Documents released by Parnas attorney are intriguing

[Marvin the Martian]

I don't know what drives Bannon.... but I don't get the sense that it's money. And I wouldn't even call him a Republican. He's not a fan of corporate America and they are not a fan of him. If you read Breitbart.... particularly when he was in control of it.... they railed on corporate America unlike anything outside of a Bernie rally. Their main position being that big business imports cheap labor and cheap goods to the harm of the working class. It has a much stronger xenophobic tilt than a Bernie rally..... but it ends up in the same place.

Bannon is a populist. I am not sure Bernie is a populist, but his message resonates heavily with populists. Supporters of the other D candidates are targeted harshly by Bernie supporters. It isn't all Bernie supporters, I know that as I voted for him/gave to him last time. But the subsection that are populists are, well, pretty much identical to hard core Trump supporters. They have that cult thing going on, and it is a take no prisoners war. They are the group that provides Bernie with his big energy.

 

[Digressions]

I don't know what drives Bannon.... but I don't get the sense that it's money. And I wouldn't even call him a Republican. He's not a fan of corporate America and they are not a fan of him. If you read Breitbart.... particularly when he was in control of it.... they railed on corporate America unlike anything outside of a Bernie rally. Their main position being that big business imports cheap labor and cheap goods to the harm of the working class. It has a much stronger xenophobic tilt than a Bernie rally..... but it ends up in the same place.

Agreed. I was speaking about the difference between the rhetoric and the actual policies. If I made a mistake, it might have been to equate Trump's actual trade war with Bannon's rhetoric. Maybe the ask would have been different if Bannon were still around. I stand by my premise that what the deplorables want/need is much different than the policies they are receiving from this administration.

 

[wiede]

Watching this interview, it fits right in with the larger picture of the Trump mafia family. Obviously, the entire Trump enterprise - including the administration - is corrupt as hell, and essentially a psuedo-feudal organization built entirely on graft.

A lot of people have asked how Republicans can go along with this. We know why some of them do. Some of them - the so called "deplorables" - genuinely like and support who Trump is. He speaks to their racism, their misogyny, their longing for a mythical America from a bygone era before the world passed them by. We might not like those people, but at least their support makes sense.

But what about all the other Republicans that have stayed on board? We've tossed around a lot of ideas. Evangelicals want judges. Business interests want lower taxes. Whatever it is, it's usually based on something transactional. They know Trump is bad news, but he can give them something they won't get from the Democrats, so they suck it up and deal with it.

But there's another possibility that's been tossed around - and watching Parnas talk about Rudy being incensed that Ukraine had the gall to announce anti-corruption measures without specifically mentioning Biden makes me think this really might be the biggest factor - is that it's almost entirely tribal. For all of Trump's corruption, what he's essentially being accused of boils down to this: he's going after Democrats. Maybe that's all it takes to make it all okay for a lot of people.

Edit: Minor format and syntax fixes.

The latter theory.

Otherwise reasonable people become rabid when the word “Dem”, “Pelosi” or “Schiff” is mentioned.

it’s downright Pavlovian at this point.

 

[Spartans9312]

The latter theory.

Otherwise reasonable people become rabid when the word “Dem”, “Pelosi” or “Schiff” is mentioned.

it’s downright Pavlovian at this point.

But not the word "Trump"?
Cuts both ways, kid.

 

[zeke4ahs]

But not the word "Trump"?
Cuts both ways, kid.

No, it doesn’t. Trump has given us the reason. Until Trump, there was never a single Republican that I strongly detested. There were certainly disagreements with policy, but that was it, I disagreed with John McCain, Mitt Romney, even the Bush Family, but o certainly didn’t hate them and call them names, Republicans have been building us this brand of hate and resentment for a very long time. That’s why they prefer a communist to a Democrat. Trump just took what was already bubbling underneath the surface and brought it to the forefront with his rabid base.

 

[Spartans9312]

Parnas seems a little like Michael Cohen 2.0 doesn’t he?

Yes.
He's now considered a hero by some

 

[zeke4ahs]

Yes.
He's now considered a hero by some

By whom? He’s a criminal. He’s still a criminal. Just like Trump. At least he seems somewhat repentant, which Trump has never been in his entire life.

 

[Spartans9312]

By whom? He’s a criminal. He’s still a criminal. Just like Trump. At least he seems somewhat repentant, which Trump has never been in his entire life.

Yep. Been indicted and denies have spoken to Trump despite earlier reports

 

[zeke4ahs]

Yep. Been indicted and denies have spoken to Trump despite earlier reports

And? What difference does that make? He has tons of evidence, including emails.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Bannon is a populist. I am not sure Bernie is a populist, but his message resonates heavily with populists. Supporters of the other D candidates are targeted harshly by Bernie supporters. It isn't all Bernie supporters, I know that as I voted for him/gave to him last time. But the subsection that are populists are, well, pretty much identical to hard core Trump supporters. They have that cult thing going on, and it is a take no prisoners war. They are the group that provides Bernie with his big energy.

Documentary about Bannon is playing with Ryder’s right now. Can’t see it this weekend but will try next. It’s called American Dharma by Errol Morris.

 

[wiede]

Yes.
He's now considered a hero by some

not a hero. at all. He’s a guy that is scared to death of Trump’s current fixer (Barr), and the DOJ. A person fleeing the country doesn’t have all the duty on him when he does. That’s completely illogical.

He’s a guy that was tabbed by DJT and Giuliani to be the “fixer” for an illegal scheme. Did I mention this illegal scheme was designed to smear his anticipated 2020 political opponent, and also to try to somehow prove a bonkers conspiracy theory that it was Ukraine, and NOT Russia, that meddled in the 2016 election to assist Trump.

He may be a slimy guy, but he’s DJT’s slimy guy. You can’t bring someone in to a criminal act, and after it’s exposed, have the right to claim he’s dirty. That’s ridiculous.

Now Trump doesn’t know him, despite mountains of evidence otherwise. It’s pretty clear the guy was a key point person in the whole Ukrainian escapade. And now that he’s talking, Trump wants to pretend that he doesn’t know anything about him. Similar to how he treated Cohen, and before that, Manafort. Do you realize that John Dowd paid Parnas a visit in jail, and told him not to cooperate??? Parnas was smart enough to realize that he wad screwed either way, and his best bet at this point was to talk and expose what happened.

Watch at least the first night of the Maddow interview. He comes off as very confident in what he’s saying, and credible. He’s either an extremely good liar, or he’s got the goods.

 

[DrHoops]

But....no one in the Administration knew Lev Parnas!!!





He just wanders in and includes himself in important conversations!

 

[cosmickid]

Yes.
He's now considered a hero by some

But....no one in the Administration knew Lev Parnas!!!

View embedded media

View embedded media

He just wanders in and includes himself in important conversations!

And then (miraculously) finds himself holding numerous strategy meetings with Zelensky's inner circle and exchanging emails with everyone connected to the entire rogue policy initiative. Simply amazing...

 

[DrHoops]

And just to be clear, this is 100% a-okay with the Republican Party. They're more upset about Tom Brady's deflated footballs than foreigners interfering in our free and fair elections.

Sick people.

And then (miraculously) finds himself holding numerous strategy meetings with Zelensky's inner circle and exchanging emails with everyone connected to the entire rogue policy initiative. Simply amazing...

 

[wiede]

And then (miraculously) finds himself holding numerous strategy meetings with Zelensky's inner circle and exchanging emails with everyone connected to the entire rogue policy initiative. Simply amazing...

The case being laid out during the trial will be enlightening for many folks. Largely because their preferred media sources have completely distorted the evidence that’s out there to this point.

The dots are connected- despite the Trump admin’s every effort to withhold everything they could. Including having Parnas arrested, then sending John Dowd over to tell Lev that if he plays ball, Dowd will represent him.

After the opening arguments part of the trial, I really hope that at least 4 pubs realize that they swore an oath to uphold the constitution, and allow the obvious need for witnesses and documents. You know, the folks that were actually there that have stonewalled every effort to uncover the truth to this point.

it’s more and more obvious every day that Trump has turned the government into the mafia. Loyalty rules above everything, principles be damned. Every day seems more and more like an even more twisted alternate reality.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The case being laid out during the trial will be enlightening for many folks. Largely because their preferred media sources have completely distorted the evidence that’s out there to this point.

The dots are connected- despite the Trump admin’s every effort to withhold everything they could. Including having Parnas arrested, then sending John Dowd over to tell Lev that if he plays ball, Dowd will represent him.

After the opening arguments part of the trial, I really hope that at least 4 pubs realize that they swore an oath to uphold the constitution, and allow the obvious need for witnesses and documents. You know, the folks that were actually there that have stonewalled every effort to uncover the truth to this point.

it’s more and more obvious every day that Trump has turned the government into the mafia. Loyalty rules above everything, principles be damned. Every day seems more and more like an even more twisted alternate reality.

Your posts are always hopeful of the latest bombshell being the final bombshell. A couple of things.

Parmas is under indictment and looking for a quid pro quo.

Vadym Prystaiko, effectively cleared President Trump of any wrongdoing.

Is Trump like the Mafia? Ask the Chinese. They caved and the tariffs are still in place. Now that’s leverage.

 

[hoosboot]

Your posts are always hopeful of the latest bombshell being the final bombshell. A couple of things.

Parmas is under indictment and looking for a quid pro quo.

Vadym Prystaiko, effectively cleared President Trump of any wrongdoing.

Is Trump like the Mafia? Ask the Chinese. They caved and the tariffs are still in place. Now that’s leverage.

You mean the Chinese who played the Trump Administration into thinking that they got any serious concessions in the "Phase 1 Deal"? Or maybe it's not the Trump Administration that is fooled as much as it is its supporters.

 

[meridian]

Yes.
He's now considered a hero by some

You need to see a shrink, amigo!

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You mean the Chinese who played the Trump Administration into thinking that they got any serious concessions in the "Phase 1 Deal"? Or maybe it's not the Trump Administration that is fooled as much as it is its supporters.

Phase 1 isn't perfect, but it still represents a significant achievement of the Trump Administration. Trump took short term risks, and they appear to have paid off in the long term. Sure, China might be lying and won't comply with their commitments to up purchasing our ag products and other goods or they might renege on their intellectual property promises. But Trump's approach to the China negotiations is far superior to the supine and feckless Obama effort. The equity markets have responded with sharp increases, in spite of the chaos of impeachment. The people who pay attention to the issues contained in the agreement are optimistic.

 

[hoosboot]

Phase 1 isn't perfect, but it still represents a significant achievement of the Trump Administration. Trump took short term risks, and they appear to have paid off in the long term. Sure, China might be lying and won't comply with their commitments to up purchasing our ag products and other goods or they might renege on their intellectual property promises. But Trump's approach to the China negotiations is far superior to the supine and feckless Obama effort. The equity markets have responded with sharp increases, in spite of the chaos of impeachment. The people who pay attention to the issues contained in the agreement are optimistic.

You mean the increases in purchases almost back up to 2017 levels? And the intellectual property promises that they had already previously made? The people who pay attention don't try to claim that a 1% uptick in the markets is a "sharp increase".

President Trump's "approach to China" has cost the American public billions and netted precious little, but you can take comfort in your ODS keeping you company while the "people who pay attention" take approaches to China that actually make sense.

 

[cosmickid]

Your posts are always hopeful of the latest bombshell being the final bombshell. A couple of things.

Parmas is under indictment and looking for a quid pro quo.

Vadym Prystaiko, effectively cleared President Trump of any wrongdoing.

Is Trump like the Mafia? Ask the Chinese. They caved and the tariffs are still in place. Now that’s leverage.

I don't think any of us are naive enough to think ANY bombshell will result in Trump cult members voting to remove him in the Senate. But the GOP has some very tenuous Senate seats to defend in 2020,and continued revelations are going to add to the anxiety of people like Collins, Gardner, and McSally who all face very uphill races, as well as Ernst and Tillis who are going to face stiff challenges.

Parnas is a REPUBLICAN MILLIONAIRE. He is under indictment for illegally shifting cash to GOP candidates, so you might want to go easy on the "indictment "aspect" He works for Rudy, he had lunch with Rudy at Trump Tower hours before he was arrested. When arrested he (and Fruman) were holding 1 way tickets to Vienna,and Rudy was scheduled to fly to Vienna a couple of days later- a trip he cancelled following Parnas' arrest.

Parnas also has had multiple contacts with Derek Harvey, who in addition being a former WH official is also Nunes' top aide. Some more emails between Harvey and Parnas were just released yesterday...

"The messages show that Harvey was far more involved than previously known in what appears to be a robust effort by Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee to investigate Ukraine-related matters.

The documents released Friday include messages between Parnas and Harvey arranging times to meet and to speak by phone, and sharing articles and tweets about Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch and alleged Ukrainian meddling in the 2016 election, claims that have been called an unfounded conspiracy theory."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tr...test-news-n1065706/ncrd1118281#liveBlogHeader

You know Parnas did not just start showing up in pics with Trump AFTER Trump was elected. There are multiple FB photos and timeline entries posted by Parnas and people who knew him discussing his friendship with Trump, going back as far as 2013-2014... Parnas lives in Florida (Boca Raton) and my guess is he has been seen at Mara lago on more than 1 occasion.

Parnas has reported that Nunes met with Shokin in Vienna in Dec 2018, which happens to coincide with a short few days (taxpayer-funded) jaunt that Nunes (and Harvey) made at that time. Parnas has claimed that HE arranged the meeting,and while the Pubs try to claim otherwise, they are stuck with the remarkable coincidence of Parnas pinpointing the date BEFORE Nunes' travel schedule came under scrutiny by the media and was reported on. Now I'd call that a pretty remarkable coincidence, right up there with all the people who claim NOT to know Parnas but somehow keep showing up in pics and videos that he happens to be in...

More remarkable coincidences? All the "businessmen" from various points in Eastern Europe who are widely viewed as connected with the "Russian Mob" ,that somehow figure into Donald Trump's orbit.

"Trump’s favorite kind of immigrants have a common life story. They came to the land of opportunity from some former Soviet Socialist Republic with barely two kopecks to rub together. They then amassed enormous fortunes either through opaque business practices or completely unknown means. Some have rap sheets and did time; others wound up living in Trump Tower, if not living it up at one of the president’s many bankrupted casinos or resorts. Still others have tried to help Trump erect glittering and gaudy monuments to himself, from Fort Lauderdale to Moscow, only to fail miserably.

All, however, have boasted about their warm personal or professional relationships with the celebrity mogul turned commander-in-chief, even if the favor hasn’t always been returned. And every one of them has alleged connections, either directly or through their own dubious associations, to Russian organized crime—which they categorically deny.

To make things easier for laymen and specialists alike, The Daily Beast has compiled sketches of what we’re calling The Donald’s Dirty Dozen. Many of these ties were first unearthed and detailed in a seminal work from investigative journalist Craig Unger, whose House of Trump, House of Putin remains the go-to book on the subject"

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-alleged-russian-mobsters-in-trump-worlds-orbit-a-dirty-dozen

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Bannon is a populist. I am not sure Bernie is a populist, but his message resonates heavily with populists. Supporters of the other D candidates are targeted harshly by Bernie supporters. It isn't all Bernie supporters, I know that as I voted for him/gave to him last time. But the subsection that are populists are, well, pretty much identical to hard core Trump supporters. They have that cult thing going on, and it is a take no prisoners war. They are the group that provides Bernie with his big energy.

A significant number of the Bernie supporters will switch to Trump in the general election like they did last time. That’s assuming Bernie isn’t the nominee, and if he is the nominee (or Warren is, I think we’re looking at four more years of Trump.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You mean the increases in purchases almost back up to 2017 levels? And the intellectual property promises that they had already previously made? The people who pay attention don't try to claim that a 1% uptick in the markets is a "sharp increase".

President Trump's "approach to China" has cost the American public billions and netted precious little, but you can take comfort in your ODS keeping you company while the "people who pay attention" take approaches to China that actually make sense.

If you point is that there is no such thing as a free lunch, I agree. Of course this deal involved costs on our side of the ledger. A while ago, people posted here about our preoccupation with short term results and to hell with the long term. I think Trump's China deal is the exact opposite. Trump mentioned China often during his campaign. His consistent theme was to get tough with China. He did. It had costs. But it also has benefits. Chief among the benefits is that China now knows that "America First" is not simply a slogan. China had a bad economic year. While there are other issues, such as Hong Kong and the Taiwan elections, Trump's trade war was part of the picture. The end result is that the Chinese economic juggernaut has been taken down a notch or two. This is a long term benefit for which Trump can take some credit.

 

[UncleMark]

China had a bad economic year. While there are other issues, such as Hong Kong and the Taiwan elections, Trump's trade war was part of the picture. The end result is that the Chinese economic juggernaut has been taken down a notch or two. This is a long term benefit for which Trump can take some credit.

Why is this a benefit? How does causing harm to the Chinese economy benefit the US? I thought capitalism worked best in win-win situations, rather than zero sum. Why do they have to lose for us to win?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

A significant number of the Bernie supporters will switch to Trump in the general election like they did last time. That’s assuming Bernie isn’t the nominee, and if he is the nominee (or Warren is, I think we’re looking at four more years of Trump.

Yes, there is a big Trump/Bernie crossover. It hurts the D's.

 

[hoosboot]

If you point is that there is no such thing as a free lunch, I agree. Of course this deal involved costs on our side of the ledger. A while ago, people posted here about our preoccupation with short term results and to hell with the long term. I think Trump's China deal is the exact opposite. Trump mentioned China often during his campaign. His consistent theme was to get tough with China. He did. It had costs. But it also has benefits. Chief among the benefits is that China now knows that "America First" is not simply a slogan. China had a bad economic year. While there are other issues, such as Hong Kong and the Taiwan elections, Trump's trade war was part of the picture. The end result is that the Chinese economic juggernaut has been taken down a notch or two. This is a long term benefit for which Trump can take some credit.

Obviously, that's not my point at all, but I don't think you even understand your own point so I shouldn't expect you to be able to understand mine. Your big win of China having "a bad economic year" is the definition of short-term thinking. The American public paying substantial costs for such a silly short-term goal is idiotic, which is why most economists found Trump's tariffs to be stupid policy. The goal here should be for America to benefit and prosper when it invests in things...not just for China to suffer, particularly when that suffering is simultaneously joined by American suffering.

So, yeah, "America First" is simply just a slogan because you and Trump aren't even advocating for that. You're advocating for "China hurt", which is substantially different than "America helped".

 

[mashnut]

Obviously, that's not my point at all, but I don't think you even understand your own point so I shouldn't expect you to be able to understand mine. Your big win of China having "a bad economic year" is the definition of short-term thinking. The American public paying substantial costs for such a silly short-term goal is idiotic, which is why most economists found Trump's tariffs to be stupid policy. The goal here should be for America to benefit and prosper when it invests in things...not just for China to suffer, particularly when that suffering is simultaneously joined by American suffering.

So, yeah, "America First" is simply just a slogan because you and Trump aren't even advocating for that. You're advocating for "China hurt", which is substantially different than "America helped".

It’s perfectly on-brand. Today’s Republican Party isn’t about lifting people up, it’s about tearing down Liberals, Democrats, and any demographic groups that support them. It’s not about elevating American Evangelicalism, it’s about attacking anyone of different or no faith. And it’s not about looking forward to how America stays the world economic and innovation leader, it’s about tearing down economies that threaten to overtake us while we refuse to learn and grow.

 

[Cortez88]

Since we won the trade war, will the American farmers be repaying the subsidies Trump gave them? The automakers repaid their loans.

 

[Bill4411]

Since we won the trade war, will the American farmers be repaying the subsidies Trump gave them? The automakers repaid their loans.

I would not think so as they are still losing. Apparently China is going to artificial meat and is no longer interested in our meat industry-this was probably going to happen long term but team Trump has accelerated the problem. Would this happen ultimately probably but it was several years down the road.

Unintended consequences are a function of the chaos created by Trump.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Obviously, that's not my point at all, but I don't think you even understand your own point so I shouldn't expect you to be able to understand mine. Your big win of China having "a bad economic year" is the definition of short-term thinking. The American public paying substantial costs for such a silly short-term goal is idiotic, which is why most economists found Trump's tariffs to be stupid policy. The goal here should be for America to benefit and prosper when it invests in things...not just for China to suffer, particularly when that suffering is simultaneously joined by American suffering.

So, yeah, "America First" is simply just a slogan because you and Trump aren't even advocating for that. You're advocating for "China hurt", which is substantially different than "America helped".

Economic relationships are important for business, governments and people.

Negotiations are important to creating economic relationships.

Applying leverage is important to economic negotiations because all economic negotiations involve exchanges of things of value or promises to do so.

The objective is not to damage China but for China to understand that failure to negotiate in good faith, and to reach agreement, carried risks. Trump’s predecessor didn’t see this. This is all basic and easy stuff. Banal platitudes doesn’t solve disputes.

 

[UncleMark]

Economic relationships are important for business, governments and people.

Negotiations are important to creating economic relationships.

Applying leverage is important to economic negotiations because all economic negotiations involve exchanges of things of value or promises to do so.

The objective is not to damage China but for China to understand that failure to negotiate in good faith, and to reach agreement, carried risks. Trump’s predecessor didn’t see this. This is all basic and easy stuff. Banal platitudes doesn’t solve disputes.

Does your stoker ride along when you backpedal?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Does your stoker ride along when you backpedal?

Ha. Fair point. But you miss the nuance of my comments about China’s economic issues.

 

[UncleMark]

Ha. Fair point. But you miss the nuance of my comments about China’s economic issues.

Of course I do.

 

[twenty02]

Economic relationships are important for business, governments and people.

Negotiations are important to creating economic relationships.

Applying leverage is important to economic negotiations because all economic negotiations involve exchanges of things of value or promises to do so.

The objective is not to damage China but for China to understand that failure to negotiate in good faith, and to reach agreement, carried risks. Trump’s predecessor didn’t see this. This is all basic and easy stuff. Banal platitudes doesn’t solve disputes.

You may well be a subject matter expert on certain things..... but it clearly isn't anywhere near the field of international trade.

We actually had been developing a long- term strategic solution to the China issue... it started under the Bush admin.... and then continued on under the Obama admin. Because for all the ideological differences between those two administrations, there was a general consensus across political lines that the best way to counter China behavior was a multi-lateral agreement that would pull all these trading partners much closer to the US.... setting standards from everything from labor and environmental standards to intellectual property


It is downright fricking hilarious that you have above argued that somehow Trump's bilateral, transactional agreement directly with China (with zero teeth, BTW) is a long term anything. You applaud that tariffs (taxes on US consumers) is still on.... bizarre.


As to markets reaction the last 3 months...... it is equivalent to someone shooting themselves in the foot, then having a celebration when it was determined the foot won't need to be amputated. Trump created a crisis situation.... then "solved it" by getting us only halfway back to where we freaking started. That's what con-men do.....

You are either talking out your ass about topics you have no clue about.... or you are being intentionally dishonest. I'll leave it to the readers to judge for that on their own.

 

[DrHoops]

Excellent post.

You may well be a subject matter expert on certain things..... but it clearly isn't anywhere near the field of international trade.

We actually had been developing a long- term strategic solution to the China issue... it started under the Bush admin.... and then continued on under the Obama admin. Because for all the ideological differences between those two administrations, there was a general consensus across political lines that the best way to counter China behavior was a multi-lateral agreement that would pull all these trading partners much closer to the US.... setting standards from everything from labor and environmental standards to intellectual property


It is downright fricking hilarious that you have above argued that somehow Trump's bilateral, transactional agreement directly with China (with zero teeth, BTW) is a long term anything. You applaud that tariffs (taxes on US consumers) is still on.... bizarre.


As to markets reaction the last 3 months...... it is equivalent to someone shooting themselves in the foot, then having a celebration when it was determined the foot won't need to be amputated. Trump created a crisis situation.... then "solved it" by getting us only halfway back to where we freaking started. That's what con-men do.....

You are either talking out your ass about topics you have no clue about.... or you are being intentionally dishonest. I'll leave it to the readers to judge for that on their own.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You may well be a subject matter expert on certain things..... but it clearly isn't anywhere near the field of international trade.

We actually had been developing a long- term strategic solution to the China issue... it started under the Bush admin.... and then continued on under the Obama admin. Because for all the ideological differences between those two administrations, there was a general consensus across political lines that the best way to counter China behavior was a multi-lateral agreement that would pull all these trading partners much closer to the US.... setting standards from everything from labor and environmental standards to intellectual property


It is downright fricking hilarious that you have above argued that somehow Trump's bilateral, transactional agreement directly with China (with zero teeth, BTW) is a long term anything. You applaud that tariffs (taxes on US consumers) is still on.... bizarre.


As to markets reaction the last 3 months...... it is equivalent to someone shooting themselves in the foot, then having a celebration when it was determined the foot won't need to be amputated. Trump created a crisis situation.... then "solved it" by getting us only halfway back to where we freaking started. That's what con-men do.....

You are either talking out your ass about topics you have no clue about.... or you are being intentionally dishonest. I'll leave it to the readers to judge for that on their own.

Who recalls Trump saying the TPP was written to advantage China? All Trump knew was 1) there was something called TPP and 2) nationalists opposed it. He guessed as to why, and was wrong.

 

[twenty02]

Who recalls Trump saying the TPP was written to advantage China? All Trump knew was 1) there was something called TPP and 2) nationalists opposed it. He guessed as to why, and was wrong.

The Trump trade policy has set this country in reverse that will likely take another decade to repair. We are fortunate that all the other parties to TPP have kept the overall agreement together.... awaiting the clown show to end and real adults actually take control again in the US.

 

[hoosboot]

To see that you are spinning hot air and advocating nothing of substance, all one has to do is look at the first and last sentences of your own post:

Economic relationships are important for business, governments and people.

Banal platitudes doesn’t solve disputes.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You may well be a subject matter expert on certain things..... but it clearly isn't anywhere near the field of international trade.

We actually had been developing a long- term strategic solution to the China issue... it started under the Bush admin.... and then continued on under the Obama admin. Because for all the ideological differences between those two administrations, there was a general consensus across political lines that the best way to counter China behavior was a multi-lateral agreement that would pull all these trading partners much closer to the US.... setting standards from everything from labor and environmental standards to intellectual property


It is downright fricking hilarious that you have above argued that somehow Trump's bilateral, transactional agreement directly with China (with zero teeth, BTW) is a long term anything. You applaud that tariffs (taxes on US consumers) is still on.... bizarre.


As to markets reaction the last 3 months...... it is equivalent to someone shooting themselves in the foot, then having a celebration when it was determined the foot won't need to be amputated. Trump created a crisis situation.... then "solved it" by getting us only halfway back to where we freaking started. That's what con-men do.....

You are either talking out your ass about topics you have no clue about.... or you are being intentionally dishonest. I'll leave it to the readers to judge for that on their own.

The US economy is thriving in all respects notwithstanding a Chinese trade war. But the most important aspect of the trade war is not the specific terms of the agreement, but instead the change in the dynamics of China's economic adventurism.

Tariffs? Studies show that Chinese exporters are indeed paying at least some of the freight and will be paying more.

Chinese companies have started to absorb the cost of US tariffs, cutting prices on exports to the United States about a year into the trade war, according to a new study.
___________________

Chinese exporters held off on price cuts until the second quarter of this year, when they reduced prices of tariff-hit goods to the US by an average of 8 per cent, according to a UN study.

Chinese companies have started to absorb the cost of US tariffs, cutting prices on exports to the United States about a year into the trade war, according to a new study.

The research, by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (Unctad), indicates that Chinese exporters held off on price cuts until the second quarter of this year, when they reduced prices of tariff-hit goods to the US by an average of 8 per cent.


​

 

[i'vegotwinners]

The Trump trade policy has set this country in reverse that will likely take another decade to repair. We are fortunate that all the other parties to TPP have kept the overall agreement together.... awaiting the clown show to end and real adults actually take control again in the US.

the Pub and Dem Wall St/investor class driven trade policies have set the working class in reverse financially for 40 yrs and counting.

but then, you obviously have no problem with that.