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Unsafe at no speed

Oh my god. You think gang bangers and the rest responsible for violent crime are waiting on permits.

And I am all for more regulation. Guns should be extremely difficult to get
It makes it much tougher to confront people with guns.

Earlier someone (maybe you) was whining that we don't have stop and frisk. Never part of the law in this state to my knowledge, there is very little threat of anyone being stopped if seen with a gun.
 
It makes it much tougher to confront people with guns.

Earlier someone (maybe you) was whining that we don't have stop and frisk. Never part of the law in this state to my knowledge, there is very little threat of anyone being stopped if seen with a gun.
i don't know the law in indiana. most stop and frisk laws require the cop to have a reasonable suspicion that the guy is in the midst of committing a crime or had just done so. in their latest iteration they aren't very useful
 
You intend to keep all accused felons behind bars until trial?
that's not how it works. you are so far out of your depth trying to engage me on this topic that it's laughable. that you write with arrogance despite being uniformed and lacking knowledge is grating in a way that i've rarely seen and understand why brad left. you need to be placed on ignore. And don’t vote anymore. Shut up and dribble.
 
but guess what now i do. it took two seconds. criminal activity may be occurring and the person may be armed and/or dangerous. so again "may be occurring."

But does @Bloom. believe community policing policies like stop and frisk or “broken windows” policing work?
 
but guess what now i do. it took two seconds. criminal activity may be occurring and the person may be armed and/or dangerous. so again "may be occurring."
Stop and frisk is not the answer. I know Giuliani did it, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned from his time as mayor as far as law enforcement. But it’s highly unconstitutional and possibly discriminatory.

“May be occurring” is way to vague to be any kind of legal standard.

The presumption of the state should be that citizens are carrying their firearms legally.
 
that's not how it works. you are so far out of your depth trying to engage me on this topic that it's laughable. that you write with arrogance despite being uniformed and lacking knowledge is grating in a way that i've rarely seen and understand why brad left. you need to be placed on ignore. And don’t vote anymore. Shut up and dribble.
He’s like the annoying kid at school, if you just ignore him he’ll go away & back to loving himself & HS boys since that’s all he’s got. A pity he can’t be put on ignore for real…
 
Stop and frisk is not the answer. I know Giuliani did it, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned from his time as mayor as far as law enforcement. But it’s highly unconstitutional and possibly discriminatory.

“May be occurring” is way to vague to be any kind of legal standard.

The presumption of the state should be that citizens are carrying their firearms legally.
I understand the constitutional arguments and profiling etc.
Stop and frisk is not the answer. I know Giuliani did it, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned from his time as mayor as far as law enforcement. But it’s highly unconstitutional and possibly discriminatory.

“May be occurring” is way to vague to be any kind of legal standard.

The presumption of the state should be that citizens are carrying their firearms legally.
that stuff is difficult. Stop and frisk also erodes trust which is never a good thing. On top of con law issues and the heavy public burden
 
Stop and frisk is not the answer. I know Giuliani did it, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned from his time as mayor as far as law enforcement. But it’s highly unconstitutional and possibly discriminatory.

“May be occurring” is way to vague to be any kind of legal standard.

The presumption of the state should be that citizens are carrying their firearms legally.
Except it’s not really discriminatory, it’s statistically accurate.
 
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Stop and frisk is not the answer. I know Giuliani did it, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned from his time as mayor as far as law enforcement. But it’s highly unconstitutional and possibly discriminatory.

“May be occurring” is way to vague to be any kind of legal standard.

The presumption of the state should be that citizens are carrying their firearms legally.
I think “may be occurring” is too broad but probably loose enough that if the police find something on you it will stick. Weed is still illegal in IN so if you reek of weed and the cops stop you, well.

I don’t necessarily like stop and frisk but you institute it at Castleton Mall or Broad Ripple in Indy and the crime will drop. Or move somewhere else. Policing in America has always been about protecting private property. We should do that.
 
Except it’s not really discriminatory, it’s statistically accurate.
If 90% of the violent crime is happening in 10% of the geographical area. I’m fine with us allocating 90% of the patrol units to that area.

I’m not fine with said patrols stopping someone walking down the street with a firearm if they wouldn’t do so in an affluent neighborhood.

Why should a law enforcement officer ever stop someone because they suspect they have a firearm?

Why doesn’t government just allocate resources effectively like someone would be tasked to do in the private sector?
 
Well that’s different than this:

But you know that.
Policy drives decision making. If a policy is passed that you can stop someone if you suspect they have a gun, then police officers are going to stop people in violent neighborhoods more often. There are racial implications there but it isn’t necessarily racist.

Obviously.

The point is that police should never be stopping someone for carrying a firearm within the law anywhere.

Any perceived discrimination was likely a result of bad government policy.
 
Policy drives decision making. If a policy is passed that you can stop someone if you suspect they have a gun, then police officers are going to stop people in violent neighborhoods more often. There are racial implications there but it isn’t necessarily racist.

Obviously.

The point is that police should never be stopping someone for carrying a firearm within the law anywhere.

Any perceived discrimination was likely a result of bad government policy.
Oh I don’t think they’ll stop them for having a gun or even suspecting so. At least not in any official documentation of the event. Sure, it’s a wink wink nod nod kinda thing but in a time where you can carry guns damn near anytime/anywhere/anyway, some concessions must be made.

We should also end the WOD.
 
Indianapolis raised their police budget, and crime continued.

Soooooo...maybe traditional spending budgets isn't really the differentiator.

Bloom, good point about Indy and it's Demo mayor and city council raising the budget for public safety at least twice since Floyd.

Would like a link about other cities under Dem and Pub politicians since Floyd as to whether defunding the police is actually happening or is merely a political talking point without merit.
 
Bloom, good point about Indy and it's Demo mayor and city council raising the budget for public safety at least twice since Floyd.

Would like a link about other cities under Dem and Pub politicians since Floyd as to whether defunding the police is actually happening or is merely a political talking point without merit.
It happened all over the country in the wake of Floyd in 2020. Budget cuts. Reallocation. Etc. Since then budgets have been restored/increases. Defunding police was a progressive woke reflexive action. It wasn’t a mainstream Dem belief. Biden supported cops. That said the number of cops is low all over the country. So budget doesn’t mean a lot if thousands don’t want the job anymore.
 
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Oh I don’t think they’ll stop them for having a gun or even suspecting so. At least not in any official documentation of the event. Sure, it’s a wink wink nod nod kinda thing but in a time where you can carry guns damn near anytime/anywhere/anyway, some concessions must be made.

We should also end the WOD.
So your assumption is that law enforcement officers should be perfect?
That they shouldn’t have any kind of human instinct to be more alert/ responsive to possible criminal behavior in jurisdictions that have more crime?

What’s it like living in the world of black and white where policy doesn’t drive decision making?
 
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Bloom, good point about Indy and it's Demo mayor and city council raising the budget for public safety at least twice since Floyd.

Would like a link about other cities under Dem and Pub politicians since Floyd as to whether defunding the police is actually happening or is merely a political talking point without merit.
Defunding the police is not only an actual policy in many places but also a metaphorical one for a range of initiatives to restrict police authority and eliminate immunity protections. This flows from the general lack of respect for cops in the wake of George Floyd.
 
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Stop and frisk is not the answer. I know Giuliani did it, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned from his time as mayor as far as law enforcement. But it’s highly unconstitutional and possibly discriminatory.

“May be occurring” is way to vague to be any kind of legal standard.

The presumption of the state should be that citizens are carrying their firearms legally.
Terry stops are constitutional,.

The discrimination part is a false flag. The fact is black kids are shooting black kids at alarming rates. We need to address that. Stopping and frisking black young men roaming around in the dead of night is ugly, but necessary to save live and stop ruining other lives.
 
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The point is that police should never be stopping someone for carrying a firearm within the law anywhere
Disagree. Legal carry doesn’t mean the subject can carry. Once stopped the officer can check for other restrictions on carrying such as restraining orders, red flag law orders, felony convictions, parole or probation, and more.
 
So your assumption is that law enforcement officers should be perfect?
That they shouldn’t have any kind of human instinct to be more alert/ responsive to possible criminal behavior in jurisdictions that have more crime?

What’s it like living in the world of black and white where policy doesn’t drive decision making?

GG, your post IMO explains why many communities find it difficult to hire good candidates for law enforcement vacancies even when starting salaries are raised.

When some of us suggested shifting funds to hire social workers to handle some of the duties which cops are asked to assume such as domestic disputes and non threatening mental problems we were accused of wanting to refund the police.
 
Stopping and frisking black young men roaming around in the dead of night is ugly, but necessary to save live and stop ruining other lives.
No, it’s not. Humans respond to incentives. Even the dumbest and most violent of us. Even if it means a 1 year for minimum for shoplifting and 10 years for a carjacking.

Giuliani’s brilliance was in sentencing guidelines.
 
No, it’s not. Humans respond to incentives. Even the dumbest and most violent of us. Even if it means a 1 year for minimum for shoplifting and 10 years for a carjacking.

Giuliani’s brilliance was in sentencing guidelines.
Giuliani’s brilliance was in getting an entire community to buy in and row together. Here and so many other places businesses, politicians, neighborhood organizations don’t get along
 
No, it’s not. Humans respond to incentives. Even the dumbest and most violent of us. Even if it means a 1 year for minimum for shoplifting and 10 years for a carjacking.

Giuliani’s brilliance was in sentencing guidelines.
We need to get guns off the street. I am A firm advocate of mandatory jail for gun possession while committing a felony. I also am all in on getting guns out of the hands of youngsters who haven’t committed a crime, Some kid pulled a gun at my grandson’s HS football game Friday. This is f*cking nuts.
 
GG, your post IMO explains why many communities find it difficult to hire good candidates for law enforcement vacancies even when starting salaries are raised.

When some of us suggested shifting funds to hire social workers to handle some of the duties which cops are asked to assume such as domestic disputes and non threatening mental problems we were accused of wanting to refund the police.
Domestics are unfortunate but flammable situations. You need someone trained in the use of deadly or violent force there.

However, domestics, even in the most violent of neighborhoods, make up a small fraction of the violent crime rate.

It’s hit and run. You don’t have the resources to police that constitutionally l, especially if you don’t allocate resources effectively, so you need to make the punishment severe.
 
Unsafe At Any No Speed. You got the title wrong, and Nader's principle. And the name of the car. It was the Corvair, not the Covair.

Nader's principle was the US car companies resisted any safety improvements in their automobiles, no matter how little the cost. His purpose was to use the marketplace to change consumers' buying habits. Nobody had to buy his book. But it became a best seller. In the marketplace. Why is that?

Nader's principle was the underlying premise of the plaintiff's case in the Pinto matter, some 15 years later. Plaintiff's lawyers proved it too, with a Ford internal memo that said that Ford could have prevented 180 deaths and 180 serious injuries by a different design of the fuel system that would have cost $11 (Ford's estimate). The greed shown by Ford's internal memo made for good press in the early 80s.

Why don't exploding batteries get the same press? They do. But upon a search online of "exploding batteries deaths" reveals the emphasis is on deaths from batteries exploding on e-bikes.

Your complaint really isn't about exploding batteries, but rather about a perceived difference in news coverage. Why is that?

I think your purpose is just to bitch some more about "liberals" and the "media". You're flat out wrong: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/explod...hium-batteries-are-confounding-fire-rcna65739.
Point taken about the name.

my purpose is what I said it was. You can read it as you like.
 
but guess what now i do. it took two seconds. criminal activity may be occurring and the person may be armed and/or dangerous. so again "may be occurring."
Because we all know cops just stumble onto people about ready to use their weapons. Pretty much guaranteed in this state a gun isn't in question until it's used in a crime.
 
"Retention and recruiting is a national problem," Boylan said "Agencies, large and small are facing officer shortages, and the IMPD is no different."


It's a thankless job, and to be blunt, now they take it from both sides. Why would they want to work in a city whose state is a free for all in regards to gun control?
Oh god, here we go. Always comes to gun control doesn't it? AYFKM?
 
Policy drives decision making. If a policy is passed that you can stop someone if you suspect they have a gun, then police officers are going to stop people in violent neighborhoods more often. There are racial implications there but it isn’t necessarily racist.

Obviously.

The point is that police should never be stopping someone for carrying a firearm within the law anywhere.

Any perceived discrimination was likely a result of bad government policy.
Why not? They can stop you for driving a car, can't they?

They can stop you while you're walking down the street late at night, can't they?
 
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Stop and frisk is not the answer. I know Giuliani did it, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned from his time as mayor as far as law enforcement. But it’s highly unconstitutional and possibly discriminatory.

“May be occurring” is way to vague to be any kind of legal standard.

The presumption of the state should be that citizens are carrying their firearms legally.
The presumption of the state should be that citizens of well regulated militias carry their firearms within the laws of their regulation, but we have political cowards.
 
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We need to get guns off the street. I am A firm advocate of mandatory jail for gun possession while committing a felony. I also am all in on getting guns out of the hands of youngsters who haven’t committed a crime, Some kid pulled a gun at my grandson’s HS football game Friday. This is f*cking nuts.
We need to get guns off the street. That doesn't start by allowing anyone, specifically, to carry guns beyond their property. We have too many people who view this issue binary. There is no law that would immediately eliminate guns on the street, so they scoff at any regulation that would slowly curb it.

I would view buying and selling guns similar to buying and selling cars. I realize there is no way to legislate against those intent to commit crimes, and law abiding citizens often, directly or passively, bear the burden of any laws, but adding layers of accountability to gun ownership will slowly curb gun violence. It will make purchase and storage more accountable. It will make resale more accountable.
 
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