We Have Some Competition For Our New OC

[Tegray1]

Our HC was 14 out of 14 in salary.
We now have 0 assistants making over 500,000
We had 9 coaches instead of 10.
We had 2 assistants making under 200,000
Top 50 recruiting class in 2017 and 2018.

Yes, I have the same evidence (or lack thereof) that you do, but you are the one that is making the most demonstrative conclusions from no evidence. Yes I am using the word "could," I'm just pointing out you should be using similar terminology

 

[turney333]

Our HC was 14 out of 14 in salary.
We now have 0 assistants making over 500,000
We had 9 coaches instead of 10.
We had 2 assistants making under 200,000
Top 50 recruiting class in 2017 and 2018.

If you believe in Tom Allen like you said you do, then why does his salary matter? he's being paid commensurate with experience

No assistants over 500k? That will change when we hire an OC

9 assistants? Seriously? See above

 

[coachv jr]

We had a 3 year starting safety who had a terrible year. Was Crawford even BIG 10 honorable mention? What changed from 2017 to 2018? The safety coach and depth. Bryant and Fitzgerald were in the program. Bryant and played some. Fant graduated, Andre Brown had a bad year also.

Tom Allen said after Minnesota game. "Your best players need to play good" He was talking about Crawford.

yeah, what happened to crawford. he sure looks the part. he couldn't tackle for sh!t

 

[Tegray1]

Because I want my coach to be paid. If he ever has the chance to leave he will remember being 14 out of 14.

TA addressed that we had one less coach and that affected recruiting. Another reason to have a 10th coach.

 

[DANC]

This should not be so difficult. Just bring in an OC who will play two All- American offensive tackles, an NFL quarterback and running back.That worked for CKW.

So obvious.... lol

 

[coachv jr]

Our HC was 14 out of 14 in salary.
We now have 0 assistants making over 500,000
We had 9 coaches instead of 10.
We had 2 assistants making under 200,000
Top 50 recruiting class in 2017 and 2018.

do you trust allen to identify bright young talent coming up in coaching? if he gives them their first opportunity are you suggesting they make more than $200k? are you happy with the womack hire? it's his first dc job at this level. should he start at over a half million per year as an unproven dc? just throwing salaries around as the root of our football program's problem is short sighted.

 

[coachv jr]

Because I want my coach to be paid. If he ever has the chance to leave he will remember being 14 out of 14.

TA addressed that we had one less coach and that affected recruiting. Another reason to have a 10th coach.

but why did we have one less coach. did glass put is foot down and say "no more coaches!" there is not enough context in your arguments

 

[Tegray1]

I think these are also important issues he needs to have some control of not Glass.

Hagen at 400,000 is probably underpaid but Wommack probably wouldn't be. Can you have your DC make less? Make Hagen ASST HC so he makes more?

I do trust TA to identify the chemistry and coaching talent he needs. If you are going to fire him eventually he needs to have some control.

do you trust allen to identify bright young talent coming up in coaching? if he gives them their first opportunity are you suggesting they make more than $200k? are you happy with the womack hire? it's his first dc job at this level. should he start at over a half million per year as an unproven dc? just throwing salaries around as the root of our football program's problem is short sighted.

 

[JohnsyRick]

but why did we have one less coach. did glass put is foot down and say "no more coaches!" there is not enough context in your arguments

We didn’t, not sure where he is getting his numbers ?
DeBord, Hagen, Hart, Heard, Hiller, Inge, Shelby, Sheridan, Teegardin and Wommack . (10)

 

[Tegray1]

Only TA and Glass know why. Did TA have to save money to pay the other assistants by taking one less coach? Who knows? Was that his salary pool for football staff and he used it to pay the other staff?

All of a sudden we are doubling the salary of Ballou and Rhea. What has changed? Did McRobbie keep his hands out of the BIG money this year? A lot of unknowns.

but why did we have one less coach. did glass put is foot down and say "no more coaches!" there is not enough context in your arguments

 

[Tegray1]

I'm not sure of all the rules. TA said when he first addressed the decision to stop calling the defense and hiring a DC that it would give them another coach for recruiting. He didn't elaborate on why that would be?

We didn’t, not sure where he is getting his numbers ?
DeBord, Hagen, Hart, Heard, Hiller, Inge, Shelby, Sheridan, Teegardin and Wommack . (10)

 

[coachv jr]

I think these are also important issues he needs to have some control of not Glass.

Hagen at 400,000 is probably underpaid but Wommack probably wouldn't be. Can you have your DC make less? Make Hagen ASST HC so he makes more?

I do trust TA to identify the chemistry and coaching talent he needs. If you are going to fire him eventually he needs to have some control.

if you agree womack doesn't yet merit $500k+ salary then you should stop complaining about our low salaried coordinators

 

[turney333]

Only TA and Glass know why. Did TA have to save money to pay the other assistants by taking one less coach? Who knows? Was that his salary pool for football staff and he used it to pay the other staff?

All of a sudden we are doubling the salary of Ballou and Rhea. What has changed? Did McRobbie keep his hands out of the BIG money this year? A lot of unknowns.

Ballou and Rhea were probably offered positions at other schools, so we boosted pay to retain them.

Goes something like

School X to Ballou: You are making 215k now at IU, how much money would we need to offer to come to School X.
Ballou: $350k
School X: sure we can do that

Ballou to Allen: School X just offered me $350k
Allen: Ok, we can match that and add 50k

Ballou to School X: IU just countered with $400k
School X: Well, good luck to you

 

[76-1]

Because I want my coach to be paid. If he ever has the chance to leave he will remember being 14 out of 14.

TA addressed that we had one less coach and that affected recruiting. Another reason to have a 10th coach.

You really need to catch up.

We had a 10th coach all last season (as soon as it was legal to have one)...

 

[Tegray1]

I will leave that to TA. TA is still the DC except not calling on game day. My argument is really Hagen deserves more than 400,000 so we keep him. Wommack will eventually have to be paid if successful. Did I say I want a better secondary coach?

if you agree womack doesn't yet merit $500k+ salary then you should stop complaining about our low salaried coordinators

 

[Tegray1]

Osterman's article said they hadn't been approached yet but it was to try to prevent that from happening.

Ballou and Rhea were probably offered positions at other schools, so we boosted pay to retain them.

Goes something like

School X to Ballou: You are making 215k now at IU, how much money would we need to offer to come to School X.
Ballou: $350k
School X: sure we can do that

Ballou to Allen: School X just offered me $350k
Allen: Ok, we can match that and add 50k

Ballou to School X: IU just countered with $400k
School X: Well, good luck to you

 

[Tegray1]

Yeah the great Secondary Coach we got since we didn't miss Noah Joseph because Chase Dutra and Tony Fields were NFL All-Rookie this year correct? We went through this before.

You really need to catch up.

We had a 10th coach all last season (as soon as it was legal to have one)...

 

[turney333]

Osterman's article said they hadn't been approached yet but it was to try to prevent that from happening.

Osterman's article specifically states

"The raises, offered according to Glass because of heavy interest in both men from other college and NFL programs, are expected to land both men among the 20 highest-paid strength and conditioning (or in Rhea’s case, speed) coaches in college football, according to a USA Today database."

Maybe they didn't do
formal interviews, but it does sound like they had been approached

 

[76-1]

Yeah the great Secondary Coach we got since we didn't miss Noah Joseph because Chase Dutra and Tony Fields were NFL All-Rookie this year correct? We went through this before.

Today, at 11:45am, you had in your post above: "We had 9 coaches instead of 10."

Coffee might help..., then again maybe not...

 

[turney333]

I will leave that to TA. TA is still the DC except not calling on game day. My argument is really Hagen deserves more than 400,000 so we keep him. Wommack will eventually have to be paid if successful. Did I say I want a better secondary coach?

Hagen's $400k is a result of hefty raises for 3 consecutive years

He was making $260k at A&M in 2015, and we paid him $300k to bring him here for 2016. He then got a 20k raise for 2017 and a 80k raise for 2018 probably as a result of other offers. I'm sure he will get another raise if he gets another offer (may have already gotten a raise that hasn't been announced/finalized).

 

[Tegray1]

The outdated article you posted said we had 9 and other staffs had 10.

Today, at 11:45am, you had in your post above: "We had 9 coaches instead of 10."

Coffee might help..., then again maybe not...

 

[coachv jr]

I will leave that to TA. TA is still the DC except not calling on game day. My argument is really Hagen deserves more than 400,000 so we keep him. Wommack will eventually have to be paid if successful. Did I say I want a better secondary coach?

secondary was a huge disappointment. our d-line was pretty bad too. are you sure hagen is in demand?

 

[coachv jr]

Yeah the great Secondary Coach we got since we didn't miss Noah Joseph because Chase Dutra and Tony Fields were NFL All-Rookie this year correct? We went through this before.

obviously we couldn't keep joseph if that is what you are complaining about

 

[turney333]

The outdated article you posted said we had 9 and other staffs had 10.

The 9 was for the 2017 season which was the limit that year. Four schools did list 10 or 11, but there is an asterisk on those stated the extra one or two spots were "additional full-time equivalent positions" which means those schools unnecessarily counted something like a quality control coach in their report to the NCAA

 

[coachv jr]

Osterman's article specifically states

"The raises, offered according to Glass because of heavy interest in both men from other college and NFL programs, are expected to land both men among the 20 highest-paid strength and conditioning (or in Rhea’s case, speed) coaches in college football, according to a USA Today database."

Maybe they didn't do
formal interviews, but it does sound like they had been approached

and both will leave soon enough #iufootballsteppingstone

 

[76-1]

The outdated article you posted said we had 9 and other staffs had 10.

Everyone on here knew we had 10 coaches this past season, except evidently you...

Had I realized you were that uninformed I would have pointed the discrepancy out to you.

Now we've drifted into the area of a personal pissing match which just clutters the board with uninformative nonsense.

So in the interest of moving on: I declare you the winner of our pathetic debate...

Have a great day...

 

[turney333]

and both will leave soon enough #iufootballsteppingstone

Maybe, maybe not. Strength coaches have a different career spectrum than on field coaches. Position coaches and coordinators will take the same position at higher profile schools to increase their chances of a title promotion. Head coaches will move to higher profile schools to increase their ability to win.
Strength coaches are sort of at the top of their career ladders, so money will play more of a role in job moves. So as long as IU can keep their pay competitive, I think Ballou and Rhea will stick around, especially Ballou, who is from Indianapolis and alumnus, with a wife that was born in Bloomington and also an alumnus

 

[Tegray1]

I agree with you that the DL wasn't great but I think it was the talent though. Jerome Johnson may have been the best one. I love the potential of Head. Brandon WIlson got a little better. If we can ever develop a pass rush without having to blitz our defense would be so much better. Auburn's front against PU dominated them. MSU had a great front this year. Head could be a real pass rusher. King was rated high but we didn't see him this year. 2017 and 2018 class will tell. I think Hagen does a lot with less. He is better talent now. Alfred Bryant has a chance to be good. Ziemba, I don't know, he had a sack against PU but not that thrilled with him yet.

secondary was a huge disappointment. our d-line was pretty bad too. are you sure hagen is in demand?

 

[coachv jr]

I agree with you that the DL wasn't great but I think it was the talent though. Jerome Johnson may have been the best one. I love the potential of Head. Brandon WIlson got a little better. If we can ever develop a pass rush without having to blitz our defense would be so much better. Auburn's front against PU dominated them. MSU had a great front this year. Head could be a real pass rusher. King was rated high but we didn't see him this year. 2017 and 2018 class will tell. I think Hagen does a lot with less. He is better talent now. Alfred Bryant has a chance to be good. Ziemba, I don't know, he had a sack against PU but not that thrilled with him yet.

shouldn't hagen be recruiting better linemen then? if he can't, is he really underpaid? are you THE real tegray scales?

 

[coachv jr]

Maybe, maybe not. Strength coaches have a different career spectrum than on field coaches. Position coaches and coordinators will take the same position at higher profile schools to increase their chances of a title promotion. Head coaches will move to higher profile schools to increase their ability to win.
Strength coaches are sort of at the top of their career ladders, so money will play more of a role in job moves. So as long as IU can keep their pay competitive, I think Ballou and Rhea will stick around, especially Ballou, who is from Indianapolis and alumnus, with a wife that was born in Bloomington and also an alumnus

that is sensible and hopefully true. also, thank you for not using "alum"

 

[oldcougar77]

Yeah the great Secondary Coach we got since we didn't miss Noah Joseph because Chase Dutra and Tony Fields were NFL All-Rookie this year correct? We went through this before.

If you watched the Iowa and Minnesota games this year and you actually understand defensive football you would know that the problems in that game were not the fault of the secondary coach. The problems v Iowa were largely the fault of the front seven getting no pressure on the QB giving him too much time and space to pick us apart. The Minnesota game was the result of two things - having to play LBs in the box because we could not stop the run otherwise, and the secondary effect of that which was having to cover a slot receiver with safety with no help. We had no LB to take away the slot underneath or bump that route. Not many safeties in the B1G could run with that kid. Other teams made the same mistake (PU). It should have been schemed differently. That's on Allen. We did correct that in later games but that wasn't the result of poor coaching or teaching by the position staff.

Our losses and physical limitations on the DL and at linebacker as well as inexperience in our DB corps put our secondary in tough positions all year. I think they responded pretty well overall and definitely improved as the season wore on. I have nothing against Noah Joseph, but he would have had the same results had he stayed at IU. Someone with your handle ought to be able to see how big the dropoff in linebacker play was this year and how it hurt our entire defense. I think you are reaching to defend your initial opinion but you are wrong regarding the coaching of defensive backs this year vs last.

 

[Tegray1]

Ah no. He was my favorite player.

shouldn't hagen be recruiting better linemen then? if he can't, is he really underpaid? are you THE real tegray scales?

 

[Tegray1]

I definitely understand the drop off without me and Covington. Haha. But IU football has always lacked speed in the secondary and this year it seemed we had speed but no smarts and experience. We had a lot of freshmen and redshirt freshmen playing I understand but they were brutal. I think Ball isn't that great. Bryant, Fitz, Brown, Burgess, Riggins have all been here. I think Layne is pretty good. I think our LB's have upside with Cam Jones and Miller. I'm not as confident in secondary. Mullen and Tracy may get a lot of action.

If you watched the Iowa and Minnesota games this year and you actually understand defensive football you would know that the problems in that game were not the fault of the secondary coach. The problems v Iowa were largely the fault of the front seven getting no pressure on the QB giving him too much time and space to pick us apart. The Minnesota game was the result of two things - having to play LBs in the box because we could not stop the run otherwise, and the secondary effect of that which was having to cover a slot receiver with safety with no help. We had no LB to take away the slot underneath or bump that route. Not many safeties in the B1G could run with that kid. Other teams made the same mistake (PU). It should have been schemed differently. That's on Allen. We did correct that in later games but that wasn't the result of poor coaching or teaching by the position staff.

Our losses and physical limitations on the DL and at linebacker as well as inexperience in our DB corps put our secondary in tough positions all year. I think they responded pretty well overall and definitely improved as the season wore on. I have nothing against Noah Joseph, but he would have had the same results had he stayed at IU. Someone with your handle ought to be able to see how big the dropoff in linebacker play was this year and how it hurt our entire defense. I think you are reaching to defend your initial opinion but you are wrong regarding the coaching of defensive backs this year vs last.

 

[Bowlmania]

So in the interest of moving on: I declare you the winner of our pathetic debate...

Austin Powers might argue that we have several master debaters on this board. But not many cunning linguists.

 

[76-1]

Austin Powers might argue that we have several master debaters on this board. But not many cunning linguists.

Ouch!

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I’m a big believer that head coach base salaries are out of control. I would like to see a cap and then structure the rest of their contract on incentive-based acheivements. Much like IU has done. Make it like commission-based jobs. Each school could structure the rest of the contract as they see fit but make it dependent on achieving wins, bowls, academic ratings, speaking engagements, etc.
It then becomes up to the coach to achieve his commisions.

 

[coachv jr]

Ah no. He was my favorite player.

he was a good one

 

[DANC]

Hagen's $400k is a result of hefty raises for 3 consecutive years

He was making $260k at A&M in 2015, and we paid him $300k to bring him here for 2016. He then got a 20k raise for 2017 and a 80k raise for 2018 probably as a result of other offers. I'm sure he will get another raise if he gets another offer (may have already gotten a raise that hasn't been announced/finalized).

$400k has to put him in the top 10% to 20% of pay for DLine coaches.

 

[DANC]

and both will leave soon enough #iufootballsteppingstone

I wouldn't bet on that.

 

[turney333]

$400k has to put him in the top 10% to 20% of pay for DLine coaches.

Well, Hagen also has a Co-DC title (though Wommack has a full DC title). I think that 400k would put Hagen in the top half of the conference, 500k being about the high-end with the exception of OSU which was 750k