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We Have Some Competition For Our New OC

Actually there is only one season where there was a significant change in scoring and that was PItt they went up 9 points in scoring and then down 12 points the year after.
NIU year before 31.2 to32.2 to 35.1
IU 23.5 to 27.2 to 21.8
NIU 38 to 30.3 to 38.6
Wisconsin 44.1 to 28.9 to 34.8
NC St 27 to 30.2 to 27
PItt 26.1 to 35.2 to 23.9
LSU 28.3 to 27.2 to 33.4
The first is scoring before Canada the next is with Canada and third is year after
If you really look there is really no significant change.

So, he actually improved scoring at NIU, IU, NC State, and PITT.
You protect yourself by saying no 'significant' improvement. But in more cases, there was improvement, including when he was at IU.

And guess what - the drop at IU after he left - when Wilson came in - there was a SIGNIFICANT drop.

So, you can play with numbers and, to support your argument, ignore when he actually improved things (but not 'significant' in your words); but there's a reason football people think he's pretty good and actually put their money where their mouths are and hire him - unlike football fans sitting in their recliner who can state whatever opinion they want.
 
Actually there is only one season where there was a significant change in scoring and that was PItt they went up 9 points in scoring and then down 12 points the year after.
NIU year before 31.2 to32.2 to 35.1
IU 23.5 to 27.2 to 21.8
NIU 38 to 30.3 to 38.6
Wisconsin 44.1 to 28.9 to 34.8
NC St 27 to 30.2 to 27
PItt 26.1 to 35.2 to 23.9
LSU 28.3 to 27.2 to 33.4
The first is scoring before Canada the next is with Canada and third is year after
If you really look there is really no significant change.
Yup thats not gonna work!
 
A recent article here emphasized the need for the new OC to adapt the offense to the players. You've just made the argument that Canada can do that.

So, you weren't satisfied with IU's Offense under him? When have you been satisfied with IU's offense, except under a couple years under Wilson? And I can't believe you grade him down at Maryland, which was an absolute train wreck and an impossible situation.

He was very impressive at NIU - don't downplay that. And I brought up the Alabama win for a reason - he's done it. And at a MAC school. If that doesn't impress you, I don't know what would.

He's a solid choice and a Hoosier. We need someone who is not on a learning curve. Canada would be perfect for the job. The only question is, can we afford him. And it appears he's in the running for a HC job.

Pretty impressive for someone not up to your standards.......

1) A recent article said? Who cares?! lol. I don’t know what article you’re referencing, but I might not agree with it.

2) I never said Canada can do that - I said that’s what he thinks he can do. I would argue that we have historically not had the quality of players needed to successfully adapt to year in and year out - you solve that by establishing a system and recruiting the right kinds of kinds of guys to succeed in that system. Cohesiveness and consistency are really beneficial when you start from a size, skill, or personnel deficit. His philosophy does not place high value on cohesiveness or consistency.

3) Yes, the offense was more productive and more exciting for a couple years under Wilson. Flaws and all, Wilson is a far better offensive mind than Canada, and it showed.

4) If I can’t grade him down at Maryland, I certainly wouldn’t grade him up. He was, at best, a wash and - as I said to begin - had mixed results, something his record shows pretty clearly.

5) I would take a quintuple look before I hired anybody with his place-to-place-to-place-to-place employment history. His record doesn’t shine enough to warrant that many moves.
 
Allen said he wanted a coordinator with experience and an ideal candidate would be one with big 10 experience.
If it's canada, he would know a lot more about big 10 personnel than anybody else, especially for 2019 season.
I liked his pre-snap motion. Looked hard to defend. Iu guy gets a point too.
 
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So, he actually improved scoring at NIU, IU, NC State, and PITT.
You protect yourself by saying no 'significant' improvement. But in more cases, there was improvement, including when he was at IU.

And guess what - the drop at IU after he left - when Wilson came in - there was a SIGNIFICANT drop.

So, you can play with numbers and, to support your argument, ignore when he actually improved things (but not 'significant' in your words); but there's a reason football people think he's pretty good and actually put their money where their mouths are and hire him - unlike football fans sitting in their recliner who can state whatever opinion they want.
And went down significantly at Wisconsin and wet back up after went down at LSU and up after. To my knowledge has not been hired back to school at the level of LSU and as of right now a candidate for jobs but not hired. If he is the man at Indiana I will wish him nothing but absolute success. I would love to look at Kalen DeBoer or Rod Smith. Just my opinion.
 
Allen said he wanted a coordinator with experience and an ideal candidate would be one with big 10 experience.
If it's canada, he would know a lot more about big 10 personnel than anybody else, especially for 2019 season.
I liked his pre-snap motion. Looked hard to defend. Iu guy gets a point too.
I do not think CTA said he wanted Big 10 experience. He said he wanted power 5 experience, not necessarily Big 10 experience. I would like to see Dan Werner get the gig.
 
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1) A recent article said? Who cares?! lol. I don’t know what article you’re referencing, but I might not agree with it.

2) I never said Canada can do that - I said that’s what he thinks he can do. I would argue that we have historically not had the quality of players needed to successfully adapt to year in and year out - you solve that by establishing a system and recruiting the right kinds of kinds of guys to succeed in that system. Cohesiveness and consistency are really beneficial when you start from a size, skill, or personnel deficit. His philosophy does not place high value on cohesiveness or consistency.

3) Yes, the offense was more productive and more exciting for a couple years under Wilson. Flaws and all, Wilson is a far better offensive mind than Canada, and it showed.

4) If I can’t grade him down at Maryland, I certainly wouldn’t grade him up. He was, at best, a wash and - as I said to begin - had mixed results, something his record shows pretty clearly.

5) I would take a quintuple look before I hired anybody with his place-to-place-to-place-to-place employment history. His record doesn’t shine enough to warrant that many moves.
Yeah, good luck finding a successful, experienced OC who wants to come to IU for the pay we offer.
 
I do not think CTA said he wanted Big 10 experience. He said he wanted power 5 experience, not necessarily Big 10 experience. I would like to see Dan Werner get the gig.
Since there is some confusion by some on this.

Heres what he said and I quote.

Indiana head coach Tom Allen knows what he wants in his next offensive coordinator. “I want a guy that has called plays at this level", Allen said at a press conference Thursday evening, “not necessarily in this conference per se, but that would be the ideal. But I just think that a guy who has been there and done that would be important for sure because I still feel like when I go through and think about these two roles, my challenge is always “I want to hire a head coach of the offense”.

He also said not in any order:
He want to run the football
He wants tempo
He wants to protect the ball
He wants to create explosive plays and stretch the field

Here is the article
https://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-b...or-i-want-a-guy-who-has-called-plays/2019/1/4

The AFCA starts today and ends Wednesday. We could see a move this week possibly.
 
Yeah, good luck finding a successful, experienced OC who wants to come to IU for the pay we offer.
I honestly don't think pay will be an issue. Sure there will be the normal negotiations but if Allen brought in a stud I'm sure Fred would get it done. According to the Indy Star article a few weeks back he is ready to press on. Last spring Dr. Rhea mentioned that he had not been turned down by Fred one time for any of the latest, greatest, VERY EXPENSIVE, high tech equipment that he asked for.

Hopefully CTA fully understands this and is not afraid of a big name.

Reminds me very much of a few years ago at CU when Mike MacIntyre brought in Jim Leavitt to run the defense.

If CTA goes after that kind of clout we will be in awesome shape!
 
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Yeah, good luck finding a successful, experienced OC who wants to come to IU for the pay we offer.

I was watching the AA game yesterday and the kid going to S.Carolina reason for going was Werner. I understand the connections we have with Canada and Werner but I just don’t see us out bidding other schools for them. We can now add USC to the list of schools looking. Hopefully I’m wrong though.
 
Actually there is only one season where there was a significant change in scoring and that was PItt they went up 9 points in scoring and then down 12 points the year after.
NIU year before 31.2 to32.2 to 35.1
IU 23.5 to 27.2 to 21.8
NIU 38 to 30.3 to 38.6
Wisconsin 44.1 to 28.9 to 34.8
NC St 27 to 30.2 to 27
PItt 26.1 to 35.2 to 23.9
LSU 28.3 to 27.2 to 33.4
The first is scoring before Canada the next is with Canada and third is year after
If you really look there is really no significant change.
Actually there is only one season where there was a significant change in scoring and that was PItt they went up 9 points in scoring and then down 12 points the year after.
NIU year before 31.2 to32.2 to 35.1
IU 23.5 to 27.2 to 21.8
NIU 38 to 30.3 to 38.6
Wisconsin 44.1 to 28.9 to 34.8
NC St 27 to 30.2 to 27
PItt 26.1 to 35.2 to 23.9
LSU 28.3 to 27.2 to 33.4
The first is scoring before Canada the next is with Canada and third is year after
If you really look there is really no significant change.

Nice piece of research, however I think there are some statistical flaws. Scoring as gauge of offense can be misleading because some teams run a hurry up offense and others don't. I don't believe Canada does. So one style offense may run 20% plays and have 20% more scoring in a year, so it's misleading. They may have simply created more scoring and possessions for both teams in the game. I use Yard per Play as the best baromter of offense as it takes out plays per game. At LSU he went from 6.1 per play to 5.5 the following year. Pitt had a big improvement with Canada and fall after him. I did not go back and look at the others, but I think his numbers are pretty favorable when looked at in yards per play. Not sure it carries back as far as you went, but the reality is that I think Canada got better as a coordinator over the years. I followed him closely at Pitt, LSU and Maryland and he definitely made those schools better. I don't think he's a miracle worker, but he's never run a terrible offense. He's always ranged from very good to slightly below average, but never terrible. Most coordinators can't say that. I think he'd get Indiana into the 30's in offensive production and have a strong run game which goes a long way.
 
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I looked up NC State's yards per play and then actually got slightly better after Canada left(5.61 to 5.75), but Canada's numbers were respectable there. LSU and Pitt definitely improved in yards per play under Canada. He's not Houdini but his numbers especially running the ball are usually very solid.
 
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A recent article here emphasized the need for the new OC to adapt the offense to the players. You've just made the argument that Canada can do that.

So, you weren't satisfied with IU's Offense under him? When have you been satisfied with IU's offense, except under a couple years under Wilson? And I can't believe you grade him down at Maryland, which was an absolute train wreck and an impossible situation.

He was very impressive at NIU - don't downplay that. And I brought up the Alabama win for a reason - he's done it. And at a MAC school. If that doesn't impress you, I don't know what would.

He's a solid choice and a Hoosier. We need someone who is not on a learning curve. Canada would be perfect for the job. The only question is, can we afford him. And it appears he's in the running for a HC job.

Pretty impressive for someone not up to your standards.......
Nice piece of research, however I think there are some statistical flaws. Scoring as gauge of offense can be misleading because some teams run a hurry up offense and others don't. I don't believe Canada does. So one style offense may run 20% plays and have 20% more scoring in a year, so it's misleading. They may have simply created more scoring and possessions for both teams in the game. I use Yard per Play as the best baromter of offense as it takes out plays per game. At LSU he went from 6.1 per play to 5.5 the following year. Pitt had a big improvement with Canada and fall after him. I did not go back and look at the others, but I think his numbers are pretty favorable when looked at in yards per play. Not sure it carries back as far as you went, but the reality is that I think Canada got better as a coordinator over the years. I followed him closely at Pitt, LSU and Maryland and he definitely made those schools better. I don't think he's a miracle worker, but he's never run a terrible offense. He's always ranged from very good to slightly below average, but never terrible. Most coordinators can't say that. I think he'd get Indiana into the 30's in offensive production and have a strong run game which goes a long way.
You are correct, but that is what many on this board go by. Also as I have stated many times on this board there are many factors that go into stats. Loss of players, maturation of players, injuries, schedule and many others. Don’t get me wrong I am not completely opposed to Canada. I trust CTA to hire the guy he has complete trust and faith in
 
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I think LSU fans would almost unanimously say their team's offense improved after Canada left and Ensminger took over as OC. He obviously had a better QB to work with than Matt did, but you could also argue that Burrow (that QB) wouldn't have come to LSU if Canada were still there--all speculation.

I've no doubt IU could do worse than Canada, but I also feel it could do better too. Most of all, I won't be surprised if it is Canada.

Or Werner, for that matter. Allen's public comments confirmed my suspicion that chief among the attributes he's looking for is a guy who can put together some kind of offense that will possess the ball long enough on drives to keep IU's defense off the field and well-rested.

I'm not sure how realistic that approach will be, given IU's personnel (compared to, say, Wisconsin's or Iowa's), but it sounds like we're about to find out.
 
Since there is some confusion by some on this.

Heres what he said and I quote.

Indiana head coach Tom Allen knows what he wants in his next offensive coordinator. “I want a guy that has called plays at this level", Allen said at a press conference Thursday evening, “not necessarily in this conference per se, but that would be the ideal. But I just think that a guy who has been there and done that would be important for sure because I still feel like when I go through and think about these two roles, my challenge is always “I want to hire a head coach of the offense”.

He also said not in any order:
He want to run the football
He wants tempo
He wants to protect the ball
He wants to create explosive plays and stretch the field

Here is the article
https://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-b...or-i-want-a-guy-who-has-called-plays/2019/1/4

The AFCA starts today and ends Wednesday. We could see a move this week possibly.
Well, just to be clear here is the full quote

“I want a guy that has called plays at this level", Allen said at a press conference Thursday evening, “not necessarily in this conference per se, but that would be the ideal.”

So I believe the “that would be ideal” part of his statement referred to the “ I want a guy that has called plays at this level” part of the statement that you left out. So what does “this level” mean? Open to debate but I took it to mean div1or power 5 level. I guess we can all assume what we want.
 
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We can do better than Canada.... not a slight on him just an expectation. I’d rather look forward and not to the past. CTA gets his choice on this and I don’t think he adds anyone tied to former cultures that didn’t work at IU.
 
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Couple of names that may have some interest in the position:
Todd Graham - former head coach at Rice, Tulsa, Pitt, and Arizona State. Pretty good offensive mind. Probably seeking another head coaching position. Received a12 $million buy iut from ASU.
Todd Dodge - former head coach at North Texas and Offensive Cordinator at Pitt. Currently runs a great high school program in Austin Texas. Either would help in developing a Texas pipeline. Dodge’s son is now the head coach at South Lake Carroll, the school that gave us Luke Timian.
 
Couple of names that may have some interest in the position:
Todd Graham - former head coach at Rice, Tulsa, Pitt, and Arizona State. Pretty good offensive mind. Probably seeking another head coaching position. Received a12 $million buy iut from ASU.
Todd Dodge - former head coach at North Texas and Offensive Cordinator at Pitt. Currently runs a great high school program in Austin Texas. Either would help in developing a Texas pipeline. Dodge’s son is now the head coach at South Lake Carroll, the school that gave us Luke Timian.

Don't know enough about either of them to be either for or against.

I do have strong feelings about the thought of attempting to develop a "Texas pipeline".

Historically, unless your school name is Oklahoma, few outside of Texas have ever developed (what I consider) a true "pipeline".

In my "opinion" the best we can hope for out of Texas is one to four guys who slip below the radar due to an over-abundance of talent at their respective positions...

Texas teams have Texas pretty well locked up historically.

Just my opinion, but we're fooling ourselves if we think that someone we hire is suddenly going to create a "Texas pipeline".

It's a great concept/dream but in reality it's just not happening (in my opinion).

I will always support recruiting Texas (it'd be nuts not to), but we should never consider the area of structural importance to the foundation of our approach to recruiting...
 
I honestly don't think pay will be an issue. Sure there will be the normal negotiations but if Allen brought in a stud I'm sure Fred would get it done. According to the Indy Star article a few weeks back he is ready to press on. Last spring Dr. Rhea mentioned that he had not been turned down by Fred one time for any of the latest, greatest, VERY EXPENSIVE, high tech equipment that he asked for.

Hopefully CTA fully understands this and is not afraid of a big name.

Reminds me very much of a few years ago at CU when Mike MacIntyre brought in Jim Leavitt to run the defense.

If CTA goes after that kind of clout we will be in awesome shape!
What in the world makes you think Fred will pay up? When has he ever “gotten it done” with a big hire?

OSU gets it done. Michigan went out and got it done. Purdue got it done.

Fred settles. That’s just the reality of his track record. Anything else is pure wishful thinking.
 
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Don't know enough about either of them to be either for or against.

I do have strong feelings about the thought of attempting to develop a "Texas pipeline".

Historically, unless your school name is Oklahoma, few outside of Texas have ever developed (what I consider) a true "pipeline".

In my "opinion" the best we can hope for out of Texas is one to four guys who slip below the radar due to an over-abundance of talent at their respective positions...

Texas teams have Texas pretty well locked up historically.

Just my opinion, but we're fooling ourselves if we think that someone we hire is suddenly going to create a "Texas pipeline".

It's a great concept/dream but in reality it's just not happening (in my opinion).

I will always support recruiting Texas (it'd be nuts not to), but we should never consider the area of structural importance to the foundation of our approach to recruiting...
We get the occassional player from Texas. Big Ralph Green was one. Jay Rodgers was another. I'm sure ther are more.

Purdue had pretty good success with a Texas recruit - Drew Brees - who was coached by Jay Rodgers dad at the same HS.
 
What in the world makes you think Fred will pay up? When has he ever “gotten it done” with a big hire?

OSU gets it done. Michigan went out and got it done. Purdue got it done.

Fred settles. That’s just the reality of his track record. Anything else is pure wishful thinking.
I think pay will be a huge issue.
 
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We get the occassional player from Texas. Big Ralph Green was one. Jay Rodgers was another. I'm sure ther are more.

Purdue had pretty good success with a Texas recruit - Drew Brees - who was coached by Jay Rodgers dad at the same HS.

Well..., if "for p u" agrees with me I guess I'm wrong ;)

My point is not that we don't go after a few targeted guys down there, but that we don't base a full third of our recruiting effort there...

All I meant to express was that we shouldn't hire a guy based on the expectation that he'll create a "pipeline" down there in Texas for us because that's much easier said than done...
 
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I think pay will be a huge issue.
I don't think it will be an issue unless we go after some ridiculous name...which we won't.

And Allen won't hire an a-hole or guy that won't be a good cultural fit either. That probably eliminates some of the names bantered around here. Should be interesting what happens.
 
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I don't think it will be an issue unless we go after some ridiculous name...which we won't.

And Allen won't hire an a-hole or guy that won't be a good cultural fit either. That probably eliminates some of the names bantered around here. Should be interesting what happens.

Also, one thing to keep mind about the really high priced coordinators is that those salaries are being driven by offers to head coaching positions, not offers to other coordinator positions. Of the 20 or so coordinators making $1M+ this past season, 5 have already moved onto HC jobs, and another 10 or so have been reportedly targets for other HC jobs.
 
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I don't think it will be an issue unless we go after some ridiculous name...which we won't.

And Allen won't hire an a-hole or guy that won't be a good cultural fit either. That probably eliminates some of the names bantered around here. Should be interesting what happens.
I don't think we'll hear of the coaches who we wouldn't puruse because of salary demands. That's what I'm talking about. Not necessarily those who reject, after being offered, because of salary.
 
It may say a lot of it is a perceived re-tread or b or c-teamer. But I think many would be intrigued by a rising up and comer type (I read about Harrell at N. Texas- 30-33 yr old range).

I think Fred knows the cost of eggs these days so don’t thrill he’ll go bottom of barrel cheap if a good one is truly interested- and one would think the chance to take down the B10 big boys would be a great opportunity to shine.
 
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We were already paying $502,500. That's not chicken feed.

Are we going to pay Alabama money? No.

Will we match up competitively with the mid group in the Big Ten? Most likely...

Several staffs have proven in the past that being paid the big bucks is not a certain recipe for success...
 
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Another name to throw out there is Ed Warriner O-line coach at Michigan. He was very successful as Kansas's OC, was a good o-line coach at ND, and Michigan. Urban fired him, but Urban fires everybody when they don't go undefeated. He checks a lot of Allen's boxes. I'd rather have a guy like Lebby or the guy from Fresno myself, but Warriner is a solid coach.
 
If you want to hire a young guy based on stats, go lookup what Kerwin Bell did at Valdosta State this year. Crazy numbers regardless of what level you coach at.
 
Another name to throw out there is Ed Warriner O-line coach at Michigan. He was very successful as Kansas's OC, was a good o-line coach at ND, and Michigan. Urban fired him, but Urban fires everybody when they don't go undefeated. He checks a lot of Allen's boxes. I'd rather have a guy like Lebby or the guy from Fresno myself, but Warriner is a solid coach.

Absolutely not. He’s a great OL coach but took over as OC at OSU the after the won the title for Herman. That Offense regressed with Zeke, Michael Thomas, 3 AA OL and a QB who Herman made look like a 1st rd draft pick. MSU’s offense is a train wreck. No thank you.
 
Absolutely not. He’s a great OL coach but took over as OC at OSU the after the won the title for Herman. That Offense regressed with Zeke, Michael Thomas, 3 AA OL and a QB who Herman made look like a 1st rd draft pick. MSU’s offense is a train wreck. No thank you.
little bit surprising to me, given their histories and resources, how the offenses struggled this season at MSU, Pitt and Miami.
 
What in the world makes you think Fred will pay up? When has he ever “gotten it done” with a big hire?

OSU gets it done. Michigan went out and got it done. Purdue got it done.

Fred settles. That’s just the reality of his track record. Anything else is pure wishful thinking.
Ohio State promoted an offensive coordinator to head coach, gave another guy a twenty thousand raise to come and be passing game coordinator, meanwhile Michigan is losing coaches to their rival, they are hoping offensive coordinator gets a job and Pu payinga.500 coach $6 million a year?
 
Hello,

We have the lowest paid coaches in the BIG

We were already paying $502,500. That's not chicken feed.

Are we going to pay Alabama money? No.

Will we match up competitively with the mid group in the Big Ten? Most likely...

Several staffs have proven in the past that being paid the big bucks is not a certain recipe for success...
 
Hello,

We have the lowest paid coaches in the BIG
We ponied up for DeBord, paying him what he was making at Tennessee. I have no doubt IU is prepared to pay north of 500k (and probably considerably north of it) for his successor.

Good bye.
 
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Our coaches base salary was 550,000. He makes 1.8 million. The Rutgers coach makes 3 million. Some Illinois and Rutgers assistant's make 800,000 and our highest paid assistant made 502,000. So unless McRobbie stops taking the BIG network money or you are Fred Glass I don't believe you.

We ponied up for DeBord, paying him what he was making at Tennessee. I have no doubt IU is prepared to pay north of 500k (and probably considerably north of it) for his successor.

Good bye.
 
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