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Clarence Thomas

Bowlmania

All-American
Sep 23, 2016
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Why is he participating in the Trump cases? Why hasn't he recused himself?

Ginni Thomas, Thomas's wife, is an election denier, a pro-Trump conspirator and potentially a material witness in the election subversion case. Here's a quick review of the salient facts.

In the weeks following the November 2020 presidential election, Ginni Thomas texted Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on a number of occasions. The messages included imploring Meadows to prevent "Biden and the Left . . . from attempting the greatest Heist of our history" and begging Meadows to "save us from the left taking America down." She actively lobbied legislators in at least two battleground states to overturn Biden's win.

The Supreme Court's new Code of Ethics, which Roberts adopted under pressure last year after a string of publicized controversies involving primarily Clarence Thomas (more on that below), states that a Justice "should disqualify himself or herself in a proceeding in which the Justice's impartiality might reasonably be questioned." This is further characterized as a situation "where an unbiased and reasonable person who is aware of all relevant circumstances would doubt that the Justice could fairly discharge his or her duties."

Here's IU Legal Ethics Professor Charles Geyh, in an interview a while back, cutting to the chase: "I don't know how someone could be impartial when their spouse is part of the record that may be before the judge."

Why hasn't Clarence Thomas been sanctioned or even impeached?

I'm linking a ProPublica article below, and providing a few excerpts here.

"During his three decades on the Supreme Court, Clarence Thomas has enjoyed steady access to a lifestyle most Americans can only imagine . . . Like clockwork, Thomas’ leisure activities have been underwritten by benefactors who share the ideology that drives his jurisprudence. Their gifts include: At least 38 destination vacations, including a previously unreported voyage on a yacht around the Bahamas; 26 private jet flights, plus an additional eight by helicopter; a dozen VIP passes to professional and college sporting events, typically perched in the skybox; two stays at luxury resorts in Florida and Jamaica; and one standing invitation to an uber-exclusive golf club overlooking the Atlantic coast.

"While some of the hospitality, such as stays in personal homes, may not have required disclosure, Thomas appears to have violated the law by failing to disclose flights, yacht cruises and expensive sports tickets, according to ethics experts. Perhaps even more significant, the pattern exposes consistent violations of judicial norms, experts, including seven current and former federal judges appointed by both parties, told ProPublica. 'In my career I don’t remember ever seeing this degree of largesse given to anybody,' said Jeremy Fogel, a former federal judge who served for years on the judicial committee that reviews judges’ financial disclosures. 'I think it’s unprecedented.'

"Don Fox, the former general counsel of the U.S. Office of Government Ethics and the senior ethics official in the executive branch, said, 'It’s just the height of hypocrisy to wear the robes and live the lifestyle of a billionaire.' Taxpayers, he added, have the right to expect that Supreme Court justices are not living on the dime of others.

"Fox, who worked under both Democratic and Republican administrations, said he advised every new political appointee the same thing: Your wealthy friends are the ones you had before you were appointed. 'You don’t get to acquire any new ones,' he told them."

Clarence Thomas has clearly flouted ethical norms and quite possibly the law. And his wife, part of the election subversion story, is a potential witness in the case. It's outrageous that he's participating in the judicial review.

 
Why is he participating in the Trump cases? Why hasn't he recused himself?

Ginni Thomas, Thomas's wife, is an election denier, a pro-Trump conspirator and potentially a material witness in the election subversion case. Here's a quick review of the salient facts.

In the weeks following the November 2020 presidential election, Ginni Thomas texted Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on a number of occasions. The messages included imploring Meadows to prevent "Biden and the Left . . . from attempting the greatest Heist of our history" and begging Meadows to "save us from the left taking America down." She actively lobbied legislators in at least two battleground states to overturn Biden's win.

The Supreme Court's new Code of Ethics, which Roberts adopted under pressure last year after a string of publicized controversies involving primarily Clarence Thomas (more on that below), states that a Justice "should disqualify himself or herself in a proceeding in which the Justice's impartiality might reasonably be questioned." This is further characterized as a situation "where an unbiased and reasonable person who is aware of all relevant circumstances would doubt that the Justice could fairly discharge his or her duties."

Here's IU Legal Ethics Professor Charles Geyh, in an interview a while back, cutting to the chase: "I don't know how someone could be impartial when their spouse is part of the record that may be before the judge."

Why hasn't Clarence Thomas been sanctioned or even impeached?

I'm linking a ProPublica article below, and providing a few excerpts here.

"During his three decades on the Supreme Court, Clarence Thomas has enjoyed steady access to a lifestyle most Americans can only imagine . . . Like clockwork, Thomas’ leisure activities have been underwritten by benefactors who share the ideology that drives his jurisprudence. Their gifts include: At least 38 destination vacations, including a previously unreported voyage on a yacht around the Bahamas; 26 private jet flights, plus an additional eight by helicopter; a dozen VIP passes to professional and college sporting events, typically perched in the skybox; two stays at luxury resorts in Florida and Jamaica; and one standing invitation to an uber-exclusive golf club overlooking the Atlantic coast.

"While some of the hospitality, such as stays in personal homes, may not have required disclosure, Thomas appears to have violated the law by failing to disclose flights, yacht cruises and expensive sports tickets, according to ethics experts. Perhaps even more significant, the pattern exposes consistent violations of judicial norms, experts, including seven current and former federal judges appointed by both parties, told ProPublica. 'In my career I don’t remember ever seeing this degree of largesse given to anybody,' said Jeremy Fogel, a former federal judge who served for years on the judicial committee that reviews judges’ financial disclosures. 'I think it’s unprecedented.'

"Don Fox, the former general counsel of the U.S. Office of Government Ethics and the senior ethics official in the executive branch, said, 'It’s just the height of hypocrisy to wear the robes and live the lifestyle of a billionaire.' Taxpayers, he added, have the right to expect that Supreme Court justices are not living on the dime of others.

"Fox, who worked under both Democratic and Republican administrations, said he advised every new political appointee the same thing: Your wealthy friends are the ones you had before you were appointed. 'You don’t get to acquire any new ones,' he told them."

Clarence Thomas has clearly flouted ethical norms and quite possibly the law. And his wife, part of the election subversion story, is a potential witness in the case. It's outrageous that he's participating in the Trump election subversion matter.

Apparently there are no checks and balances when it comes to corruption on the Supreme court. They answer only to themselves.
 
Apparently there are no checks and balances when it comes to corruption on the Supreme court. They answer only to themselves.
"I HATE BLACK PEOPLE! Like f*ck them all . . . I hate blacks. End of story."

Corrupt Clarence sure can pick 'em.


 
"I HATE BLACK PEOPLE! Like f*ck them all . . . I hate blacks. End of story."

Corrupt Clarence sure can pick 'em.


 
"I HATE BLACK PEOPLE! Like f*ck them all . . . I hate blacks. End of story."

Corrupt Clarence sure can pick 'em.


Wow - that's pretty shocking. You'd think that clerking for a Supreme Court Justice would involve a high level of vetting that would have picked this stuff up. That said, sometimes finding people to hire who align with a far-right ideology sometimes means you rub elbows with people like this clerk.

That said, it wouldn't have taken too much to find this and disqualify her from clerking. It's not clear to me why she would be the best candidate for this role - something about her made her rise about what I'm assuming were multiple other candidates.
 
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I can get behind the idea of letting her rise above an error in judgement at age 20. And in some ways I think it's admirable that Clarence Thomas is offering her redemption and a fresh start.

That said, none of this is happening in a vacuum. With everything circling Clarence and Ginny Thomas, maybe not bringing this level of controversy upon themselves might've been wise.
 
Wow - that's pretty shocking. You'd think that clerking for a Supreme Court Justice would involve a high level of vetting that would have picked this stuff up. That said, sometimes finding people to hire who align with a far-right ideology sometimes means you rub elbows with people like this clerk.

That said, it wouldn't have taken too much to find this and disqualify her from clerking. It's not clear to me why she would be the best candidate for this role - something about her made her rise about what I'm assuming were multiple other candidates.
I'll cut you a deal. Let's find and fire who leaked the Dobbs decision first and then I'll be down with cutting this clerk loose.
 
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I'll cut you a deal. Let's find and fire who leaked the Dobbs decision first and then I'll be down with cutting this clerk loose.
After reading that Slate article Mark posted, I'm not even sure Clanton should be let go. I'm also not sure Clarence Thomas should have hired her either. I'm sure he can shoulder the criticism and maybe taking that on is admirable.

That said, there were probably more candidates without this type of baggage.
 
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I can get behind the idea of letting her rise above an error in judgement at age 20. And in some ways I think it's admirable that Clarence Thomas is offering her redemption and a fresh start.

That said, none of this is happening in a vacuum. With everything circling Clarence and Ginny Thomas, maybe not bringing this level of controversy upon themselves might've been wise.
(This is also in reply to Mark).

I get that to some extent, Guy. I made plenty of mistakes and errors in judgment at 20. I still make them today, just not as often. But hatred isn't a mistake or error in judgment. It's a mindset, an ingrained emotion that is difficult to move past.

The problem here is that, with her checkered past, she's going to be involved in decision-making at the nation's highest court. As noted in my New Yorker link: "[H]iring a young woman who was fired for racial bigotry, and who has never apologized for it, could scarcely send a worse message to Black litigants and lawyers, or do more to undermine the Court’s promise—carved into its building’s grand façade—to deliver 'Equal Justice Under Law.'” Just terrible optics.

And this: "With the help of some rather powerful patrons, and a weak judicial-ethics system, Crystal Clanton is on her way to clerk at the highest court in the land." With the ethics controversy swirling around Thomas, this looks like another serious error in judgment on his part.
 
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(This is also in reply to Mark).

I get that to some extent, Guy. I made plenty of mistakes and errors in judgment at 20. I still make them today, just not as often. But hatred isn't a mistake or error in judgment. It's a mindset, an ingrained emotion that is difficult to move past.

The problem here is that, with her checkered past, she's going to be involved in decision-making at the nation's highest court. As noted in my New Yorker link: "[H]iring a young woman who was fired for racial bigotry, and who has never apologized for it, could scarcely send a worse message to Black litigants and lawyers, or do more to undermine the Court’s promise—carved into its building’s grand façade—to deliver 'Equal Justice Under Law.'” Just terrible optics.

And this: "With the help of some rather powerful patrons, and a weak judicial-ethics system, Crystal Clanton is on her way to clerk at the highest court in the land." With the ethics controversy swirling around Thomas, this looks like another serious error in judgment on his part.
He's being led astray by his lovely wife Ginni. Not surprising given Ginni's past.

 
Wow - that's pretty shocking. You'd think that clerking for a Supreme Court Justice would involve a high level of vetting that would have picked this stuff up. That said, sometimes finding people to hire who align with a far-right ideology sometimes means you rub elbows with people like this clerk.

That said, it wouldn't have taken too much to find this and disqualify her from clerking. It's not clear to me why she would be the best candidate for this role - something about her made her rise about what I'm assuming were multiple other candidates.
There's more to the story. Clarence Thomas and his wife actually took this lady into their home, and she lived with them for quite a while and helped her get into law school. Neither of them believes that she actually posted those texts. They think it's "fake news" or that she was framed. I think that's the lady's story now. I doubt it since that was not her original story. People can say and do stupid things and atone for them. I don't know that she has.
 
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There's more to the story. Clarence Thomas and his wife actually took this lady into their home, and she lived with them for quite a while and helped her get into law school. Neither of them believes that she actually posted those texts. They think it's "fake news" or that she was framed. I think that's the lady's story now. I doubt it since that was not her original story. People can say and do stupid things and atone for them. I don't know that she has.
Thomas hates the media since his confirmation hearings, and it's not surprising he would label this fake news. But the reality is she was canned by Turning Point for making racist remarks, and the "I was framed by a co-worker" defense wasn't advanced until many years after the fact.

Everyone deserves a second chance, but that second chance doesn't have to be, nor should it be, the preeminent position for any recent law school graduate - - - a clerkship for a Justice of the Supreme Court. I explained why in 9 above. It's almost like the man just can't get out of his own way, and doesn't give a shit about appearances and ethics.
 
(This is also in reply to Mark).

I get that to some extent, Guy. I made plenty of mistakes and errors in judgment at 20. I still make them today, just not as often. But hatred isn't a mistake or error in judgment. It's a mindset, an ingrained emotion that is difficult to move past.

The problem here is that, with her checkered past, she's going to be involved in decision-making at the nation's highest court. As noted in my New Yorker link: "[H]iring a young woman who was fired for racial bigotry, and who has never apologized for it, could scarcely send a worse message to Black litigants and lawyers, or do more to undermine the Court’s promise—carved into its building’s grand façade—to deliver 'Equal Justice Under Law.'” Just terrible optics.

And this: "With the help of some rather powerful patrons, and a weak judicial-ethics system, Crystal Clanton is on her way to clerk at the highest court in the land." With the ethics controversy swirling around Thomas, this looks like another serious error in judgment on his part.
How is a law clerk involved in decision making at the Supreme Court?
 
How is a law clerk involved in decision making at the Supreme Court?
The Kid Down the Hall clerked for the Chief Justice of the Indiana State Supreme Court. He said that he wrote the decisions, based upon some guidelines from “the Chief,” which the Chief then revised as needed. But most of the work/writing on any decision was/is done by the clerks.
 
The Kid Down the Hall clerked for the Chief Justice of the Indiana State Supreme Court. He said that he wrote the decisions, based upon some guidelines from “the Chief,” which the Chief then revised as needed. But most of the work/writing on any decision was/is done by the clerks.
Yeah, I knew they do all the grunt work. Thats not “making” decisions.
 
How is a law clerk involved in decision making at the Supreme Court?
See below. The article is several years old but still relevant and applicable.

And in response to your #15, they don't make the ultimate decisions but they're very much involved in the process and can be highly influential.

 
See below. The article is several years old but still relevant and applicable.

And in response to your #15, they don't make the ultimate decisions but they're very much involved in the process and can be highly influential.

Right, like I said, they’re not making any decisions. That they can have influence is common sense to me.

I guess I don’t understand what your complaint is? The woman supposedly sent racist messages when she was 20, which she denies.

Are you afraid she’s going to slip racist language in the opinion or something?

You’ve made it very clear already that you consider the court to be stonewalling for Trump. Seems like you already consider them illegitimate.

Besides, she’s working for a black guy. If he’s ok with it, what the hell is it to you?

Seems like this is just partisan bleating from you.
 
Why is he participating in the Trump cases? Why hasn't he recused himself?

Ginni Thomas, Thomas's wife, is an election denier, a pro-Trump conspirator and potentially a material witness in the election subversion case. Here's a quick review of the salient facts.

In the weeks following the November 2020 presidential election, Ginni Thomas texted Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on a number of occasions. The messages included imploring Meadows to prevent "Biden and the Left . . . from attempting the greatest Heist of our history" and begging Meadows to "save us from the left taking America down." She actively lobbied legislators in at least two battleground states to overturn Biden's win.

The Supreme Court's new Code of Ethics, which Roberts adopted under pressure last year after a string of publicized controversies involving primarily Clarence Thomas (more on that below), states that a Justice "should disqualify himself or herself in a proceeding in which the Justice's impartiality might reasonably be questioned." This is further characterized as a situation "where an unbiased and reasonable person who is aware of all relevant circumstances would doubt that the Justice could fairly discharge his or her duties."

Here's IU Legal Ethics Professor Charles Geyh, in an interview a while back, cutting to the chase: "I don't know how someone could be impartial when their spouse is part of the record that may be before the judge."

Why hasn't Clarence Thomas been sanctioned or even impeached?

I'm linking a ProPublica article below, and providing a few excerpts here.

"During his three decades on the Supreme Court, Clarence Thomas has enjoyed steady access to a lifestyle most Americans can only imagine . . . Like clockwork, Thomas’ leisure activities have been underwritten by benefactors who share the ideology that drives his jurisprudence. Their gifts include: At least 38 destination vacations, including a previously unreported voyage on a yacht around the Bahamas; 26 private jet flights, plus an additional eight by helicopter; a dozen VIP passes to professional and college sporting events, typically perched in the skybox; two stays at luxury resorts in Florida and Jamaica; and one standing invitation to an uber-exclusive golf club overlooking the Atlantic coast.

"While some of the hospitality, such as stays in personal homes, may not have required disclosure, Thomas appears to have violated the law by failing to disclose flights, yacht cruises and expensive sports tickets, according to ethics experts. Perhaps even more significant, the pattern exposes consistent violations of judicial norms, experts, including seven current and former federal judges appointed by both parties, told ProPublica. 'In my career I don’t remember ever seeing this degree of largesse given to anybody,' said Jeremy Fogel, a former federal judge who served for years on the judicial committee that reviews judges’ financial disclosures. 'I think it’s unprecedented.'

"Don Fox, the former general counsel of the U.S. Office of Government Ethics and the senior ethics official in the executive branch, said, 'It’s just the height of hypocrisy to wear the robes and live the lifestyle of a billionaire.' Taxpayers, he added, have the right to expect that Supreme Court justices are not living on the dime of others.

"Fox, who worked under both Democratic and Republican administrations, said he advised every new political appointee the same thing: Your wealthy friends are the ones you had before you were appointed. 'You don’t get to acquire any new ones,' he told them."

Clarence Thomas has clearly flouted ethical norms and quite possibly the law. And his wife, part of the election subversion story, is a potential witness in the case. It's outrageous that he's participating in the judicial review.

So if Sotomayor’s wife is a liberal wacko who believes men can menstruate, we can force her off any Biden case?

EXCELLENT!
 
Right, like I said, they’re not making any decisions. That they can have influence is common sense to me.

I guess I don’t understand what your complaint is? The woman supposedly sent racist messages when she was 20, which she denies.

Are you afraid she’s going to slip racist language in the opinion or something?

You’ve made it very clear already that you consider the court to be stonewalling for Trump. Seems like you already consider them illegitimate.

Besides, she’s working for a black guy. If he’s ok with it, what the hell is it to you?

Seems like this is just partisan bleating from you.
..racist partisan projection
 
Right, like I said, they’re not making any decisions. That they can have influence is common sense to me.

I guess I don’t understand what your complaint is? The woman supposedly sent racist messages when she was 20, which she denies.

Are you afraid she’s going to slip racist language in the opinion or something?

You’ve made it very clear already that you consider the court to be stonewalling for Trump. Seems like you already consider them illegitimate.

Besides, she’s working for a black guy. If he’s ok with it, what the hell is it to you?

Seems like this is just partisan bleating from you.
I already explained why this is a bad look for the Court and for a justice in particular who is clearly ethically-challenged and has probably broken federal law by not disclosing "gifts" worth millions. The fact that "he's ok with" hiring someone at the Supreme Court who was fired from a previous job after screenshots of blatantly racist text messages from her phone were revealed is not ok.

I made the mistake of assuming you wanted to have a serious discussion. My bad.
 
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