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Trump Trial - New York

What do you think is the most likely outcome in the New York trial?

  • A guilty verdict on some or all of the counts

  • An acquittal ("total exoneration!")

  • A hung jury (jury cannot reach a unanimous decision and a mistrial is declared)

  • Trump pleads guilty to something prior to a verdict being rendered

  • Other (for example, a mistrial based on something other than a hung jury)


Results are only viewable after voting.
I don't believe you. I think in a non election year, you would have taken that bill in a heartbeat.
No not at those capricious numbers. That alone was a nonstarter before even getting into the weeds of unwinding/amending etc. we need to shutdown the border. The numbers already are obscene
 
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Sorry I'm not buying it.
You don’t have to. When Biden said he can shutdown the border then do it. The 5,000 8,500 etc were absurd. And again that doesn’t address locking down future admins.

The entire process needs overhauling. And this would just be an impediment to same. And anyone who has handled a disability claim knows that the representations made re adjudicating claims is laughable
 
You're moving the goalpost. Even if it's all Biden's fault, it's still true that the Republicans refused to do anything to fix it because they think their election chances improve if it remains an issue.

We aren't blaming Republicans for breaking immigration. We're blaming them for being dishonest, partisan hacks about their decision to ensure it stays broken.
My point is that Biden supported the bill for the same reason. His election chances improve if it passes and if it doesn’t, he can say “hey, I tried. Blame those guys.”

Meanwhile, we see from his first 3 years what he thinks about the border.

It’s no less dishonest and partisan than what Trump and the republicans did.

Neither side actually cares about the border except for what they can gain politically from it.
 
My point is that Biden supported the bill for the same reason. His election chances improve if it passes and if it doesn’t, he can say “hey, I tried. Blame those guys.”

Meanwhile, we see from his first 3 years what he thinks about the border.

It’s no less dishonest and partisan than what Trump and the republicans did.

Neither side actually cares about the border except for what they can gain politically from it.
That's fine. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm disagreeing with the guys who are twisting themselves into knots to pretend their stance isn't purely political.
 
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This is a very bad development for the prosecution.

Not sure it really matters. In fact, it may actually help because if he is up there actually admitting to stealing money then i think it would be more difficult to claim he is lying about the hush money payment and Trump's involvement, which is all the prosecution needed from him.

If he's up there lying under oath in regards to what matters (hush money payment), then why not just go ahead and lie by claiming not to be stealing from the Trump organization?

No one is claiming Cohen isn't dirty but being honest about one's own dirty laundry may not be a bad thing for the prosecution.
 
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[/QUOTE]
Not sure it really matters. In fact, it may actually help because if he is up there actually admitting to stealing money then i think it would be more difficult to claim he is lying about the hush money payment and Trump's involvement, which is all the prosecution needed from him.

If he's up there lying under oath in regards to what matters (hush money payment), then why not just go ahead and lie by claiming not to be stealing from the Trump organization?

No one is claiming Cohen isn't dirty.
Credibility you don’t parse
 
Not sure it really matters. In fact, it may actually help because if he is up there actually admitting to stealing money then i think it would be more difficult to claim he is lying about the hush money payment and Trump's involvement, which is all the prosecution needed from him.

If he's up there lying under oath in regards to what matters (hush money payment), then why not just go ahead and lie by claiming not to be stealing from the Trump organization?

No one is claiming Cohen isn't dirty.
Yes, Cohen is dirty and yes, prosecutors rely on dirty witnesses. They often have to. Crooks tend to associate with crooks. That's not the problem. The problem is that the jury just found out today, in the closing days of the trial, that Cohen is a thief. The prosecution should be bringing to light - - - on direct - - the skeletons in a witness's closet and all the bad stuff he's done in connection with the case. You don't want that shit coming out for the first time on cross. It makes the prosecution look shady.

Next, the prosecution's case is built on the idea that, yeah, Cohen's a liar but the key document in the case - - - the one with the hand-written entries and the dollar figures - - speaks for itself. Well, turns out it doesn't because it doesn't reflect the stolen sum. This raises all kinds of questions.

I'm not saying today's development is necessarily a fatal blow. We'll see what the DA does with Cohen on redirect but, make no mistake, this was not a good development. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a tough burden under the best of circumstances. It just got tougher.
 
Credibility you don’t parse
[/QUOTE]

we talked about this very same thing before the trial. Both sides have (or would have), the two worst witnesses. Cohen is a bastard and a rotten human who wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the arse. But, he's now parlayed his lies into social media darling to some. What a joke.
 
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Not sure it really matters. In fact, it may actually help because if he is up there actually admitting to stealing money then i think it would be more difficult to claim he is lying about the hush money payment and Trump's involvement, which is all the prosecution needed from him.

If he's up there lying under oath in regards to what matters (hush money payment), then why not just go ahead and lie by claiming not to be stealing from the Trump organization?

No one is claiming Cohen isn't dirty but being honest about one's own dirty laundry may not be a bad thing for the prosecution.
That's a serious reach. You don't take an already questionable witness and make him more credible by turning him into a thief.
 
That's a serious reach. You don't take an already questionable witness and make him more credible by turning him into a thief.

He was already a thief. At least he was being honest about it on the stand. Of course, bowl has a point that it would have come off better had the prosecution pro-actively addressed it but I don't think it's some kind of smoking gun that saves Trump. And I think it would be much worse if Cohen tried to lie about it.

Crooks working for crooks isn't exactly shocking.
 
He was already a thief. At least he was being honest about it on the stand. Of course, bowl has a point that it would have come off better had the prosecution pro-actively addressed it but I don't think it's some kind of smoking gun that saves Trump. And I think it would be much worse if Cohen tried to lie about it.

Crooks working for crooks isn't exactly shocking.
Cohen also testified that he told the DA about this. It doesn't just raise issues of Cohen's credibility in the eyes of the jury, it raises questions of the prosecutor's credibility. They will wonder, why did the prosecutor try to hide this from us? What else are they hiding?
 
Cohen also testified that he told the DA about this. It doesn't just raise issues of Cohen's credibility in the eyes of the jury, it raises questions of the prosecutor's credibility. They will wonder, why did the prosecutor try to hide this from us? What else are they hiding?
Game over. Or at least it would be with a remotely sane jury.

 
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Cohen also testified that he told the DA about this. It doesn't just raise issues of Cohen's credibility in the eyes of the jury, it raises questions of the prosecutor's credibility. They will wonder, why did the prosecutor try to hide this from us? What else are they hiding?

If he did tell them that, then the prosecutors should have brought that stuff out on direct and controlled the narrative. Bring out the bad stuff on direct, and then get the explainer in to take the sting out of it. Cohen stealing doesn't change the underlying facts, but this was shockingly dogshit lawyering
 
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If he did tell them that, then the prosecutors should have brought that stuff out on direct and controlled the narrative. Bring out the bad stuff on direct, and then get the explainer in to take the sting out of it. Cohen stealing doesn't change the underlying facts, but this was shockingly dogshit lawyering
Exactly. Defalcation? Nah that’s too big of a word. These were tote wages. Tote wages? Right. Toten wages. Walked right out the door with them since trump stiffed me on other shit and made promises he didn’t keep. I shouldn’t have done it but was tired of trump screwing me over.

Bam
 
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This has always been the weakest of the cases against DJT, and I think it's probably lost, with Cohen being so slimy (yet with some independently verified accusations).

The sandbagging of the more substantial cases (FL documents, Georgia interference, DC insurrection) is most unfortunate, for our country.
 
Exactly. Defalcation? Nah that’s too big of a word. These were tote wages. Tote wages? Right. Toten wages. Walked right out the door with them since trump stiffed me on other shit and made promises he didn’t keep. I shouldn’t have done it but was tired of trump screwing me over.

Bam
All them Brains and you were still given a baby's arm holding an apple. The world is unfair
 
He was already a thief. At least he was being honest about it on the stand. Of course, bowl has a point that it would have come off better had the prosecution pro-actively addressed it but I don't think it's some kind of smoking gun that saves Trump. And I think it would be much worse if Cohen tried to lie about it.

Crooks working for crooks isn't exactly shocking.

You were able to make your first comment without anyone calling you a moron, and then you double down?
 
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This has always been the weakest of the cases against DJT, and I think it's probably lost, with Cohen being so slimy (yet with some independently verified accusations).

The sandbagging of the more substantial cases (FL documents, Georgia interference, DC insurrection) is most unfortunate, for our country.
The other cases also suck.
 
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