Why don't we want and why can't we have nice things?

[Thyrsis]

As I've mentioned here and here, there ought to be some pretty easy fundamental and shared bonds that drive governance in the USA. And all of it should derive from the common will of the electorate - an electorate that wants nice things that are attainable and will act in the voting both to hold leaders accountable for failure to engage in simple problem-solving (even if there will always be conflict and disagreement on tons of issues).

Health care in the US is barely functional. Patients aren't the clients of doctors or hospitals; payors are. It's all a complicated and effective billing industry, but there is no centralized care or treatment. If you break your arm, sure, you'll get the basic appropriate treatment. If you have cancer that has been diagnosed, I'm sure you'll get the appropriate treatment. We have some amazing drugs and treatments that we didn't have years ago. But it's still fundamentally broken. Getting care, especially when things aren't straightforward, is incredibly difficult, defeating, unhelpful, and mostly just non-existent. Nobody really talks about those things and there's no reason we shouldn't expect better. There is no accountability, no clarity, no plan; care points are parceled off to discrete billers that do different things with zero "health care" accountability. People will do stuff, but that's not at all the same as providing care. It used to be better in a former simpler world, but it could achieve the same today if the patients demanded it. The hospitals and insurers sure won't; it's not in any way in their best interest to change anything. Why isn't there more outcry? Instead, all we get is talking heads spouting off the latest partisan inanity on the topic du jour in a galactic struggle for party control that has little bearing on the daily lives of all of us (though, of course, there is that little thing we're experiencing now of seeing our democratic republic on the verge of totally losing its validity).

Public schools. They're basically under assault and caught up in a partisan battle that isn't going to lead anywhere good. Public schools have historically and traditionally held a critical part of our national system. Now they are seemingly the enemy despite the profound and real reasons we recognized the critical role to begin with.

There's a long list, but central to the decline is a lack of caring about those nice things. I wish I understood it.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

As I've mentioned here and here, there ought to be some pretty easy fundamental and shared bonds that drive governance in the USA. And all of it should derive from the common will of the electorate - an electorate that wants nice things that are attainable and will act in the voting both to hold leaders accountable for failure to engage in simple problem-solving (even if there will always be conflict and disagreement on tons of issues).

Health care in the US is barely functional. Patients aren't the clients of doctors or hospitals; payors are. It's all a complicated and effective billing industry, but there is no centralized care or treatment. If you break your arm, sure, you'll get the basic appropriate treatment. If you have cancer that has been diagnosed, I'm sure you'll get the appropriate treatment. We have some amazing drugs and treatments that we didn't have years ago. But it's still fundamentally broken. Getting care, especially when things aren't straightforward, is incredibly difficult, defeating, unhelpful, and mostly just non-existent. Nobody really talks about those things and there's no reason we shouldn't expect better. There is no accountability, no clarity, no plan; care points are parceled off to discrete billers that do different things with zero "health care" accountability. People will do stuff, but that's not at all the same as providing care. It used to be better in a former simpler world, but it could achieve the same today if the patients demanded it. The hospitals and insurers sure won't; it's not in any way in their best interest to change anything. Why isn't there more outcry? Instead, all we get is talking heads spouting off the latest partisan inanity on the topic du jour in a galactic struggle for party control that has little bearing on the daily lives of all of us (though, of course, there is that little thing we're experiencing now of seeing our democratic republic on the verge of totally losing its validity).

Public schools. They're basically under assault and caught up in a partisan battle that isn't going to lead anywhere good. Public schools have historically and traditionally held a critical part of our national system. Now they are seemingly the enemy despite the profound and real reasons we recognized the critical role to begin with.

There's a long list, but central to the decline is a lack of caring about those nice things. I wish I understood it.

Health care functionality is highly situational. I am fortunate to live a few miles from University of Colorado Mrdical School, and all my care is there. I couldn’t be more pleased. One location, one record and billing system, special attention from residents and fellows, one referral system, a highly responsive primary care team and every specialist can see the total picture in a few clicks. I’ve even been through the ambulatory track in the ER and was well pleased. My only complaint is the bureaucratic way to be seen outside of the ER. But they are addressing that with urgent care clinics in the area. I know this situation is the exception. I have friends and relatives who do not have that sort of care available to them and they must travel aroound and coordinate the providers on their own. A better way is possible, but it will require significant provider cooperation.

Public education is a national disgrace. It suffers from decades of benign neglect. It requires community involvement and the community doesn’t do that. Teacher groups became highly motivated 20 or 30 years ago and control everything—including public officials. We have incestuous thought and ideas and it shows. This is a much tougher nut to crack.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

The second paragraph on teacher groups controlling everything is bullshit. Not even worth a serious argument, which I have made a few times, but get no response.

 

[NPT]

Public schools. They're basically under assault and caught up in a partisan battle that isn't going to lead anywhere good. Public schools have historically and traditionally held a critical part of our national system. Now they are seemingly the enemy despite the profound and real reasons we recognized the critical role to begin with.

Public schools are under assault because a lot of them seems to be doing everything except teach. Math is math so teach math and don't try to bring religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The second paragraph on teacher groups controlling everything is bullshit. Not even worth a serious argument, which I have made a few times, but get no response.

Anecdotal for sure. But in the 80’s our local school board included a lawyer, a bank president, a stockbroker, a psychologist and others I don’t recall. No teachers or former teachers. A few years ago, 4 members were teachers or retired teachers. I spoke with the attorney for the state wide teacher organization once about that and he said the teacher groups deliberately made the effort to become active in board politics because of pay and working condition issues. They succeeded. Now the fall-out is well beyond pay and working conditions.

The teacher union influence over Walensky about school openings and masks was a disgrace for all concerned.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Public schools are under assault because a lot of them seems to be doing everything except teach. Math is math so teach math and don't try to bring religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it.

I think one of the purposes of a free public education is to build a cohesive common culture beyond educating students. Any sense of a common cohesive culture in the USA has now been blown to smithereens. Education played a role in that, but it isn’t the only cause. I don’t think we ever will achieve that now. There are simply too many vested interests in divisions and perpetual conflict

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Anecdotal for sure. But in the 80’s our local school board included a lawyer, a bank president, a stockbroker, a psychologist and others I don’t recall. No teachers or former teachers. A few years ago, 4 members were teachers or retired teachers. I spoke with the attorney for the state wide teacher organization once about that and he said the teacher groups deliberately made the effort to become active in board politics because of pay and working condition issues. They succeeded. Now the fall-out is well beyond pay and working conditions.

The teacher union influence over Walensky about school openings and masks was a disgrace for all concerned.

Anecdotal for sure. Here in Indy, outside political groups donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to school board races that had always been grassroots elections where candidates spent very little of their own money. Suddenly, people with political agendas were being elected to hand off struggling schools to out of state charter school corporations who had no history of success, never really did anything different, and have since fled the state having never improved anything, all in a state that has stripped teacher unions of any power.

True, IPS was and is a struggling school districts for many reasons beyond your simplistic boogeyman of teacher unions, but the charter schools conglomerates, many of which have a very tangled (and secretive, for some reason) web of political attachments to some very rich people, have done little to improve the situation. I have noticed that once schools struggle, they get federal funding, which equals big bucks and "school improvement" "gurus" always swarm like sharks detecting blood in the water. They stay a couple of years, then swim off before anyone can assess whether what they did was actually effective. All of this is done without any real input from teachers, or their unions.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Education played a role in that, but it isn’t the only cause.

Let me take a stab at the other role players. Let me know if any are wrong.
1. Liberals
2. BLM
3. The Squad
4. Democrats
5. Obama
6. Lefties
7. Social media/message boards
8. Those meddling kids
9.Solar/wind
10. Biden being "elected" POTUS

I'm sure I missed some.

 

[NPT]

Let me take a stab at the other role players. Let me know if any are wrong.
1. Liberals
2. BLM
3. The Squad
4. Democrats
5. Obama
6. Lefties
7. Social media/message boards
8. Those meddling kids
9.Solar/wind
10. Biden being "elected" POTUS

I'm sure I missed some.

Is that the list that didn't have anything to do with it?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Is that the list that didn't have anything to do with it?

Of course. Duh.

 

[IUCrazy2]

My 8th grader had a discussion on the second day of school (Thursday) discussing microaggressions. They were told that if they offended someone (in a way picked out by the people who came up with this stupid shit) that they would be sent to the principal to be "educated" on what they did that was wrong. One of the things brought up was "you guys" when addressed to a group of boys and girls is now a microaggression.

This same district used to be in the Top 5 or 6 in every measurable category for academics and over the past 10 years has been slowly declining in every measurement we have for academics. They used to brag about how great they were and now we get excuses about the test. When parents complain, they "just don't understand" and "that isn't happening here..." The schools would get more support if they would shut the **** up with all the "antiracism" (misnomer) and sexual bull shit and actually teach our kids useful things instead of 101 ways to be offended.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

My 8th grader had a discussion on the second day of school (Thursday) discussing microaggressions. They were told that if they offended someone (in a way picked out by the people who came up with this stupid shit) that they would be sent to the principal to be "educated" on what they did that was wrong. One of the things brought up was "you guys" when addressed to a group of boys and girls is now a microaggression.

This same district used to be in the Top 5 or 6 in every measurable category for academics and over the past 10 years has been slowly declining in every measurement we have for academics. They used to brag about how great they were and now we get excuses about the test. When parents complain, they "just don't understand" and "that isn't happening here..." The schools would get more support if they would shut the **** up with all the "antiracism" (misnomer) and sexual bull shit and actually teach our kids useful things instead of 101 ways to be offended.

No doubt, that is way over the line. I hope you continue to make your voice heard in your district.

 

[Sope Creek]

Public schools are under assault because a lot of them seems to be doing everything except teach. Math is math so teach math and don't try to bring religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it.

How do you know teachers are "bring[ing] religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it"?

MrsSope taught middle school math for 17 years and the primary thing she complained about was the additional bureaucratic bullshit that W's No Child Left Behind brought with it.

There was no religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else brought into it. That's just a conservative's myth.

 

[NPT]

How do you know teachers are "bring[ing] religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it"?

MrsSope taught middle school math for 17 years and the primary thing she complained about was the additional bureaucratic bullshit that W's No Child Left Behind brought with it.

There was no religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else brought into it. That's just a conservative's myth.

There have been a few threads on here about it. I don't think religion was mentioned... I was using those as examples just to say that math is math and don't bring anything else into the classroom when you teach it. IUCrazy had a thread about it on here a while back.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

How do you know teachers are "bring[ing] religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it"?

MrsSope taught middle school math for 17 years and the primary thing she complained about was the additional bureaucratic bullshit that W's No Child Left Behind brought with it.

There was no religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else brought into it. That's just a conservative's myth.

But he said "seems"...whatever the hell that means.

SC, I can't begin to like your post enough. I've been saying the same thing on here for a couple of years, and I'm always met with crickets (except for IUC, who I believe has a legitimate gripe).
Maybe others will listen to you.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

There have been a few threads on here about it. I don't think religion was mentioned... I was using those as examples just to say that math is math and don't bring anything else into the classroom when you teach it. IUCrazy had a thread about it on here a while back.

So, you're basing your knowledge of what "seems" to be going on in public school classrooms on discussion on this board?

 

[UncleMark]

So, you're basing your knowledge of what "seems" to be going on in public school classrooms on discussion on this board?

The outrage machine that is Fox/CNN/MSNBC/Water Cooler is like the reverse of a rear view mirror that says Objects Are Closer Than They Appear.

 

[IUCrazy2]

How do you know teachers are "bring[ing] religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it"?

MrsSope taught middle school math for 17 years and the primary thing she complained about was the additional bureaucratic bullshit that W's No Child Left Behind brought with it.

There was no religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else brought into it. That's just a conservative's myth.

Sope, you mentioned that your wife taught, in the past tense, for 17 years. Is she still teaching? I ask that because at least where I am at, this has been a new phenomenon. I have an 8th grader this year, the flip I have seen has occurred since he has started school. It went into overdrive after George Floyd.

I would respectfully say that Mrs. Sope is probably 100% accurate in her description of how things were for her 17 years and that things may have drastically changed since she was teaching because most of this stuff really hit our area just 2 years ago. And it keeps getting more silly. (See the microaggression issue I mentioned above.)

 

[snarlcakes]

I think one of the purposes of a free public education is to build a cohesive common culture beyond educating students. Any sense of a common cohesive culture in the USA has now been blown to smithereens. Education played a role in that, but it isn’t the only cause. I don’t think we ever will achieve that now. There are simply too many vested interests in divisions and perpetual conflict

The answer to public education isn’t difficult. Increase school choice and competition.

 

[IUclover]

Anecdotal for sure. Here in Indy, outside political groups donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to school board races that had always been grassroots elections where candidates spent very little of their own money. Suddenly, people with political agendas were being elected to hand off struggling schools to out of state charter school corporations who had no history of success, never really did anything different, and have since fled the state having never improved anything, all in a state that has stripped teacher unions of any power.

True, IPS was and is a struggling school districts for many reasons beyond your simplistic boogeyman of teacher unions, but the charter schools conglomerates, many of which have a very tangled (and secretive, for some reason) web of political attachments to some very rich people, have done little to improve the situation. I have noticed that once schools struggle, they get federal funding, which equals big bucks and "school improvement" "gurus" always swarm like sharks detecting blood in the water. They stay a couple of years, then swim off before anyone can assess whether what they did was actually effective. All of this is done without any real input from teachers, or their unions.

That’s happening in CO too and likely across the country. Outside money helping to elect radical conservative turds who know nothing about the education system.

 

[snarlcakes]

How do you know teachers are "bring[ing] religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it"?

MrsSope taught middle school math for 17 years and the primary thing she complained about was the additional bureaucratic bullshit that W's No Child Left Behind brought with it.

There was no religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else brought into it. That's just a conservative's myth.

This is my 16th year teaching. The first 14 years I had the same experience as Mrs. Sope. Last year it was brought up a couple times and already once this year. Every time it’s been with younger teachers. The shift is weird. I’m hoping it’s a cultural phenomenon from the pandemic that goes away sometime soon 🤞. Or maybe the world has passed me by and I need to do something else.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

How do you know teachers are "bring[ing] religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it"?

MrsSope taught middle school math for 17 years and the primary thing she complained about was the additional bureaucratic bullshit that W's No Child Left Behind brought with it.

There was no religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else brought into it. That's just a conservative's myth.

Ask any teacher and they’ll tell you that both NCLB and Common Core are both horribly distracting and burdensome.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

As I've mentioned here and here, there ought to be some pretty easy fundamental and shared bonds that drive governance in the USA. And all of it should derive from the common will of the electorate - an electorate that wants nice things that are attainable and will act in the voting both to hold leaders accountable for failure to engage in simple problem-solving (even if there will always be conflict and disagreement on tons of issues).

Health care in the US is barely functional. Patients aren't the clients of doctors or hospitals; payors are. It's all a complicated and effective billing industry, but there is no centralized care or treatment. If you break your arm, sure, you'll get the basic appropriate treatment. If you have cancer that has been diagnosed, I'm sure you'll get the appropriate treatment. We have some amazing drugs and treatments that we didn't have years ago. But it's still fundamentally broken. Getting care, especially when things aren't straightforward, is incredibly difficult, defeating, unhelpful, and mostly just non-existent. Nobody really talks about those things and there's no reason we shouldn't expect better. There is no accountability, no clarity, no plan; care points are parceled off to discrete billers that do different things with zero "health care" accountability. People will do stuff, but that's not at all the same as providing care. It used to be better in a former simpler world, but it could achieve the same today if the patients demanded it. The hospitals and insurers sure won't; it's not in any way in their best interest to change anything. Why isn't there more outcry? Instead, all we get is talking heads spouting off the latest partisan inanity on the topic du jour in a galactic struggle for party control that has little bearing on the daily lives of all of us (though, of course, there is that little thing we're experiencing now of seeing our democratic republic on the verge of totally losing its validity).

Public schools. They're basically under assault and caught up in a partisan battle that isn't going to lead anywhere good. Public schools have historically and traditionally held a critical part of our national system. Now they are seemingly the enemy despite the profound and real reasons we recognized the critical role to begin with.

There's a long list, but central to the decline is a lack of caring about those nice things. I wish I understood it.

You’re hitting on these at a VERY high level. Much of the world is passing us by in healthcare outcomes and education because of extremely high spending and pressure on kids in education and our bureaucratic healthcare system set up to handle all of the different facets of both government and private insurers.

Add to that access to more information (true and untrue) than ever and you have bad actors injecting distrust in all of it.

When my kids go to school they are happy. They’re learning and are challenged. Their new way of math makes no sense to me but these kids do math in their head faster than I ever could and I was fast. The woke nonsense has been minimal so far, but I’m in a district where it won’t really be tolerated and we’re a diverse district. So maybe we’re in a bubble.

In terms of healthcare, if you can access the system it’s the best healthcare in the world. If you have cancer there’s nowhere better. If you have rare disease there’s nowhere better. We as a people need to be collectively more active, less fat and our government should be encouraging this - not fat-accepting. Our unhealthy people affect our collective outcomes and that’s a problem. The main area besides fitness that we can address is access to healthcare. Republican governors should prioritize access to mental health and access to Medicaid/CHIP. Democrats should stop leaving access to SSI and other benefits so open-ended and leave them as bridges.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

There was no religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else brought into it. That's just a conservative's myth.

Serious question Sope, have you tried reading any of Bari Weiss' columns or guest columns? She's hardly a "conservative" in the way you mean, but she has presented countless examples.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

As I've mentioned here and here, there ought to be some pretty easy fundamental and shared bonds that drive governance in the USA. And all of it should derive from the common will of the electorate - an electorate that wants nice things that are attainable and will act in the voting both to hold leaders accountable for failure to engage in simple problem-solving (even if there will always be conflict and disagreement on tons of issues).

Health care in the US is barely functional. Patients aren't the clients of doctors or hospitals; payors are. It's all a complicated and effective billing industry, but there is no centralized care or treatment. If you break your arm, sure, you'll get the basic appropriate treatment. If you have cancer that has been diagnosed, I'm sure you'll get the appropriate treatment. We have some amazing drugs and treatments that we didn't have years ago. But it's still fundamentally broken. Getting care, especially when things aren't straightforward, is incredibly difficult, defeating, unhelpful, and mostly just non-existent. Nobody really talks about those things and there's no reason we shouldn't expect better. There is no accountability, no clarity, no plan; care points are parceled off to discrete billers that do different things with zero "health care" accountability. People will do stuff, but that's not at all the same as providing care. It used to be better in a former simpler world, but it could achieve the same today if the patients demanded it. The hospitals and insurers sure won't; it's not in any way in their best interest to change anything. Why isn't there more outcry? Instead, all we get is talking heads spouting off the latest partisan inanity on the topic du jour in a galactic struggle for party control that has little bearing on the daily lives of all of us (though, of course, there is that little thing we're experiencing now of seeing our democratic republic on the verge of totally losing its validity).

Public schools. They're basically under assault and caught up in a partisan battle that isn't going to lead anywhere good. Public schools have historically and traditionally held a critical part of our national system. Now they are seemingly the enemy despite the profound and real reasons we recognized the critical role to begin with.

There's a long list, but central to the decline is a lack of caring about those nice things. I wish I understood it.

I agree with some of what you say, but not everything. Starting from the bottom, do you really believe that "lack of caring" is the primary issue? From my perspective, there is plenty of time, energy, etc. being spent on trying to fix, improve or optimize healthcare and education. But, we first need to acknowledge how complex these topics are (certainly more complex than necessary in many cases) and then realize that the country has competing priorities for what they want. For instance, as it relates to HC, some want more spending on the elderly. Others want more spending on youth. For education, some are pushing for more STEM, others fighting to preserve creativity and arts, still others focused on reducing the importance of grades and test scores.

Some of your comments on HC are sadly true, which is that providers are catering to their payors. Payors have increasingly more control and power in relationships, both through acquiring provider services (e.g., Optum/UHG) and through the consolidation of private and public insurance options. Moreover, although value-based care has some nice intentions, there are plenty of drawbacks, including incentivizing providers to take the easiest and least risky patients. That isn't a good thing, for obvious reasons. Of course, CMS is actually driving much of that, so the government is certainly complicit to a degree as well.

But, it seems to me that choice is part of the issue. HIPAA rules and patient protections are viewed as critical, but certain inhibit care coordination. Here's a sad, but real example of such:

Marc Mar-Yohana on LinkedIn: #pediatriccancer #cancer #autism #epilepsy #children #families #caregivers | 39 comments

This is my favorite photo of my daughter Constance and her service dog Otis. Constance was 8 years old when she passed away. She died of an undiagnosed brain… | 39 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

In addition, people point towards poor outcomes as purely a function of the healthcare system. Circling back to education, the enablement and lack of emphasis on health for youth has been / is driving many of those poor outcomes. It's no surprise that we rank poorly in terms of obesity and if you walk around Disney World or any other vacation destination that attracts people from across the country, you realize just how bad things are. That puts a considerable amount of strain on the HC system and obviously on life expectancy.

 

[Sope Creek]

Sope, you mentioned that your wife taught, in the past tense, for 17 years. Is she still teaching? I ask that because at least where I am at, this has been a new phenomenon. I have an 8th grader this year, the flip I have seen has occurred since he has started school. It went into overdrive after George Floyd.

I would respectfully say that Mrs. Sope is probably 100% accurate in her description of how things were for her 17 years and that things may have drastically changed since she was teaching because most of this stuff really hit our area just 2 years ago. And it keeps getting more silly. (See the microaggression issue I mentioned above.)

Nope. She retired from teaching and has moved on to other things.

BTW, she was in a Title I school. The population demographics was about 45% Hispanic, 35% African-American and 20% Caucasian. Gangs operated in the school her first few years. Not the area. The school. Not so much recently.

They didn't have time for the religion, sexual orientation and politics bullshit. They had subject matter to teach.

 

[Sope Creek]

Serious question Sope, have you tried reading any of Bari Weiss' columns or guest columns? She's hardly a "conservative" in the way you mean, but she has presented countless examples.

Nope. Never heard of Bari Weiss.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Nope. Never heard of Bari Weiss.

Former editor of the NYT - big liberal albeit very Zionist. Left when they started censoring right wing voices and when the Times became overtly and uncaringly Left.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

In addition, people point towards poor outcomes as purely a function of the healthcare system. Circling back to education, the enablement and lack of emphasis on health for youth has been / is driving many of those poor outcomes. It's no surprise that we rank poorly in terms of obesity and if you walk around Disney World or any other vacation destination that attracts people from across the country, you realize just how bad things are. That puts a considerable amount of strain on the HC system and obviously on life expectancy.

I wonder which party is/was responsible for both putting an inordinate amount of importance behind standardized testing in ELA and math, and cutting money to schools that put them in the position of having to make the decision to forego the arts/PE in favor of more resources being spent on how to pass a once a year test?
PS - In Indiana, schools are not held accountable for science and social studies scores. Think about the ramifications of that.

 

[Sope Creek]

Former editor of the NYT - big liberal albeit very Zionist. Left when they started censoring right wing voices and when the Times became overtly and uncaringly Left.

And . . .?

I should care because . . . ? (This isn't for you necessarily . . . it's more for mjvcaj).

 

[snarlcakes]

Former editor of the NYT - big liberal albeit very Zionist. Left when they started censoring right wing voices and when the Times became overtly and uncaringly Left.

Is that code for a far far far right white Christian nationalist domestic terrorist?

 

[Spartans9312]

The most important thing in healthcare is the answers to the survey questions.

 

[Sope Creek]

Is that code for a far far far right white Christian nationalist domestic terrorist?

Which part? The "big liberal" reference? Or the "Zionist" reference?

 

[snarlcakes]

Let me take a stab at the other role players. Let me know if any are wrong.
1. Liberals
2. BLM
3. The Squad
4. Democrats
5. Obama
6. Lefties
7. Social media/message boards
8. Those meddling kids
9.Solar/wind
10. Biden being "elected" POTUS

I'm sure I missed some.

Add Michelle Obama to the list. The food went from a C+ to a F after her food program. #justthefacts

 

[Sope Creek]

Add Michelle Obama to the list. The food went from a C+ to a F after her food program. #justthefacts

You didn't answer my questions above.

Why not?

 

[snarlcakes]

You didn't answer my questions above.

Why not?

I didn’t see it. I was joking with Ranger because Bari Weis has been outcast by some progressives. I would classify her as a normal liberal.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

And . . .?

I should care because . . . ? (This isn't for you necessarily . . . it's more for mjvcaj).

Uhhh she’s sharp as a tack and has published numerous articles about how wokeness is destroying education and professions.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Is that code for a far far far right white Christian nationalist domestic terrorist?

Probably is now.

 

[cosmickid]

Public schools are under assault because a lot of them seems to be doing everything except teach. Math is math so teach math and don't try to bring religion, sexual orientation, politics or anything else into it.

It appears your premise is that the guilty party with regards to bringing extemporaneous subjects into the classroom is your political enemies- ie the Dems...

Have I outlined your position accurately? You always sort of seem kind of moderate, so I don't want to paint you as a selective extremist, like some of the folks who "liked" your post. I think I can safely say that Mas, Cray, Joe Hoops would all be inclined to characterize the inclusion of unwanted subjects as a uniquely Dem problem...

So I'm curious if you feel the examples cited in this video are offensive as well? I think this hits the bullseye when it comes to politics and religion being forced on students AND teachers...



And since Christian Nationalism is currently a hot topic, educator Jeffrey Sachs delved into more about the training in a recent twitter thread. You can follow this link to his twitter page to see the many examples he provides...



So does your post apply to these examples as well as what we all assume that we know you meant?

 

[cosmickid]

Serious question Sope, have you tried reading any of Bari Weiss' columns or guest columns? She's hardly a "conservative" in the way you mean, but she has presented countless examples.

So if Weiss isn't a "conservative" how exactly would you characterize her? Progressive? Liberal? I don't think people who actually consider themselves as "progressive" see Bari Weiss as someone they'd also describe that way...I'm actually not a progressive, and I don't subscribe to any of the progressive channels I often link to here. I just get videos that appear in my you tube feed, and if the topic interests me I watch them and sometimes link them here...

Most of these sites have decent hosts like Seder, Iadarola, and Uygur, but listening to many of the co-or guest hosts is like fingernails on a chalkboard. That seems to apply to this video and Emma and the other guest are exactly the type of annoying commenter that drive me nuts. But I like Seder and since Seder and Weiss are both Jewish and he calls out her attempts to cancel Palestinian profs at US Universities, it would be hard to deride that charge as anti-Semitic.

I'd say it's just a little disingenuous to be whining about being "cancelled" while appearing on CNN. And while I don't know for sure, I'd imagine Seder's claims that she quit her job at the NYT for a larger paycheck while continuing to claim she was "censored" is right on target as well...



Maybe it's just a coincidence that all these people who once claimed to be "liberal" like Greenwald, Weiss, Rubin, Straka, and even someone like Candace Owens who sued her high school over racism but now claims racism is non-existent, all came into a large amount of $$ $$ when they shifted to the Right.

If I was cynical I would point out how grifting on the Right is overall a much more lucrative occupation than doing so as a "progressive". I'd also point to the seed money someone like Charlie Kirk got from Billionaire GOP activists Foster Freiss and Home Depot founder Bernard Marcus to found Turning Point USA and engender his massive grift.

Or how Bari Weiss rode her reputation as a "renowned" Times reporter to her multi-million $ gig deriding cancel culture and promoting debunked theories like the "lab leak". Maybe it's a coincidence that basically all of the issues she seems most interested in choosing to opine on are the ones that resonate with Conservatives. Where the $$$$ are...