You think your taxes are complicated now

[NPT]

What if the IRS could tax unrealize gains?

The stakes are high as Supreme Court considers this obscure, unconstitutional tax - Washington Examiner

Beltway Confidential The stakes are high as Supreme Court considers this obscure, unconstitutional tax By David McGarry November 03, 2023 07:12 AM Twitter LinkedIn Facebook Email Print Beltway Confidential The stakes are high as Supreme Court considers this obscure, unconstitutional tax By David...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[BoardFreshFace]

Why don’t you want to pay your fair share? Don’t you want things to be fair?

 

[NPT]

Why don’t you want to pay your fair share? Don’t you want things to be fair?

Nobody knows what their fair share is other than MORE.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

What if the IRS could tax unrealize gains?

The stakes are high as Supreme Court considers this obscure, unconstitutional tax - Washington Examiner

Beltway Confidential The stakes are high as Supreme Court considers this obscure, unconstitutional tax By David McGarry November 03, 2023 07:12 AM Twitter LinkedIn Facebook Email Print Beltway Confidential The stakes are high as Supreme Court considers this obscure, unconstitutional tax By David...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

The Supreme Court is set to determine whether Congress , for the purposes of taxation, may classify unrealized capital gains as “income.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


capital gains are income. DUH!

the fact one lets it ride instead of cashing in, doesn't make it less so.

the idea that income derived from investing, which accounts for most income of the rich, is taxed far less, or deferred indefinitely, or both, is nothing more than totally screwing over the working man to benefit the investor class, and everyone knows it.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I wonder if this would affect mutual funds and etfs that invest in international companies?

I have about 20% of my retirement in an international index fund and emerging markets.

The tax obviously needs to go because the government has no business taxing money made OCONUS. They even tax citizens who work and live abroad even if they don't spend a day in the US.

And to tax retroactively to 1987 is ridiculous. That's 36 years of taxation in one bill. That's straight up theft.

 

[Cthulhu85]

The Supreme Court is set to determine whether Congress , for the purposes of taxation, may classify unrealized capital gains as “income.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


capital gains are income. DUH!

the fact one lets it ride instead of cashing in, doesn't make it less so.

the idea that income derived from investing, which accounts for most income of the rich, is taxed far less, or deferred indefinitely, or both, is nothing more than totally screwing over the working man to benefit the investor class, and everyone knows it.

You missed the unrealized part. What happens when they sell the stock? They going to get taxed again?

The working man can invest and will pay the same capital gains percentage. Want to screw the working man? Increase the capital gains tax rate.

 

[NPT]

The Supreme Court is set to determine whether Congress , for the purposes of taxation, may classify unrealized capital gains as “income.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


capital gains are income. DUH!

the fact one lets it ride instead of cashing in, doesn't make it less so.

the idea that income derived from investing, which accounts for most income of the rich, is taxed far less, or deferred indefinitely, or both, is nothing more than totally screwing over the working man to benefit the investor class, and everyone knows it.

Bull.... you don't have anything until you sell it. I've had stocks that went from $100/share to $150/share but I held on to it and something bad happened and it dropped to around $80/share. Depending when I sold it I either made money or lost money. If I had sold it a $150 then I made money but I sold it at $80 so I lost money. And knowing the government investors would get screwed like they do now in the fact that if you sold stocks in 2023 and made $100,000 you have to claim all $100,000 as income BUT if you lost $100,000 you can't claim all $100,000 as a lost.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

You missed the unrealized part. What happens when they sell the stock? They going to get taxed again?

The working man can invest and will pay the same capital gains percentage. Want to screw the working man? Increase the capital gains tax rate.

The Supreme Court is set to determine whether Congress , for the purposes of taxation, may classify unrealized capital gains as “income.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


capital gains are income. DUH!

the fact one lets it ride instead of cashing in, doesn't make it less so.

the idea that income derived from investing, which accounts for most income of the rich, is taxed far less, or deferred indefinitely, or both, is nothing more than totally screwing over the working man to benefit the investor class, and everyone knows it.

i did not.

your inability to read and comprehend isn't my problem.

the rest of your BS post was just an out and out lie.

i totally get where you're coming from though.

you think the working class should pay your share of the tax burden.

 

[outside shooter]

Taxing unrealized capital gains is stupid.

Tangible, realized capital gains ought to be taxed, and at an income tax rate, unless the investment is part of a retirement account.

Do you think most billionaires became billionaires due to super-high salaries? No, it's more often due to stock compensation and huge windfalls taxed at a very low rate.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Bull.... you don't have anything until you sell it. I've had stocks that went from $100/share to $150/share but I held on to it and something bad happened and it dropped to around $80/share. Depending when I sold it I either made money or lost money. If I had sold it a $150 then I made money but I sold it at $80 so I lost money. And knowing the government investors would get screwed like they do now in the fact that if you sold stocks in 2023 and made $100,000 you have to claim all $100,000 as income BUT if you lost $100,000 you can't claim all $100,000 as a lost.

you can't be that stupid, so i'll assume you're being dishonest.

if you win a bet, let the winnings ride, and later lose what you previously had won, that doesn't mean you never won it in the first place, which is the total BS you're trying to push here.

 

[NPT]

Tangible, realized capital gains ought to be taxed, and at an income tax rate

I partially agree with that. However I think we need to encourage the average person to invest and a lower rate is one way to do that but I do think there should be a limit to the amount that is taxed at a lower rate. For example (and these are just made up numbers) tax the first $50,000 at the lower rate and anything above that at the normal tax rate.

 

[UncleMark]

One of the Clay & Buck guys said today he got an audit notice in the mail this week. Of course, since he'd never gotten audited before and didn't have a huge amount of inherited wealth or investment returns, the only reason that could have happened is that he'd been singled out for his politics.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Taxing unrealized capital gains is stupid.

Tangible, realized capital gains ought to be taxed, and at an income tax rate, unless the investment is part of a retirement account.

Do you think most billionaires became billionaires due to super-high salaries? No, it's more often due to stock compensation and huge windfalls taxed at a very low rate.

only taxing realized gains, allows the wealthy to defer their tax burden indefinitely, while also realizing gains from money that should have gone to taxes, but didn't, because said taxes were deferred indefinitely, rather than paid as the gains were earned, as is the case with all labor.

obviously the investor class has absolutely zero interest in actual fairness.

much better to force the tax burden on to the working class.

 

[NPT]

you can't be that stupid, so i'll assume you're being dishonest.

if you win a bet, let the winnings ride, and later lose what you previously had won, that doesn't mean you never won it in the first place, which is the total BS you're trying to push here.

Get your head out of your butt so you can see. Investing is nothing like a bet. A bet is decided at one moment in time whereas investing in a stock can be a long term thing. What's is magic about saying that unrealized gain is determine by the value of a stock on Dec 31th when on Jan 10th it might be worth 10% less.

 

[Cthulhu85]

i did not.

your inability to read and comprehend isn't my problem.

the rest of your BS post was just an out and out lie.

i totally get where you're coming from though.

you think the working class should pay your share of the tax burden.

What I meant was YOU missed it as in didn't read it or willfully ignored it.

I am working class. Investments are probably the only area where taxation is close to equal at any income level.

How was the rest of my post a lie?

 

[NPT]

One of the Clay & Buck guys said today he got an audit notice in the mail this week. Of course, since he'd never gotten audited before and didn't have a huge amount of inherited wealth or investment returns, the only reason that could have happened is that he'd been singled out for his politics.

Have you ever been audited or know anyone who has?

 

[outside shooter]

only taxing realized gains, allows the wealthy to defer their tax burden indefinitely, while also realizing gains from money that should have gone to taxes, but didn't, because said taxes were deferred indefinitely, rather than paid as the gains were earned, as is the case with all labor.

obviously the investor class has absolutely zero interest in actual fairness.

much better to force the tax burden on to the working class.

The wealthy are generally living high on the hog by steadily selling off investments. In fact securities /insider trading rules won't allow you to just sell willy-nilly when you want to. They sell on a pre-programmed schedule or through a blind trust.

If Bill Gates makes a million next week off of selling a stock, and if he makes another million off of salary, each million should be taxed at the same rate. But it isn't.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I partially agree with that. However I think we need to encourage the average person to invest and a lower rate is one way to do that but I do think there should be a limit to the amount that is taxed at a lower rate. For example (and these are just made up numbers) tax the first $50,000 at the lower rate and anything above that at the normal tax rate.

or we need to encourage the investor class to work, and the only way to do that is to tax labor at a much lower rate than investment income.

oh how self entitled and self serving the investor class is.

all they care about is what benefits them, and fk everyone else.

no doubt it's not personal. just business.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I'm not sure on this but are investments that are inherited taxed by the inheritance tax?

That's probably one area where I wouldn't oppose some sort of tax.

 

[UncleMark]

Have you ever been audited or know anyone who has?

I never have, but my parents were once. And they had it coming. They tried some "creative" stuff and got shot down.

 

[Cthulhu85]

or we need to encourage the investor class to work, and the only way to do that is to tax labor at a much lower rate than investment income.

oh how self entitled and self serving the investor class is.

all they care about is what benefits them, and fk everyone else.

no doubt it's not personal. just business.

The investor class is partially responsible for creating jobs for the working class.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

The wealthy are generally living high on the hog by steadily selling off investments. In fact securities /insider trading rules won't allow you to just sell willy-nilly when you want to. They sell on a pre-programmed schedule or through a blind trust.

If Bill Gates makes a million next week off of selling a stock, and if he makes another million off of salary, each million should be taxed at the same rate. But it isn't.

the rich don't have to sell stock when they don't want to.

if they need capital, they can just borrow against their stock, write off any interest as a business expense, and never need to realize any gains until they wish to, which can be after they die if they want.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

The investor class is partially responsible for creating jobs for the working class.

the working class drives ALL investment income.

 

[UncleMark]

I partially agree with that. However I think we need to encourage the average person to invest and a lower rate is one way to do that but I do think there should be a limit to the amount that is taxed at a lower rate. For example (and these are just made up numbers) tax the first $50,000 at the lower rate and anything above that at the normal tax rate.

The "average" person doesn't think that far. Joe six-pack looks at his take home pay and it's like pulling teeth to get him to even consider voluntarily reducing that. Too many of those who do sign up for their 401K or whatever option they have available will only put in a token amount. That might work if you start early, but if you're pushing 50 and are finally waking up to the fact that you're going to be unable to retire comfortably, then you have to contribute until it hurts. Capital gains taxes is the last thing they are concerned with. Take it from someone who knows.

 

[GigGoo]

the working class drives ALL investment income.

The working class wouldn’t have jobs without the investment class.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Just a question out of curiosity. From a moderation standpoint, is it actually cool to call other posters dishonest or liars for disagreeing with you?

 

[outside shooter]

I'm not sure on this but are investments that are inherited taxed by the inheritance tax?

That's probably one area where I wouldn't oppose some sort of tax.

They are if above a certain amount, IIRC. Just weeks ago my wife inherited leftover accounts from her deceased parents but the amount as not huge and below the level to be taxed as inheritance. They were retirement accounts so I think she is required to take the minumum distributions that her mother would have had to take, and pay captital gains when taking those distributions (as far as I know, I tried to stay out of the wife / brother-in-law and / sister-in-law estate sniping)

 

[Cthulhu85]

the working class drives ALL investment income.

Where do you think the money comes from to create or expand businesses that provide working class jobs?

Investors.

Communism is worse for working class people. Capitalism is the way.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Get your head out of your butt so you can see. Investing is nothing like a bet. A bet is decided at one moment in time whereas investing in a stock can be a long term thing. What's is magic about saying that unrealized gain is determine by the value of a stock on Dec 31th when on Jan 10th it might be worth 10% less.

get your head out of everyone else's butt.

just keep up the lies.

that's all you've got.

if a working person deposits his check in savings instead of cashing it, that doesn't relieve him of paying taxes on his earnings because he didn't cash out.

it would be impossible to be any more selfish, self serving, and self absorbed, than the investor class.

 

[Univee2]

The Supreme Court is set to determine whether Congress , for the purposes of taxation, may classify unrealized capital gains as “income.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


capital gains are income. DUH!

the fact one lets it ride instead of cashing in, doesn't make it less so.

the idea that income derived from investing, which accounts for most income of the rich, is taxed far less, or deferred indefinitely, or both, is nothing more than totally screwing over the working man to benefit the investor class, and everyone knows it.

Good grief.

More from the Comintern.

The value of your house goes up . . .you’re taxed.

The value of your car goes up . . you’re taxed.

The value of your vinyl album collection goes up . . . you’re taxed.

What a wonderful world it would be . . . . .

 

[i'vegotwinners]

The working class wouldn’t have jobs without the investment class.

not necessarily true in the slightest, but truth isn't your thing anyway.

that said, there would be zero investment income absent the working class.

 

[Cthulhu85]

get your head out of everyone else's butt.

just keep up the lies.

that's all you've got.

if a working person deposits his check in savings instead of cashing it, that doesn't relieve him of paying taxes on his earnings because he didn't cash out.

it would be impossible to be any more selfish, self serving, and self absorbed, than the investor class.

Your problem should be with the income tax not capital gains.

 

[UncleMark]

Just a question out of curiosity. From a moderation standpoint, is it actually cool to call other posters dishonest or liars for disagreeing with you?

It depends on my mood, whether or not the poster is a lib or a con, and whether the poster is nutz or not.

 

[Univee2]

The Supreme Court is set to determine whether Congress , for the purposes of taxation, may classify unrealized capital gains as “income.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


capital gains are income. DUH!

the fact one lets it ride instead of cashing in, doesn't make it less so.

the idea that income derived from investing, which accounts for most income of the rich, is taxed far less, or deferred indefinitely, or both, is nothing more than totally screwing over the working man to benefit the investor class, and everyone knows it.

Good grief.

More from the Comintern.

 

[Cthulhu85]

not necessarily true in the slightest, but truth isn't your thing anyway.

that said, there would be zero investment income absent the working class.

So where would the jobs come from?

There would be no working class with out an investor class. Unless you think the government should operate businesses.

I'd bet you'd love a Russian engineered and manufactured car.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Good grief.

More from the Comintern.

The value of your house goes up . . .you’re taxed.

The value of your car goes up . . you’re taxed.

The value of your vinyl album collection goes up . . . you’re taxed.

What a wonderful world it would be . . . . .

sounds like desperation from the nazi.

try upping your game.

 

[hookyIU1990]

It depends on my mood, whether or not the poster is a lib or a con, and whether the poster is nutz or not.

Surfside is off his meds, so I assume Commie Lib/nutz+/great mood is in play here.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

only taxing realized gains, allows the wealthy to defer their tax burden indefinitely, while also realizing gains from money that should have gone to taxes, but didn't, because said taxes were deferred indefinitely, rather than paid as the gains were earned, as is the case with all labor.

obviously the investor class has absolutely zero interest in actual fairness.

much better to force the tax burden on to the working class.

What??

 

[Univee2]

sounds like desperation from the nazi.

try upping your game.

LOL.

My God, but you’re a classic.

”Nazi” is such a cool retort. You didn’t even capitalize it.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

So where would the jobs come from?

There would be no working class with out an investor class. Unless you think the government should operate businesses.

I'd bet you'd love a Russian engineered and manufactured car.

nice false propaganda bullshit, which is obviously all you got.

no one is lobbying against investing.

take your lies elsewhere.