Daily Show on Critical Race Theory

[CO. Hoosier]

Combine this discussion with the one on the Armenian Genocide where the argument was made that recognizing truth isn't important and I see a pattern. People aren't interested in anything true, just what makes them feel good about themselves.

The Germans committed horrible atrocities in WWII and the Japanese were worse. The Japanese even singled out Americans. In both cases we have assigned those atrocities to history. We now have cordial relations and we don’t think of horrible torture and death every time we see a V W or a Toyota. After the Civil War, the U S provided amnesty and pardons in an effort to re-unite us. Nowadays, we again speak in terms of treason, slavery, and original sin. Why do we do this to ourselves? None of that is necessary to move forward. But all of it is necessary if the political interests want to re-ignite divisions for political gain. “Jim Crow on Steroids” is not a good message.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

The Germans committed horrible atrocities in WWII and the Japanese were worse. The Japanese even singled out Americans. In both cases we have assigned those atrocities to history. We now have cordial relations and we don’t think of horrible torture and death every time we see a V W or a Toyota. After the Civil War, the U S provided amnesty and pardons in an effort to re-unite us. Nowadays, we again speak in terms of treason, slavery, and original sin. Why do we do this to ourselves? None of that is necessary to move forward. But all of it is necessary if the political interests want to re-ignite divisions for political gain. “Jim Crow on Steroids” is not a good message.

Okay, let me try a response...
I think your point about the V/Toyota is valid, but responses may be muted because it happened over there, as opposed to right here. It's easier to place all our hatred onto Hitler, for example, than it is to centralize our disgust with one person over slavery/Jim Crow. If we could, I think we would transfer much of that hatred onto one person, like we do with Adolf. As a nation, we have been able to divorce Hitler from Germany. There is no such equivalent for the slave trade, plantations, Jim Crow, etc, so we are sort of stuck with unresolved emotions for the whole mess, which haven't been constructively addressed by either side.
Does any of that make sense?

Do you think there is a middle ground between ignoring it totally and constantly picking at the scabs? Are we capable of threading that needle? Do ANY of the CRT curriculums do so? Tommy seems to think so. My point has always been that CRT may not be as prevalent as some would like to have others believe. It's reached bogeyman status, which makes it hard to discuss. Until we can quantify and qualify it, at least to some extent, it's pointless to discuss it. You think CRT is a monolithic belief that is the opposite of what MLK talked about. Marvin and Tommy see it as a way to address a national tragedy that some would just as soon sweep under the rug. Now that we are at the point in our history when we are at least able to admit, without the fear of. being lynched, that black people deserve an equal place at the table, it's essential that we get this right. I think I would rather err on the side of Tommy.
IMHO.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Okay, let me try a response...
I think your point about the V/Toyota is valid, but responses may be muted because it happened over there, as opposed to right here. It's easier to place all our hatred onto Hitler, for example, than it is to centralize our disgust with one person over slavery/Jim Crow. If we could, I think we would transfer much of that hatred onto one person, like we do with Adolf. As a nation, we have been able to divorce Hitler from Germany. There is no such equivalent for the slave trade, plantations, Jim Crow, etc, so we are sort of stuck with unresolved emotions for the whole mess, which haven't been constructively addressed by either side.
Does any of that make sense?

Do you think there is a middle ground between ignoring it totally and constantly picking at the scabs? Are we capable of threading that needle? Do ANY of the CRT curriculums do so? Tommy seems to think so. My point has always been that CRT may not be as prevalent as some would like to have others believe. It's reached bogeyman status, which makes it hard to discuss. Until we can quantify and qualify it, at least to some extent, it's pointless to discuss it. You think CRT is a monolithic belief that is the opposite of what MLK talked about. Marvin and Tommy see it as a way to address a national tragedy that some would just as soon sweep under the rug. Now that we are at the point in our history when we are at least able to admit, without the fear of. being lynched, that black people deserve an equal place at the table, it's essential that we get this right. I think I would rather err on the side of Tommy.
IMHO.

I think the idea that we didn't commit the atrocities is a fair point. But when you get right down to it, "we" didn't own slaves either. The slave trade is our legacy of British rule. Also, nobody now alive owned slaves and nobody alive was a slave. Yet I've heard speakers talk as if they experienced slavery. Time heals many wounds. MLK's message was more about moving on from history and focusing on the issues of the present. CRT is more about using the past as a filter to see the present. I think that is the misuse of history and is a reason why thousand-year-old events continue to influence conflicts in some parts of the world. That is primitive thinking and a primitive use of history. It is what we are doing today to ourselves. What is the point?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I generally agree with your commentary on this topic.... but I have no clue the prevalence of this type of teaching that's occurring or purposed in public schools. My kids aren't in public schools, so I'm likely disjointed from it.

I was a public school student of the 80s/90s.... and there was no whitewashing of US history in my schooling. We all knew about the 1860s (and everything 100 years before and after) and what it was about, even in bumfuk Indiana

Keep in mind, this imprecise all-pervasive CRT he is worried about exists...among conservatives. You won't find liberals talking about CRT all the time or trying to apply it to all life situations. You only find conservatives doing that.

It's a bogeyman. As I agreed with Ranger elsewhere, CRT is serious stuff that probably doesn't belong in primary school, just as most graduate-level academic paradigms don't belong there, and if someone like COH can misrepresent it so badly, then it's certainly possible a well-meaning civics teacher would do the same.

But in real life, this thing exists on TV and Radio in the minds and mouths of conservative pundits.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It's a bogeyman. As I agreed with Ranger elsewhere, CRT is serious stuff that probably doesn't belong in primary school, just as most graduate-level academic paradigms don't belong there, and if someone like COH can misrepresent it so badly, then it's certainly possible a well-meaning civics teacher would do the same.

Just stop it.

We aren't talking about the serious graduate level stuff you goatsplained--which nobody understands anyway. I said what I am talking about, and that is in K-12 education, in business, in government, in the military and it is destructive and divisive. All of which violates Title VII and EEOC regulations prohibiting racial stereotyping and racial disparagement.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Just stop it.

We aren't talking about the serious graduate level stuff you goatsplained--which nobody understands anyway. I said what I am talking about, and that is in K-12 education, in business, in government, in the military and it is destructive and divisive. All of which violates Title VII and EEOC regulations prohibiting racial stereotyping and racial disparagement.

We know what you're talking about. It's in your head. It's been spoon fed to you by the idiot partisan hacks you've decided to trust. It's not real.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Keep in mind, this imprecise all-pervasive CRT he is worried about exists...among conservatives.

But in real life, this thing exists on TV and Radio in the minds and mouths of conservative pundits.

That’s not true, though, sir.

District Response to Chauvin Verdict - The School District of Philadelphia

April 20, 2021 Dear School District of Philadelphia Staff and Community, This past year has been one of extreme uncertainty for our staff, students, and families in the School District of Philadelphia and the nation at large. As we all deal with the trauma of the pandemic, we cannot ignore the...

www.philasd.org

What on earth possesses a school district to comment on a verdict for a case that happened hundreds of miles away? Many of the links I clicked on in there are highly symbiotic with CRT. This is a district with >50% of kids K-2 unable to read at their grade level and >60% of kids in 3rd grade unable to do so. Do you trust these teachers to “get it right?”

District Scorecard – Archive – District Performance Office

www.philasd.org

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

That’s not true, though, sir.

District Response to Chauvin Verdict - The School District of Philadelphia

April 20, 2021 Dear School District of Philadelphia Staff and Community, This past year has been one of extreme uncertainty for our staff, students, and families in the School District of Philadelphia and the nation at large. As we all deal with the trauma of the pandemic, we cannot ignore the...

www.philasd.org

What on earth possesses a school district to comment on a verdict for a case that happened hundreds of miles away? Many of the links I clicked on in there are highly symbiotic with CRT. This is a district with >50% of kids K-2 unable to read at their grade level and >60% of kids in 3rd grade unable to do so. Do you trust these teachers to “get it right?”

District Scorecard – Archive – District Performance Office

www.philasd.org

1. Again, I think you are conflating a lot of different things under the label CRT.
2. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take offense at in your link. I didn't follow every link or read everything, but I'm not bothered by teaching systemic racism is real.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

1. Again, I think you are conflating a lot of different things under the label CRT.
2. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take offense at in your link. I didn't follow every link or read everything, but I'm not bothered by teaching systemic racism is real.

I've asked a few times for you to clarify this point and what you believe are the links between CRT, antiracism, and current equity programs. I'm sorry if I missed it.

But many of your responses on this are playing semantic games and employing the No True Scotsman fallacy. Antiracism training and instruction pervades many, many school districts. (If you disagree with this empirical statement, just google "antiracism in schools"). Antiracism is a direct offshoot or subfield of CRT. Here are links to articles BY CRT/antiracism advocates (note that two are within the field of education, where you and others claim CRT has no influence) that essentially use the terms interchangeably or show a link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232852856_Critical_Race_Theory_and_Education_Racism_and_Anti-Racism_in_Educational_Theory_and_Praxis

Critical Race Theory | The Anti-Racist Educ

www.theantiracisteducator.com

What Is Critical Race Theory and Why Is Trump Afraid of It?

His attacks are attempt to reach those who repudiate the symbols and premises of white supremacy but worry that anti-racist advocacy can go “too far.”

www.thenation.com

Here's one from James Lindsay, who defines all these terms, using direct quotes from the relevant source material:

Antiracism

This entry in 'Translations from the Wokish' is an explanation of the term "Antiracism."

newdiscourses.com

That took 5 minutes of research. I'm sure there are many, many more. You can also find many links to articles from educational journals, websites, papers, etc. discussing equity, antiracism, CRT, etc.

If you think they are conflating the issue, fine. But again, I ask you, how? How is Lindsay's encyclopedia falsely characterizing these terms, for example? What are the material differences that you see between each term and can you provide some support for the hairsplitting you are performing here? I'd like to learn why you think this is no big deal and why you call people liars who think it is.

I fully admit I am charged on this issue and so apologize if this post is too confrontational or judgmental. I have kids who qualify for honors courses, but our high school is completely under the spell of this ideology and is going to eliminate them in the name of racial equity and antiracism. So we are now debating uprooting our family and moving or shelling out money we really don't have for parochial school. I'm angry, scared, and depressed about it all, to be quite frank.

I would love to be talked into how what is happening is actually a good thing for my kids, for the minority kids in our district, and the country. But I have actually read some of the CRT texts, Kendi's How to Be an Antiracist, DiAngelo's paper upon which she based her book, and I find it all to be poorly reasoned (the Posner article from 25 years ago that CoH linked yesterday is really spot on).

O.K, time to have a drink and cool off.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I've asked a few times for you to clarify this point and what you believe are the links between CRT, antiracism, and current equity programs. I'm sorry if I missed it.

But many of your responses on this are playing semantic games and employing the No True Scotsman fallacy. Antiracism training and instruction pervades many, many school districts. (If you disagree with this empirical statement, just google "antiracism in schools"). Antiracism is a direct offshoot or subfield of CRT. Here are links to articles BY CRT/antiracism advocates (note that two are within the field of education, where you and others claim CRT has no influence) that essentially use the terms interchangeably or show a link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232852856_Critical_Race_Theory_and_Education_Racism_and_Anti-Racism_in_Educational_Theory_and_Praxis

Critical Race Theory | The Anti-Racist Educ

www.theantiracisteducator.com

What Is Critical Race Theory and Why Is Trump Afraid of It?

His attacks are attempt to reach those who repudiate the symbols and premises of white supremacy but worry that anti-racist advocacy can go “too far.”

www.thenation.com

Here's one from James Lindsay, who defines all these terms, using direct quotes from the relevant source material:

Antiracism

This entry in 'Translations from the Wokish' is an explanation of the term "Antiracism."

newdiscourses.com

That took 5 minutes of research. I'm sure there are many, many more. You can also find many links to articles from educational journals, websites, papers, etc. discussing equity, antiracism, CRT, etc.

If you think they are conflating the issue, fine. But again, I ask you, how? How is Lindsay's encyclopedia falsely characterizing these terms, for example? What are the material differences that you see between each term and can you provide some support for the hairsplitting you are performing here? I'd like to learn why you think this is no big deal and why you call people liars who think it is.

I fully admit I am charged on this issue and so apologize if this post is too confrontational or judgmental. I have kids who qualify for honors courses, but our high school is completely under the spell of this ideology and is going to eliminate them in the name of racial equity and antiracism. So we are now debating uprooting our family and moving or shelling out money we really don't have for parochial school. I'm angry, scared, and depressed about it all, to be quite frank.

I would love to be talked into how what is happening is actually a good thing for my kids, for the minority kids in our district, and the country. But I have actually read some of the CRT texts, Kendi's How to Be an Antiracist, DiAngelo's paper upon which she based her book, and I find it all to be poorly reasoned (the Posner article from 25 years ago that CoH linked yesterday is really spot on).

O.K, time to have a drink and cool off.

Apologies if I've been unclear. I have endeavored to draw a clear distinction between what CRT is, and what it is not, and that includes it's potential intrusion into public education (and other arenas). I have previously said to Ranger (and others) that, if the mistaken excessive version of CRT (all whites are racists, race essentialism, etc.) that some of our conservative friends seem to think is the core of actual CRT invades our schools, I agree that is bad. If the actual core of what CRT is, according to the people who study it professionally (systemic racism exists; it does not require racist motivations on the part of individuals that are part of the system) is part of our education, I see no problem with that, because I think it's true and an important avenue of study.

I do think it needs to be done carefully, because the "good" CRT can easily be misinterpreted as the "bad" CRT. But I do think it is important not to conflate one with the other when having these discussions, because that's when we start to wave away anything CRT as bad, without taking the time to examine the details.

So my intent is not to engage in a No True Scotsman fallacy, but rather to highlight that there are different types of Scotsmen, and only some of them are going to get drunk and wreck the pub.

 

[twenty02]

I've asked a few times for you to clarify this point and what you believe are the links between CRT, antiracism, and current equity programs. I'm sorry if I missed it.

But many of your responses on this are playing semantic games and employing the No True Scotsman fallacy. Antiracism training and instruction pervades many, many school districts. (If you disagree with this empirical statement, just google "antiracism in schools"). Antiracism is a direct offshoot or subfield of CRT. Here are links to articles BY CRT/antiracism advocates (note that two are within the field of education, where you and others claim CRT has no influence) that essentially use the terms interchangeably or show a link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232852856_Critical_Race_Theory_and_Education_Racism_and_Anti-Racism_in_Educational_Theory_and_Praxis

Critical Race Theory | The Anti-Racist Educ

www.theantiracisteducator.com

What Is Critical Race Theory and Why Is Trump Afraid of It?

His attacks are attempt to reach those who repudiate the symbols and premises of white supremacy but worry that anti-racist advocacy can go “too far.”

www.thenation.com

Here's one from James Lindsay, who defines all these terms, using direct quotes from the relevant source material:

Antiracism

This entry in 'Translations from the Wokish' is an explanation of the term "Antiracism."

newdiscourses.com

That took 5 minutes of research. I'm sure there are many, many more. You can also find many links to articles from educational journals, websites, papers, etc. discussing equity, antiracism, CRT, etc.

If you think they are conflating the issue, fine. But again, I ask you, how? How is Lindsay's encyclopedia falsely characterizing these terms, for example? What are the material differences that you see between each term and can you provide some support for the hairsplitting you are performing here? I'd like to learn why you think this is no big deal and why you call people liars who think it is.

I fully admit I am charged on this issue and so apologize if this post is too confrontational or judgmental. I have kids who qualify for honors courses, but our high school is completely under the spell of this ideology and is going to eliminate them in the name of racial equity and antiracism. So we are now debating uprooting our family and moving or shelling out money we really don't have for parochial school. I'm angry, scared, and depressed about it all, to be quite frank.

I would love to be talked into how what is happening is actually a good thing for my kids, for the minority kids in our district, and the country. But I have actually read some of the CRT texts, Kendi's How to Be an Antiracist, DiAngelo's paper upon which she based her book, and I find it all to be poorly reasoned (the Posner article from 25 years ago that CoH linked yesterday is really spot on).

O.K, time to have a drink and cool off.

Your school is eliminating the Honors program to combat racism? I wouldn't be shocked, as I personally know a couple friends of friends who are public high school teachers, and they've gone off the kooky ledge over the last 5-10 years.

Covid era likely gonna do the final death blow to the traditional public school system, in many areas.

Indiana just passed a major voucher system expansion.... where families making under $145k can get 90% of tuition covered at private schools.

 

[mashnut]

Keep in mind, this imprecise all-pervasive CRT he is worried about exists...among conservatives. You won't find liberals talking about CRT all the time or trying to apply it to all life situations. You only find conservatives doing that.

It's a bogeyman. As I agreed with Ranger elsewhere, CRT is serious stuff that probably doesn't belong in primary school, just as most graduate-level academic paradigms don't belong there, and if someone like COH can misrepresent it so badly, then it's certainly possible a well-meaning civics teacher would do the same.

But in real life, this thing exists on TV and Radio in the minds and mouths of conservative pundits.

He also conveniently doesn't notice any posts referencing things other than the one line from one speech he likes from MLK. Whenever you bring up the way MLK talked about the actual process to achieve his dream in his Letter from a Birmingham Jail he ignores it. Then the next thread that comes up suddenly he's quoting MLK again.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Apologies if I've been unclear. I have endeavored to draw a clear distinction between what CRT is, and what it is not, and that includes it's potential intrusion into public education (and other arenas). I have previously said to Ranger (and others) that, if the mistaken excessive version of CRT (all whites are racists, race essentialism, etc.) that some of our conservative friends seem to think is the core of actual CRT invades our schools, I agree that is bad. If the actual core of what CRT is, according to the people who study it professionally (systemic racism exists; it does not require racist motivations on the part of individuals that are part of the system) is part of our education, I see no problem with that, because I think it's true and an important avenue of study.

I do think it needs to be done carefully, because the "good" CRT can easily be misinterpreted as the "bad" CRT. But I do think it is important not to conflate one with the other when having these discussions, because that's when we start to wave away anything CRT as bad, without taking the time to examine the details.

So my intent is not to engage in a No True Scotsman fallacy, but rather to highlight that there are different types of Scotsmen, and only some of them are going to get drunk and wreck the pub.

I guess your efforts to keep CRT centered in an academic study of a couple decades ago is admirable, but it isn’t reality. The new race orthodoxy has morphed CRT into an adaptation of class conflict to race. Whites (including white youngsters) are taught they are oppressors and blacks are taught they oppressed. That playbook goes back to the beginning of time. The great governance principles embodied in our founding documents are represented being white and as being part of a racial power struggle, not as universal statements of inalienable rights. Kendi advocates for more racism as the only means to remedy past racism. I guess for him natural rights of all humans are too white. Anti-discrimination as been the guide post for civil rights for decades. Now anti-racism is the new CRT guide post and that is a change—for the worse.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I guess your efforts to keep CRT centered in an academic study of a couple decades ago is admirable, but it isn’t reality. The new race orthodoxy has morphed CRT into an adaptation of class conflict to race. Whites (including white youngsters) are taught they are oppressors and blacks are taught they oppressed. That playbook goes back to the beginning of time. The great governance principles embodied in our founding documents are represented being white and as being part of a racial power struggle, not as universal statements of inalienable rights. Kendi advocates for more racism as the only means to remedy past racism. I guess for him natural rights of all humans are too white. Anti-discrimination as been the guide post for civil rights for decades. Now anti-racism is the new CRT guide post and that is a change—for the worse.

I am curious, is there a document used in a classroom that you can link that says all Whites are oppressors? I'm not the CRT expert you are, I am sure you have it handy.

 

[jet812]

I am curious, is there a document used in a classroom that you can link that says all Whites are oppressors? I'm not the CRT expert you are, I am sure you have it handy.

If blacks are being taught they are oppressed & kept from succeeding, I don’t think anyone will need a document to draw conclusions from. The natural human reaction will be to blame someone, & when race is being crammed in their face constantly, it’s not difficult to see who that will be.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

He also conveniently doesn't notice any posts referencing things other than the one line from one speech he likes from MLK. Whenever you bring up the way MLK talked about the actual process to achieve his dream in his Letter from a Birmingham Jail he ignores it. Then the next thread that comes up suddenly he's quoting MLK again.

if you think agreeing with one thing a person says requires an approval of all things they say you are a shallow, un-nuanced and weak thinker. I find things I agree with and things I disagree with in everyone, including those whom I love dearly. Agreement is not as important as thinking about what is said.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I'm not the CRT expert you are, I am sure you have it handy.

We can do without this kind of BS.

You won’t find anything with a Google search. You’ll need to use one of the more objective alternatives.

Edit: Read all the inks in this thread, including the source links. It’s all there for your enjoyment.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Our school district's website had a page on anti-racism. A couple of the articles they linked had some cringeworthy stuff that I think went too far (one got removed i believe after it was pointed out). Not sure if they are teaching based on their linked articles or they thought it was just a resource to use. Wouldn't be shocked if they failed to fully read the articles they linked.

I would not be shocked if there are some schools that take it too far. I see going too far in the same vein as whitewashing history IMO.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

If blacks are being taught they are oppressed & kept from succeeding, I don’t think anyone will need a document to draw conclusions from. The natural human reaction will be to blame someone, & when race is being crammed in their face constantly, it’s not difficult to see who that will be.

Assumptions much?

 

[jet812]

Assumptions much?

Deductive reasoning based on the past year. Obviously a foreign concept to you...

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Deductive reasoning based on the past year. Obviously a foreign concept to you...

Thinking for yourself is a foreign concept to you. Just keep soaking in your partisan propaganda. Don't feel pressure to spread it to others.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I am curious, is there a document used in a classroom that you can link that says all Whites are oppressors? I'm not the CRT expert you are, I am sure you have it handy.

That's all I've been asking for. All I keep getting are stone tablets brought down from the mountain.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

If blacks are being taught they are oppressed & kept from succeeding, I don’t think anyone will need a document to draw conclusions from. The natural human reaction will be to blame someone, & when race is being crammed in their face constantly, it’s not difficult to see who that will be.

So, are blacks being taught they are oppressed and kept from succeeding in schools? Is this part of the curriculum? Most curriculum guides are online.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

We can do without this kind of BS.

You won’t find anything with a Google search. You’ll need to use one of the more objective alternatives.

Edit: Read all the inks in this thread, including the source links. It’s all there for your enjoyment.

So you do not have it. I'm not talking about someone saying "Hey, CRT is evil and teaches Whites should be put against the wall". I am talking about the actual handouts students are receiving that is saying "All Whites are oppressors".

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

So you do not have it. I'm not talking about someone saying "Hey, CRT is evil and teaches Whites should be put against the wall". I am talking about the actual handouts students are receiving that is saying "All Whites are oppressors".

If it’s that black and white for you then you’re entering Trumper territory.

Elite K-8 school teaches white students they’re born racist

An elite Manhattan school is teaching white students as young as 6 that they’re born racist and should feel guilty benefiting from “white privilege,” while heaping praise and cupcakes on their blac…

nypost.com

Linked for parents and students by Philly school district:

Understanding Race and Privilege

Across the nation, children of all backgrounds are experiencing a time in which discussions about race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, and culture are at the forefront of their...

www.nasponline.org

Private School Head Admits ‘Anti-racist’ Curriculum Is ‘Demonizing White People for Being Born’ | National Review

A new audio recording captures the head of the Grace Church School agreeing with a teacher he later fired for opposing critical race theory.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Elite K-8 school teaches white students they’re born racist

An elite Manhattan school is teaching white students as young as 6 that they’re born racist and should feel guilty benefiting from “white privilege,” while heaping praise and cupcakes on their blac…

nypost.com

Read the handout in the article and tell me what is wrong with that handout? Seriously, there is a small image of it you can click on to get to full size. For example, it asks "Why is Sam's skin brown" and gives some answers that I do not see at all problematic.

Linked for parents and students by Philly school district:

Understanding Race and Privilege

Across the nation, children of all backgrounds are experiencing a time in which discussions about race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, and culture are at the forefront of their...

www.nasponline.org

This one asks people to review privilege. Does privilege exist? Reading it, I was reminded of an FX show on race called "Black. White.". They took a Black family and a White family and with professional makeup, changed their races. Here is a bit from a Boston Globe segment on the show:

One of the best moments comes when Brian talks about buying shoes as a white man. For the first time in his life, the salesperson helped him fit the shoe onto his foot, rather than just handing him the shoe to put on himself. It's the kind of small, but critical, observation that distinguishes ''Black. White." from more pat undercover shows. A similar example finds Brian and Bruno, both as black men, entering a clothing store, where Brian thinks the salesman is attentive because he's suspicious while Bruno thinks the salesman is just trying to help. http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2006/03/08/black_white_is_more_than_a_reality_gimmick/​

​

The third one is certainly a problem. No defense there, it is a problem.

you can Google yourself as you won't trust what I find, but seems Blacks notice when they go into stores they are watched, and not helped (mirroring my quote of the tv show earlier). It is simple privilege to be able to enter a store without feeling like a criminal. I wish Bing would respond, I would love to know if he's experienced this issue. But if it is happening, should Whites be told of it?

I have NO doubt that there are zealots who carry this too far. No doubt at all. IF I were Black, and IF I were continually followed around as a criminal in waiting, I'd probably get damn tired of it. When we talk about White privilege, that is an example. And most Whites probably have no idea it is happening and how it is a privilege. I'm not saying we should vilify the Whites for receiving this privilege, but I don't see anything wrong with making people aware it is real and happening. As are other such privileges.

We seem to have two options, pretend White privilege does not exist at all, or illustrate it for all to see. I am agreeing that calling people receiving White privilege racist for receiving it isn't fair. At the same point, the guy at the shoe store who offers to help a White to try on shoes while just tossing shoes to a Black for self-service is a problem and we need to realize that.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Read the handout in the article and tell me what is wrong with that handout? Seriously, there is a small image of it you can click on to get to full size. For example, it asks "Why is Sam's skin brown" and gives some answers that I do not see at all problematic.

This one asks people to review privilege. Does privilege exist? Reading it, I was reminded of an FX show on race called "Black. White.". They took a Black family and a White family and with professional makeup, changed their races. Here is a bit from a Boston Globe segment on the show:

One of the best moments comes when Brian talks about buying shoes as a white man. For the first time in his life, the salesperson helped him fit the shoe onto his foot, rather than just handing him the shoe to put on himself. It's the kind of small, but critical, observation that distinguishes ''Black. White." from more pat undercover shows. A similar example finds Brian and Bruno, both as black men, entering a clothing store, where Brian thinks the salesman is attentive because he's suspicious while Bruno thinks the salesman is just trying to help. http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2006/03/08/black_white_is_more_than_a_reality_gimmick/​

​

The third one is certainly a problem. No defense there, it is a problem.

you can Google yourself as you won't trust what I find, but seems Blacks notice when they go into stores they are watched, and not helped (mirroring my quote of the tv show earlier). It is simple privilege to be able to enter a store without feeling like a criminal. I wish Bing would respond, I would love to know if he's experienced this issue. But if it is happening, should Whites be told of it?

I have NO doubt that there are zealots who carry this too far. No doubt at all. IF I were Black, and IF I were continually followed around as a criminal in waiting, I'd probably get damn tired of it. When we talk about White privilege, that is an example. And most Whites probably have no idea it is happening and how it is a privilege. I'm not saying we should vilify the Whites for receiving this privilege, but I don't see anything wrong with making people aware it is real and happening. As are other such privileges.

We seem to have two options, pretend White privilege does not exist at all, or illustrate it for all to see. I am agreeing that calling people receiving White privilege racist for receiving it isn't fair. At the same point, the guy at the shoe store who offers to help a White to try on shoes while just tossing shoes to a Black for self-service is a problem and we need to realize that.

Yikes marv. You have become very black and white in your posts on this - no pun intended.

Crime rates; classism; schools stepping on what are parental roles and overreaching.... I send my kids to learn math not some bastardized derivation of crt from a 24 yr old with a Bach degree from a directional school. Stick to the basics and let parents do the rest

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Read the handout in the article and tell me what is wrong with that handout? Seriously, there is a small image of it you can click on to get to full size. For example, it asks "Why is Sam's skin brown" and gives some answers that I do not see at all problematic.

This one asks people to review privilege. Does privilege exist? Reading it, I was reminded of an FX show on race called "Black. White.". They took a Black family and a White family and with professional makeup, changed their races. Here is a bit from a Boston Globe segment on the show:

One of the best moments comes when Brian talks about buying shoes as a white man. For the first time in his life, the salesperson helped him fit the shoe onto his foot, rather than just handing him the shoe to put on himself. It's the kind of small, but critical, observation that distinguishes ''Black. White." from more pat undercover shows. A similar example finds Brian and Bruno, both as black men, entering a clothing store, where Brian thinks the salesman is attentive because he's suspicious while Bruno thinks the salesman is just trying to help. http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2006/03/08/black_white_is_more_than_a_reality_gimmick/​

​

The third one is certainly a problem. No defense there, it is a problem.

you can Google yourself as you won't trust what I find, but seems Blacks notice when they go into stores they are watched, and not helped (mirroring my quote of the tv show earlier). It is simple privilege to be able to enter a store without feeling like a criminal. I wish Bing would respond, I would love to know if he's experienced this issue. But if it is happening, should Whites be told of it?

I have NO doubt that there are zealots who carry this too far. No doubt at all. IF I were Black, and IF I were continually followed around as a criminal in waiting, I'd probably get damn tired of it. When we talk about White privilege, that is an example. And most Whites probably have no idea it is happening and how it is a privilege. I'm not saying we should vilify the Whites for receiving this privilege, but I don't see anything wrong with making people aware it is real and happening. As are other such privileges.

We seem to have two options, pretend White privilege does not exist at all, or illustrate it for all to see. I am agreeing that calling people receiving White privilege racist for receiving it isn't fair. At the same point, the guy at the shoe store who offers to help a White to try on shoes while just tossing shoes to a Black for self-service is a problem and we need to realize that.

There’s nothing wrong with the handout you described but you conveniently omitted discussion on the slide where it basically guides to inform a bunch of kids that they are privileged and another are oppressed. How do you intend a youngster to deal with that information - especially via a program driven by a radical who uses phrases like “tools of whiteness”?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Yikes marv. You have become very black and white in your posts - no pun intended.

Crime rates; classism; schools stepping on what are parental roles and overreaching.... I send my kids to learn math not some bastardized derivation of crt from a 24 yr old with a Bach degree from a directional school. Stick to the basics and let parents do the rest

I am not sure I think most parents will teach any form of "mistakes have been made". Some, a distinct minority, will teach the opposite. I suspect most White parents do not sit down with their children and discuss race at all, and if they do only very superficially. There are surveys showing we don't. https://theconversation.com/most-white-parents-dont-talk-about-racism-with-their-kids-140894 and https://hechingerreport.org/too-few-parents-talk-to-their-kids-about-race-and-identity-report-finds/

I think it is like sex ed, something parents largely punted. I wonder how many White parents have sat down with White children and pointed out that White privilege does exist (even in small forms)? I honestly do not recall ever having that discussion with my children. I hope I stressed we believe all are equal, but doesn't that create the utopian idea that everyone believes that? Does it help to think we have reached MLK's dream when we simply aren't there?

I guess I should ask this question, who here believes we have reached the point that the races (and genders" are completely equal in all aspects of society?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Is this the slide:

I honestly am not sure I see "raise awareness of Whiteness and privilege" as a big problem.

One point on the left, "have an opportunity to be in a majority setting" is interesting. When one of our daughters went through confirmation she had to attend the services of other faiths. It is interesting as a White attending service at a mostly Black church or a Tibetan service where suddenly being White is a minority.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I am not sure I think most parents will teach any form of "mistakes have been made". Some, a distinct minority, will teach the opposite. I suspect most White parents do not sit down with their children and discuss race at all, and if they do only very superficially. There are surveys showing we don't. https://theconversation.com/most-white-parents-dont-talk-about-racism-with-their-kids-140894 and https://hechingerreport.org/too-few-parents-talk-to-their-kids-about-race-and-identity-report-finds/

I think it is like sex ed, something parents largely punted. I wonder how many White parents have sat down with White children and pointed out that White privilege does exist (even in small forms)? I honestly do not recall ever having that discussion with my children. I hope I stressed we believe all are equal, but doesn't that create the utopian idea that everyone believes that? Does it help to think we have reached MLK's dream when we simply aren't there?

I guess I should ask this question, who here believes we have reached the point that the races (and genders" are completely equal in all aspects of society?

Your question is far too simplified. For obvious reasons.

but in good faith I’ll attempt an answer on race, because I believe the genders (I’m talking about two of them) are completely equal.

No, I don’t believe the races have achieved “equality” under your definition which I think is skewed far more towards equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. I do think we’re nearing equality of opportunity, except some races are consistently told they aren’t equal and that the system is rigged against them and thus the opportunity really isn’t there.

There are racists out there, that is indisputable. There are parents out there, like me, that do talk about race with their young children. By and large, it is of no consequence to me if the cottage industry of Racism, inc. wants to continue to exist, suck up school budgets in urban areas that oft already have obscene budgets and poor results, and continue to brainwash other people into thinking their only reason for success or failure is because of immeasurable privilege. But, I will not tolerate a radical coming in to brainwash my kids.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Is this the slide:

I honestly am not sure I see "raise awareness of Whiteness and privilege" as a big problem.

preposterous. Challenge assumptions of what it means to be American? Understand European ancestry and its tie to privilege?

it’s radical anti-American propaganda that seeks to invert the entire economic model of this country.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Your question is far too simplified. For obvious reasons.

but in good faith I’ll attempt an answer on race, because I believe the genders (I’m talking about two of them) are completely equal.

No, I don’t believe the races have achieved “equality” under your definition which I think is skewed far more towards equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. I do think we’re nearing equality of opportunity, except some races are consistently told they aren’t equal and that the system is rigged against them and thus the opportunity really isn’t there.

There are racists out there, that is indisputable. There are parents out there, like me, that do talk about race with their young children. By and large, it is of no consequence to me if the cottage industry of Racism, inc. wants to continue to exist, suck up school budgets in urban areas that oft already have obscene budgets and poor results, and continue to brainwash other people into thinking their only reason for success or failure is because of immeasurable privilege. But, I will not tolerate a radical coming in to brainwash my kids.

I just heard a comment from the president of one of the teachers unions defending the teaching of CRT in public schools. She obviously equated CRT with the 1619 Project as she said in effect “We should teach history and we should definitely teach children that slaves were first brought to the United States in 1619”. The FNC host did not challenge her. When asked about teaching 1776, she said we should teach that too, but we need to teach that slavery began in the United States in 1619.

Crap like this is why public education sucks.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I just heard a comment from the president of one of the teachers unions defending the teaching of CRT in public schools. She obviously equated CRT with the 1619 Project as she said in effect “We should teach history and we should definitely teach children that slaves were first brought to the United States in 1619”. The FNC host did not challenge her. When asked about teaching 1776, she said we should teach that too, but we need to teach that slavery began in the United States in 1619.

Crap like this is why public education sucks.

yes and you are old. it's frightening for those of us still going through it. private school has gotten crazy expensive. $250k in k-12 education to get one kid off to mizzou isn't something any of us relish

 

[hatchetdad]

This is one of the hot button issues the Pubs are desperately trying to gain traction with.
They want to pretend that it resonates outside the "base" (it doesn't) and that it isn't racist. We all know there are no racists in the GOP, but that claim keeps getting undermined by some of the people so desperate to attack CRT and use it as a cultural wedge issue... For example...

Rep Ray Garafalo (GOP-LA) introduced a bill in the State Legislature to, in effect, ban the teaching of CRT in LA schools. He made the regrettable slip of the tongue where he claimed that students needed to be taught "the good,bad and ugly" of slavery and in a clip that went viral was immediately confronted by fellow GOP Rep Stephanie Hilferty who blurted out "there is no good to slavery...

View embedded media

Now if you watch the entire clip of the actual exchange you realize how tortured and awkward a discourse it is, with Garafalo being forced to admit that just like the Holocaust we know slavery was evil, despite the fact that there are no living witnesses to rely on with first-hand knowledge. People who commented on the video felt it was actually a Freudian slip by Garafalo, but I'll reserve judgement on whether or not he is racist because really don't know...

He was forced to withdraw his bill, but the aftermath revealed a few more splits within the GOP. The story came to my attention when I read about a prominent women named Martha Huckaby, who is President of the Republican Women's Club of New Orleans. Huckaby posted a FB attack on Hilferty and actually doubled down on the idea that we don't KNOW slavery was "bad"...

“What is Stephanie Hilferty doing here? Why is she trying to trap a Republican and twist his words?” Huckabay wrote on Facebook. “How does she 100% know there is ‘no good to slavery’ if none of us were around during slavery?”

La. GOP leader: How do you know slavery was bad if no one around to see it?

Women’s Republican Club of New Orleans head Martha Huckabay has taken a pretty awful take on U.S. history. Martha Huckabay, the president of the Women’s Republican Club of New Orleans, came up with an interesting take on U.S. history this weekend. Huckabay shared a clip of a segment in which a...

www.yahoo.com

She then went a step further...

“Weren’t some slaves treated really well?” she noted. “I know in the Bible they were.”

More details here...

View embedded media

View embedded media

No offense to Martha, but she has exposed herself here, and basically is assuming the slavery counterpart of a Holocaust denier. Some of the supporting comments coming out of the woodwork illustrate the PR problem the Pubs have outside of the base in attacking CRT and trying to claim the attacks aren't steeped in racism.

And Garafalo is not just some run of the mill State Legislator proposing wacky Legislation. He is actually (for the time being) the head of the state's education committee...

WOW!

 

[outside shooter]

In school I was never taught much at all about the legacy of the oppression of blacks, other than a few minutes of "slavery was bad" and "reconstruction didn't work out very smoothly"

That was a failing of public school education in rural southern Indiana, and I hope that it is corrected.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Your question is far too simplified. For obvious reasons.

but in good faith I’ll attempt an answer on race, because I believe the genders (I’m talking about two of them) are completely equal.

No, I don’t believe the races have achieved “equality” under your definition which I think is skewed far more towards equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. I do think we’re nearing equality of opportunity, except some races are consistently told they aren’t equal and that the system is rigged against them and thus the opportunity really isn’t there.

There are racists out there, that is indisputable. There are parents out there, like me, that do talk about race with their young children. By and large, it is of no consequence to me if the cottage industry of Racism, inc. wants to continue to exist, suck up school budgets in urban areas that oft already have obscene budgets and poor results, and continue to brainwash other people into thinking their only reason for success or failure is because of immeasurable privilege. But, I will not tolerate a radical coming in to brainwash my kids.

I think there is a missing question, where does the failure to have equality of results stem? It can't be CRT, the inequality of results existed long before anyone seriously considered CRT. I often hear single parents is a cause. OK, why does single parent 1) seem to matter more to Blacks on opportunity and 2) why do Blacks have more single parents? For example:

• The median two-parent black family had $16,000 in wealth.
• The median two-parent Latino family had $18,800 in wealth.
• The median single-parent white family had $35,800 in wealth (two-parent white families had $161,300).

(source https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-have-half-the-wealth-of-white-single-parents)

White single-parent families tend to have more wealth than Black or Latino two-parent families. Of course that assumes the data is good. But if it is true, what does that say about the opportunity-result gap?

I don't agree with anyone saying that being White guarantees success or being Black guarantees hardship. But a privilege does exist. I saw a friend put up a quote attributed to Barry Switzer, "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple". While I think for a very few that is true (a former president comes to mind) but for most Americans that is a gross exaggeration. I would suggest this, "some people step up to bat with an 0-1 count on them".

What does it mean to be of European descent in America? I'm not sure that isn't a darn good question to discuss. I think too often we think that to be American is to be an American of European descent. When asked to name an event from US history, I doubt many Whites name an event with mostly Blacks. When asked to name a great American, I doubt many Whites name a Black (or a woman). When asked to picture life on the frontier, or in Colonial America, I doubt Blacks are in the picture at all. We tend to naturally view America through a European descent filter. Part of that isn't the fault of people today. We largely kept Blacks out of the combat units of WWII so there isn't much there to teach (same for all the wars pre-Korea). We didn't elect Blacks in any great numbers until recently. Until Herman Welles Blacks weren't allowed to live on campus at an IU. Banneker Center in Bloomington was the school for Blacks so for a long time we didn't share the same schooling. But Blacks (and Latinos and Native Americans) had their own experiences that are as real and as American as that my ancestors had. Realizing that America has a huge range of people and experiences and we can get too easily caught up in the names of just Whites (Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Lincoln, Lee, Grant, Pershing, MacArthur, Patton, Ike, OW Holmes, Kennesaw Landis, JFK, etc) as seeing White America as America and not just one slice of America. I think that's the term I like, being White in America is just a slice of America and we need to realize it isn't America, just a slice.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

yes and you are old. it's frightening for those of us still going through it. private school has gotten crazy expensive. $250k in k-12 education to get one kid off to mizzou isn't something any of us relish

Not so old to believe the United Stares even existed in 1619. How can she teach about 1776 if she thinks slaves were brought to the United States in 1619. And if she gets a pass on that then we have to say slavery existed in United States before the first European settled here. After all, we should teach the truth, correct? The Spanish had slaves in the SW United States before 1619, then they outlawed making slaves out of natives. The 1619 project is not about teaching about slavery. It’s only purpose is to deepen the black-white divide.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Not so old to believe the United Stares even existed in 1619. How can she teach about 1776 if she thinks slaves were brought to the United States in 1619. And if she gets a pass on that then we have to say slavery existed in United States before the first European settled here. After all, we should teach the truth, correct? The Spanish had slaves in the SW United States before 1619, then they outlawed making slaves out of natives. The 1619 project is not about teaching about slavery. It’s only purpose is to deepen the black-white divide.

that stuff is above my pay grade as it implicates all sorts of psychology as well. my daughter's best friend is a little black girl. they're attached at the hip. the kid basically lives at my house. i cringe at the thought of white privilege entering the curriculum (and filtered through a 24 yr old teacher with a bachelor's degree from a directional school) and invoking this weird sort of dynamic between them when none of that presently exists between them. i don't know - again all that's above my pay grade

 

[CO. Hoosier]

that stuff is above my pay grade as it implicates all sorts of psychology as well. my daughter's best friend is a little black girl. they're attached at the hip. the kid basically lives at my house. i cringe at the thought of white privilege entering the curriculum (and filtered through a 24 yr old teacher with a bachelor's degree from a directional school) and invoking this weird sort of dynamic between them when none of that presently exists between them. i don't know - again all that's above my pay grade

Likewise with my granddaughter. I got to know one of her AA friends fairly well. Sweet girl who probably will have no chance in life. Lives with her single mom and 2 older half brothers Who are in to drugs. She had an offer from one of the best private high schools in Denver to go there and play LaCrosse. Her mother wouldn’t allow it because of the dominate white enrollment thinking her daughter would be intimidated. We can’t do better with that kind of thinking.