Was it in the summer of 2020? Was it in the riots in 2016 and 2017? Is it in response to the Supreme Court decision on Roe? Why is the Jan 6th more compelling than any of the others?
A frightening survey
- Thread starter Marvin the Martian
- Start date
Maybe it is “disturbing,” but also understandable given the increasing intrusions by the government.
I get that they want to keep the same survey questions each time to track change in sentiment, but it would be interesting if they had some followup questions like this that changed depending on the time.
FWIW, I think the percentages for my followup and your first followup would be much lower on yes, for your second followup would be a little bit higher on yes, and the third followups would be substantially higher on yes.
Yeah and there isn't widespread support for the riot. There is just a vast amount of people refusing to go along with the chosen narrative.
If you don't think it was a God's honest coup and the worst thing to happen to democracy then you are a coup supporting Trumper. We are here to tar and feather, get on the bandwagon or get the tar and feather treatment yourself.
A very substantial minority, among GOP. 42% backed it or "were not sure" as of last month.
Among Republicans, 58 percent opposed the attack on the U.S. Capitol while 33 percent backed it and 9 percent said they were not sure.
New poll finds 33 percent of GOP support actions of Jan. 6 rioters
A third of the Republicans polled in a new survey said they supported the actions of supporters of former President Trump who broke into the Capitol building on Jan. 6, 2021. While the poll by Navi…
thehill.com
You shouldn't get so triggered. Those are good questions, too. So are MTIOF's. You and COH get awfully defensive when a question hits the mark.
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I'm not a gun. You ask questions, I ask some back that served as a partial response to the questions.
Coup? Anybody who believes a "coup" was in process on January 6 is under the influence.
If you think a few hundred people breaking through the ropes intent on violently disrupting a single session of the Congress (even one scheduled to certify an election), and being followed in by a few thousand duped tourists, is a "coup" - you need to revisit history. Or just stop being so stupidly partisan.
Wilson threw as many Suffragettes in prison as will go due to your "coup."
The Bonus Army Riots were closer to a coup than January 6.
The 1920 Wall Street bombings and 1954 Puerto Rican protest shootings in the House chamber were worse.
Obama's Weather Underground pals killed more people than January 6.
Coup?
Which portions of the military came out to assist or support the violence? Which generals gave support to the protests either before or after it became violent? If Trump had "ordered" the 101st to stop the election certification, do you think they would have deployed?
Your exaggeration and use of the term "coup" is dangerous, so stop. Worse, they show how easily you are manipulated.
A bunch of Trump supporters who believed an election had been stolen (gee, where would they get that novel idea in December 2021?) and a few Trump supporters willing to do violence in the streets to get their way (gee, where would they get THAT idea in December 2021?) walked over to the Capitol. Some went nuts. Most did not. It was not even close to a coup.
The violent mob was only part of the coup plot. The most ham-handed part, for sure, but other aspects of the coup had failed miserably.
Let's try to manufacture votes in Georgia.
Let's make false allegations and file lawsuits everywhere to rile up the base, in case we need them.
Let's assemble a fake slate of electors.
Let's pressure Pence to reject the real electors.
Oh wait, he won't do it... so let's physically prevent him from following through. Wait... he really ticks me off and "he deserves it" ( it= HANGING)
Every time you ever jaywalked you should’ve been arrested and thrown in jail. Chump.
I think acutely fascinating would be this poll question: Are you an Imbecile? One would think the affirmative response would be 0% but my hunch is it wouldn’t be.
You don't think Trump was looking for any way possible to stay in office despite losing the election? Clumsy and doomed as it was, the riot was part of his coup attempt.
I think he had a delusional idea that if the results were not certified on that specific day, there was a legal argument that he was still “in”, and it would give him time to “prove” shenanigans, and he was willing for others to be made to act violently, without ever really saying “go be violent” and with “plausible deniability,” so he could try and hang on.
Still not a coup.
Riot? Yes, depending on location.
Still not a coup.
The use of “coup” reveals a manipulator (a Trump, if you will), or a manipulated puppet.
Until the Trump‘s, Schumer's, Pelosi‘s and Waters’ are required to watch their phraseology, the national cannot heal. “Coup” is just another bullet fired at a political opponent.
You continue to focus narrowly on 2-4PM, Jan 6. That was JUST PART, the most ham-handed part, of the coup attempt.
Who was the manipulator on these aspects of the coup?...
Let's try to manufacture votes in Georgia.
Let's make false allegations and file lawsuits everywhere to rile up the base, in case we need them.
Let's assemble a fake slate of electors.
Let's pressure Pence to reject the real electors.
Then... yes... let's tell them to fight like hell for their country.
There was a clear leader of the attempted coup.
Open.
Your.
Eyes.
Gotcha. I'll only quibble with one piece of your post, and that's Pelosi. My impression is she's not one to say things she doesn't mean pretty literally. Of course, she's a politician and she's been around a long time so someone will probably give me an example of why I'm wrong.
Either tell me about the military involvement or shut up.
Without the Army, it was not a coup.
You have been brainwashed.
Seek psychiatric help.
So you don't like the use of the word coup. Fair enough. What word WOULD you think proper?
It was not a military coup. Not every coup is a military coup. Military coups are called...drum roll... "military coups". If every coup had to involve the military, then "military coup" would not exist in the English language. Duh...
And yes I know that historically speaking the word derives from coup d'etat. But definitions change over time, and this one has. You can look it up. I did.
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A survey was done of Americans on the government and politics. Some takeaways, bolding is mine.
Third is growing uncertainty about the stability and value of democracy in the US. Most Americans across the political spectrum now perceive a serious threat to democracy in the US.5, 6 At the same time, nearly 70% of adults—with very similar results for Democrats and Republicans—agree that “American democracy only serves the interests of the wealthy and powerful.”7 Approximately 20% of Republicans, conservatives, and voters for Donald Trump (and 9% of Democrats, liberals, and voters for Joe Biden) disagree with the statement that “democracy is [the] best form of government.”8Fourth is the expansion into the mainstream of American public opinion of extreme, false beliefs about American society. Approximately 1 adult in 5 endorses the core elements of the Q-Anon belief complex, that “government, media, and financial worlds in the US are controlled by a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles” (16%) and that “there is a storm coming soon that will sweep away the elites in power and restore the rightful leaders” (22%).9 Nearly 1 adult in 3 (32%) endorses the assertion that “a group of people in this country [is] trying to replace native-born Americans with immigrants.”10Fifth is growing support for the use of violence to accomplish political or social objectives. More than a third (36%) of American adults (56% of Republicans and 22% of Democrats) agree that “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”7 Nearly one-fifth of adults (18%) agree that “because things have gotten so far off track, true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country.”9More than two-thirds of respondents (67.2%, 95% CI 66.1%-68.4%) perceived “a serious threat to our democracy,” and 88.8% believed it is very or extremely important “for the United States to remain a democracy” (Table 2). But at the same time, 42.4% agreed with the statement that “having a strong leader for America is more important than having a democracy”; 19.0% agreed strongly or very strongly.
Views of American Democracy and Society and Support for Political Violence: First Report from a Nationwide Population-Representative Survey
Background Several social trends in the United States (US) suggest an increasing risk for political violence. Little is known about support for and personal willingness to engage in political violence and how those measures vary with lethality of violence, specific circumstances, or specific...www.medrxiv.org
the problem with surveys is, people lie.
and conservatives lie more than liberals do, it's just part of the inherent makeup of what makes one liberal and another conservative.
and notice i use liberal and conservative on the lying thing, not Dem and Pub.
while there are very few liberal Pubs, there are plenty of conservative Dems.
while no doubt there really is some small percent of Trumpers who actually believe Trump won and was robbed, i think the majority of Trumpers claiming Trump won are just lying, or realize there is at least as good or better of chance he lost as that he won.
just because a Trumper says they believe Trump actually won, doesn't mean they actually do.
Trump himself knows he probably lost.
most Trump supporters do too.
as for democracy, the less one believes they have the votes to win, the less enamored they are with democracy.
many conservatives would much prefer winning in less than democratic ways, than losing in a totally fair election.
and show it every day in their actions.
IGT, you state something (see below) which I would love to know but probably will never find out.
Trump himself knows he probably lost.
In the meantime I believe he buys into his own stuff and believes it. Then again, I remember how he made most of his money, and think he says anything which will achieve a goal.
The current goal being to be elected again in 2024.
I’ll give you a hint. Trump knew Covid was deadly and admitted as much in those interviews but then proceeded to engage in a charade throughout April on daily TV briefings.
The current goal is to continue the grift. He has a cult that is eager to line his pockets and adore him. As a cult leader he is somewhat like Jim Jones, except that Trump would charge them $100 per cup for the cyanide kool-aid.
Although I’ll promise you have multiple folks in the Water Cooler which believe Trump is going to save us from elites 😎
back in the early days of C-Span and for the decades that followed, callers to Washington Journal were often to mostly very knowledgeable people who had some insight into DC politics.
since Trump, the average Pub caller sounds like Granny Clampett.
the least politically knowledgeable and aware have become the most politically engaged.
they realize both the RNC and DNC have been selling them out for 40 plus yrs, so latched on to Trump feeling they had nowhere else to go after the DNC and their media kicked Bernie to the Curb in 16 and 20.
unfortunately for them they hitched their hopes to a snake who will never back them economically, just as many did with Reagan.
and being they aren't exactly the brightest individuals despite their passion, they just never do figure it out.
a working class individual being a huge fan of Reagan or Trump is insanity, just as with working class blacks worshiping Obama, who totally sold them out as well.
what's so sad about this gif, is how much it actually does reflect those who have totally misplaced their passion and trust, and just never do figure it out no matter how many whacks they take.
since Trump, the average Pub caller sounds like Granny Clampett.
the least politically knowledgeable and aware have become the most politically engaged.
they realize both the RNC and DNC have been selling them out for 40 plus yrs, so latched on to Trump feeling they had nowhere else to go after the DNC and their media kicked Bernie to the Curb in 16 and 20.
unfortunately for them they hitched their hopes to a snake who will never back them economically, just as many did with Reagan.
and being they aren't exactly the brightest individuals despite their passion, they just never do figure it out.
a working class individual being a huge fan of Reagan or Trump is insanity, just as with working class blacks worshiping Obama, who totally sold them out as well.
what's so sad about this gif, is how much it actually does reflect those who have totally misplaced their passion and trust, and just never do figure it out no matter how many whacks they take.
'We' have never had a democracy.
The FF knew that democracy is just another, slightly less restrictive form of socialism.
'I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the USA
and to the Republic for which it stands,
One nation under God...'
Remember?
Remember
A
anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I think the problem with the word "coup" is that it just doesn't seem to fit our form of government or national attitudes. From my reading of the definition, a coup has to be: (1) quick; (2) decisive; (3) violent; and (4) illegal (I think 3 might necessarily imply 4 in the U.S.?).
Power is separated among diverse institutions in the U.S., unlike in systems with concentrated power in an old-time king, emperor, or today's military dictatorships. Because of this, it is almost impossible to think of a method of quickly seizing all the power that would be needed to set oneself up as a dictator now in the U.S. Without a doubt, you'd need the backing of the military generals. But even then, what do you do about the courts? The Congress? The separate states?
I have a lot of friends in the military. None would support such an action, so I think you'd get the rank and file fighting with the higher-ups if this was attempted. I'd also imagine millions of civilians being horrified and taking up arms (of which we have plenty, as we all agree)--I certainly would.
Re what one word to describe this, I don't know. It seems more complicated than that. I guess I'd use "tantrum," but that doesn't really fit the gravity of (1) the riot or (2) the damage I think Trump did to the system by continuing to argue widespread fraud in our electoral system without much evidence for same (and I think the second is far worse than the first in terms of how if affects our country going forward).
However you parse it, you need to define the intent of the riot (if that's what you want to call it).
Was it merely to express extreme displeasure with a perceived wrong? That, at one time, seemed reasonable.
But now it's also crystal clear that it was also very specifically intended to interrupt, and indefinitely postpone, a legal proceeding that is absolutely REQUIRED to take place for there to be a transition of power. Moreover, there was an accompanying plan (slates of fake electors) to permanently impede the transition of power that the people of the USA had legally mandated.
I don't see how seeking to block a voter-mandated transition of power is not an attempted coup. It is an overthrow of one of the most important, critical, and remarkable aspects of a stable democracy.
Was it merely to express extreme displeasure with a perceived wrong? That, at one time, seemed reasonable.
But now it's also crystal clear that it was also very specifically intended to interrupt, and indefinitely postpone, a legal proceeding that is absolutely REQUIRED to take place for there to be a transition of power. Moreover, there was an accompanying plan (slates of fake electors) to permanently impede the transition of power that the people of the USA had legally mandated.
I don't see how seeking to block a voter-mandated transition of power is not an attempted coup. It is an overthrow of one of the most important, critical, and remarkable aspects of a stable democracy.
It is not a full economy if you understood economics because people drop out if they don't find a job soon enough. Look at the % of the job market and we are far away from a full economy. The unemployment rate isn't accurate enough to measure full employment.
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