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"Donald Trump has a very clear vision that is hard to disagree with."

CoH, according to this article USA energy exports to Europe did increase in 2022 when Biden happened to be in the Oval Office. As I often have said, the U.S. economy does has a life of its own beyond the influence of government.
Exactly. That was the result of LNG infrastructure development begun under Trump. Biden with his crazy temporary suspension of LNG permitting has made sure exports will not continue to increase.

These kinds of statistics are based on policies enacted years prior to the results.
 
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It's not a matter of who deserves what. Once Putin launched a full scale invasion it was incumbent upon the U.S. and the rest of NATO to help provide for their defense
No it wasn't. Ukraine is not part of NATO. We had no obligation to help them. We are helping them because we choose to, mostly to be a check against Russia trying to expand their territory unlawfully.
Now it's looking increasingly likely that this war will end the way all U.S. interventions have ended the last 20+ years. The general public gets tired of footing the bill and the aggressors win out.

The only difference between end states is that 100's of thousands of Ukrainians had to die to get there.
I agree with the first part, but not the second. Yes, many Ukrainians will have died, but also just as many Russians (if not significantly more) will have died, a significant portion of their tanks, navy, and missile stockpiles will be gone, and their economy has taken a huge hit.

We've spent a small percentage of our money to take Russia down a peg in the world order without a single American soldier's life lost in the process. Even if Russia wins, it will be a decade before Russia will have the military might to try this again.

Gotta take the long view on this.
 
Yeah you can believe it has slowed it. But has it really?

No alternate reality to prove otherwise but numbers and severity reduced when vaccine came out and those not vaccinated were getting the worst of the covid cases going forward.

All Biden did was pass along info that the vaccine was being used to battle cancer. It wasn't a lie regardless of how effective it ends up being.
 
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Seventh: Immediately stop all aid to Ukraine and allow Putin to annihilate a sovereign nation.
Eighth: Pull out of NATO and/or continue to undermine it, further emboldening Putin with respect to additional military aggression against American allies (or, perhaps by then, former allies).
Good lord. Victor Orban, a fierce anti-Putin/Russian/Communist leader of a NATO member, whose country Russia ruthlessly invaded during the lifetime of many citizens, supports Trump and you continue with the liberal idiotic talking point that Trump wants to destroy NATO. It’s hard to keep up with all the TDS.
 
No alternate reality to prove otherwise but numbers and severity reduced when vaccine came out and those not vaccinated were getting the worst of the covid cases going forward.

All Biden did was pass along info that the vaccine was being used to battle cancer. It wasn't a lie regardless of how effective it ends up being.
Those vaccinated are still getting it. Some have even worse conditions.
 
No it wasn't. Ukraine is not part of NATO. We had no obligation to help them. We are helping them because we choose to, mostly to be a check against Russia trying to expand their territory unlawfully.

I agree with the first part, but not the second. Yes, many Ukrainians will have died, but also just as many Russians (if not significantly more) will have died, a significant portion of their tanks, navy, and missile stockpiles will be gone, and their economy has taken a huge hit.

We've spent a small percentage of our money to take Russia down a peg in the world order without a single American soldier's life lost in the process. Even if Russia wins, it will be a decade before Russia will have the military might to try this again.

Gotta take the long view on this.
There is no military solution to Ukraine that can be favorable to the US. Each passing day makes it more impossible to have a favorable outcome. There is no long view that is good for us. Biden FUBARED this from the beginning, now it’s too late. Biden is just doubling down on stupid,
 
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Those vaccinated are still getting it. Some have even worse conditions.
There are always outliers but chances are much improved with vaccine. Plus there is no saying on an individual basis what would have happened if they didn't have vaccine.
 
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No it wasn't. Ukraine is not part of NATO. We had no obligation to help them. We are helping them because we choose to, mostly to be a check against Russia trying to expand their territory unlawfully.

I agree with the first part, but not the second. Yes, many Ukrainians will have died, but also just as many Russians (if not significantly more) will have died, a significant portion of their tanks, navy, and missile stockpiles will be gone, and their economy has taken a huge hit.

We've spent a small percentage of our money to take Russia down a peg in the world order without a single American soldier's life lost in the process. Even if Russia wins, it will be a decade before Russia will have the military might to try this again.

Gotta take the long view on this.
As long as you agree that our principal interest in this is the degradation of the Russian military and not "protecting democracy" or "Next is Poland" or some other such nonsense. And as long as you agree that we're doing that at the expense of Ukraine and Ukrainians.

It's geopolitical hardball where we're trying to to degrade a perceived threat. Is Russia really a threat to us? No one actually believes that. But everyone's gotta get a taste.
 
You realize the war would end with Ukraine disappearing and countless lives lost right? Trump isn't talking about a ceasefire. He's talking about letting Putin have what he wants at the expense of Ukraine and its citizens.

Are you just hoping and praying Putin stops with Ukraine? or don't really care because Trump would have it all under control.
The country being invaded needs to give up already. It’s really bothering republicans.
 
As long as you agree that our principal interest in this is the degradation of the Russian military and not "protecting democracy" or "Next is Poland" or some other such nonsense. And as long as you agree that we're doing that at the expense of Ukraine and Ukrainians.

It's geopolitical hardball where we're trying to to degrade a perceived threat. Is Russia really a threat to us? No one actually believes that. But everyone's gotta get a taste.
On the first one, ...yup. It sucks for Ukraine, and I have no reservations in saying that we are using them to do it. But, looking at it through their perspective: If I am a Ukrainian and my choices are 1) Letting Russia roll right in, likely relocate me or members of my family to some far off location and generally ruining my life in the process or 2) Letting me fight off the invaders and I get a shiny new top-of-the-line tank from America to do it with (or at the very least, relative to the WW2 era tank that Russia just rolled in), I'll take choice 2 every time.

As for whether Russia is a perceived threat, I remind you of this statistic:

Number of Nuclear war heads by country:
Russia 5889
USA 5224
China 410
North Korea 30

Make no mistake, China is our largest economic adversary by a landslide, but if a true third world war ever breaks out, Russia is the biggest threat to the world and it isn't even close.
 
If Trump does end up winning in November, I hope he's called out relentlessly for not ending the war in Ukraine in one day as he's promised on multiple occasions.

Better yet, I wish more of the American electorate weren't morons who believed the kind of crap he peddles and he doesn't get elected.
Oh yeah, he’ll be called out the same way he was called out for that great new health care bill he promised was coming in two weeks. For his entire four years.
 
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Good lord. Victor Orban, a fierce anti-Putin/Russian/Communist leader of a NATO member, whose country Russia ruthlessly invaded during the lifetime of many citizens, supports Trump and you continue with the liberal idiotic talking point that Trump wants to destroy NATO. It’s hard to keep up with all the TDS.
Orban is "anti-Putin?" Hilarious. They're buds.


Trump's pro-NATO? He hates it.



Where do you get your misinformation?
 
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It's not a matter of who deserves what. Once Putin launched a full scale invasion it was incumbent upon the U.S. and the rest of NATO to help provide for their defense to a point until we could broker a a reasonable resolution. Instead the West has torpedoed peace negotiations and let Zelensky call the shots on what peace looks like.

Now it's looking increasingly likely that this war will end the way all U.S. interventions have ended the last 20+ years. The general public gets tired of footing the bill and the aggressors win out.

The only difference between end states is that 100's of thousands of Ukrainians had to die to get there.

In what way of NATO coming to the defense of a nation state being attacked by a larger neighbor a demonstration of aggression? Only rubes buy such a narrative.
 
Here's the dirty little secret. Not even Trump's most ardent supporters believe he'll end the war in "one day". They can discern difference between an embellishment and a lie. Something progressives either can't or are unwilling to do, because they like to use them as a cajole.
Haha just because you call his lies embellishments doesn’t make it so. A lie is a lie, Trumpers just don’t care. You know, Fifth Avenue and all. The one thing he said that WASNT a lie. He knows his moronic base.
 
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Here's the dirty little secret. Not even Trump's most ardent supporters believe he'll end the war in "one day". They can discern difference between an embellishment and a lie. Something progressives either can't or are unwilling to do, because they like to use them as a cajole.
I bet I know someone here that does….
 
"He says the following: first, he will not give a single penny for the Russo-Ukrainian war.

That's why the war will end. If Americans don't give money along with the Europeans, the war will end.

And if Americans don't give money then the Europeans won't be able to fund this war alone. And then the war will end. Donald Trump may not be president of the United States yet, but his party is stopping Democrats from spending money on the war. Trump says when he comes back, he won't give a penny to Ukraine. That's when the war will be over."

- Viktor Orbán - March 10, 2024 on M1 Television, 2 days after meeting w Trump at Mar-a-lago
trump wants to cut social security, besides being a bigot, rapist, and racist. trump is a terrible human being.
 
Sure you can. Just need to be well informed. If someone is still getting exercised over Trump promising the moon, they need to have their head checked.
A lot of Trumpers DO need to get their head checked. And Trumoers well informed? There’s an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
 
On the first one, ...yup. It sucks for Ukraine, and I have no reservations in saying that we are using them to do it. But, looking at it through their perspective: If I am a Ukrainian and my choices are 1) Letting Russia roll right in, likely relocate me or members of my family to some far off location and generally ruining my life in the process or 2) Letting me fight off the invaders and I get a shiny new top-of-the-line tank from America to do it with (or at the very least, relative to the WW2 era tank that Russia just rolled in), I'll take choice 2 every time.

As for whether Russia is a perceived threat, I remind you of this statistic:

Number of Nuclear war heads by country:
Russia 5889
USA 5224
China 410
North Korea 30

Make no mistake, China is our largest economic adversary by a landslide, but if a true third world war ever breaks out, Russia is the biggest threat to the world and it isn't even close.
If a Russo- U.S. nuclear war breaks out we’re all dead anyway. And Ukraine and the number of Nukes each country has stockpiled will make no difference.
 
Yeah but your guy is a liar AND a corrupt, sexual abusing moron.
biden is a serial liar with policies that are far more damaging to the country. trump would not only be an upgrade at this point he'd be a massive upgrade. biden is the worst president in modern history. from his attacks on energy, to rescinding border policies, to rhetoric that led to the demise of downtown cores, to inflation, to covid insanity, to his indentity politics selections, to his philosophical aim to redistribute money and create the largest social safety net in history there's no one worse than biden. a civics class of 6th graders would be better than biden and his cabinet

fortunately cities like san fran and others are disavowing the bullshit of biden and the cult. hopefully that translates in 2024 and people don't have short memories
 
So all I said was was the vaccine has cured cancer quote from Biden. However pretty sure the vaccine which has really not stopped anything including covid. Has not cured cancer either.
Pretty sure it stopped a lot of peop,e from dying. And what Biden said wasn’t a lie. Your paraphrase was closer to one.
 
biden is a serial liar with policies that are far more damaging to the country. trump would not only be an upgrade at this point he'd be a massive upgrade. biden is the worst president in modern history. from his attacks on energy, to rescinding border policies, to rhetoric that led to the demise of downtown cores, to inflation, to covid insanity, to his indentity politics selections, to his philosophical aim to redistribute money and create the largest social safety net in history there's no one worse than biden. a civics class of 6th graders would be better than biden and his cabinet

fortunately cities like san fran and others are disavowing the bullshit of biden and the cult. hopefully that translates in 2024 and people don't have short memories
Nope. Wrong. No matter how many times you say the same thing and no matter how many times you call something, whatever you think it is a cult, doesn’t make it true and doesn’t make Trumpers less of a cult.
 
Would someone get Zeke the hell off me? She’s rage replied to four of my posts in the last five minutes.

Someone put her in a ward and take the computer away.
Poor baby. You can always log off if you prefer. Stop saying stupid things and I’ll stop responding to them.
 
There is no military solution to Ukraine that can be favorable to the US.
Wrong. There's an obvious solution. Ukraine, with our assistance, prevails and remains a sovereign nation and staunch US ally.

Why do you have such a defeatist attitude?
 
Poor baby. You can always log off if you prefer. Stop saying stupid things and I’ll stop responding to them.
You’ve made a dozen posts inside of 10 minutes in this thread.

You are reverting to a knee jerk response and not even attempting to put thought into what you post. Such behavior shouldn’t be tolerated by board Mods as it is no better than spam. It is also a sign of being overly emotional and unintelligent.
 
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If a Russo- U.S. nuclear war breaks out we’re all dead anyway. And Ukraine and the number of Nukes each country has stockpiled will make no difference.
So, you are agreeing that they are a threat?
We can argue about mutually assured destruction till the cows come home, but the bottom line is, you asked if they are a threat to us.
The answer is, yes, they are.

Taking them down a peg is a win for the world.


(EDIT: And speak for yourself. I intend to live through the nuclear holocaust. Got my rifle, emergency rations, and a lovely cave within minutes of my house. Still working on the pip-boy though).
 
In what way of NATO coming to the defense of a nation state being attacked by a larger neighbor a demonstration of aggression? Only rubes buy such a narrative.
NATO funding Ukraine is not an act of aggression. Expanding to Russian borders is perceived by Putin and most Russians as such. For good reason as the mission statement for the entire alliance is to counter Russia.
 
Taking them down a peg is a win for the world.
I still fail to see how so. How is life tangibly improved by continuation of the conflict? If anything the conflict has severely deteriorated quality of life in greater Western Europe and here in the States.

They can saber rattle about nukes just as if not more effectively now as they could pre-invasion. It means nothing.
 
NATO funding Ukraine is not an act of aggression. Expanding to Russian borders is perceived by Putin and most Russians as such. For good reason as the mission statement for the entire alliance is to counter Russia.
Then it's Russia's job to convince Ukraine to join Russia for economic, political, and societal reasons. Russia invading is not the right answer.

If you are girl and a hot guy with lots of money starts hitting on you, is it OK if your EX whips out a gun and points it at your head and says "No! You belong to me!"?
 
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We feel the same about Biden
I think the difference is in what Trump tells the truth about - or at least what truth is revealed about him. Through direct quotes or from people close to him/that have served under him during his first presidency, we've learned that he hates the press and wants them jailed, thinks protesters should be shot (only in the leg) to get them to disperse, thinks shoplifters should be shot (and presumably killed), and that as president he should be above the law and be allowed to be a short-term dictator.

I'm less concerned about how you feel about Biden than I am about your indifference toward Trump. Say what you want about Biden, but all the links above are either in Trump's own words or first hand accounts of things he said. You tell me how those things aren't undemocratic, unconstitutional or un-American.

It's still not clear to me why you're going to vote for the guy. Do you really think that under Trump you'll be able to buy cheaper gas and groceries and skipping down the streets of St. Louis will be safe again? I honestly don't get how the MAGA morons hear all of the above and just say, 'F#*k Yeah!'
 
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Then it's Russia's job to convince Ukraine to join Russia for economic, political, and societal reasons. Russia invading is not the right answer.
Except there was a pro-Russian democratically elected government in Ukraine until the CIA backed maidan revolution deposed it.

All that to say that the invasion is not justifiable, but we are where we are (largely due to U.S./ NATO decisions and actions) and continuation of the war indefinitely serves no one’s interests.
 
These quotes from both sides are just clickbait. Trump…drill baby drill and stuff…boarder wall and stuff. Biden…slobber, words, numbers, slobber….
 
Wrong. There's an obvious solution. Ukraine, with our assistance, prevails and remains a sovereign nation and staunch US ally.

Why do you have such a defeatist attitude?
Ukraine is running out of bodies. A war of attrition favors Russia. Ukraine had to win this in the first months, Biden slow walked the needed weapons because he didn’t want to provoke Putin into escalation. (ROTFLMAO) That is so damn dumb it funny. The world is paying a price. Ukraine must must negotiate.
 
It's still not clear to me why you're going to vote for the guy. Do you really think that under Trump you'll be able to buy cheaper gas and groceries and skipping down the streets of St. Louis will be safe again?
we've had four years of trump. he wasn't a dictator. post presidency he has complied with the system at every turn. so no i don't subscribe to unfounded paranoia.

first and foremost it's a referendum vote against biden and progressive policies.
biden's attack on energy contributed to the increase in gas prices
biden's efforts to create the largest social safety net in history increased grocery prices
soros far left DA's and the attacks on police made the city more dangerous

so yes, unequivocally, i KNOW republicans would improve the areas you cite. without question

i am shocked that anyone would vote for biden. i get staying home but this is the worst president in my lifetime.
 
Believe it or not, it was my desire to assist the Soviet Union into the community of democratic capitalist nations long before it appeared the Cold War had ended.

Firmly believe joining the global economy in a competitive fashion with less emphasis on military power is the best way to bring world peace.

My peace through economic strength came to a brutal end with 9/11 and terrorism. Just what the terrorists wanted.

CoH, according to this article USA energy exports to Europe did increase in 2022 when Biden happened to be in the Oval Office. As I often have said, the U.S. economy does has a life of its own beyond the influence of government.

The article in part states...

U.S. companies provided 50 percent of Europe’s liquefied natural gas supplies in 2022, along with 12 percent of its oil. Russian oil and gas shipments to the continent have shriveled by half, beset by boycotts, sanctions and an EU price cap. Global oil and gas trade routes have been redrawn and renewable energy development has received a massive financial and political shot in the arm.
Well, the Ukrainian war caused that. It wasn't because of any Biden's energy policy shift.
 
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