Dangerous stuff--open letter from former generals and admirals questioning the election

larsIU

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I don’t follow. Gore litigated the hell out of it in Fla. an iu guy was one of the main lawyers.
Responding to Ranger relative to Gore winning. Likely he didn't but agree his litigating is within the bounds of challenging an election and was litigated within very narrow parameters. That he won/lost doesn't matter. I just had no problem with how it was done. I do have problems, as I think you do as well, with how Trump and his cohorts "litigated" the post 2020 morass.
 

TommyCracker

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Uhhh there are hundreds of business owners across the nation and dozens of family members of deceased people who would beg to differ with your ludicrous assertion that BLM and Antifa are “gaslighting” examples. Seriously, do better.

I took it that Antifa/BLM is one of the go to boogieman.

Riots after a cop shooting....yeah that makes sense.

Blaming BLM for a right wing riot that tried to change an outcome that supposedly favors BLM is simply loony tunes gaslighting, particularly when there is absolutely zero evidence in clips, recognition, etc.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Don't get too worked up, everyone.

The Colorado Department of Labor describes Colorado employment law as follows (not at all earthshattering from what little I know about state employment law):

We are discussing one of the exceptions to Employment at Will. The public policy exception is stated on your link as follows:

Violation of Public Policy​

An employee cannot be terminated for reasons violating public policy. Examples include discharging an employee for: filing a worker's compensation claim, bringing or threatening a lawsuit, serving on a jury, engaging in lawful off-duty activities, refusing to commit perjury, whistleblower situations, etc.​
 
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mcmurtry66

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Responding to Ranger relative to Gore winning. Likely he didn't but agree his litigating is within the bounds of challenging an election and was litigated within very narrow parameters. That he won/lost doesn't matter. I just had no problem with how it was done. I do have problems, as I think you do as well, with how Trump and his cohorts "litigated" the post 2020 morass.
Got it. That once again was the idiotic media calling races too soon. That was interesting times and gave rise to new rules aimed at recording the intentions of as many voters as possible. The first firm to fly me for an interview was an IU guy representing Bush in that mess. I felt like a big shit. Even took my gf along.

It’s amazing to me that we’re so technologically advanced and we’re still having voting issues
 

TommyCracker

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Being a twenty plus year middle management corporate guy team dynamics are probably the most important factor of a management team, pod, group.

One person can completely alter the team dynamic, just like in a locker room.

Everyone, well a couple of years ago, are working in close quarters and if one of your guys is Mas who becomes so offensive that he makes the office uncomfortable and kills the dynamics, possibly causing others to leave.

He gone.

There's a reason why most companies suggest you make business and life decisions like it will be reported on the front page of the wsj.

You represent the company brand and that's extremely valuable.
 

Stuffshot

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We are discussing one of the exceptions to Employment at Will. The public policy exception is stated on your link as follows:

Violation of Public Policy​

An employee cannot be terminated for reasons violating public policy. Examples include discharging an employee for: filing a worker's compensation claim, bringing or threatening a lawsuit, serving on a jury, engaging in lawful off-duty activities, refusing to commit perjury, whistleblower situations, etc.​
That's correct but I don't think Colorado law is different or unusual. The public policy exception doesn't protect employees from getting fired for a whole bunch of other reasons, almost unlimited.

If you go back through this thread, you'll see some posts that sounded like posters might think they couldn't/shouldn't be fired for any non-work related conduct at all or that employers could not impose a code of conduct that applied to its employees 24/7. The Colorado link I posted makes clear that, with only a few exceptions, an employer can terminate an employee for almost any reason or no reason at all. I think that's the law in most states and that's all I was pointing out. (The public policy exception is very limited.)
 

Marvin the Martian

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That's correct but I don't think Colorado law is different or unusual. The public policy exception doesn't protect employees from getting fired for a whole bunch of other reasons, almost unlimited.

If you go back through this thread, you'll see some posts that sounded like posters might think they couldn't/shouldn't be fired for any non-work related conduct at all or that employers could not impose a code of conduct that applied to its employees 24/7. The Colorado link I posted makes clear that, with only a few exceptions, an employer can terminate an employee for almost any reason or no reason at all. I think that's the law in most states and that's all I was pointing out. (The public policy exception is very limited.)
The secret is that people don't have to say why they are firing you. I have a lot of friends in corporate management who knew they were going to be pushed out before retirement age. Of course, firing someone for age is an issue. But it happens, they just don't call it that. A brother-in-law lost his job about 18 months ago due to reason number 1 in the list below (eliminating the position). They eliminated his position because they wanted to go in a different direction (from print to electronic). Sounds great, the world has moved that way. The person they hired with a new title is still doing print and their electronic presence isn't appreciably different. They print their main content to pdf and make the pdf available online. They were already doing that.

 

Stuffshot

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The secret is that people don't have to say why they are firing you. I have a lot of friends in corporate management who knew they were going to be pushed out before retirement age. Of course, firing someone for age is an issue. But it happens, they just don't call it that. A brother-in-law lost his job about 18 months ago due to reason number 1 in the list below (eliminating the position). They eliminated his position because they wanted to go in a different direction (from print to electronic). Sounds great, the world has moved that way. The person they hired with a new title is still doing print and their electronic presence isn't appreciably different. They print their main content to pdf and make the pdf available online. They were already doing that.

Bastards.
 

Stuffshot

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And don't forget, they pay them wayyyyy less. Guess we should be happy it's work still being done here as opposed to off shore.
Many of the suspiciously-dismissed people of retirement age might well be happy to keep working at a reduced wage or reduced hours ... but their bastard employers always refuse to offer that. It's always "We're sorry, but there's nothing we can do. Hit the road."

Such continued partial/reduced employment would allow the previously-acceptable employees to keep contributing to an IRA or maybe a 401(k) and might even save the bastard employers a few bucks of salary over the salary for an "accidentally-younger" worker.

Is there a legal reason the bastard employers can't/won't hire or continue to employ an employee of suspicious age they don't want to maintain at previous salary/benefits etc.?
 

TommyCracker

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The secret is that people don't have to say why they are firing you. I have a lot of friends in corporate management who knew they were going to be pushed out before retirement age. Of course, firing someone for age is an issue. But it happens, they just don't call it that. A brother-in-law lost his job about 18 months ago due to reason number 1 in the list below (eliminating the position). They eliminated his position because they wanted to go in a different direction (from print to electronic). Sounds great, the world has moved that way. The person they hired with a new title is still doing print and their electronic presence isn't appreciably different. They print their main content to pdf and make the pdf available online. They were already doing that.


I had an upper level hr friend tell me that he'd like to start a service of a too good to be true head hunter.

How it would work is you'd give him a list of the guys you want gone. He would head hunt them and recruit them to his fake company, taking them off your hands.

Then he'd release them within the first 90 days.

I mean yeah, that's gotta be illegal but you gotta admit, pretty genius concept.
 
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TommyCracker

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The secret is that people don't have to say why they are firing you. I have a lot of friends in corporate management who knew they were going to be pushed out before retirement age. Of course, firing someone for age is an issue. But it happens, they just don't call it that. A brother-in-law lost his job about 18 months ago due to reason number 1 in the list below (eliminating the position). They eliminated his position because they wanted to go in a different direction (from print to electronic). Sounds great, the world has moved that way. The person they hired with a new title is still doing print and their electronic presence isn't appreciably different. They print their main content to pdf and make the pdf available online. They were already doing that.

I'll try to read this later but the most common practice is to simply make your life a living hell.

As a manager for a couple years (I was in merchandising as a buyer so I had small support teams but there was a time climbing up the ladder that you had to manage a supply chain team) I absolutely hated having to put someone on watch, mainly because I had to be perfect myself to not be hypocritical.

It absolutely sucks and again, the team moral just goes into the toilet (no one talks, they just stay in their cubes trying to get through the tension on the team).

Puke.
 
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mcmurtry66

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I'll try to read this later but the most common practice is to simply make your life a living hell.

As a manager for a couple years (I was in merchandising as a buyer so I had small support teams but there was a time climbing up the ladder that you had to manage a supply chain team) I absolutely hated having to put someone on watch, mainly because I had to be perfect myself to not be hypocritical.

It absolutely sucks and again, the team moral just goes into the toilet (no one talks, they just stay in their cubes trying to get through the tension on the team).

Puke.
Constructive discharge. I’d do the same with dating
 

Marvin the Martian

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I am sure many states lack Colorado's law, who recalls the woman fired because she flipped off the Trump motorcade.

I had no problems with that, I am curious about CO and MTIOTF. Was she wrongly fired?
 

Joe_Hoopsier

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What about a guy going through a Chic-Fil-A drive through being a SJW. His on line presence was traced back to his employer who had to shut down operations for 3 days due to bomb threats? Keep or ditch? He even made MSM.
 

cosmickid

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The media deliberately ignored the opportunity to explain to the public what Jim Crow laws really were about and provide some useful information about the new Georgia law for public consumption. But nooooo. Protecting Biden was more important. In the long term good race relations, trust in government, trust in the media, and admiration of MLB all took an irreparable hit.
"The media deliberately ignored the opportunity to explain to the public what Jim Crow laws really were about and provide some useful information about the new Georgia law for public consumption. But nooooo. Protecting Biden was more important. In the long term good race relations, trust in government, trust in the media, and admiration of MLB all took an irreparable hit."

So I doubt if this is the type of "useful information for public consumption" you were referencing...


"The Georgia law had “eight key provisions that Heritage recommended,” Jessica Anderson, the executive director of Heritage Action for America, a sister organization of the Heritage Foundation, told the foundation’s donors at an April 22 gathering in Tucson, in a recording obtained by the watchdog group Documented and shared with Mother Jones. Those included policies severely restricting mail ballot drop boxes, preventing election officials from sending absentee ballot request forms to voters, making it easier for partisan workers to monitor the polls, preventing the collection of mail ballots, and restricting the ability of counties to accept donations from nonprofit groups seeking to aid in election administration."

Those are basically the opposite of the successful measures both Dems and Pubs agree with in Colorado, which is from what I read a bellweather for encouraging electoral Participation? So why should GA Pubs enact measures that only benefit GA Pub voters?

More from your post...

"More likely it was focused-grouped dishonesty created by his speech writers. In any event it was amplified by a media that was driven by an agenda instead of honest and factual reporting."

Well, I guess that is not quite comparable to Heritage Action BRAGGING about writing the bills and making them appear as "grassroots efforts"...

Evidently, someone's lying...

I'm still curious as to what "problem" you think the GA law addressed, and what benefits it provides.?IMHO, Trump voters distrusting the system because Trump has whined about the system prior to both elections which featured him running for office is an ARTIFICIAL (Trump made) problem...

Not sure being stupid enough to believe it when Trump claims "the only way I can lose is if they cheat" qualifies as anything more than Terminal Stupidity...Certainly not a problem that requires normal people to sacrifice to appease morons.

He already lost the popular vote in 2016 by almost 3 Million and he never even approached 50% popularity. That was an election when a lot of Dems didn't vote, so when he is even less popular 4 yrs later why is it unreasonable to admit he could EASILY lose. Why is an extremely UNPOPULAR candidate getting his butt whipped an "urgent crisis" that his party feels the need to address by Legislatively making it harder to vote?

It's hard for me to muster much support for people who swallow conspiracy theories, and then claim those problems (which only they adhere to) need to be remedied...
 

cosmickid

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I’ve seen video of this so called insurrection. It looked like a typical tourist visit to me.
I realize you're playing (and quoting Andy Clyde) but this revisionism has risen to ridiculous levels...

I know both parties have some real kooks in Congress, but I'm constantly amazed by how MANY the GOP has, esp in the House...

I mean it's like they've already got an All-Star lineup in place, but new candidates seem to appear out of thin air on an almost daily basis...

Be honest, how many of us had ever even heard of Andy Clyde or Jody Hice prior to them making public fools of themselves just yesterday?... I admit it, I don't think I'd ever heard those names prior to yesterday's nonsense...

Gosar is already an All-Star,and his own family knows he's looney tunes...But the others seem to be Minor League mid-season call-ups, desperate to retain a spot on Team Trump

Along with MTG, that gives GA the distinction of voting for The Three Stooges and electing them to office simultaneously... Congrats???

 
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Stuffshot

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I am sure many states lack Colorado's law, who recalls the woman fired because she flipped off the Trump motorcade.

I had no problems with that, I am curious about CO and MTIOTF. Was she wrongly fired?
I think the point to remember in the employment-at-will states is that an employer doesn't usually have to have any reason whatsoever to fire someone -- so it doesn't matter if the employer says its actual reason is flipping off Trump, smoking a joint outside work hours or posting pro-Kentucky material on a message board or, well, almost anything else.


The obvious public policy exceptions to the employer's right to do this include firing someone for reasons relating to sex, age, race or religion. Much of the time the employer's firing decision wasn't based on anything like that but, nonetheless, the disgruntled ex-employee thinks the employer has violated his "First Amendment right" that he assumed authorizes him to do or say anything he wants no matter if his employer objects. That's too broad -- the First Amendment has always had some content limitations plus it only restricts the government (not the employer).

The employee is in a difficult position when griping after-the-fact about the employer's reason to fire him. Education and intelligence would assist the employee greatly to avoid such situations beforehand but, alas, such things require patience and people don't have much patience now.
 
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CO. Hoosier

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"The media deliberately ignored the opportunity to explain to the public what Jim Crow laws really were about and provide some useful information about the new Georgia law for public consumption. But nooooo. Protecting Biden was more important. In the long term good race relations, trust in government, trust in the media, and admiration of MLB all took an irreparable hit."

So I doubt if this is the type of "useful information for public consumption" you were referencing...



"The Georgia law had “eight key provisions that Heritage recommended,” Jessica Anderson, the executive director of Heritage Action for America, a sister organization of the Heritage Foundation, told the foundation’s donors at an April 22 gathering in Tucson, in a recording obtained by the watchdog group Documented and shared with Mother Jones. Those included policies severely restricting mail ballot drop boxes, preventing election officials from sending absentee ballot request forms to voters, making it easier for partisan workers to monitor the polls, preventing the collection of mail ballots, and restricting the ability of counties to accept donations from nonprofit groups seeking to aid in election administration."

Those are basically the opposite of the successful measures both Dems and Pubs agree with in Colorado, which is from what I read a bellweather for encouraging electoral Participation? So why should GA Pubs enact measures that only benefit GA Pub voters?

More from your post...

"More likely it was focused-grouped dishonesty created by his speech writers. In any event it was amplified by a media that was driven by an agenda instead of honest and factual reporting."

Well, I guess that is not quite comparable to Heritage Action BRAGGING about writing the bills and making them appear as "grassroots efforts"...

Evidently, someone's lying...

I'm still curious as to what "problem" you think the GA law addressed, and what benefits it provides.?IMHO, Trump voters distrusting the system because Trump has whined about the system prior to both elections which featured him running for office is an ARTIFICIAL (Trump made) problem...

Not sure being stupid enough to believe it when Trump claims "the only way I can lose is if they cheat" qualifies as anything more than Terminal Stupidity...Certainly not a problem that requires normal people to sacrifice to appease morons.

He already lost the popular vote in 2016 by almost 3 Million and he never even approached 50% popularity. That was an election when a lot of Dems didn't vote, so when he is even less popular 4 yrs later why is it unreasonable to admit he could EASILY lose. Why is an extremely UNPOPULAR candidate getting his butt whipped an "urgent crisis" that his party feels the need to address by Legislatively making it harder to vote?

It's hard for me to muster much support for people who swallow conspiracy theories, and then claim those problems (which only they adhere to) need to be remedied...
If one were to remove the naïveté, partisanship, and irrelevances from your post there is nothing left. What Heritage says about the law is not the issue. Trump is not the issue. Conspiracy theories are not the issue. Colorado’s robust and secure mail vote system is not the issue. The Georgia law is not racist and is not unlike most other states.

If Georgia doesn’t want a 100% mail system like Colorado, there is nothing untoward or unconstitutional about that. Thats their choice. Most states don’t have it.

Voter registration, voter security, and efforts to rig the vote are as old as voting. There is nothing wrong with making the voting system more trustworthy without some idiot yakking about CONSPIRACY THEORIES! In 2020 the Democrats, using Covid as an excuse, pushed for reforms that made voting misconduct easier and harder to detect. What is wrong with legislation making misconduct more difficult? Even MLB requires a picture ID to pick up will-call tickets. Nobody says that is because of conspiracy theories or that the ID requirement must rest on known examples of ticket theft .

Joe Biden was deliberately misleading and inflammatory with his “Jim Crow on Steroids” horseshit. The media and MLB assisted on the play. many people got hurt as a result. This was all deliberate and it is an awful performance by government, media, and business.
 

Marvin the Martian

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If one were to remove the naïveté, partisanship, and irrelevances from your post there is nothing left. What Heritage says about the law is not the issue. Trump is not the issue. Conspiracy theories are not the issue. Colorado’s robust and secure mail vote system is not the issue. The Georgia law is not racist and is not unlike most other states.

If Georgia doesn’t want a 100% mail system like Colorado, there is nothing untoward or unconstitutional about that. Thats their choice. Most states don’t have it.

Voter registration, voter security, and efforts to rig the vote are as old as voting. There is nothing wrong with making the voting system more trustworthy without some idiot yakking about CONSPIRACY THEORIES! In 2020 the Democrats, using Covid as an excuse, pushed for reforms that made voting misconduct easier and harder to detect. What is wrong with legislation making misconduct more difficult? Even MLB requires a picture ID to pick up will-call tickets. Nobody says that is because of conspiracy theories or that the ID requirement must rest on known examples of ticket theft .

Joe Biden was deliberately misleading and inflammatory with his “Jim Crow on Steroids” horseshit. The media and MLB assisted on the play. many people got hurt as a result. This was all deliberate and it is an awful performance by government, media, and business.
Georgia has increased over the years the number of people per voting location in the Atlanta metro area. See article below, Forsythe has double the number they had in 2020 vs 2012. Georgia has just made it much harder to vote by other means. So surely this law increased the number of polling stations in Forsythe and other similar counties?

Or maybe Republicans intentionally want to make it harder to vote. It may not be racist in intent, but it is easy to do that in urban areas where it becomes racist in fact even if not in intent.

 

CO. Hoosier

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Georgia has increased over the years the number of people per voting location in the Atlanta metro area. See article below, Forsythe has double the number they had in 2020 vs 2012. Georgia has just made it much harder to vote by other means. So surely this law increased the number of polling stations in Forsythe and other similar counties?

Or maybe Republicans intentionally want to make it harder to vote. It may not be racist in intent, but it is easy to do that in urban areas where it becomes racist in fact even if not in intent.

NPR huh.

l8tnfkowx2y61.jpg

I didn’t see any meaningful discussion of the new law in your link. Probably because it was written before the new law was enacted.
 

Marvin the Martian

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NPR huh.

l8tnfkowx2y61.jpg

I didn’t see any meaningful discussion of the new law in your link. Probably because it was written before the new law was enacted.

I was pointing out that the new law did not, to my knowledge, add any new polling stations while at the same time made voting by other means harder or darn near impossible.

Since you disdainfully replied about NPR with no attempt to disprove the chart showing how numbers of people per precinct have grown in the metro area, let me ask you this deeply personal question. Why do some Republicans get hard ons thinking of people waiting in line to vote.

Now, you can refute NPRs numbers with facts, or you can answer about your sexual desires. Choose one
 

CO. Hoosier

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I was pointing out that the new law did not, to my knowledge, add any new polling stations while at the same time made voting by other means harder or darn near impossible.

Since you disdainfully replied about NPR with no attempt to disprove the chart showing how numbers of people per precinct have grown in the metro area, let me ask you this deeply personal question. Why do some Republicans get hard ons thinking of people waiting in line to vote.

Now, you can refute NPRs numbers with facts, or you can answer about your sexual desires. Choose one
The new law expands early voting. Unknown to me is whether the new law also increases the capacity at each site with additional funds. I recall that is included for large counties but can’t pin it down with a brief look.
 

F.Fletch

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Where I argue with people are the blanket statements, cancel culture/CRT is bad/evil. They both can be done well. In fact cancel culture has been around for a long time. Ask Jane Fonda.

I have no doubt both can be and are abused. Just as free speech is abused to lie about elections being stolen.
Ask Jane Fonda what???
Honestly, you think she was canceled?

She made 11 more movies after getting behind that anti-aircraft gun in Hanoi in 1972.
Not for the rest of her career.
The rest of the 1970's.

She was in two of the more popular films in the 1980's, 9 to 5 and On Golden Pond. She sold over 17 million of her workout videos.

Good grief.....we all should be "canceled" like Jane.

Wikipedia:
From comments ascribed to her in interviews, some have inferred that she personally blamed the situation on anger at her outspoken political views: "I can't say I was blacklisted, but I was greylisted."[30] However, in her 2005 autobiography, My Life So Far, she rejected such simplification. "The suggestion is that because of my actions against the war my career had been destroyed ... But the truth is that my career, far from being destroyed after the war, flourished with a vigor it had not previously enjoyed.
 

DANC

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Couple of things:
  1. Was this an issue when they did this to Trump? https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/10/18/military-brass-decry-trump-s-sexism
  2. I’ve never heard of any of these guys. Like zero
  3. The plurality of these are USAF and I would bet most of them are military intel officers. Intel officers are the desk jockey ass clowns that don’t set foot into battle and are almost universally conspiracy theorists.
Hell no it wasn't an issue when a bunch of political hacks did it to Trump.

But they get all apoplectic when it happens to their guy.

Just shows it was all political about Trump - this has always been about political power. Their hypocrisy is obvious.
 

DANC

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My favorite part:
"In the letter, the signatories, many of whom have been out of active service for decades, also addressed concerns over Biden's health. 'The mental and physical condition of the Commander-in-Chief cannot be ignored . . . '" So they were okay with the mental and physical condition of the guy Biden beat? Effing amazing.
When will Biden release all his medical records? Weren't you all concerned about Trump's?

Now that we have a babbling chimp in the Oval Office, you see nothing wrong with that.
 
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DANC

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It says that their website says "They pledge to support and defend the constitution (apparently not since they are attacking a fair election) against all enemies foreign and domestic". Did they comment about Trump's sedition or his minions attacking the capital?
Tell me when Stacey Abrams conceded and stopped contesting her loss.

You didn't say shit about that.
 

DANC

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How can I say this with tact: at a 100% positive rate, every intelligence officer with whom I dealt was not qualified to inform and brief a freshly-minted second lieutenant let alone generals. They are all conspiracy nut jobs that don’t understand statistics and are full of hunches.
Well, at least you're not stereotyping.

Guess what - I knew plenty of Infantry officers that couldn't tie their shoes without help.
 

Bowlmania

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When will Biden release all his medical records? Weren't you all concerned about Trump's?

Now that we have a babbling chimp in the Oval Office, you see nothing wrong with that.
When did I ever say anything Trump's medical records? Why do you make shit up? Why do you go off on these rants, where you lash out at a bunch of people in succession? What's wrong with you?

Trump is out of his mind, and I don't need medical documentation to know that.
 
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DrHoops

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I agree. The Left has lost their minds.

LOL.

Tell you what, when Democratic Congressmen start talking about Jewish lasers causing forest fires in California or that the POTUS is ruining America because they can't get the sauce they want from Chick-fil-A, let me know. How's that?

:rolleyes:
 
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DANC

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When did I ever say anything Trump's medical records? Why do you make shit up? Why do you go off on these rants, where you lash out at a bunch of people in succession? What's wrong with you?

Trump is out of his mind, and I don't need medical documentation to know that.
You said it and many others said it. I'm not making anything up. You conventiently forget about all the Trump rants you Leftists were on when it applies to Biden.

If you don't think Biden is in his right mind, you are blind.
 

DANC

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LOL.

Tell you what, when Democratic Congressmen start talking about Jewish lasers causing forest fires in California or that the POTUS is ruining America because they can't get the sauce they want from Chick-fil-A, let me know. How's that?

:rolleyes:
Tell you what. When Republicans are as anti-American as 'the Squad', who set the agenda for the Democrats, let me know.

Or maybe when a Republican Congressman warns that Guam may tip over because of too much military hardware. You want crazy? There it is.
You don't even want to get into a comparison of crazy statements.
 
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DrHoops

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Tell you what. When Republicans are as anti-American as 'the Squad', who set the agenda for the Democrats, let me know.

Or maybe when a Republican Congressman warns that Guam may tip over because of too much military hardware. You want crazy? There it is.

You don't even want to get into a comparison of crazy statements.
LOL!!!! You're living on another planet, my friend.
 
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