I had some sweetheart come in the store last night and ask for quinine and tonic water.
When I asked her why she wanted quinine, she said "so I don't get this virus."
Facebook medicine I'm guessing.
Development on the Chloroquine front...
- Thread starter cosmickid
- Start date
When I asked her why she wanted quinine, she said "so I don't get this virus."
Facebook medicine I'm guessing.
If the government isn't answering questions such as "who is making the test", how do you find out? Just start randomly calling companies? "Hey, are you making a test kit, how many and where are they". The reason none of that is possible is that we are decentralizing it. There isn't a single procurer of test kits of any kind. Every state has their own supply and their own rules for getting a test. In Indiana one had to have a fever of 100.5. That may have changed, I haven't listened to Holcomb's press conferences the past few days.
But the media shows every Holcomb press conference. My inlaws in Kentucky live for Beshear's pressers like he is a minor deity. DeWine has a daily press conference in OH that I've read some really love. It isn't likely the national media can spend much time on when Dale, Indiana is going to have testing kits available. My guess is right now no one, not even the CDC, knows because everything is decentralized.
Unless the people making the tests tell us, or tell the media, we don't know. And they aren't announcing much in advance. Here was some info from the Star recently. https://www.indystar.com/story/news...esting-indiana-what-you-need-know/2944939001/
Corporations release numbers when they think it helps them, otherwise they treat all this as trade secrets because they don't want their competitors to know what they are doing. Our business paranoia is a problem, but I don't know how a report busts down the door of a lab and demands a full accounting of their tests.
I imagine you have seen it all. I have asked my doctors questions on the advertising of products, and they have said yes, when a new advertising campaign starts they get people arriving with the symptoms described (like restless leg) who had never reported those symptoms before.
I don't care if people make an informed choice with their physician on using hydroxychloroquine. That is their right. I am just worried a lot of people are making uninformed choices and that worries me some. I know people, like the person in your store, that will act based on a Facebook post.
I have not seen any extra prescribing of hydroxychloroquine, yet.
bla bla bla, apology apology apology.
don't know if you're just trolling at this point, or if you failed to grasp one point i made.
the media is doing a total sht job.
the govt is doing a total shit job.
go back and re read what i said, respond to that, and spare we the "resistance if futile" crap, or that there is nothing anybody can do about anything. (we'd all be speaking German if we'd had our current leaders 80 yrs ago).
in times of crisis it's govt's job to MAKE things happen, not fret to the cameras why it isn't.
and it's the media's job to hold their feet to the fire and inform us..
unfortunately we no longer have real journalism or jouralists, just reality show hosts masquerading as them and program directors with "talking points" to fuel ratings, as you can't work for a multinational corporation that's totally intertwined with govt for the mutual benefit of both, and be a journalist seeking and reporting truth, and holding those accountable that your employer is in bed with.
Turns out the story is mostly wrong. The issue is dosage not overall safety. The patients with heart issues were on a high dosage regimen.
FWIW, Yahoo news is a highly unreliable site in my view.
Cuomo today made a good point on the numbers. He was saying the state will soon have the ability to test some number, 60,000 I think, per day. But it was pointed out NYC just signed a deal with an Indiana company for 50,000. Cuomo said this was just like the ventilators. He has "bought" like 16,000 ventilators but only 2000 has been received. Companies are promising deliveries but get better offers and delay deliveries. So states have no idea when/if they will get the ventilators. He believes the same will happen with testing kits.
I imagine states are hesitant to announce too much. If NY gets kits from Acme, they may not want CA to go to Acme and offer more.
I imagine states are hesitant to announce too much. If NY gets kits from Acme, they may not want CA to go to Acme and offer more.
That's not a meaningful difference. For something to be considered safe, there has to be a window
where an overdose causes no ill effects. This is called a therapeutic window.
It is very concerning when you can't get meaningful, statistically significant data on multiple doses showing both safety and efficacy, in a dose-dependent fashion.
It is extremely concerning when you can't get meaningful, statistically significant data on any dose at all showing both safety and efficacy.
Isn't the issue efficacy? We already know about safety at the lower dose. Even aspirin can be overdosed.
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Not to mention that you can't necessarily use prior safety data for this drug given that COVID has significant cardiac impact in a good number of critically ill patients (the same ones who desperately need a therapeutic drug) and the scariest side-effects here are the cardiac ones.
Plaquenil was never one I considered to have a narrow therapeutic index.
Coumadin, Dilantin, Lanoxin are some that standout as having a narrow therapeutic index.
Interesting
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WAG, since hydrochloroquine is an anti-malarial and quinine is as well (guessing the -quine might be a clue to their relationship), people might think there's a similar benefit.
I'm honestly not sure where she received her info.
I've had some intelligent people ask about the availability of hydroxychloroquine but not recently.
That was a first for me last night regarding quinine.
All you had to do was read the original story to know that- it's clear as day. But the two groups were lower/higher than the recommended dose of 500 mg, and there were fewer patients involved in the lower dosage. Again, there wasn't an ethical way to actually have a control group, because Brazil's official policy is to prescribe chloroquine for all COVID patients.
Not sure why you're pooping on yahoo- there is nothing in the link you posted that wasn't in the yahoo story in my OP. And even your link (the Politico story) says it was revised on April 14 (today) to reflect the dosage distinctions...
"Despite its limitations, infectious disease doctors and drug safety experts said the study provided further evidence that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine can pose significant harm to some patients, specifically the risk of a fatal heart arrhythmia. Patients in the trial were also given the antibiotic azithromycin, which carries the same heart risk. Hospitals in the United States are also using azithromycin to treat coronavirus patients, often in combination with hydroxychloroquine
“To me, this study conveys one useful piece of information, which is that chloroquine causes a dose-dependent increase in an abnormality in the ECG that could predispose people to sudden cardiac death,” said Dr. David Juurlink, an internist and the head of the division of clinical pharmacology at the University of Toronto, referring to an electrocardiogram, which reads the heart’s electrical activity.- Obviously Juurlink is anti-Trump (LOL)
Roughly half the study participants were given a dose of 450 milligrams of chloroquine twice daily for five days, while the rest were prescribed a higher dose of 600 milligrams for 10 days. Within three days, researchers started noticing heart arrhythmias in patients taking the higher dose. By the sixth day of treatment, 11 patients had died, leading to an immediate end to the high-dose segment of the trial.
The researchers said the study did not have enough patients in the lower-dose portion of the trial to conclude if chloroquine was effective in patients with severe disease. More studies evaluating the drug earlier in the course of the disease are “urgently needed,” the researchers said.Several clinical trials for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are testing low doses for shorter periods of time in coronavirus patients. But the Health Commission of Guangdong province in China had initially recommended those sick with the virus be treated with 500 milligrams of chloroquine twice daily for 10 days.
One of the authors of the Brazilian study, Dr. Marcus Lacerda, said in an email on Sunday that his study found that “the high dosage that the Chinese were using is very toxic and kills more patients.”
“That is the reason this arm of the study was halted early,” he said, adding that the manuscript was being reviewed by the journal Lancet Global Health."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/small-chloroquine-study-halted-over-121423352.html
Have a 70+ year old neighbor who lost his daughter to the virus after visiting him while waiting for her test results to come back.
His lungs are filling up while being hospitalized. His doctor is administering the Malaria Drug as per the latest report.
Hoping it works to save his life.
His lungs are filling up while being hospitalized. His doctor is administering the Malaria Drug as per the latest report.
Hoping it works to save his life.
we get a lot of conflicting and sometimes false info, but seems at some point i heard there might be some correlation between how infected the person was you got it from, and how sick you'll get.
if it's a race between how quickly the virus can overwhelm you, and how quickly one can build up the antibodies to fight it off, then that might make sense if your body starts fighting it as soon as it detects the virus's presence, and a small initial presence vs a large initial presence would seemingly help with time to build antibodies before you are overwhelmed. (how vaccines work i suppose).
but again, we get 70% politics, 20% personal stories, 8% score keeping, coverage from the media, and only 2% actual educational information.
Just to show the way this drug is unknown, a small French study and a small Chinese study cast doubts. I am NOT claiming these are definitive, just showing why we need studies.
French study:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/health/new-french-study-hydroxychloroquine/index.html
Chinese study:
https://www.foxnews.com/science/hyd...navirus-but-can-alleviate-symptoms-study-says
French study:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/health/new-french-study-hydroxychloroquine/index.html
Chinese study:
https://www.foxnews.com/science/hyd...navirus-but-can-alleviate-symptoms-study-says
One of the first "studies" that supporters of the treatment grabbed onto was the Italian study, but it turned out the reporting on that one was flawed - they only included in their final tally participants who stayed on the drug until the end. Patients who died or stopped taking the drug for other reasons (including two who were put on ventilators and changed treatments) were not included. As a result, the "study" reported success, while in real life, the most negative clinical outcomes - including the only deaths - actually came from people taking the drug who were dropped from the sample.
People need to be very cautious about reading too much into these quick-response "studies."
The CDC studied Chloroquine as a treatment for SARS in 2005 and found it to be effective. This idea of using it for covid19 wasn't just conjured up out of nowhere. It is still widely used for various conditions precisely because of low occurence of side effects. I remain more hopeful about chloroquine or HCQ than anything else currently being tested. One would think the supply has been ramped up by now?
Plaquenil has never been considered to have a particularly narrow therapeutic index for the treatment of lupus and RA.
Obviously if you are trying to use it to treat something else, in an entirely different patient population (one that might have cardiac and respiratory issues that are absent in the typical lupus or RA patient), you may see effects not noted before, may need higher doses, or maybe even a very different treatment protocol. You could get a very different safety window.
The disease treated and the patient population treated both play a very big role.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
What do you consider the therapeutic dose?
If we aren't going over 600mg per day then nothing has changed.
You would think but if we see concrete positive responses that won't be the case.
[QUOTE="i'vegotwinners, post: 2
unfortunately we no longer have real journalism or jouralists, just reality show hosts masquerading as them and program directors with "talking points" to fuel ratings.[/QUOTE]
This may be the very first thing we have agreed on.
unfortunately we no longer have real journalism or jouralists, just reality show hosts masquerading as them and program directors with "talking points" to fuel ratings.[/QUOTE]
This may be the very first thing we have agreed on.
I don't know what doses are being used. The COVID-19 patients have much compromised respiratory function, I would think, relative to the RA and lupus patients. That is an important change. What is safe for one patient population is not necessarily safe for another.
Is compromised respiratory function a contraindication for hydroxychloroquine?
Does it make the gap between the therapeutic dose and toxic dose closer?
We may or may not get a new indication for hydroxychloroquine.
It may or may not be a different dose than we normally see.
None of this changes the toxicity of hydroxychloroquine.
It may or may not be a different dose than we normally see.
None of this changes the toxicity of hydroxychloroquine.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Quit rooting for the virus. You’re on the wrong side of the War on Hydroxychloroquine.
There are many more rooting against HCQ than for it. Some of us just hope something works, and very soon.
I'll file this next to stoll's dumb claim that there are lots of people disappointed that 2,000,000 more Americans haven't died from this. You guys have your zoom call on getting better sources of information yet?
There is a lot of interest in the thread re unproven, unapproved remdesevir. Trump also mentioned the antiviral in the same presser on Mar 19, but only HCQ has been so negatively scrutinized/poo-pooed.
I'll file this next to stoll's dumb claim that there are lots of people disappointed that 2,000,000 more Americans haven't died from this. You guys have your zoom call on getting better sources of information yet?
Reasonable people understand neither has been proven and neither is the "miracle", but some wanted to squash any hope around HCQ simply becasue it happens to be Trump's favorite. Are you denying that? Personally, I don't care which one works. I don't know why anyone else would care either.
Some? Are you already walking this back one post later in the same thread?
Not really. Some is the same sum as many. About half the general population, but 75% of media and posters here.
Keeping their politics out of the news has been a problem for the MSM for quite a while now.
Keeping their politics out of the news has been a problem for the MSM for quite a while now.
Spending going up by 10% and deficits going up 26%? In what is supposedly the best economy ever? Math is so biased.
Hydroxychloroquine as treatment for COVID-19 shows no benefit and more deaths in VA study
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...enefit-and-more-deaths-in-va-study-2020-04-21
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...enefit-and-more-deaths-in-va-study-2020-04-21
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