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Unsafe at no speed

No it’s not. I’m decrying rent-seeking and mandates and other bennies intended to alter consumer behavior. The history of public roads is not that. It was grass roots bottom up government, which is what we think is good government. Today we have top-down government run by Rich Guys North of Richmond.
Let me quote you, "like the powerful Chicago Motor Club pushed for paved roads as well as legislation giving motorists road priority over horses and pedestrians". "Powerful Chicago Motor Club pushed ...". I bet the people who were blacksmiths, who bred horses, who were paid to clean up cities after horses, saw this as elites using their power to lobby.
 
EasUOTE="IUNorth, post: 3836207, member: 3548"]
Without spending a ton of time researching this...I would venture a strong educated guess that other technical breakthroughs also came with early side effect risks. Steam engines, combustible engines, indoor plumbing...I'm sure all of them had nasty side effects early on, and there was obviously a very fevered push to adopt these new technologies that seemed, at the time, to be better than the current alternatives.

That's where we are with EVs. I think where there's a major difference is these days, things like these, get put in to political conversations much more so than they would have back then. And then, obvious progress start
s to get questioned.

I know Dems tend to push EV technology more than Pubs do...but I honestly don't get the polarization with it. There's a ton of industry potential with non fossil fuel technologies. Why dig in so much? If I'm an "Exxon" like company, I embrace it. Figure out how to win with it, figure out how we can improve our current technologies with it, for it, etc...

I can't help but think that 100 or so years from now there will be a History Channel episode of How EVs built America...and this whole argument will sound like early arguments against electricity, cereal making methods, etc...

It might be brainwashing? But is it really brainwashing when the direction is obvious, and right?
[/QUOTE]

IUN, don't give up on CoH as we all march into the future.

He mentioned recently about once owning a hybrid, thus he isn't completely against at least taking a small step into the future :).

Have to laugh at myself as I refer to electricity and EVs as being futuristic. Heck electric eels have been around over seven million years so electricity isn't exactly new.
 
I listed 7 areas that are worsening by the day. I blame Democrats either in large part, or entirely. All except the border are in the hands of deep blue city government. The border is a mess because of the Biden/Harris/Mayorkas brain trust.

If you wanna advance any argument why the GOP is responsible for any of that, I’m all ears.
A little presumptuous to demand other people advance arguments when you've only made claims yourself.
 
Let me quote you, "like the powerful Chicago Motor Club pushed for paved roads as well as legislation giving motorists road priority over horses and pedestrians". "Powerful Chicago Motor Club pushed ...". I bet the people who were blacksmiths, who bred horses, who were paid to clean up cities after horses, saw this as elites using their power to lobby.
Blacksmiths and stable owners sold gasoline.

I don’t get your point.
 
Who really believes there is zero emissions? It still produces far less emissions and those which are much less carcinogenic.

https://www.wri.org/insights/net-zero-ghg-emissions-questions-answered


It's like people ranting over Biden saying no one would get COVID with the vaccine. No one who mattered really believed that, as the CDC presented its efficacy rate.
For openers, the United States Secretary of Energy.

 
If your point is thatv Democrat Liberal brainwashing is worse than the OP, you are correct.

Democrats have made parts of many of our great cities shitholes.
Democrats have destroyed our southern border
Democrats are driving down education outcomes for minorities.
Democrats have destroyed retail in some locations.
Democrats have increased crime in some locations.
Democrats have Increased drug use in some locations.
Democrats are increasing inequalities all over.

But millions vote for Democrats because they think Democrats will improve their lives.

65-75% of people think the country is on the wrong track, but they vote for the wrong tack. That’s brainwashing.
If you truly believe this crap you posted, you should take immediate action to get Trump and his clones out of the Republican party and replace them with reasonable people that can behave in a bipartisan manner.

Yes, they exist. There were two on the Jan. 6 committee, and it looks like Georgia has at least 4-5 reasonable Republicans that can work with Democrats but would never vote for either a Democrat or a Trump-like Republican.

That would be a start. You may not like Biden but he has already used bipartisan efforts to achieve legislation he wants. Trump, McCarthy, Jimmy Jordan, Bobo, MTG etc. can't/won't do that.

Or you can keep looking crazy, blaming Democrats for everything since the beginning of time and watch Trump lose once again despite the blind worship he receives from your Republican party.
 
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Finish your bunker and go on about your life.

Often times political decisions impacted that list above. Acting like it's one party alone is high level stupid.

You're a one trick pony.
Exactly. Here’s a good article on how republican state legislators block democratic city leaders from enacting laws like firearm regulations or local minimum wage or sick leave ordinances.

 
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Exactly. Here’s a good article on how republican state legislators block democratic city leaders from enacting laws like firearm regulations or local minimum wage or sick leave ordinances.


And now, removing Confederate monuments is being blocked by states.
 
If your point is thatv Democrat Liberal brainwashing is worse than the OP, you are correct.

Democrats have made parts of many of our great cities shitholes.
Democrats have destroyed our southern border
Democrats are driving down education outcomes for minorities.
Democrats have destroyed retail in some locations.
Democrats have increased crime in some locations.
Democrats have Increased drug use in some locations.
Democrats are increasing inequalities all over.

But millions vote for Democrats because they think Democrats will improve their lives.

65-75% of people think the country is on the wrong track, but they vote for the wrong tack. That’s brainwashing.
progressives are the worst thing that can happen to a city. just a total cancer on cities. not really dems. progressives.
 
If you truly believe this crap you posted, you should take immediate action to get Trump and his clones out of the Republican party and replace them with reasonable people that can behave in a bipartisan manner.

Yes, they exist. There were two on the Jan. 6 committee, and it looks like Georgia has at least 4-5 reasonable Republicans that can work with Democrats but would never vote for either a Democrat or a Trump-like Republican.

That would be a start. You may not like Biden but he has already used bipartisan efforts to achieve legislation he wants. Trump, McCarthy, Jimmy Jordan, Bobo, MTG etc. can't/won't do that.

Or you can keep looking crazy, blaming Democrats for everything since the beginning of time and watch Trump lose once again despite the blind worship he receives from your Republican party.
You’re f#cking idiot if you think fiscal conservatives need to be bipartisan with a bunch of socialist democrats who can’t do basic math. Also, Trump sucks giant donkey balls because he spends like a Democrat. He’s never been fiscally conservative his entire life. Biden blows a#% chunks as well.
 
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You’re f#cking idiot if you think fiscal conservatives need to be bipartisan with a bunch of socialist idiots who can’t do basic math. Also, Trump sucks giant donkey balls because he spends like a Democrat. He’s never been fiscally conservative his entire life. Biden blows a#% chunks as well.
Biden is no better than trump. He. Needs to go too
 
crap you posted
Even Democratic mayors in NYC, Chicago, and other places are bitching about the border. That mess is 100% on Biden.

If you want to point out any GOP, policy that has taken one of the worlds great cities, San Francisco, into the shithole it is today, let’s hear it. Even federal workers wont go to work in the federal building. People have to hold their noses to walk around Midtown Manhattan. The disgraceful abandonment of good education for blacks in many cities is not because of the GOP.

Id love to engage in a serious discussion about how these issues are getting worse, but the discussion would be one-sided. It’s the product of one-sided Democrat policy.

And the strangest thing? Is you. Bringing Trump up as a factor. You are as bad as posters like @TheOriginalHappyGoat, @Bloom., or @IU_Hickory and a few others whose only response is about yours truly.
 
Exactly. Here’s a good article on how republican state legislators block democratic city leaders from enacting laws like firearm regulations or local minimum wage or sick leave ordinances.

I can’t read the link. But most Democratic gun control measures do not focus on the urban gun crime problem. They mostly focus on white bubbas and buying AR’s. We need stop and frisk and mandatory jail for use of a gun in any crime. Instead we get no cash bail and prosecutorial leniency. I’m not sure what minimum wages or sick leave has to do with these problems.
 
Even Democratic mayors in NYC, Chicago, and other places are bitching about the border. That mess is 100% on Biden.

If you want to point out any GOP, policy that has taken one of the worlds great cities, San Francisco, into the shithole it is today, let’s hear it. Even federal workers wont go to work in the federal building. People have to hold their noses to walk around Midtown Manhattan. The disgraceful abandonment of good education for blacks in many cities is not because of the GOP.

Id love to engage in a serious discussion about how these issues are getting worse, but the discussion would be one-sided. It’s the product of one-sided Democrat policy.

And the strangest thing? Is you. Bringing Trump up as a factor. You are as bad as posters like @TheOriginalHappyGoat, @Bloom., or @IU_Hickory and a few others whose only response is about yours truly.
The reason we post about you is because you suck and your posts aren't worth responding to. Everything is just "Democrats are ruining the country" and it's almost always based on some fear porn, like your dumb ass post about Granholm above. I have no doubt you genuinely believe every Democrat is the caricature you picture in your head, but that is the reason we can't have a serious discussion with you. It's not us, it's you.
 
The reason we post about you is because you suck and your posts aren't worth responding to. Everything is just "Democrats are ruining the country" and it's almost always based on some fear porn, like your dumb ass post about Granholm above. I have no doubt you genuinely believe every Democrat is the caricature you picture in your head, but that is the reason we can't have a serious discussion with you. It's not us, it's you.
Wait, what? This is, among other things, a political forum. Why are you surprised I say democrats are the primary cause of many of the significant problems we have? If my posts are so bad, don’t respond, but you do respond, in a decidedly silly and juvenile manner. What’s wrong with the Granholmm link? She frequently says that EV’s are zero emissions. That’s one example which bloom asked me to provide.
 
I can’t read the link. But most Democratic gun control measures do not focus on the urban gun crime problem. They mostly focus on white bubbas and buying AR’s. We need stop and frisk and mandatory jail for use of a gun in any crime. Instead we get no cash bail and prosecutorial leniency. I’m not sure what minimum wages or sick leave has to do with these problems.
Minimum wage has to do with the homeless problem. There are people that actually work, at minimum wage jobs, and are part of the homeless population.
 
But most Democratic gun control measures do not focus on the urban gun crime problem. They mostly focus on white bubbas and buying AR’s
If you had to guess, which of these two classes are more probable to exact justice on an immoral government? Which of the two groups would you suspect to be the danger to the immoral government? With that answer, would you agree that the attempted laws to repress a specific group, aligns with those (politicians) that would benefit the most, if the constitutional loving fat AR owning redneck, was in jail?

It's obvious that law and order is that last thing that urban democratic drug pushers want. They are in Nirvana right now. They fvcking GET PAID to be released from jail. It's like a money laundering scheme from the dims. "lets release then WITH cash, to start a new lock war, sell more death and overwhelm law enforcement. It's ALMOST....... hehe........ like it's all planned out. hmmmmm
 
You need to stay away from YouTube.
Well unsafe at any speed was a hit job, of sorts. Nader made the corvair the poster child to require Govt. regulation for vehicle safety. (The Chevette May have been worse).

Ford earned the Pinto problems, publicized by trial lawyers and then 60-minutes. … Fuel leaks after most vehicle crashes are unacceptable. NHTSA Regulations have a mandated cost/benefit … 27 lives ends up being a big benefit number. (Acts of Congress aren’t required to comply).

I will agree with CO. in that lithium battery fires are a real concern. Cheap Chinese batteries may not be helping. Ten years from now let‘s see how frequent fires in old batteries are.
 
There have been quite a few somber articles about this.

I'm thinking of starting and copyrighting a new national series like NASCAR for the EV's.
NASCTR. National Stock Car Toaster Racing. I suspect there will be some RESISTANCE, only Amplified by the capacitance of those wound up into the sport.
We will not allow any bath tub sponsors, that would potentially fatal.
 
I mention EV’s because they are an excellent example of national brainwashing. . The market is heavily dependent on retail subsidies and people believe they are zero emissions.

I don’t object to green tech at all. I first had solar panels for domestic hot water in the 70’s. I have photovoltaics now. I’ve owned a hybrid vehicle. I told my stoker if she be comes a widow, she should consider a small EV. I’m 100% LED’s. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say government subsidies was not part of my decision making.
Yes, and Commercial EV maker Proterra recently filed for bankruptcy. They got lots of subsidies that are now sunk costs. Ford got loans from the Treasury to cover its billions lost on EV vehicles.
 
For openers, the United States Secretary of Energy.

Did you read the article?

There is a lot of investment in hydrogen.

Still betting that 'zero' is a marketing term. Anytime actual experts in the field talk, they frame it net zero.
 
Yeah lots of holes there. Working part time etc. I’m not sure that it’s correct. Although I could certainly be wrong. I’ve worked a lot with shelters and the people that come and go aren’t working. They have drug issues. Mental health issues etc. most working people have someone that will take them in. My experience. Not sure it’s correct everywhere tho.
 
Exactly. Here’s a good article on how republican state legislators block democratic city leaders from enacting laws like firearm regulations or local minimum wage or sick leave ordinances.

Red state legislators LOOOOOVE to point out violent crime rates in their state's largest cities and blame it on Democratic mayors or DA's.
 
I will agree with CO. in that lithium battery fires are a real concern. Cheap Chinese batteries may not be helping. Ten years from now let‘s see how frequent fires in old batteries are.
There is a lot out there debunking much of that, and they talk about flow regulators in the batteries. (I'd have to look that term up again, but I get the term from the various podcasts I listen to that occasionally cover EV tech.)
 
Here’s an example. Minimum wage here is $11 and change an hour. $23k a year. You can get a one bedroom apartment in the city for $500 a month. $6k a year. Not to mention HUD etc. plenty of money. Add two people money to spare
 
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Cars requite paved roads, especially early cars long before great tires/suspension/modern 4WD. Roads were largely built by governments, not car manufacturers. Had the various levels of government never built roads, how long would it have taken for the horse to be supplanted? Would you want to drive a Model T to Estes on dirt and gravel? In the winter? So early car manufacturers did exactly what you say green is doing, they said "we have a great product, but we need you guys to pave roads for us".
You need to look into the history of roads. Most early ones were built by private funding. Used to be toll roads to pay for roads from one town to another.

It's not like the government decided to build roads to support cars - early cars drove on old cart paths. It wasn't until later that government stepped in.
 
But most Democratic gun control measures do not focus on the urban gun crime problem. They mostly focus on white bubbas and buying AR’s.
It has to start somewhere. There is zero reason for anyone to own a high capacity, semi-automatic rifle. None.

It's harder to legislate guns that are possessed illegally, and before anyone whines about the law abiding citizens have to suffer the burden, they do on lots of things, including cars. We tackle guns on the street in other ways, including legalizing marijuana and certain types of drugs. Work to remove the profit out of crime.

Meanwhile, Democratic gun control measures struggle to work because guns can be easily bought elsewhere. 40% of guns seized in crimes in Chicago are purchased in Indiana.

Crime in Indy has been on a bad streak the last decade. Gentrification of the city is squeezing out some territory, as drugs from Atlanta through Nashville is battling drugs from Chicago.
 
Here’s an example. Minimum wage here is $11 and change an hour. $23k a year. You can get a one bedroom apartment in the city for $500 a month. $6k a year. Not to mention HUD etc. plenty of money. Add two people money to spare
Wow, that’s really cheap rent. Is that how St Louis is now?

My house in law school (2 bed, 1 bath) was like $650/mo in 2009, and was in a trash part of Indy. Like arson, robbery, burglary, and murder part of town.
 
No it’d be a terrible one bedroom in a shitty neighborhood in the city. But you wouldn’t be homeless. What Harry wrote could very well be true in Chicago ny San Fran etc. but not most cities. A minimum wage job would be enough to get something. And hell places rent rooms too. Roommates etc
Wow, that’s really cheap rent. Is that how St Louis is now?

My house in law school (2 bed, 1 bath) was like $650/mo in 2009, and was in a trash part of Indy. Like arson, robbery, burglary, and murder part of town.
 
How about … Let’s go with what NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) says…

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...g-Posts/2022/11/28/EVs-and-Parking-Structures

… More sprinkler flow required. Battery fires are hard to put out. Garages and Apartments without sprinklers may not be the best place to put an EV, electric scooter, or electric bike, or electric skate board.

https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Fire-causes-and-risks/Lithium-Ion-Battery-Safety

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...thium-ion-batteries-hazard-and-use-assessment

https://www.nfpa.org/Training-and-E...cle-Safety-Training/Emergency-Response-Guides

I haven’t heard of anyone getting electrocuted yet … never is a long time and probability theory says it will happen some day.

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...icle-Safety-Training-for-Emergency-Responders

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...nt-Involving-Electric-Vehicle-Battery-Hazards

Then there is always … vehicle regulation …

https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2022-07/R100r3e.pdf

The potential for hazard is real.
 
Here’s an example. Minimum wage here is $11 and change an hour. $23k a year. You can get a one bedroom apartment in the city for $500 a month. $6k a year. Not to mention HUD etc. plenty of money. Add two people money to spare
I don’t know - are you refuting the data? Perhaps plenty of money to afford it, but who’s to say those $500/mo apartments are available? There’s only so many.
 
I don’t know - are you refuting the data? Perhaps plenty of money to afford it, but who’s to say those $500/mo apartments are available? There’s only so many.
I don’t believe working homeless constitute a large or even significant portion of homeless populations. Perhaps in a handful of exceptionally expensive cities, but they are outliers. Jobs are plentiful and with subsidies even min wage is plenty for a room or even 1 br in most cities
 
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No it’d be a terrible one bedroom in a shitty neighborhood in the city. But you wouldn’t be homeless. What Harry wrote could very well be true in Chicago ny San Fran etc. but not most cities. A minimum wage job would be enough to get something. And hell places rent rooms too. Roommates etc
If there is something that can be tagged to "today's" 20 or 30-somethings it's the resistance to having a roommate. My mother never lived alone until I left for college -- parents' house, college, roommate after college, married finally single parent until I left for IU.

I don't believe in the notion that minimum wage has to be a living wage.

Of course if we're going take deep cuts into a woman's bodily freedom, those opposed to abortion are going to have to go give up the notion they're pro-life and finally admit they're just pro-birth.
 
If your point is thatv Democrat Liberal brainwashing is worse than the OP, you are correct.

Democrats have made parts of many of our great cities shitholes.
Democrats have destroyed our southern border
Democrats are driving down education outcomes for minorities.
Democrats have destroyed retail in some locations.
Democrats have increased crime in some locations.
Democrats have Increased drug use in some locations.
Democrats are increasing inequalities all over.

But millions vote for Democrats because they think Democrats will improve their lives.

65-75% of people think the country is on the wrong track, but they vote for the wrong tack. That’s brainwashing.

How does the fact that the crime rate has dropped significantly over the past 20 to 30 years if large cities are now shitholes?

How does the fact that the cities the right likes to point to (NY, Chicago, San Fran) aren't even the most dangerous and violent large cities if they have been turned into shitholes?

Why then are the murder rates significantly higher in Trump won states than Biden won states, and have been getting worse over the past twenty years if your theory of Dem leadership equals high crime?

What republican led cities or states do you point to as the perfect model that you are arguing for?

I get it. It's effective with your base past Nixon and through Reagan (remember the welfare queen story? He picked out one black woman in Chicago and exaggerated her story to represent a scary figure, even though to this day poor, rural whites in red states overwhelmingly suck up federal welfare benefits).

Your fears aren't matching reality.

As far as climate brainwashing, the science community overwhelmingly, like 98 to 2, have been all over our change in temperature. They can point to around a century when things started to fire up, which coincides with the industrial age and the dominance of fossil fuels. Which means the carbon increases/differentiation have been manmade and continues. The scary part is that they believe our temperature change is an exponential graph, not linear, which is ummm not good.

So you've got the brightest people who study it telling us, you have a pretty easy correlation with the rise of fossil fuels being a new, disruptive energy source that belches carbon into the air. Lastly, as Carl Segan once mentioned, the hottest planet isn't Mercury, it's Venus. Why? Because Venus is covered by dense carbon gas that traps the suns heat.

Basically there are two thoughts. It's an issue (the climate alarmists) or it's a hoax or it's getting warmer but it's not a big deal.

If I'm wrong, well that would be great. If you're wrong, that would be biblically awful.

And for what, because we can't wean ourselves off of fossil fuels?

Even the dinosaurs would be shaking their damn heads at us. They got hit with a space rock that they couldn't avoid.

We were just lazy and dumb....and brainwashed by the oil industry.
 
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If you truly believe this crap you posted, you should take immediate action to get Trump and his clones out of the Republican party and replace them with reasonable people that can behave in a bipartisan manner.

Yes, they exist. There were two on the Jan. 6 committee, and it looks like Georgia has at least 4-5 reasonable Republicans that can work with Democrats but would never vote for either a Democrat or a Trump-like Republican.

That would be a start. You may not like Biden but he has already used bipartisan efforts to achieve legislation he wants. Trump, McCarthy, Jimmy Jordan, Bobo, MTG etc. can't/won't do that.

Or you can keep looking crazy, blaming Democrats for everything since the beginning of time and watch Trump lose once again despite the blind worship he receives from your Republican party.
Fractured Fairy Tale.

Executive Order = Bipartisan Efforts.

Both of your 'reasonable Republicans' were fired by their constituents, despite your blind worship.

PDJT wins ever poll against pudding head.
 
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