Aloha says, "We had a better choice" I agree, we didn't get it this time. When a DanC or you says, "Suck it up and vote for the least worst option from a policy perspective," I also agree. Both sides are digging in so much they are losing the plot.

 

[IUNorth]

I’ve watched what 75 years of vote pandering and Dem and progressive policies have done to a city. From the 4th largest in America to 280,000. I’ve seen it in city schools. I’ve seen it from the perspective of cops. I’ve seen it from the family court, the drug court, the muni court, and the criminal court. I’ve see it from the United way to the urban league to the employment connection.

Dems speak to blacks so they think they care. Soros DAs and cori bush do not help. They only make things worse. Al sharpton and the rest of the pikers and grifters. Blacks cut their noses off to spite their faces when they vote for these people. They become wards. Dependents. A never ending loop and the city declines

I assume you're a white dude...

Maybe reach out and ask some black people, or hispanics, why they continue to vote for Democrats then? Their answers might surprise you? I'm a white dude, I certainly don't fully know the reasons. Just throwing out some possibilities.

You guys are completely missing my point. You're belittling enormous groups of people as if they're being "tricked".

And then in your next breath you're going to try to explain to non MAGA people why Trump is still supported.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I assume you're a white dude...

Maybe reach out and ask some black people, or hispanics, why they continue to vote for Democrats then? Their answers might surprise you? I'm a white dude, I certainly don't fully know the reasons. Just throwing out some possibilities.

You guys are completely missing my point. You're belittling enormous groups of people as if they're being "tricked".

And then in your next breath you're going to try to explain to non MAGA people why Trump is still supported.

I can tell you that within the Dem party you have grifters and vote panderers that rely on the black vote. It’s a message that has to comport to the condition of certain voters.

I can also tell you within the Dem party and at the grassroots level there are countless people who are well intentioned and truly believe in progressive policies. They simply care. And that population knows they care and believes in them. But it is again like a social worker mentality. I can’t tell you how many boards I’ve sat on where when times get tough you hear let’s get rid of Sara in development. No. She’s trying to get us money. Yeah but Debby is on the streets providing direct program services. We can’t get rid of her. And Sara is pushed out.

Bad policies that are perpetuated expecting different results

 

[Ohio Guy]

He does, but he does have a bit of a point. They were lining DeSantis up as the next "Great Satan" when it was looking like he had a legitimate chance of being the nominee. It was the same argument and it was coming from many of the same places, both from the left and right.

ETA: And some of that from the MAGA people themselves. I find myself frustrated with voters on both sides of this Trump thing. Neither of them appear to be as interested in advancing the ball as they are in being in control of the party, to the point of marginalizing the party just to say, "I told you so" and retain power. When Aloha says, "We had a better choice" I agree, we didn't get it this time. When a DanC or you says, "Suck it up and vote for the least worst option from a policy perspective," I also agree. Both sides are digging in so much they are losing the plot.

I get what you're saying, but I think vilifying your opponent is par for the course in politics to some degree. It's amplified with Trump, but not without reason. I think once he's out of the political spectrum, things will normalize more. Granted, 'normalize' is relative here.

 

[IUNorth]

I can tell you that within the Dem party you have grifters and vote panderers that rely on the black vote. It’s a message that has to comport to the condition of certain voters.

I can also tell you within the Dem party and at the grassroots level there are countless people who are well intentioned and truly believe in progressive policies. They simply care. And that population knows they care and believes in them. But it is again like a social worker mentality. I can’t tell you how many boards I’ve sat on where when times get tough you hear let’s get rid of Sara in development. No. She’s trying to get us money. Yeah but Debby is on the streets providing direct program services. We can’t get rid of her. And Sara is pushed out.

Bad policies that are perpetuated expecting different results

Oh I'm sure there are. My specific argument, and one that you and others have changed to different points and different arguments... knowing the things you say are happening and are true, why are black and Hispanic voters still largely voting Democrat?

And when you just keep responding with "they're being pandered to"...do you not understand that you're belittling those black and hispanic voters, by characterizing them as more easily duped, more impressionable, more susceptible to pandering...etc...??

Same thing the other way with MAGA voters.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Oh I'm sure there are. My specific argument, and one that you and others have changed to different points and different arguments... knowing the things you say are happening and are true, why are black and Hispanic voters still largely voting Democrat?

And when you just keep responding with "they're being pandered to"...do you not understand that you're belittling those black and hispanic voters, by characterizing them as more easily duped, more impressionable, more susceptible to pandering...etc...??

Same thing the other way with MAGA voters.

I already told you. They think they care about them and their policies will help them. They don’t learn from history. 75 years here

 

[IUCrazy2]

I get what you're saying, but I think vilifying your opponent is par for the course in politics to some degree. It's amplified with Trump, but not without reason. I think once he's out of the political spectrum, things will normalize more. Granted, 'normalize' is relative here.

I guess we will see. I think this is the new normal....which is kind of the same as the old normal.

I mean....



This is the type of guy everyone is pining for now. How much you want to bet that 10 years down the line it will be, "Yeah, Trump was an asshole but even he didn't want to touch Social Security" or fill in the blank on that last one. Every new person is the next big boogeyman, both sides. My side does it too, "Well even Clinton didn't....." And there is some truth to it.

I just think if you put an (R) after the name, people who are more inclined to be a (D) are going to have a problem with them, as you basically say, because "politics".

 

[stollcpa]

And you know what is even more crazy, I keep hearing that Trump is far right and that the GOP needs to moderate more and I am just curious as to how much further to the left they expect conservatives to tack? I don't feel I have a true conservative candidate on the ballot again this year. I have a 1980's Democrat vs. a leftist loon. The choice is liberal and left. Trump sits to the left of me on several items. You aren't going to get more of a moderate than that from the right.

I don't think he is some saint, quite the contrary. That being said, I think the hand wringing about him is overblown. I think that is particularly true of all these "Republicans" under Bush and Romney who have an issue with him. I think much more of that is just calculated power posturing. "I would rather he lose and I rule a pauper kingdom then to have to take a back seat to anyone." If that is the case, **** those guys. They aren't real leaders. They are pathetic grifters.

Fck the old guard pubs. What exactly have the Bush clan, Romney and McCain factions done for the country? Romney was a pussy and let Obama run over him. All the Bush clan did was keep democrats out of the presidency. They need to enjoy their millions in retirement and shut the fck up.

 

[IUNorth]

I already told you. They think they care about them and their policies will help them. They don’t learn from history. 75 years here

OK... so an entire millions strong set of voters are 75 years in to this, and they're still "falling for it"...

I contend that since its been going on for so long, that its accepted and baked in to the equation, and they're voting Democrat despite it.

And I gave some possible reasons for that. I can see how they might be uncomfortable for a white, male, GOP person like you and others that responded with interesting counter theories.

Maybe you're right though? For the GOP sake, I hope all those blacks "figure it out" some day.

 

[stollcpa]

And you know what is even more crazy, I keep hearing that Trump is far right and that the GOP needs to moderate more and I am just curious as to how much further to the left they expect conservatives to tack? I don't feel I have a true conservative candidate on the ballot again this year. I have a 1980's Democrat vs. a leftist loon. The choice is liberal and left. Trump sits to the left of me on several items. You aren't going to get more of a moderate than that from the right.

I don't think he is some saint, quite the contrary. That being said, I think the hand wringing about him is overblown. I think that is particularly true of all these "Republicans" under Bush and Romney who have an issue with him. I think much more of that is just calculated power posturing. "I would rather he lose and I rule a pauper kingdom then to have to take a back seat to anyone." If that is the case, **** those guys. They aren't real leaders. They are pathetic grifters.

Fck the old guard pubs. What exactly have the Bush clan, Romney and McCain factions done for the country?

My department has 15 locations and we frequently do interviews for prospective employees. The only ones I have to sit in on are with my Managers who have zero idea how to do one and quite honestly are not good enough to do it or make an educated decision. This is basically my take on this interview, she needs help and support because otherwise it would be a fail.

I'm just amazed at how MSM has been able to spin this to look like she is a qualified candidate give all we know, or in her case do not know? Just shows the stupidity of a vast majority of American people IMO.

Why do you think communist dictators control the media in their kingdoms? Most of the media now are just an arm of the democrat party.

 

[mcmurtry66]

OK... so an entire millions strong set of voters are 75 years in to this, and they're still "falling for it"...

I contend that since its been going on for so long, that its accepted and baked in to the equation, and they're voting Democrat despite it.

And I gave some possible reasons for that. I can see how they might be uncomfortable for a white, male, GOP person like you and others that responded with interesting counter theories.

Maybe you're right though? For the GOP sake, I hope all those blacks "figure it out" some day.

75 years related to my own city

 

[VanPastorMan]

It’s “milquetoast” and you know you don’t care what she says.

Ok, perhaps I misspelled the word. I'll take your word for it. But you are wrong in that I do care about what Kamala Harris says. She could be the next President. So when she says she wants to do a mandatory gun buy back program I think about what the country will look like when she sends people with guns to get American's guns. It would be a very hard time for us as a people. When she talks about price controls I think about how in the past when countries did that and it lead to economic ruin and shortages of food and products. There are a tons of things I listen to concerning her and I don't like it one bit.

 

[twenty02]

And you know what is even more crazy, I keep hearing that Trump is far right and that the GOP needs to moderate more and I am just curious as to how much further to the left they expect conservatives to tack? I don't feel I have a true conservative candidate on the ballot again this year. I have a 1980's Democrat vs. a leftist loon. The choice is liberal and left. Trump sits to the left of me on several items. You aren't going to get more of a moderate than that from the right.

I don't think he is some saint, quite the contrary. That being said, I think the hand wringing about him is overblown. I think that is particularly true of all these "Republicans" under Bush and Romney who have an issue with him. I think much more of that is just calculated power posturing. "I would rather he lose and I rule a pauper kingdom then to have to take a back seat to anyone." If that is the case, **** those guys. They aren't real leaders. They are pathetic grifters.

Trump is a turd that won't flush. Until he's gone for good there will be no reset and healing.

 

[Ohio Guy]

Trump is a turd that won't flush. Until he's gone for good there will be no reset and healing.

This is absolute fact.

And he'll probably live to 102 and complain about EVERY election being stolen between now and then. And then when he passes peacefully in his sleep, the MAGA crowd will STILL claim his death was some grand conspiracy plotted by 'the left.'

 

[Univee2]

And you know what is even more crazy, I keep hearing that Trump is far right and that the GOP needs to moderate more and I am just curious as to how much further to the left they expect conservatives to tack? I don't feel I have a true conservative candidate on the ballot again this year. I have a 1980's Democrat vs. a leftist loon. The choice is liberal and left. Trump sits to the left of me on several items. You aren't going to get more of a moderate than that from the right.

I don't think he is some saint, quite the contrary. That being said, I think the hand wringing about him is overblown. I think that is particularly true of all these "Republicans" under Bush and Romney who have an issue with him. I think much more of that is just calculated power posturing. "I would rather he lose and I rule a pauper kingdom then to have to take a back seat to anyone." If that is the case, **** those guys. They aren't real leaders. They are pathetic grifters.

There was mention several days ago that two hundred or so former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers and advisers were going to VOTE for Kamalalala. Not just not vote for Trump but actually vote for the abomination that is Harris/Walz.

When all of this Trump world crap is behind us these people need not reapply for conservative re-credentializing. When they were needed they fled and crossed enemy lines. When they want to be welcomed back they should be barred from ever having anything to do with post-Trump-era conservatism and the Republican Party. May they try to exist, sightless and powerless and hungry in the desert.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Trump is a turd that won't flush. Until he's gone for good there will be no reset and healing.

100 percent.