ADVERTISEMENT

Daily Show on Critical Race Theory

White single-parent families tend to have more wealth than Black or Latino two-parent families. Of course that assumes the data is good. But if it is true, what does that say about the opportunity-result gap?
The wealth gap is probably the result of home ownership. You need a decent job to qualify for a home. You need a decent education to qualify for a decent job. We know that public education fails many minorities, particularly male minorities. Now the educrats believe that teaching the 1619 project and CRT will improve education thus allowing black males to fully participate in good jobs and spin-offs like home ownership. I disagree, There are many here, maybe you, who think the 1619 project and CRT is a way forward for a meaningful education.
 
I think there is a missing question, where does the failure to have equality of results stem? It can't be CRT, the inequality of results existed long before anyone seriously considered CRT. I often hear single parents is a cause. OK, why does single parent 1) seem to matter more to Blacks on opportunity and 2) why do Blacks have more single parents? For example:

  • The median two-parent black family had $16,000 in wealth.
  • The median two-parent Latino family had $18,800 in wealth.
  • The median single-parent white family had $35,800 in wealth (two-parent white families had $161,300).
(source https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-have-half-the-wealth-of-white-single-parents)

White single-parent families tend to have more wealth than Black or Latino two-parent families. Of course that assumes the data is good. But if it is true, what does that say about the opportunity-result gap?

I don't agree with anyone saying that being White guarantees success or being Black guarantees hardship. But a privilege does exist. I saw a friend put up a quote attributed to Barry Switzer, "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple". While I think for a very few that is true (a former president comes to mind) but for most Americans that is a gross exaggeration. I would suggest this, "some people step up to bat with an 0-1 count on them".

What does it mean to be of European descent in America? I'm not sure that isn't a darn good question to discuss. I think too often we think that to be American is to be an American of European descent. When asked to name an event from US history, I doubt many Whites name an event with mostly Blacks. When asked to name a great American, I doubt many Whites name a Black (or a woman). When asked to picture life on the frontier, or in Colonial America, I doubt Blacks are in the picture at all. We tend to naturally view America through a European descent filter. Part of that isn't the fault of people today. We largely kept Blacks out of the combat units of WWII so there isn't much there to teach (same for all the wars pre-Korea). We didn't elect Blacks in any great numbers until recently. Until Herman Welles Blacks weren't allowed to live on campus at an IU. Banneker Center in Bloomington was the school for Blacks so for a long time we didn't share the same schooling. But Blacks (and Latinos and Native Americans) had their own experiences that are as real and as American as that my ancestors had. Realizing that America has a huge range of people and experiences and we can get too easily caught up in the names of just Whites (Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Lincoln, Lee, Grant, Pershing, MacArthur, Patton, Ike, OW Holmes, Kennesaw Landis, JFK, etc) as seeing White America as America and not just one slice of America. I think that's the term I like, being White in America is just a slice of America and we need to realize it isn't America, just a slice.
What other variables are predictors of income?
 
I think there is a missing question, where does the failure to have equality of results stem? It can't be CRT, the inequality of results existed long before anyone seriously considered CRT. I often hear single parents is a cause. OK, why does single parent 1) seem to matter more to Blacks on opportunity and 2) why do Blacks have more single parents? For example:

  • The median two-parent black family had $16,000 in wealth.
  • The median two-parent Latino family had $18,800 in wealth.
  • The median single-parent white family had $35,800 in wealth (two-parent white families had $161,300).
(source https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-have-half-the-wealth-of-white-single-parents)

White single-parent families tend to have more wealth than Black or Latino two-parent families. Of course that assumes the data is good. But if it is true, what does that say about the opportunity-result gap?

I don't agree with anyone saying that being White guarantees success or being Black guarantees hardship. But a privilege does exist. I saw a friend put up a quote attributed to Barry Switzer, "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple". While I think for a very few that is true (a former president comes to mind) but for most Americans that is a gross exaggeration. I would suggest this, "some people step up to bat with an 0-1 count on them".

What does it mean to be of European descent in America? I'm not sure that isn't a darn good question to discuss. I think too often we think that to be American is to be an American of European descent. When asked to name an event from US history, I doubt many Whites name an event with mostly Blacks. When asked to name a great American, I doubt many Whites name a Black (or a woman). When asked to picture life on the frontier, or in Colonial America, I doubt Blacks are in the picture at all. We tend to naturally view America through a European descent filter. Part of that isn't the fault of people today. We largely kept Blacks out of the combat units of WWII so there isn't much there to teach (same for all the wars pre-Korea). We didn't elect Blacks in any great numbers until recently. Until Herman Welles Blacks weren't allowed to live on campus at an IU. Banneker Center in Bloomington was the school for Blacks so for a long time we didn't share the same schooling. But Blacks (and Latinos and Native Americans) had their own experiences that are as real and as American as that my ancestors had. Realizing that America has a huge range of people and experiences and we can get too easily caught up in the names of just Whites (Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Lincoln, Lee, Grant, Pershing, MacArthur, Patton, Ike, OW Holmes, Kennesaw Landis, JFK, etc) as seeing White America as America and not just one slice of America. I think that's the term I like, being White in America is just a slice of America and we need to realize it isn't America, just a slice.
Regarding your last paragraph, Critical Race Theory and antiracism do not have a monopoly on teaching history from different perspectives (which I believe you are correct about). That is a false dichotomy set up by proponents of CRT and antiracism.

The other false dichotomy is that if you are not an antiracist as defined by Ibram X. Kendi, you are then by definition a racist (or "espousing racist ideas.") That thinking kills any rational debate on the subject. Ask yourself: given how big an issue this has become, why have no prominent CRT/antiracists debated the underlying merits of their ideas? Kendi, Hannah-Jones, DiAngelo. They--and many others in the name of antiracism--do this intentionally because they maintain that to debate their ideas is racist and that those who question them are to be shamed.

Here is what Ibram X. Kendi wants for America, in his own words:

To fix the original sin of racism, Americans should pass an anti-racist amendment to the U.S. Constitution that enshrines two guiding anti-racist principals: Racial inequity is evidence of racist policy and the different racial groups are equals. The amendment would make unconstitutional racial inequity over a certain threshold, as well as racist ideas by public officials (with “racist ideas” and “public official” clearly defined). It would establish and permanently fund the Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees. The DOA would be responsible for preclearing all local, state and federal public policies to ensure they won’t yield racial inequity, monitor those policies, investigate private racist policies when racial inequity surfaces, and monitor public officials for expressions of racist ideas. The DOA would be empowered with disciplinary tools to wield over and against policymakers and public officials who do not voluntarily change their racist policy and ideas.


I don't throw around the word totalitarian lightly. But I have a hard time seeing how that term doesn't apply to Kendi's desires. And who do you think Kendi believes is best suited to lead his DOA?
 
I think there is a missing question, where does the failure to have equality of results stem? It can't be CRT, the inequality of results existed long before anyone seriously considered CRT. I often hear single parents is a cause. OK, why does single parent 1) seem to matter more to Blacks on opportunity and 2) why do Blacks have more single parents? For example:

  • The median two-parent black family had $16,000 in wealth.
  • The median two-parent Latino family had $18,800 in wealth.
  • The median single-parent white family had $35,800 in wealth (two-parent white families had $161,300).
(source https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-have-half-the-wealth-of-white-single-parents)

White single-parent families tend to have more wealth than Black or Latino two-parent families. Of course that assumes the data is good. But if it is true, what does that say about the opportunity-result gap?

I don't agree with anyone saying that being White guarantees success or being Black guarantees hardship. But a privilege does exist. I saw a friend put up a quote attributed to Barry Switzer, "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple". While I think for a very few that is true (a former president comes to mind) but for most Americans that is a gross exaggeration. I would suggest this, "some people step up to bat with an 0-1 count on them".

What does it mean to be of European descent in America? I'm not sure that isn't a darn good question to discuss. I think too often we think that to be American is to be an American of European descent. When asked to name an event from US history, I doubt many Whites name an event with mostly Blacks. When asked to name a great American, I doubt many Whites name a Black (or a woman). When asked to picture life on the frontier, or in Colonial America, I doubt Blacks are in the picture at all. We tend to naturally view America through a European descent filter. Part of that isn't the fault of people today. We largely kept Blacks out of the combat units of WWII so there isn't much there to teach (same for all the wars pre-Korea). We didn't elect Blacks in any great numbers until recently. Until Herman Welles Blacks weren't allowed to live on campus at an IU. Banneker Center in Bloomington was the school for Blacks so for a long time we didn't share the same schooling. But Blacks (and Latinos and Native Americans) had their own experiences that are as real and as American as that my ancestors had. Realizing that America has a huge range of people and experiences and we can get too easily caught up in the names of just Whites (Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Lincoln, Lee, Grant, Pershing, MacArthur, Patton, Ike, OW Holmes, Kennesaw Landis, JFK, etc) as seeing White America as America and not just one slice of America. I think that's the term I like, being White in America is just a slice of America and we need to realize it isn't America, just a slice.
yeah and i've said this before. maybe money is the issue. maybe reparations or UBI is the answer. it reduces gov and decades of failed programs that I GUARANTEE we will be revisiting under Biden's trillions in funding and in theory provides guaranteed income that should shore up (to some extent) shitty credit etc. allowing for more ownership opportunities and on and on. maybe that at least puts everyone on first base
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvin the Martian
Keep in mind, this imprecise all-pervasive CRT he is worried about exists...among conservatives. You won't find liberals talking about CRT all the time or trying to apply it to all life situations. You only find conservatives doing that.

It's a bogeyman. As I agreed with Ranger elsewhere, CRT is serious stuff that probably doesn't belong in primary school, just as most graduate-level academic paradigms don't belong there, and if someone like COH can misrepresent it so badly, then it's certainly possible a well-meaning civics teacher would do the same.

But in real life, this thing exists on TV and Radio in the minds and mouths of conservative pundits.
Respectfully, you don't know what you are talking about. It is not in schools, according to some, because that is not what it is called. However, it is introduced as part of SEL (social emotional learning) and also as part of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion). The administrator of my children's school indicates that they are not teaching CRT on one hand while sending out emails that they will continue to be antirascists. "Well what is wrong with that Crazy, don't we dislike racism?" Yes, we absolutely do dislike racism and discrimination. The problem arises because the people who consider themselves antiracists have a different definition of that term. Kendi wrote a whole book on it. The only way to resolve past discrimination is with present discrimination. That is from him, anyone can feel free to Google it.

The terms around these things are not what parents have an issue with (and it is starting to get a whole bunch of attention since kids have been home and parents have had a chance to snoop on what is being taught). Nobody has an issue with respecting everyone and telling students not to be bullies. However, when you have teachers telling kids that the current systems are based in white supremacy and doing little exercises to determine their privelege, then we have a problem.

It is not a teacher's place or the educational system's place to have that conversation with kids because adults don't agree on it. Shitty stuff happened in the past, we are ok to discuss that. However, that was not the sole determining factor in this country nor is it a major impediment to anyone's ability to succeed.

And that is just the race portion. Don't even get me started on teaching kids that things have to be equitable. They have to have an equal opportunity to succeed, not everyone can or should count on starting at the same position in life as everyone else. That is not how the world works and it is setting our kids up for failure in a globally competitive world. We waste time on this bull shit while the Chinese laugh their asses off and churn out millions of engineering students.
 
Last edited:
Certainly education. But at each level Blacks are behind. https://www.stlouisfed.org/publicat...ic-wealth-differences-across-education-levels

That measures wealth. Simply put, a family with wealth can pass on wealth. Whites have tended to have more wealth. White Americans have had generations longer to accumulate and pass along wealth. Not my fault, or your fault, but true.
All true. So UBI. Not an attack on meritocracy or crt derivations in class or instituting measures to ensure equality of outcome. Level the floor economically
 
Certainly education. But at each level Blacks are behind. https://www.stlouisfed.org/publicat...ic-wealth-differences-across-education-levels

That measures wealth. Simply put, a family with wealth can pass on wealth. Whites have tended to have more wealth. White Americans have had generations longer to accumulate and pass along wealth. Not my fault, or your fault, but true.
and the programs don't work. and i don't know why the dems can't see that. here's an example i've posted about before. my buddy owns a car dealership. he killed it when the stimulous money hit. shit ton of people, poor people, came in and bought cars. now imagine if you're poor you can get metrolink vouchers. total miserable cluster f*ck. you have to take three trains and two buses to get to a job. now it's free because of the voucher but where you can get a job is limited bc you have to follow the public transit lines and the job itself is impossible because the commute will add literally hours so you have to sort out daycare and all sorts of crap. if you got the money directly instead of the stupid vouchers you could just buy a car. now you have more and better opportunities and it trickles down to making your daycare easier on and on.

we need to get out of the mindset that government can do and can do better for people. give the money back to the people and let people do for themselves
 
  • Like
Reactions: anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Certainly education. But at each level Blacks are behind. https://www.stlouisfed.org/publicat...ic-wealth-differences-across-education-levels

That measures wealth. Simply put, a family with wealth can pass on wealth. Whites have tended to have more wealth. White Americans have had generations longer to accumulate and pass along wealth. Not my fault, or your fault, but true.
No argument on wealth. How does one earn wealth?
Certainly education. But at each level Blacks are behind. https://www.stlouisfed.org/publicat...ic-wealth-differences-across-education-levels

That measures wealth. Simply put, a family with wealth can pass on wealth. Whites have tended to have more wealth. White Americans have had generations longer to accumulate and pass along wealth. Not my fault, or your fault, but true.
Income leads to wealth - especially over generations - I didn’t and won’t inherit a dime from my parents when they pass. But I chose a career path and educational discipline that would lead to higher incomes.

I’d like to see a chart/study on majors/disciplines for two/four year degrees by race. I expect we’d find that AAs and Hispanics are not getting technical and business degrees and are instead focused on liberal arts and lower-paying career studies.

Because the inverse doesn’t make sense. You’d be saying as a hiring manager “I’m gonna pay you less because you’re black” and that’s freaking preposterous.
 
No argument on wealth. How does one earn wealth?

Income leads to wealth - especially over generations - I didn’t and won’t inherit a dime from my parents when they pass. But I chose a career path and educational discipline that would lead to higher incomes.

I’d like to see a chart/study on majors/disciplines for two/four year degrees by race. I expect we’d find that AAs and Hispanics are not getting technical and business degrees and are instead focused on liberal arts and lower-paying career studies.

Because the inverse doesn’t make sense. You’d be saying as a hiring manager “I’m gonna pay you less because you’re black” and that’s freaking preposterous.
I would bet anything that’s true. STEM for minorities is something like 4 percent
 
  • Like
Reactions: anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
The Germans committed horrible atrocities in WWII and the Japanese were worse. The Japanese even singled out Americans. In both cases we have assigned those atrocities to history. We now have cordial relations and we don’t think of horrible torture and death every time we see a V W or a Toyota. After the Civil War, the U S provided amnesty and pardons in an effort to re-unite us. Nowadays, we again speak in terms of treason, slavery, and original sin. Why do we do this to ourselves? None of that is necessary to move forward. But all of it is necessary if the political interests want to re-ignite divisions for political gain. “Jim Crow on Steroids” is not a good message.

Radical Islam still fights The Crusades.

40 years wandering the desert didn’t help Moses fix the Hebrews.

The Palestinians and The Hebrews still fight over The Promised Land.

Lincoln was wrongly optimistic when he hoped the Civil War was the penance for American slavery.

Japan and China have WWII issues.

And I’ve hated Democrats and the Kentucky Wildcats since 1968.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F.Fletch
Having the discussion is progress. My wife (white, Kansas-bred, Republican [never Trumper]) recently read Xandi's book How to Be An Anti-Racist. She hasn't become self-loathing as a result, but says it opened her eyes to many things.

I agree this topic shouldn't be dumped-on kids without careful thought. But too many seem to associate America's ideals with European heritage. That's antithetical to the Declaration of Independence.
 
and the programs don't work. and i don't know why the dems can't see that. here's an example i've posted about before. my buddy owns a car dealership. he killed it when the stimulous money hit. shit ton of people, poor people, came in and bought cars. now imagine if you're poor you can get metrolink vouchers. total miserable cluster f*ck. you have to take three trains and two buses to get to a job. now it's free because of the voucher but where you can get a job is limited bc you have to follow the public transit lines and the job itself is impossible because the commute will add literally hours so you have to sort out daycare and all sorts of crap. if you got the money directly instead of the stupid vouchers you could just buy a car. now you have more and better opportunities and it trickles down to making your daycare easier on and on.

we need to get out of the mindset that government can do and can do better for people. give the money back to the people and let people do for themselves

You raise a great problem with mass transit. It is bad, so people don't use it so it gets cash starved so fewer people use it so it gets worse and gets cash starved ... .

But letting people keep money is hardly an answer for the poor. They have little to keep and pay little in taxes. And cars have huge hidden costs. If you live downtown StL, how much is parking? Insurance? Gas? Maintenance? It all adds up. In NY, parking is a real disaster.

The trick is finding balance. How do we provide meaningful help yet not waste money. There is a question that typically differentiates left from right. There are two systems to provide aid for the needy. In A, about 5% of the needy will not receive any help but there will be no fraud. In B, about 5% of the people receiving aid will be scamming the system but every single person in need will be helped. Which do you choose.

Conservatives find the waste more of a problem and choose B, liberals find needy people not getting assistance worse and choose A. I honestly believe most of us are in that fairly narrow range. Not many want no aid, not many want aid to flow like water.

But the cutoff between those two narrow sides is very sharp. It is the difference between being a fascist and a communist. Not really, but the nation's rhetoric suggests that to be true.
 
You raise a great problem with mass transit. It is bad, so people don't use it so it gets cash starved so fewer people use it so it gets worse and gets cash starved ... .

But letting people keep money is hardly an answer for the poor. They have little to keep and pay little in taxes. And cars have huge hidden costs. If you live downtown StL, how much is parking? Insurance? Gas? Maintenance? It all adds up. In NY, parking is a real disaster.

The trick is finding balance. How do we provide meaningful help yet not waste money. There is a question that typically differentiates left from right. There are two systems to provide aid for the needy. In A, about 5% of the needy will not receive any help but there will be no fraud. In B, about 5% of the people receiving aid will be scamming the system but every single person in need will be helped. Which do you choose.

Conservatives find the waste more of a problem and choose B, liberals find needy people not getting assistance worse and choose A. I honestly believe most of us are in that fairly narrow range. Not many want no aid, not many want aid to flow like water.

But the cutoff between those two narrow sides is very sharp. It is the difference between being a fascist and a communist. Not really, but the nation's rhetoric suggests that to be true.
But that’s the point. Barely anyone lives downtown. The jobs are spread out all over the metro. So pumping money into public transit fails to recognize the reality of peoples’ situations and the metro’s employment opportunities. And that’s one example of gov just continuing to do what it always does
 
No argument on wealth. How does one earn wealth?

Income leads to wealth - especially over generations - I didn’t and won’t inherit a dime from my parents when they pass. But I chose a career path and educational discipline that would lead to higher incomes.

I’d like to see a chart/study on majors/disciplines for two/four year degrees by race. I expect we’d find that AAs and Hispanics are not getting technical and business degrees and are instead focused on liberal arts and lower-paying career studies.

Because the inverse doesn’t make sense. You’d be saying as a hiring manager “I’m gonna pay you less because you’re black” and that’s freaking preposterous.
I mostly agree with your post, which I know seems surprising. I am certainly not a believer that there is a mass of hiring manager's saying they will pay less. Especially at corporations. It almost certainly happens somewhere in America, but not significantly.

But there are other ways. At subconscious levels who knows why a person has a "good feeling" about Joe and not Frank. That might matter on raises and promotions.
 
Here is an article I found explaining CRT in the classroom.


For those that do not want to read it, some relevant sections:

Some critics have argued that CRT’s efforts to highlight and analyze the role of white supremacy in U.S. history, politics, and culture only serves to heighten racial divisions. However, a thoughtful use of CRT can, in fact, be a unifying force, providing opportunities for students of every race and ethnicity across the United States to wrestle with the ways in which racial oppression has held all of us back (Rose, 1996) and to understand that racism will only continue to hamper our collective progress as the world becomes more globalized and connected. Ultimately, the point of CRT isn’t to assign blame to one group of students but to enable students of all races and ethnicities to have informed, productive conversations about the forces that have shaped, and continue to shape, the society in which they live.​


...​
Bringing multiple historical perspectives of U.S. history into the curriculum creates important opportunities for high-level thinking and analysis. It requires students to consider differing narratives, wrestle over competing views, and come to their own conclusions about the past and its influence on the present. Ideally, the classroom offers a safe place for such public debate, one where young people can learn to make and defend arguments and, in the process, develop a healthy ”respect for the equal standing of all citizens and common recognition that reasonable people can disagree” (Justice & Macleod, 2016, p. 5).​
...​
Even after the course was approved, the controversy didn’t end. Over the subsequent weeks, the course gained national attention in both the news and social media. Ironically, while the course was designed to stem the polarized nature of discussions surrounding race in the U.S., it attracted intensely polarized responses. The Wall Street Journal published an opinion piece by civil rights activist Robert Woodson (2020), who took issue with the course for promulgating a “lethal message of despair and distortion of history.” While Woodson’s contributions to the civil rights movement cannot be overstated, it’s important to recognize that CRT is not focused on individuals and their successes but on institutions. Although individuals from marginalized groups can avoid despair and express their agency within an oppressive system, they may be less able to freely and equally do so than others. Accomplishments such as falling poverty rates among Black Americans, which Woodson cites in his article, should absolutely be celebrated, but we should also ask how the poverty rates differ between Black and white Americans and what institutional factors make it more difficult for Black Americans to accumulate wealth. It is through examining institutional policies and their effects, which CRT encourages, that productive conversations about race can occur.​
...​
While critics complain that CRT imposes guilt on white students and reduces their self-esteem, CRT addresses systems and structures, not individual people’s guilt. Students sitting inside classrooms today were not alive when the major institutions that shape their lives were created, and no student who identifies as white should feel guilty that those institutions exist; however, they should be empowered to understand how and why ethnic Europeans combined together to be identified as a single “race.” Rather than reducing self-esteem, I would argue that such an understanding helps students build their identity.

When we teach history there is a POV attached. What life was like in the colonies, in the antebellum, in WWII. It all has a POV attached. That POV traditionally has been universally White and traditionally people with certain means. It isn't a universal perspective of what being an American is, it has been a somewhat glorified perspective of what being a White property-owning male is. That has always been a minority of America. Let's for a moment that CRT is wrong, how do we present the perspective of ordinary Blacks, Native Americans, women?

Or better, should we present a POV of these people? I sometimes get the impression some think we only should present the POV of the elite.

Going only on your last two paragraphs, one would assume that you have watched little TV, watched few movies, and had no children in a public school system in the last 30 years.
 
Lincoln was wrongly optimistic when he hoped the Civil War was the penance for American slavery.
That war ended slavery, and there was a thought it would end racism. It did not.

The NY draft riots occurred because Irish were worried Blacks would move north and pass them on the socioeconomic ladder. Obviously it did not happen. But that was an admission such a power structure existed and continued to exist until at least the Civil Rights Act. We can honestly debate after the CRA, but until then clearly America had a structure that did not make penance complete.
 
if you think agreeing with one thing a person says requires an approval of all things they say you are a shallow, un-nuanced and weak thinker. I find things I agree with and things I disagree with in everyone, including those whom I love dearly. Agreement is not as important as thinking about what is said.

It seems rather simple........teach what are known to be facts, debate theories....in that order. If educators honestly commit to that pursuit, we'll be ok.
 
Going only on your last two paragraphs, one would assume that you have watched little TV, watched few movies, and had no children in a public school system in the last 30 years.
You think we have a completely fair and balanced recording of American history? I suspect Washington and Jefferson are still mentioned more through 12 years of school than all native Americans combined.
 
  • Like
Reactions: anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Read the handout in the article and tell me what is wrong with that handout? Seriously, there is a small image of it you can click on to get to full size. For example, it asks "Why is Sam's skin brown" and gives some answers that I do not see at all problematic.

This one asks people to review privilege. Does privilege exist? Reading it, I was reminded of an FX show on race called "Black. White.". They took a Black family and a White family and with professional makeup, changed their races. Here is a bit from a Boston Globe segment on the show:

One of the best moments comes when Brian talks about buying shoes as a white man. For the first time in his life, the salesperson helped him fit the shoe onto his foot, rather than just handing him the shoe to put on himself. It's the kind of small, but critical, observation that distinguishes ''Black. White." from more pat undercover shows. A similar example finds Brian and Bruno, both as black men, entering a clothing store, where Brian thinks the salesman is attentive because he's suspicious while Bruno thinks the salesman is just trying to help. http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2006/03/08/black_white_is_more_than_a_reality_gimmick/
The third one is certainly a problem. No defense there, it is a problem.

you can Google yourself as you won't trust what I find, but seems Blacks notice when they go into stores they are watched, and not helped (mirroring my quote of the tv show earlier). It is simple privilege to be able to enter a store without feeling like a criminal. I wish Bing would respond, I would love to know if he's experienced this issue. But if it is happening, should Whites be told of it?

I have NO doubt that there are zealots who carry this too far. No doubt at all. IF I were Black, and IF I were continually followed around as a criminal in waiting, I'd probably get damn tired of it. When we talk about White privilege, that is an example. And most Whites probably have no idea it is happening and how it is a privilege. I'm not saying we should vilify the Whites for receiving this privilege, but I don't see anything wrong with making people aware it is real and happening. As are other such privileges.

We seem to have two options, pretend White privilege does not exist at all, or illustrate it for all to see. I am agreeing that calling people receiving White privilege racist for receiving it isn't fair. At the same point, the guy at the shoe store who offers to help a White to try on shoes while just tossing shoes to a Black for self-service is a problem and we need to realize that.

People will base their beliefs and behavior not only on what they are taught in their family and school, but also what they observe and experience. Young AA males with good character pay a price for mayhem brought about by young AA males with bad behavior. Thus the old Jesse Jackson quote about being more concerning when passing a group of black youth v. a group of white youth. Bitching about it does not change the perception. Less violent and other anti-social behavior would change the perception.
 
You think we have a completely fair and balanced recording of American history? I suspect Washington and Jefferson are still mentioned more through 12 years of school than all native Americans combined.
Could you name a Native American as consequential to American History as either of those two? Hell could you name 20?

You couldn’t.

Counter narratives are useful but it’s still more important to learn about GW and TJ than Sitting Bull.

Would you at least grant that proportionally GW and TJ deserve to be studied more?
 
Would you at least grant that proportionally GW and TJ deserve to be studied more?
Only if one thinks the most important thing about America is the colonies' separation from Britain and the formation of our government. We basically don't know what we don't know about the people who inhabited this land before the Europeans arrived.
 
Only if one thinks the most important thing about America is the colonies' separation from Britain and the formation of our government. We basically don't know what we don't know about the people who inhabited this land before the Europeans arrived.
We do know it wasn’t America then though. So prolonged study of such wouldn’t make much sense when teaching “American” history.
 
yeah and i've said this before. maybe money is the issue. maybe reparations or UBI is the answer. it reduces gov and decades of failed programs that I GUARANTEE we will be revisiting under Biden's trillions in funding and in theory provides guaranteed income that should shore up (to some extent) shitty credit etc. allowing for more ownership opportunities and on and on. maybe that at least puts everyone on first base

I'm more thinking of the likes of providing providing free college for 30 years.

There are many theories why there are big gaps. Almost universally people like to point to education as the solution without recognizing that the expense is a massive road block which has led to generation after generation having to take different paths.

When you don't believe school is an option, how seriously are you going to take schooling?

Especially when you can make major money doing something like dealing so it's presented as an available career choice.

The other issue I hear about is the monopoly effect. Meaning sure, things are more equal now but what are the success rates of joining a monopoly game two hours after it started when most things have already been purchased (the whole family wealth question)?

Therefore do something radical to give a generation a real advantage. Make college free for 30 years for African Americans and see how that influences the wealth gap.
 
I'm more thinking of the likes of providing providing free college for 30 years.

There are many theories why there are big gaps. Almost universally people like to point to education as the solution without recognizing that the expense is a massive road block which has led to generation after generation having to take different paths.

When you don't believe school is an option, how seriously are you going to take schooling?

Especially when you can make major money doing something like dealing so it's presented as an available career choice.

The other issue I hear about is the monopoly effect. Meaning sure, things are more equal now but what are the success rates of joining a monopoly game two hours after it started when most things have already been purchased (the whole family wealth question)?

Therefore do something radical to give a generation a real advantage. Make college free for 30 years for African Americans and see how that influences the wealth gap.
I like that in theory but too many kids are lost long before college; hell even high school. Moms need help and imo that in turn will help their kids
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvin the Martian
CRT from my perspective would be more for my benefit as a white dude.

I have my doubts that the black community needs to be educated on systemic racism as whites do.

I'd gladly take it also because I find it fascinating all of the little stuff that I take for granted is actually a really big deal for others.

For example, hair.

John Oliver just did a long segment on black hair and I was like, well this is going to be boring....but it was eye opening.

He discussed how black hair has been seen as nappy, thuggish, lazy and the pressured solution was to straighten it so it looked more white friendly.

Further yet salons don't teach how to cut and treat black hair.

Don't tell me you have forgotten the first response to Bracey Wright's cornrolls or hell, even Lander's hair is the subject of debate.

Anyway, something as silly as hair has a history in this country that I want to be aware of.

So I dug the show cuz I learned something.

Anyway, that's why I believe CRT is for white people so this whole 'it's going to deepen the racial divide' doesn't connect with me at a huge level as a massive consequence.
 
This is "reparations" I can get behind.

This way we're not just giving out money and we're offering a real opportunity and a challenge to the community to take advantage of it and experience the value of a college education can give you in opportunity.

After 30 years hope that the cycle starts repeating and families lift themselves out.

Mainly it gives kids a real reason to stay in school and try to get into the best colleges since it will be covered...but the work is up to the kid and it's only for a generation and a half so.
 
So what do you want to call "it?"
Pre-Columbian is the most common reference. Pre-Columbian America’s history courses are taught all over the place. Worthy field of study for sure, I’d be interested to take a class myself.

Marv was bemoaning the fact that Washington and Jefferson are focused on more heavily in most U.S. history courses than Native American leaders when the fact is they should be.

As it stands, there is surprisingly vast amount of history one can study. But if you’re teaching history to U.S. students. I don’t think prioritizing U.S. history, and yes, Jefferson and Washington is a bad thing at all.
 
Could you name a Native American as consequential to American History as either of those two? Hell could you name 20?

You couldn’t.

Counter narratives are useful but it’s still more important to learn about GW and TJ than Sitting Bull.

Would you at least grant that proportionally GW and TJ deserve to be studied more?
Squanto, Pocahantas, any of the NA who kept the settlers at the initial Thanksgiving from starving? Not to mention those who assisted the French and Spanish to survive in various areas that eventually became parts of the Louisiana Purchase and Mexican Annexation...
 
This way we're not just giving out money and we're offering a real opportunity and a challenge to the community to take advantage of it and experience the value of a college education can give you in opportunity.

After 30 years hope that the cycle starts repeating and families lift themselves out.

Mainly it gives kids a real reason to stay in school and try to get into the best colleges since it will be covered...but the work is up to the kid and it's only for a generation and a half so.
It does nothing to address the problems that prevent kids from staying in school. Without addressing the conditions precedent it’s a meaningless carrot. And honestly tommy dirt poor blacks in the hood who do well in school already have opps for free college
 
Squanto, Pocahantas, any of the NA who kept the settlers at the initial Thanksgiving from starving? Not to mention those who assisted the French and Spanish to survive in various areas that eventually became parts of the Louisiana Purchase and Mexican Annexation...
Worthy of study for sure. Not more than GW or TJ however.
 
I'm more thinking of the likes of providing providing free college for 30 years.

There are many theories why there are big gaps. Almost universally people like to point to education as the solution without recognizing that the expense is a massive road block which has led to generation after generation having to take different paths.

When you don't believe school is an option, how seriously are you going to take schooling?

Especially when you can make major money doing something like dealing so it's presented as an available career choice.

The other issue I hear about is the monopoly effect. Meaning sure, things are more equal now but what are the success rates of joining a monopoly game two hours after it started when most things have already been purchased (the whole family wealth question)?

Therefore do something radical to give a generation a real advantage. Make college free for 30 years for African Americans and see how that influences the wealth gap.
Yeah, but ...

Look at the results of free public education in the AA community so far

free education

Free meals

and AA achievement trails

“because the testing is biased”

not because of the home environment and lack of engaged parenting

my family has been in education since Brown v. Board of Education - free school is not enough
 
Going only on your last two paragraphs, one would assume that you have watched little TV, watched few movies, and had no children in a public school system in the last 30 years.
Well, we could define CRT the way Prof Imani (who has actually taught it) does very articulately here...


It seems rather simple........teach what are known to be facts, debate theories....in that order. If educators honestly commit to that pursuit, we'll be ok.
 
You think we have a completely fair and balanced recording of American history? I suspect Washington and Jefferson are still mentioned more through 12 years of school than all native Americans combined.
I don’t know what you think this means, but it doesn’t mean anything to me. I don’t know of any school that regularly teaches American continental history. And why would they?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spartans9312
I like that in theory but too many kids are lost long before college; hell even high school. Moms need help and imo that in turn will help their kids
. . . And do you provide free college to LeBron James's kids and not some white kid out of Appalachia whose family is so far below the poverty line they can't see it? Don't you open this up and don't you means test it?

Wasn't it Chief Justice Roberts who said something to the effect that the way to fight discrimination is not with more discrimination? The whole CRT/Antiracism carpet-bombing won't produce anything but more division, enmity and discrimination.
 
Only if one thinks the most important thing about America is the colonies' separation from Britain and the formation of our government. We basically don't know what we don't know about the people who inhabited this land before the Europeans arrived.
Because it wasn’t America? It was a collection of tribes. What’s your point?

i don’t mean that to be snarky, I mean that to show that is a tangent that is completely meaningless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schnitzelbonkers
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT