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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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Not true. A number invested in getting definitive data it was/wasn’t. You should be amongst them.
3 new scientific studies reach the same conclusion on COVID-19’s origin
- Thread starter outside shooter
- Start date
It really shouldn’t matter should it? Either way China was negligent and third world.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Like this will do any good. You do realize that the it-was-made-in-a-lab people are likely all birthers?The multi-national team of authors of two studies released Saturday (150 pages, caveat: not yet peer-reviewed) concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in late 2019 and suggested that the virus spilled over into people working or shopping there on two separate occasions.
A third study was released on Friday from a Chinese group that had swabbed walls, floors and other surfaces inside the market, as well as meat still in freezers and refrigerators, right after authorities had closed the market, though no live animals remained there. They reported that the Huanan market samples included two evolutionary branches of the virus, known as lineages A and B, both of which had been circulating in early COVID cases in China. Earlier evidence had suggested that the market was only linked to lineage B, and therefore couldn’t be responsible for the initial outbreak of lineage A.
The studies together suggest at least two spillover events occurred at the market, at least one for each lineage.
press reports:
Pair of Studies Say COVID Originated in Wuhan Market
Scientists released a pair of extensive studies Saturday that point to a market in Wuhan, China, as the origin of the coronavirus pandemic. Analyzing data from a variety of sources, they concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold in the Huanan Seafood Wholesale...news.yahoo.com
New Research Points to Wuhan Market as Pandemic Origin (Published 2022)
Two new studies say the virus was present in animals at the Huanan seafood market in 2019.www.nytimes.com
two of the papers:
SARS-CoV-2 emergence very likely resulted from at least two zoonotic events
Understanding the circumstances that lead to pandemics is critical to their prevention. Here, we analyze the pattern and origin of genomic diversity of SARS-CoV-2 early in the COVID-19 pandemic. We show that the SARS-CoV-2 genomic diversity prior to February 2020 comprised only two distinct...zenodo.org
The Huanan market was the epicenter of SARS-CoV-2 emergence
Geographical clustering of the earliest known COVID-19 cases and the proximity of positive environmental samples to live-animal vendors suggest that the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the site of origin of the COVID-19 pandemic.
“It’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.
“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, a public health researcher at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”
But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.
The core info comes from a group of WHO researchers pinning down the location of the first 164 cases of COVID-19 in Wuhan over the course of December 2019. The highest density of December cases centered around the market — a relatively tiny spot in a city of 11 million people. Those cases included not just people who were initially linked to the market, but others who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.
The next 737 cases that followed emerged further and further from the market. The researchers ran tests that showed it was extremely unlikely that such a pattern could be produced merely by chance.
The study on collected tissues points to live animals. The researchers reconstructed the floor plan of the Huanan market based on the WHO report, the leaked Chinese CDC study and other sources. They then mapped the locations of positive environmental samples, finding that they clustered in the area where live animals were sold. Strikingly, five of the samples came from a single stall. That stall had been visited in 2014 by one of the co-authors of the new studies, Edward Holmes, a virus expert at the University of Sydney. On that trip, he had taken a photograph of a cage of raccoon dogs for sale at the time.
Below is the floor map of the market. The lower left area (red) is where live animals had been caged.
Kristian Andersen, a virus expert at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and the senior co-author of one of the new studies, said it was important to figure out where the wild mammals for sale at Huanan came from, and to look for evidence of past outbreaks in those places. It’s possible, for example, that villagers at the sources of that wildlife still carry antibodies from exposures to coronaviruses.
“If I had to say what would be most helpful to do now, it would be those types of studies,” he said.
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If you cling to “accidental lab leak” theory then I guess you could argue that it was leaked specifically to lab people who really were avid shoppers in the market, 20 milkes away, and they spread it more to shopping buddies than to coworkers. I have no reason to believe that would make any sense, though.
If you cling to “intentional lab-created bioweapon” theory then I guess you could argue that it was designed to first take out people in the market. That makes even less sense.
I guess you haven't seen the latest from the WHO re same
whoopsie daisy OP
WHO makes U-turn, urging further investigation on 'lab leak' theory in new Covid report
New study is a U-turn for the agency, which was criticized for ruling out the theory last year and has faced accusations of being too deferential to Beijing.www.nbcnews.com
The World Health Organization is recommending more investigation into the theory that Covid-19 leaked from a Chinese laboratory, something once dismissed by some as a conspiracy theory but since taken seriously by some experts and officials.
It's a U-turn by the WHO, which was last year heavily criticized for stating that it was "extremely unlikely" that the virus had leaked from a laboratory, and has faced accusations of being too credulous and deferential to China.
A lab leak was once seen as a fringe conspiracy theory, clouded by the mistaken belief that its supporters were suggesting that Covid had been intentionally released as a bioweapon. In fact, many of its exponents were postulating that the virus may have escaped from a lab, namely the Wuhan Institute of Virology, following an accident during virus tests. Thursday's report noted this was not only possible, but lab accidents in the past had triggered some outbreaks in the past.
More recently the Sino-WHO relationship has taken a hit, with Beijing censoring Tedros after he criticized its "zero-Covid" policy.
Jamie Metzl, who sits on a WHO advisory group unrelated to SAGO, told the AP that "the Chinese government is still refusing to share essential raw data and will not allow the necessary, full audit of the Wuhan labs."
The Who now insist they won't get fooled again.
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So the “scientific method” now includes “don't ask - we are afraid of the answer”.
Protect Fauci and the Chi-Coms!
Hide any facts we don't like!
Drink the bong Kool-Aid!
Investigation is treason!
Trump controls it all!
All dissent is flat-earth anti-Obama birthers!
2+2=4 even in her e-mails.
whoopsie daisy OP
WHO makes U-turn, urging further investigation on 'lab leak' theory in new Covid report
New study is a U-turn for the agency, which was criticized for ruling out the theory last year and has faced accusations of being too deferential to Beijing.
The World Health Organization is recommending more investigation into the theory that Covid-19 leaked from a Chinese laboratory, something once dismissed by some as a conspiracy theory but since taken seriously by some experts and officials.
It's a U-turn by the WHO, which was last year heavily criticized for stating that it was "extremely unlikely" that the virus had leaked from a laboratory, and has faced accusations of being too credulous and deferential to China.
A lab leak was once seen as a fringe conspiracy theory, clouded by the mistaken belief that its supporters were suggesting that Covid had been intentionally released as a bioweapon. In fact, many of its exponents were postulating that the virus may have escaped from a lab, namely the Wuhan Institute of Virology, following an accident during virus tests. Thursday's report noted this was not only possible, but lab accidents in the past had triggered some outbreaks in the past.
More recently the Sino-WHO relationship has taken a hit, with Beijing censoring Tedros after he criticized its "zero-Covid" policy.
Jamie Metzl, who sits on a WHO advisory group unrelated to SAGO, told the AP that "the Chinese government is still refusing to share essential raw data and will not allow the necessary, full audit of the Wuhan labs."
the lab leak was never a "fringe conspiracy theory".
it was always the most blatantly obvious source.
that it WASN'T the source, was always the "fringe conspiracy theory" being pushed by the moneyed interests and anyone really to blame..
as i've said since almost day one, what's needed is a full forensic financial "follow the money" audit as to who all was funding the lab. (as if that would ever be allowed by anyone with the power to stop it).
that said, what's scary, is that the only entity with all the lab data, is also the one that's most scared shtless over covid. (do they know something all others don't)?
"gain of function", deliberately dedicating top scientists and big money to genetically engineer as virulent a virus as they can. then make it even more virulent, then even more, etc, etc, etc.
what a beyond brilliant dedication of human and financial resources.
heads need to roll.. literally.
a crime on the level of anything Hitler or Stalin did.
Rand Paul tried to follow the money.
Remember how the Left reacted?
Remember how the Loonies on here posted?
The truth is currently irrelevant.
Maybe they can get to the bottom of the Florida condo collapse mystery too.
I don't agree with you on much but I certainly agree with you that the lack of ongoing, relentless attention to this is vexing. This is what we should be having hearings over. CDC. Fauci. NIH. Who. Gain of function. Where our money is going. Who we are funding and what. A fleecing of all of it. The genesis of this virus and the response to same should be ahead of climate by a long shot. It should be right after inflation. That the left has been so indifferent to discovering the source and accepting of whatever China conveys, enamored with fauci, and dismissive of the CDC's negligent response is bizarre. Wholly illogical.
I suspect maybe it's a we don't want the truth scenario bc honestly what are we going to do. Our recourse is negligible at best
Here is another interesting question.
Out of all the people that went into and out of the Trump administration, lasting from minutes to months, how did Fauci last?
Anybody and everybody else that ever opposed Trump on any issue, from what time of day is it to counting votes, was attacked and gone - either voluntarily or involuntarily - in milliseconds. But Fauci lasted throughout the whole administration and is still there for Covid.2 through Covid.infinity.
How and why?
the idiocracy never grasping when "the left" are really "the right" disguised in blue, is part of why they are the idiocracy.
is "gain of function" criminally negligent insanity not still going on multiple places today, including at US universities?
as for why CNN and MSNBC buried the origin and funding subjects from day one, who could ever possibly know.
nobody shut down the discussion 100% on the subjects in an instant more than they did, and from day one totally demonized anyone as a conspiracy nut considering the subject anything less than settled that it wasn't from the lab.
it's not like we could ever possibly know who's heavily funding and advertising 24/7/365 on CNN and MSNBC, and half all other major media.
He's got the good dirt on Trump?
Because Trump is smart enough to know when he's not qualified to deal with some things personally.
Fauci was a recognized 'expert' and Trump pretty much handed the whole thing over to him. Plus, if things went south - which they did - then Fauci would be to blame.
Except the left ignored the fact that Trump did everything Fauci recommended and blamed him instead. Even Trump didn't think the public would be so stupid to hold him personally responsible for the virus, but he was wrong.
Danc do you think the News Media might have had a hand in brainwashing people.
He probably knew the bank codes to the Russian bank that Trump's server had the connection to.
Fauci has big pharma money behind him.
not even Trump takes on big pharma money.
On the contrary, the head of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), like any NIH employee, has an amazing level of conflict of interest rules to follow.
As a scientist who has organized sympopia and hosted NIH researchers, I can tell you that this is 100% true. If you hold a scientific symposium and invite an NIH official to talk, you can't give him or her an honorarium. They are barred from even taking it. Even if they are the keynote speaker or receiving an award. An award that they cannot accept without going through red tape. You can't even pay for their dinner. You can't pay for their hotel stay. Their particiption in your symposium has to be pre-approved by a governmental watchdog agency. It must be deemed to be worthy of federal expenditures due to scientific merit. You can't even give them the conference "swag bag" ("Stuff We All Get"). You know, the bag of pens, T-shirts, and things like squishy foam hearts.
i'm out of my element here.
but i wasn't born yesterday either, and anyone who isn't a cynic these days, isn't paying attention..
of the 210 drugs approved by the FDA between 2010 and 2016, 100% of them involved research at least partially funded by the NIH, totaling over 100 billion in NIH funded research money over just those few years.
looks to the cynic in me like it works this way,
big pharma buys politicians.
those politicians then fund the NIH with taxpayer dollars.
the NIH then funds drug research with those taxpayer dollars, which develops new drugs.
then big pharma gets the patents on the drugs developed partially to mostly with taxpayer money.
then big pharma charges consumers, insurance, and taxpayer funded medicare and medicaid, beyond ridiculously absurd prices for those drugs that were partially to mostly financed by taxpayer money in the first place.
no doubt that isn't the whole story, or totally accurate.
but i'm guessing it's a lot more of the story, and a lot more accurate, than the big pharma heavily financed media wants us to realize.
that said, i'm sure it isn't personal.
just business.
and i'm guessing if you're messing with Fauci, or the NIH, you're messing with big pharma.
and if you wonder why the media is so deferential to Fauci, just wait for the commercial break.
He's the highest paid federal employee in the US. And he's now presided over 1 million deaths in the US.
But sure, no conflict of interest.....
despite not being a fan, what he earned last year isn’t anything to get bent out of shape about. Like all federal employees, he is cheap
You missed the point. He's paid more than anyone else in the government and he's useless. Worse than useless.
And yet, somehow, he's become a rich man.
How does that happen on a government salary?
I didn’t miss anything.
working past 80, saving well during the best years of secular bull markets, dual incomes (his wife worked -not sure if she still does).
it’s not surprising at all. I’m not debating his value, but where he is is common sense.
You forgot the obligatory media reference
A song that appears appropriate for a number of recent events including inflation, lockdowns, the summer of love and 2020 elections.
"Won't get fooled again" would be good walk-up music for Trump walking in the prison door in handcuffs.
The papers mentioned in the OP showing clear evidence for spread radiating from the market area instead of from the Wuhan lab (20 miles away) has now been fully peer reviewed and published, with all of the conclusions intact.
bottom line: You see proximity-driven spread for any airborne virus. There is crystal clear proximity-driven spread centered on the wet market. There is no proximity-driven spread centered on the virology institute. There are also swab samples from areas in the market showing, specifically, which animal holding areas within the wet market were the hot spots.
This is a solved issue. There are some missing details, granted, such as which specific animals carried it and where did they come from. But they did not come from the virology institute.
bottom line: You see proximity-driven spread for any airborne virus. There is crystal clear proximity-driven spread centered on the wet market. There is no proximity-driven spread centered on the virology institute. There are also swab samples from areas in the market showing, specifically, which animal holding areas within the wet market were the hot spots.
This is a solved issue. There are some missing details, granted, such as which specific animals carried it and where did they come from. But they did not come from the virology institute.
"This is a solved issue. There are some missing details, granted, such as which specific animals carried it and where did they come from. But they did not come from the virology institute."
And in reality there was never any scientific evidence to support the crackpot Q-level theory that it did. This Forbes article nails it
"Practically every time there’s a revolutionary new phenomenon or happenstance that significantly alters the course of human society, there are a number of ideas that arise to challenge the mainstream narrative. While these can be scientifically motivated by a subset of the evidence, more often these challenges take the form of a conspiracy theory: where a number of people involved allegedly know the real, full truth behind an issue, but are covering it up, presenting an alternative narrative instead. When you mix conspiracies with science, certain people are inevitably drawn to those ideas, which include:"
The Wuhan Lab Leak Hypothesis Is A Conspiracy Theory, Not Science
Despite the enormous flood of recent reports, there's no good evidence for a lab leak.
www.forbes.com
The reality is we see this exact phenomenon playing out on this board between the die hard conspiracy elements and the folks who know better but enjoy the chaos and employ it to foment political discord...
I mean did any serious person (who wasn't trolling) give any credence to the ridiculous Ivermectin claims? The whole concept was ludicrous from the start...
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