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Daily Show on Critical Race Theory

Someone posted a link about a GOP meeting where the good side of slavery wasn't discussed. I posted somewhere an article about a Tennessee state rep saying that the 3/5s clause was built in as an anti-slavery amendment. Some people aren't getting the proper teaching of history.
Call this an aside or a digression or whatever...

The LA politician used the familiar phrase "the good, the bad, and the ugly" to describe how slavery should be discussed. He was immediately pounced on for using the word "good" while describing how slavery should be discussed. Perhaps he was inartful, but the blowback he got was ridiculous.

The TN legislator was similarly pilloried for voicing a Lost Cause take on the 3/5 clause that many of a certain age and location would find familiar. It's hard to break away from the wrongheaded notions that were drilled into you as a kid. While historically wrong, I don't think he was being intentionally disingenuous.
 
Teaching that all white people are racist, whether in public school or in anti-racism training for public or private employers is not a “mistake”. It’s deliberate. It might not meet your definition of CRT, but if that is what CRT has come to mean in common usage, that’s what it means.

The mistake of course lies in the notion that race determines destiny and race is predictive of behavior. That is nonsense.

If that's what CRT is doing than I absolutely agree with you.

I don't think that is accurate in what CRT is doing. That sounds suspiciously like a classic distortion to get a wanted response which is a sensationalistic media trick.

I could be wrong tho.
 
Call this an aside or a digression or whatever...

The LA politician used the familiar phrase "the good, the bad, and the ugly" to describe how slavery should be discussed. He was immediately pounced on for using the word "good" while describing how slavery should be discussed. Perhaps he was inartful, but the blowback he got was ridiculous.
Woke don’t mess around. It’ll get everybody someday.
 
If that's what CRT is doing than I absolutely agree with you.

I don't think that is accurate in what CRT is doing. That sounds suspiciously like a classic distortion to get a wanted response which is a sensationalistic media trick.

I could be wrong tho.
You’re wrong about this. Read about all the private school parents that are being shunned and doxxed for not being overtly “anti-racist” enough for well-intentioned woke at their kids’ elite schools.
 
You’re wrong about this. Read about all the private school parents that are being shunned and doxxed for not being overtly “anti-racist” enough for well-intentioned woke at their kids’ elite schools.

Is that CRT or just dumbasses reacting emotionally?

I believe there is a distinction.

Like when dems get called baby killers that supposedly want to be able to abort babies up until they are in kindergarten.

That is a massive distortion that easily evokes a wanted response.
 
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You’re wrong about this. Read about all the private school parents that are being shunned and doxxed for not being overtly “anti-racist” enough for well-intentioned woke at their kids’ elite schools.

As a side note, I'm starting to flip flop on the anonymity of the internet.

Starting to think we need to put our real identities out there to try to curb the mean girls behavior.

I just watched the HBO doc on qanon and they went into the whole 4-chan and 8-chan rise and wow...it made me turn into a 1920's pastor in regards to the disgust at the lack of morality on those sites.

The most famous was a dude video streaming him shooting up a mosque in New Zealand while people cheered him on.
 
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As a side note, I'm starting to flip flop on the anonymity of the internet.

Starting to think we need to put our real identities out there to try to curb the mean girls behavior.

I just watched the HBO doc on qanon and they went into the whole 4-chan and 8-chan rise and wow...it made me turn into a 1920's pastor in regards to the disgust at the lack of morality on those sites.

The most famous was a dude video streaming him shooting up a mosque in New Zealand while people cheered him on.
Third party publishers shouldn’t be federally protected from identifying their subscribers when they do bad shit
 
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Call this an aside or a digression or whatever...

The LA politician used the familiar phrase "the good, the bad, and the ugly" to describe how slavery should be discussed. He was immediately pounced on for using the word "good" while describing how slavery should be discussed. Perhaps he was inartful, but the blowback he got was ridiculous.

The TN legislator was similarly pilloried for voicing a Lost Cause take on the 3/5 clause that many of a certain age and location would find familiar. It's hard to break away from the wrongheaded notions that were drilled into you as a kid. While historically wrong, I don't think he was being intentionally disingenuous.
The useful response to the "G, B and U" misspeak was to say "I know you didn't mean to say that". Instead it was weaponized immediately by the female legislator and Trevor himself.

So much for "serious hard conversations"
 
I have no issue with improving our curriculum by including more accurate representation of race in America. Unfortunately, the people driving this are still agenda-wonks with zero objectivity which get the "other side" in a defensive position.

No progress is being made with this model.
 
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The useful response to the "G, B and U" misspeak was to say "I know you didn't mean to say that". Instead it was weaponized immediately by the female legislator and Trevor himself.

So much for "serious hard conversations"

Maybe it is because of my interest in the Civil War, where most Civil War buffs have Confederate loyalties, but I have heard more than enough people say that slaves had a much better life here than they would have had in Africa. Tied to that the argument very few slaves were mistreated. When I hear that now, I don't bat an eye. So maybe this was a mistake and people who do not hear the argument pick up that it was a mistake in speach.

But don't think almost no one in America feels that way.
 
Courts. If it’s bad enough shit they’ll be in trouble if it’s not they won’t - like anything else. I do want to.

Someone's "bad enough shit" might be someone else's poetry. And with courts being a fairly-significant part of government how do you reconcile those pesky First Amendment issues?
 
Someone's "bad enough shit" might be someone else's poetry. And with courts being a fairly-significant part of government how do you reconcile those pesky First Amendment issues?
The courts weigh in on First Amendment issues all the time.
 
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Someone's "bad enough shit" might be someone else's poetry. And with courts being a fairly-significant part of government how do you reconcile those pesky First Amendment issues?
You know what the 1st actually protects and the limits and exceptions to same. Imo the fed stat that treats third party online publishers differently from tv print etc needs to be revisited. As it stands it’s been used to ban defamation claims, misappropriation, invasion of privacy etc. People can use these online outlets to anonymously trash someone or their business and there’s very little recourse for the victim.
 
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but I have heard more than enough people say that slaves had a much better life here than they would have had in Africa.

On this board or in Martinsville? I can't imagine anyone worth reading saying something that stupid on here, but I'm often surprised.

That being said, trying to equate slavery to the Holocaust is also in poor taste. They were both terrible events, but there were many differences between them, so they shouldn't be compared or contrasted because it does no good.
 
That being said, trying to equate slavery to the Holocaust is also in poor taste. They were both terrible events, but there were many differences between them, so they shouldn't be compared or contrasted because it does no good.

Agreed. That said, many of the comparisons that people make when debating politics are poor. Such as the summer riots over police brutality and murder and the attempted overthrow of the duly elected administration at the Capital.
 
As a side note, I'm starting to flip flop on the anonymity of the internet.

Starting to think we need to put our real identities out there to try to curb the mean girls behavior.

I just watched the HBO doc on qanon and they went into the whole 4-chan and 8-chan rise and wow...it made me turn into a 1920's pastor in regards to the disgust at the lack of morality on those sites.

The most famous was a dude video streaming him shooting up a mosque in New Zealand while people cheered him on.
The problem with real identities is that the liberal mobs that exist on Twitter don’t permit discourse if you’re not as progressive or anti-____ist as they are. You’re too ripe for cancelling if you have critical thoughts.

Real discourse can’t happen. It’d be a swamp of groupthink.
 
The problem with real identities is that the liberal mobs that exist on Twitter don’t permit discourse if you’re not as progressive or anti-____it’s as they are. You’re too ripe for cancelling if you have critical thoughts.
 
The problem with real identities is that the liberal mobs that exist on Twitter don’t permit discourse if you’re not as progressive or anti-____ist as they are. You’re too ripe for cancelling if you have critical thoughts.

Real discourse can’t happen. It’d be a swamp of groupthink.
You can maintain anonymity on the platform but if someone gets on here and starts posting that stoll F’d up his taxes and now hes being audited and it’s not true the publisher should have to disclose the real id of the poster
 
The useful response to the "G, B and U" misspeak was to say "I know you didn't mean to say that". Instead it was weaponized immediately by the female legislator and Trevor himself.

So much for "serious hard conversations"
The female legislator (who you describe as "weaponizing" his words against him) was herself a fellow CONSERVATIVE LA State lawmaker, who was shocked at his use of the term "good". The entire incident was captured on tape and they had a discussion that was tortured and awkward as each tried to express what they meant...

I guess it's my fault because rather than adding additional media to my post I settled for alluding to "the actual exchange" in a brief explanation, which you probably didn't read anyway. This is what I said...

"Now if you watch the entire clip of the actual exchange you realize how tortured and awkward a discourse it is, with Garofalo being forced to admit that just like the Holocaust we know slavery was evil, despite the fact that there are no living witnesses to rely on with first-hand knowledge. People who commented on the video on youtube felt it was actually a Freudian slip by Garofalo, but I'll reserve judgement on whether or not he is racist because I really don't know..." Here is THAT video...(mention of "good" is shortly after 5:00 mark)



As I said,I do NOT know if Garofalo is racist, but all of THAT is (IMO) the background to the actual story here, which identifies the problem the GOP has on this issue...

That is the fact that despite the fact that Garofalo was taken to task for misspeaking (by his GOP colleague Hilferty) in a very polite,and what I consider thoughtful manner (watch video) another influential fellow member of his base (Huckaby) DEFENDED his (self-admitted) misstep by doubling down on the idea that we did not KNOW slavery was bad. Imo, THAT viewpoint is a huge PR Problem for GOP leadership if they are trying to convince ORDINARY (non-Trump cultists) that the attacks on CRT are not based on racist attitudes...

Read Huckaby's tweet. She is not attacking the other GOP Legislator by claiming Garafalo was misquoted and simply misspoke- THAT would make sense. But instead she tries to equate the romanticized version of "biblical slavery" she has in her head with what slavery represents to victims/descendants in the US. She basically says that since "slaves in the Bible" were well treated, the same must be true of her plantation heritage. And that since no one who experienced slavery is still alive, then there is no way to disprove or even dispute her belief.

Hilferty seems to point out that it is a horrible bill academically, and contradicts itself frequently. In the end, Garofalo withdrew his bill, but not before the (imo) racist elements within his base surfaced publicly. THAT was the point of my post. Sorry for not originally articulating it better...
 
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Some forty years ago I was on a township school planning commission and the subject of whether sex education should be included in the high school curriculum came up.

We were convinced the parents would be against it, so we sent out a survey to them to prove this to be the case. Surprisingly over 80% were in favor.

Facing this, we had to decide what to teach and who could teach it. Teachers didn't feel qualified and had a strong reluctance to become involved.

When the subject of CRT comes up, I think about my sex education experience. I ask, who decides what to teach and who could teach it without all kind of bias coming into play?
 
Some forty years ago I was on a township school planning commission and the subject of whether sex education should be included in the high school curriculum came up.

We were convinced the parents would be against it, so we sent out a survey to them to prove this to be the case. Surprisingly over 80% were in favor.

Facing this, we had to decide what to teach and who could teach it. Teachers didn't feel qualified and had a strong reluctance to become involved.

When the subject of CRT comes up, I think about my sex education experience. I ask, who decides what to teach and who could teach it without all kind of bias coming into play?
Sex education is a legit debate. There is not a single part of critical race theory that should even be subject to a debate for k-12 education. Teaching youngsters that they are a certain way because of their race (over which they have no control) does irreparable harm to self image and young minds. Ben Carson and his world class skills as a pediatric brain surgeon is a gift to his patients. Being taught that his race made him a victim and oppressed very well could have deprived the world of his talents. Kids need to be taught to develop and use the things they can control for their own and others benefit. Teaching them that things they can’t control is an advantage for which they must apologize, or a handicap for which the deserve “equity” is a terrible lesson. That lesson is stifling and oppressive.
 
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The female legislator (who you describe as "weaponizing" his words against him) was herself a fellow CONSERVATIVE LA State lawmaker, who was shocked at his use of the term "good". The entire incident was captured on tape and they had a discussion that was tortured and awkward as each tried to express what they meant...

I guess it's my fault because rather than adding additional media to my post I settled for alluding to "the actual exchange" in a brief explanation, which you probably didn't read anyway. This is what I said...

"Now if you watch the entire clip of the actual exchange you realize how tortured and awkward a discourse it is, with Garofalo being forced to admit that just like the Holocaust we know slavery was evil, despite the fact that there are no living witnesses to rely on with first-hand knowledge. People who commented on the video on youtube felt it was actually a Freudian slip by Garofalo, but I'll reserve judgement on whether or not he is racist because I really don't know..." Here is THAT video...(mention of "good" is shortly after 5:00 mark)



As I said,I do NOT know if Garofalo is racist, but all of THAT is (IMO) the background to the actual story here, which identifies the problem the GOP has on this issue...

That is the fact that despite the fact that Garofalo was taken to task for misspeaking (by his GOP colleague Hilferty) in a very polite,and what I consider thoughtful manner (watch video) another influential fellow member of his base (Huckaby) DEFENDED his (self-admitted) misstep by doubling down on the idea that we did not KNOW slavery was bad. Imo, THAT viewpoint is a huge PR Problem for GOP leadership if they are trying to convince ORDINARY (non-Trump cultists) that the attacks on CRT are not based on racist attitudes...

Read Huckaby's tweet. She is not attacking the other GOP Legislator by claiming Garafalo was misquoted and simply misspoke- THAT would make sense. But instead she tries to equate the romanticized version of "biblical slavery" she has in her head with what slavery represents to victims/descendants in the US. She basically says that since "slaves in the Bible" were well treated, the same must be true of her plantation heritage. And that since no one who experienced slavery is still alive, then there is no way to disprove or even dispute her belief.

Hilferty seems to point out that it is a horrible bill academically, and contradicts itself frequently. In the end, Garofalo withdrew his bill, but not before the (imo) racist elements within his base surfaced publicly. THAT was the point of my post. Sorry for not originally articulating it better...
Do you believe all attacks on CRT (which I'm going to use like everybody else here as just a catch-all term for antiracism thought espoused by Kendi and the like, along with racial wokeness, not the technical academic theory that Goat refers back to) come just from members of the GOP?

Do you believe that everyone who disagrees with CRT does so because of racist attitudes?

Do you believe that if one, or several or even thousands, of the people who attack CRT are racists (in the old-school, intentional sense), that means everyone who disagree with CRT are, therefore, also racists?
 
Do you believe all attacks on CRT (which I'm going to use like everybody else here as just a catch-all term for antiracism thought espoused by Kendi and the like, along with racial wokeness, not the technical academic theory that Goat refers back to) come just from members of the GOP?

Do you believe that everyone who disagrees with CRT does so because of racist attitudes?

Do you believe that if one, or several or even thousands, of the people who attack CRT are racists (in the old-school, intentional sense), that means everyone who disagree with CRT are, therefore, also racists?
Well, yeah, HE does.

But he’s an idiot.
 
Do you believe that if one, or several or even thousands, of the people who attack CRT are racists (in the old-school, intentional sense), that means everyone who disagree with CRT are, therefore, also racists?

I don't think there's any question that the pendulum of our public discourse has swung widely to one side (that's what you get when cops murder black people in broad daylight, unconcerned that they're being filmed), and there's a strong backlash in play.

I listen to NPR almost exclusively during the day as I drive around. It seems like all the news reports and panel discussions are currently focused on some kind of question of race (followed closely by gender). Frankly, it's getting old. I'm not so much angered or offended as much as I'm tired of the constant and continuous dialog. The alternatives are country music or pop tarts or rap or the EIB Network playing Rush's greatest hits. I hope the pendulum swings back toward something less constantly contentious soon.
 
I don't think there's any question that the pendulum of our public discourse has swung widely to one side (that's what you get when cops murder black people in broad daylight, unconcerned that they're being filmed), and there's a strong backlash in play.

I listen to NPR almost exclusively during the day as I drive around. It seems like all the news reports and panel discussions are currently focused on some kind of question of race (followed closely by gender). Frankly, it's getting old. I'm not so much angered or offended as much as I'm tired of the constant and continuous dialog. The alternatives are country music or pop tarts or rap or the EIB Network playing Rush's greatest hits. I hope the pendulum swings back toward something less constantly contentious soon.
Listen to podcasts! They are everything I ever wanted from talk radio. I highly suggest them for your driving time. My favorites: Econtalk, Mindscape with Sean Carroll, and Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History ( the best!). Joe Rogan has interesting guests and two hour conversations but he’s hit or miss, Sam Harris can be interesting but repetitive. There a podcast for whatever you’re interested in.
 
Do you believe all attacks on CRT (which I'm going to use like everybody else here as just a catch-all term for antiracism thought espoused by Kendi and the like, along with racial wokeness, not the technical academic theory that Goat refers back to) come just from members of the GOP?

Do you believe that everyone who disagrees with CRT does so because of racist attitudes?

Do you believe that if one, or several or even thousands, of the people who attack CRT are racists (in the old-school, intentional sense), that means everyone who disagree with CRT are, therefore, also racists?
I think with regards to CRT, it is a major issue/talking point for the board's biggest Trumper CoH. But I think I said in my opening post in this thread that I considered it far from anything MOST people care about, outside of the Trump base who are eager to utilize it as a wedge issue in their idea of the culture war...

I liken it to the buildup to the 2018 midterms where if you watched Fox on a daily basis you got the idea that the biggest issues facing the country were "the caravans" and the mistreatment of Kavanaugh. But in actuality, the biggest issue that seemed to drive voters in Blue/purple states to the polls was their disgust for Trump.

I base that on between 10 and 11 Million people voting more for Dem House AND Senate candidates than for GOP candidates. Pro-Trump candidates lost in every contested Blue or purple state race, although they did very well in Red states...The 3 states that basically gave Trump the 2016 election all voted exclusively for Dem candidates across the board in Congressional/Gubernatorial races in 2018, and all 3 gave Biden more % of votes in 2020 than they had given Trump in 2016. I'm talking PA, WI, and MI...

Personally, I'm not particularly invested either way in CRT- I merely added comments related to what I saw recently on the subject to a thread ABOUT CRT. I then created a post about what I saw as a PR issue the GOP has on the subject, and why along with allegiance to Trump they could end up doing far worse than they expect in the upcoming midterms, even with the built-in advantages of off-year/Presidential party losses and the upcoming Gerrymandering Trump's mangling of the census will allow. I can say that because I was a Census Field Supervisor and saw it firsthand...

On CRT,I think the Pakman video I watched today (and posted) nails it, both for the fact that people who "oppose it" often have no idea of "what it is", and also I agree with Pakman's view of it as just one lens to view things thru, in forming a world view.

As someone who lived thru the turbulent era of Segregation/Civil Rights, I certainly see merit in the academic aspects. I did a google search and found this, discussing the Right's obsession with introducing these "Red State bills"...

"Most legal scholars say that these bills impinge on the right to free speech and will likely be dismissed in court. “Of the legislative language so far, none of the bills are fully constitutional,” Joe Cohn, the legislative and policy director of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, told me, “and if it isn’t fully constitutional, there’s a word for that: It means it’s unconstitutional.” This does not appear to concern the bills’ sponsors, though. The larger purpose, it seems, is to rally the Republican base—to push back against the recent reexaminations of the role that slavery and segregation have played in American history and the attempts to redress those historical offenses. The shorthand for the Republicans’ bogeyman is an idea that has until now mostly lived in academia: critical race theory.

The late Harvard law professor Derrick Bell is credited as the father of critical race theory. He began conceptualizing the idea in the 1970s as a way to understand how race and American law interact, and developed a course on the subject. In 1980, Bell resigned his position at Harvard because of what he viewed as the institution’s discriminatory hiring practices, especially its failure to hire an Asian American woman he’d recommended."


I'm sorry if I haven't answered your questions- I honestly have never thought about it...
The story I researched/posted only dealt with members of the GOP. As to my opinion, I've found that it usually makes sense for me to personally oppose positions that CoH takes. I think for someone so pompous and pretentious he usually posts nonsense.

So to the extent I actually care about the issue personally, his opposition leads me to believe that in reality, it's something I'm more inclined to deem beneficial than harmful. I do think his posts on penalizing gun manufacturers make sense, so I don't always disagree with him. But I kind of think he sees the cooler as his own personal pond to troll in, and that sort of rubs me the wrong way...
 
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Lumping all whites together as “racist” or “privileged” or “favored” is no different or no better than the Klan.1 and/or Klan.2 lumping all blacks together under their selected stereotypes and attributes.

Both are racist and expressions of bias and hatred and cannot cure racism.

Jobs, education and equal opportunity fix things. All else is for naught.

And sports. Put David Duke and Louis Farrakhan in the same gym rooting for the same team and you’ll see progress too.


CRT is a vicious lie clothed in pseudo-academics. All adherents of CRT are promoting hatred and racism. Some unknowingly, but that doesn't make it OK. I encourage anyone forced to sit through CRT training in the workplace to file a claim with the courts and EEOC arguing that they were subjected to a hostile work environment on the basis of race. Plaintiffs lawyers should file class actions. Being a Caucasian is an immutable physical characteristic protected by law to the same extent as other races, sex, age and disability.
 
The due process clause, the 4th, 5th, 6th, 13,th, snd 14th, Amendments, Brown vs. The Board of Education, and the Civil Rights Laws, were all written by not just white people, but white males. Are these great expressions of equal and civil rights examples of white male racist history? Yeah, I’ve cherry picked. But to say we are a historically racist country also requires cherry picking. I hate the generalizations in the video link. Generalizations built on selected history is terribly divisive and destructive. Division and racial chaos is unfortunately seen as good politics.
Of course they were written by white males - they wouldn’t have seen the light of day if they hadn’t been. And, more than half of those only benefitted white males when they were originally written.
 
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