Why don't we want and why can't we have nice things?

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

So if Weiss isn't a "conservative" how exactly would you characterize her? Progressive? Liberal? I don't think people who actually consider themselves as "progressive" see Bari Weiss as someone they'd also describe that way...I'm actually not a progressive, and I don't subscribe to any of the progressive channels I often link to here. I just get videos that appear in my you tube feed, and if the topic interests me I watch them and sometimes link them here...

Most of these sites have decent hosts like Seder, Iadarola, and Uygur, but listening to many of the co-or guest hosts is like fingernails on a chalkboard. That seems to apply to this video and Emma and the other guest are exactly the type of annoying commenter that drive me nuts. But I like Seder and since Seder and Weiss are both Jewish and he calls out her attempts to cancel Palestinian profs at US Universities, it would be hard to deride that charge as anti-Semitic.

I'd say it's just a little disingenuous to be whining about being "cancelled" while appearing on CNN. And while I don't know for sure, I'd imagine Seder's claims that she quit her job at the NYT for a larger paycheck while continuing to claim she was "censored" is right on target as well...

View embedded media

Maybe it's just a coincidence that all these people who once claimed to be "liberal" like Greenwald, Weiss, Rubin,
Straka, and even someone like Candace Owens who sued her high school over racism but now claims racism is non-existent, all came into a large amount of $$ $$ when they shifted to the Right.

If I was cynical I would point out how grifting on the Right is overall a much more lucrative occupation than doing so as a "progressive". I'd also point to the seed money someone like Charlie Kirk got from Billionaire GOP activists Foster Freiss and Home Depot founder Bernard Marcus to found Turning Point USA and engender his massive grift. Or how Bari Weiss rode her reputation as a "renowned" Times reporter to her multi-million $ gig deriding cancel culture and promoting debunked theories like the "lab leak". Maybe it's a coincidence that basically all of the issues she seems most interested in choosing to opine on are the ones that resonate with Conservatives. Where the $$$$ are...

Sorry. You’re a lost cause not worth debating on anything if you don’t think she’s a Liberal. She’s all for social healthcare, reasonable immigration policy, all things social liberalism etc. She’s also bisexual and married to a woman. That shouldn’t matter, but to many of you it unfortunately does. But she’s not woke - so you cast her as not Liberal. For what it’s worth I think she’s way too Zionist.

The problem is that what used to be called Liberalism no longer passes for Liberalism by the Gen Z litmus test. There’s a problem with the test, not with Liberals. It’s high time non-Trump conservatives and real liberal Democrats get together and set this country straight. We’ll take a million Bari Weisses and we’ll win a ton of elections.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

And . . .?

I should care because . . . ? (This isn't for you necessarily . . . it's more for mjvcaj).

Because her site has been quoted many of times on this board with examples of your dismissals as "conservative's myth".

 

[IUCrazy2]

So if Weiss isn't a "conservative" how exactly would you characterize her? Progressive? Liberal? I don't think people who actually consider themselves as "progressive" see Bari Weiss as someone they'd also describe that way...I'm actually not a progressive, and I don't subscribe to any of the progressive channels I often link to here. I just get videos that appear in my you tube feed, and if the topic interests me I watch them and sometimes link them here...

Most of these sites have decent hosts like Seder, Iadarola, and Uygur, but listening to many of the co-or guest hosts is like fingernails on a chalkboard. That seems to apply to this video and Emma and the other guest are exactly the type of annoying commenter that drive me nuts. But I like Seder and since Seder and Weiss are both Jewish and he calls out her attempts to cancel Palestinian profs at US Universities, it would be hard to deride that charge as anti-Semitic.

I'd say it's just a little disingenuous to be whining about being "cancelled" while appearing on CNN. And while I don't know for sure, I'd imagine Seder's claims that she quit her job at the NYT for a larger paycheck while continuing to claim she was "censored" is right on target as well...

View embedded media

Maybe it's just a coincidence that all these people who once claimed to be "liberal" like Greenwald, Weiss, Rubin, Straka, and even someone like Candace Owens who sued her high school over racism but now claims racism is non-existent, all came into a large amount of $$ $$ when they shifted to the Right.

If I was cynical I would point out how grifting on the Right is overall a much more lucrative occupation than doing so as a "progressive". I'd also point to the seed money someone like Charlie Kirk got from Billionaire GOP activists Foster Freiss and Home Depot founder Bernard Marcus to found Turning Point USA and engender his massive grift.

Or how Bari Weiss rode her reputation as a "renowned" Times reporter to her multi-million $ gig deriding cancel culture and promoting debunked theories like the "lab leak". Maybe it's a coincidence that basically all of the issues she seems most interested in choosing to opine on are the ones that resonate with Conservatives. Where the $$$$ are...

A 6 paragraph ad hominem. Garbage.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

Anecdotal for sure. Here in Indy, outside political groups donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to school board races that had always been grassroots elections where candidates spent very little of their own money. Suddenly, people with political agendas were being elected to hand off struggling schools to out of state charter school corporations who had no history of success, never really did anything different, and have since fled the state having never improved anything, all in a state that has stripped teacher unions of any power.

True, IPS was and is a struggling school districts for many reasons beyond your simplistic boogeyman of teacher unions, but the charter schools conglomerates, many of which have a very tangled (and secretive, for some reason) web of political attachments to some very rich people, have done little to improve the situation. I have noticed that once schools struggle, they get federal funding, which equals big bucks and "school improvement" "gurus" always swarm like sharks detecting blood in the water. They stay a couple of years, then swim off before anyone can assess whether what they did was actually effective. All of this is done without any real input from teachers, or their unions.

Sorry if this is well known to long timers here, but are/were you an educator?

 

[8Stars5Banners]

My 8th grader had a discussion on the second day of school (Thursday) discussing microaggressions. They were told that if they offended someone (in a way picked out by the people who came up with this stupid shit) that they would be sent to the principal to be "educated" on what they did that was wrong. One of the things brought up was "you guys" when addressed to a group of boys and girls is now a microaggression.

This same district used to be in the Top 5 or 6 in every measurable category for academics and over the past 10 years has been slowly declining in every measurement we have for academics. They used to brag about how great they were and now we get excuses about the test. When parents complain, they "just don't understand" and "that isn't happening here..." The schools would get more support if they would shut the **** up with all the "antiracism" (misnomer) and sexual bull shit and actually teach our kids useful things instead of 101 ways to be offended.

So everyone, not just southerners, should say y’all now

 

[IUCrazy2]

So everyone, not just southerners, should say y’all now

I instructed my child to continue to talk how he talks and if he ends up with the Principal to call me and I will deal with her if appropriate.

I am actually expecting the district to get sued over the policy when they try and enforce it.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

I instructed my child to continue to talk how he talks and if he ends up with the Principal to call me and I will deal with her if appropriate.

I am actually expecting the district to get sued over the policy when they try and enforce it.

I certainly hope so…. I can’t imagine the number Of times I “micro-aggressed“ in the 1980’s

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Sorry if this is well known to long timers here, but are/were you an educator?

You would think so, wouldn't you, since I'm always educating posters on here.
I have lived/worked in Indy a long time, and the history of the educational system and how it formed into its current form is interesting.

 

[NPT]

I instructed my child to continue to talk how he talks and if he ends up with the Principal to call me and I will deal with her if appropriate.

I am actually expecting the district to get sued over the policy when they try and enforce it.

That's nothing more than speech police.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

As I've mentioned here and here, there ought to be some pretty easy fundamental and shared bonds that drive governance in the USA. And all of it should derive from the common will of the electorate - an electorate that wants nice things that are attainable and will act in the voting both to hold leaders accountable for failure to engage in simple problem-solving (even if there will always be conflict and disagreement on tons of issues).

Health care in the US is barely functional. Patients aren't the clients of doctors or hospitals; payors are. It's all a complicated and effective billing industry, but there is no centralized care or treatment. If you break your arm, sure, you'll get the basic appropriate treatment. If you have cancer that has been diagnosed, I'm sure you'll get the appropriate treatment. We have some amazing drugs and treatments that we didn't have years ago. But it's still fundamentally broken. Getting care, especially when things aren't straightforward, is incredibly difficult, defeating, unhelpful, and mostly just non-existent. Nobody really talks about those things and there's no reason we shouldn't expect better. There is no accountability, no clarity, no plan; care points are parceled off to discrete billers that do different things with zero "health care" accountability. People will do stuff, but that's not at all the same as providing care. It used to be better in a former simpler world, but it could achieve the same today if the patients demanded it. The hospitals and insurers sure won't; it's not in any way in their best interest to change anything. Why isn't there more outcry? Instead, all we get is talking heads spouting off the latest partisan inanity on the topic du jour in a galactic struggle for party control that has little bearing on the daily lives of all of us (though, of course, there is that little thing we're experiencing now of seeing our democratic republic on the verge of totally losing its validity).

Public schools. They're basically under assault and caught up in a partisan battle that isn't going to lead anywhere good. Public schools have historically and traditionally held a critical part of our national system. Now they are seemingly the enemy despite the profound and real reasons we recognized the critical role to begin with.

There's a long list, but central to the decline is a lack of caring about those nice things. I wish I understood it.

One big problem with our system is financial care of families and patients. Like in my case. My wife got out of the workforce to care for our children while I worked my a$$ off. She has been battling cancer for 8 years. It’s back and it’s now an automatic disability case but she hasn’t “worked” in 11 years. So now we are stuck. She will never go back into the workforce. Now I’m not home when she needs me the most. This system is broken. The healthcare and government systems are cruel and complicated. It’s another case of mothers in the home are looked down upon and forgotten.

speaking of turds… @Lucy01 you are a something special. You literally laugh at people that genuinely have problems.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

My 8th grader had a discussion on the second day of school (Thursday) discussing microaggressions. They were told that if they offended someone (in a way picked out by the people who came up with this stupid shit) that they would be sent to the principal to be "educated" on what they did that was wrong. One of the things brought up was "you guys" when addressed to a group of boys and girls is now a microaggression.

This same district used to be in the Top 5 or 6 in every measurable category for academics and over the past 10 years has been slowly declining in every measurement we have for academics. They used to brag about how great they were and now we get excuses about the test. When parents complain, they "just don't understand" and "that isn't happening here..." The schools would get more support if they would shut the **** up with all the "antiracism" (misnomer) and sexual bull shit and actually teach our kids useful things instead of 101 ways to be offended.

My daughter had orientation and it was refreshing that the school principal is progressive but also affirmed that the school is strict. This is a place of learning first. Feelings are second. Less distractions. While in class you will be taught on the core subject not what’s popular. Social topics aren’t in Math. The views of the teacher aren’t going to be pushed. That’s held true in the lower grades so far. Sometimes the views and life choices of the teacher gets pushed more than the actual curriculum but it’s not as rampant as people might think.

 

[IUCrazy2]

My daughter had orientation and it was refreshing that the school principal is progressive but also affirmed that the school is strict. This is a place of learning first. Feelings are second. Less distractions. While in class you will be taught on the core subject not what’s popular. Social topics aren’t in Math. The views of the teacher aren’t going to be pushed. That’s held true in the lower grades so far. Sometimes the views and life choices of the teacher gets pushed more than the actual curriculum but it’s not as rampant as people might think.

That's how it should be.

 

[stollcpa]

That’s happening in CO too and likely across the country. Outside money helping to elect radical conservative turds who know nothing about the education system.

As opposed to liberal turds who know nothing about the educational system.

 

[hoot1]

Isn't education a lifetime experience with the first couple of decades being important but not the end of the road ?

 

[IUCrazy2]

Isn't education a lifetime experience with the first couple of decades being important but not the end of the road ?

It isn't the end of the road but a massive amount of development occurs in those early years. Failing to adequately educate kids in the 5 to 18 range means that you are basically extending their childhood as many of them who have not adequately passed those grades are not able to enter adult society. They are behind to get into college and they are behind to pick up jobs to support themselves.

 

[hoot1]

Isn't education a lifetime experience with the first couple of decades being important but not the end of the road ?

Being born into a poor family can be overcome. The overcoming starts with a decent grade and high school education. Unfortunately living in a poor neighborhood could also mean getting a lousy education. In addition being in a non competitive environment can make you think you are smarter and better educated than you are.

Then if you somehow go to college the competition with students who are not necessarily smarter but are better educated along with having better studying habits, the trauma can be overwhelming.

As a nation we should be striving to bring out the best in everyone. We have too many areas of the country with poor educational systems and limited job opportunities. Think of these areas as education and job desserts.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It isn't the end of the road but a massive amount of development occurs in those early years. Failing to adequately educate kids in the 5 to 18 range means that you are basically extending their childhood as many of them who have not adequately passed those grades are not able to enter adult society. They are behind to get into college and they are behind to pick up jobs to support themselves.

That’s why all the emphasis on diversity, inclusion and equity is such a waste of time. A bad education cannot be fixed with these white privileged efforts.

 

[hoot1]

That’s why all the emphasis on diversity, inclusion and equity is such a waste of time. A bad education cannot be fixed with these white privileged efforts.

Have to wonder given 50 state legislatures and thousands of local school boards whether "diversity, inclusion, and equity" are the important objectives of education policy.

Sounds like the busing craze which dates back to several decades ago here in my community. A craze which has been replaced with private school vouchers and alternatives to public school domination in the form of charter schools.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

A 6 paragraph ad hominem. Garbage.

Yeah. I like cosmic most of the time. Deep thinker. Not this time. Can’t see the forest for the Woke trees.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Have to wonder given 50 state legislatures and thousands of local school boards whether "diversity, inclusion, and equity" are the important objectives of education policy.

I hope not. If we provide a decent and effective education, I think diversity, equity, and inclusion could take care of itself. But it will be a long road. We have generations of bad education to run through first.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Sorry. You’re a lost cause not worth debating on anything if you don’t think she’s a Liberal. She’s all for social healthcare, reasonable immigration policy, all things social liberalism etc. She’s also bisexual and married to a woman. That shouldn’t matter, but to many of you it unfortunately does. But she’s not woke - so you cast her as not Liberal. For what it’s worth I think she’s way too Zionist.

The problem is that what used to be called Liberalism no longer passes for Liberalism by the Gen Z litmus test. There’s a problem with the test, not with Liberals. It’s high time non-Trump conservatives and real liberal Democrats get together and set this country straight. We’ll take a million Bari Weisses and we’ll win a ton of elections.

I feel like our entire political debate has become one giant "No True Scotsman" fallacy. We should stop fighting over who is and isn't allowed to claim some particular label, accept that our own favorite labels will also include people we disagree with, as well as some really giant assholes, and instead move the debate back toward policy.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I feel like our entire political debate has become one giant "No True Scotsman" fallacy. We should stop fighting over who is and isn't allowed to claim some particular label, accept that our own favorite labels will also include people we disagree with, as well as some really giant assholes, and instead move the debate back toward policy.

Sure. I’m with you. Tell it to Biden. If you don’t vote for him, you ain’t Black.

 

[UncleMark]

Sure. I’m with you. Tell it to Biden. If you don’t vote for him, you ain’t Black.

That wasn't smart, agreed.

Why is it when Biden shoots from the hip and says something ridiculous his supporters cringe and shake their heads, while when Trump would throw out the most outrageous shit imaginable his followers loved him for it?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Sure. I’m with you. Tell it to Biden. If you don’t vote for him, you ain’t Black.

That doesn't help.

I didn't respond to you because there was something wrong with your post. I responded to you because your post best captured the inflection point in the discussion I thought led to this thought.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

That doesn't help.

I didn't respond to you because there was something wrong with your post. I responded to you because your post best captured the inflection point in the discussion I thought led to this thought.

Be clear. Old school liberals (Weiss, Maher, Rogan, YOU) are no longer considered liberals because they don’t subscribe to woke principles. Old school conservatives (me, Aloha, Spartans, twenty02, RINOs) are no longer considered conservative because we think MAGA is disastrous and we don’t think the election was stolen.

I am perfectly happy to call out my shitbirds. Are you up for the challenge?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

That wasn't smart, agreed.

Why is it when Biden shoots from the hip and says something ridiculous his supporters cringe and shake their heads, while when Trump would throw out the most outrageous shit imaginable his followers loved him for it?

Because 80% of our society is comprised of complete idiots?

 

[UncleMark]

Because 80% of our society is comprised of complete idiots?

Careful, stoll might try to get your shit deleted.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Be clear. Old school liberals (Weiss, Maher, Rogan, YOU) are no longer considered liberals because they don’t subscribe to woke principles. Old school conservatives (me, Aloha, Spartans, twenty02, RINOs) are no longer considered conservative because we think MAGA is disastrous and we don’t think the election was stolen.

I am perfectly happy to call out my shitbirds. Are you up for the challenge?

Yes. I was coming from the other direction, and saying, let's own up to our shitbirds, rather than call them out (although, we should do that, too). In other words, it's just as useless for you and I to say they aren't "real" conservatives and liberals as it is for them to say we aren't.

Sorry if I was or still am unclear. I took a two hour nap this afternoon, and I'm still woozy.

 

[T.M.P.]

woke principles

What are those?

 

[T.M.P.]

Are you up for the challenge?

I am .... how much money per example?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Be clear. Old school liberals (Weiss, Maher, Rogan, YOU) are no longer considered liberals because they don’t subscribe to woke principles. Old school conservatives (me, Aloha, Spartans, twenty02, RINOs) are no longer considered conservative because we think MAGA is disastrous and we don’t think the election was stolen.

I am perfectly happy to call out my shitbirds. Are you up for the challenge?

Hell we can’t even say or quote what someone else says without getting called out. If I speak against a crazy leftest then the crazy rights put smiley faces on it. Same for the lefty’s if I say crazy right wing. They can’t understand I’m really in the center and get tired of the always partisan sh!t. If I wanted to watch volleyball I would.

 

[Lucy01]

Hell we can’t even say or quote what someone else says without getting called out. If I speak against a crazy leftest then the crazy rights put smiley faces on it. Same for the lefty’s if I say crazy right wing. They can’t understand I’m really in the center and get tired of the always partisan sh!t. If I wanted to watch volleyball I would.

😊

 

[8Stars5Banners]

Hell we can’t even say or quote what someone else says without getting called out. If I speak against a crazy leftest then the crazy rights put smiley faces on it. Same for the lefty’s if I say crazy right wing. They can’t understand I’m really in the center and get tired of the always partisan sh!t. If I wanted to watch volleyball I would.

but since volleyball is so boring, why???

 

[Victorbmyboy]

but since volleyball is so boring, why???

That’s why I hate volleyball(politics).

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Be clear. Old school liberals (Weiss, Maher, Rogan, YOU) are no longer considered liberals because they don’t subscribe to woke principles. Old school conservatives (me, Aloha, Spartans, twenty02, RINOs) are no longer considered conservative because we think MAGA is disastrous and we don’t think the election was stolen.

I am perfectly happy to call out my shitbirds. Are you up for the challenge?

What is disastrous about MAGA? I think almost all the MAGA policies are pretty damn good and we can use those now, especially border, energy, criminal justice and America First foreign policy.

Looks to me you have fallen into the Biden/Democrat/Media ulta-MAGA nonsense by painting solid GOP policies as a disaster just because Trump accomplished them.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I am .... how much money per example?

Always $0.69

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

What is disastrous about MAGA? I think almost all the MAGA policies are pretty damn good and we can use those now, especially border, energy, criminal justice and America First foreign policy.

Looks to me you have fallen into the Biden/Democrat/Media ulta-MAGA nonsense by painting solid GOP policy as a disaster just because Trump accomplished them.

Bullshit. None of those are MAGA principles - those are conservative principles co-opted by a raving buffoon and his kool aid cultists.

MAGA is a mindset - a snarky, absurd sense of rhetoric that somehow emboldens miscreants from our society ranging from incels to white supremacists. Note that I’m not saying Trump supporters are in this bucket, but true blue MAGA people are.

Oh and I also pay more taxes because of the Truml tax plan. So that’s cool - and super conservative right?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

What are those?

Your continued ostriching over woke is my favorite thing about you. It’s almost exceeding your music knowledge. But I choose to remember music TMP.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

but since volleyball is so boring, why???

You’re watching the wrong volleyball.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Your continued ostriching over woke is my favorite thing about you. It’s almost exceeding your music knowledge. But I choose to remember music TMP.

If I had a nickel for every time you use the word, "woke", I could buy myself a spiffy new solar panel.