Good you go negotiate with ISIS or HAMAS or any other radical muslim nation. Let me know how that turns out.
Dividing the world into heroes and villains does us little good
- Thread starter sglowrider
- Start date
Good you go negotiate with ISIS or HAMAS or any other radical muslim nation. Let me know how that turns out.
I live in an area that's surrounded by 200 million Muslims. Because of the regular interactions --whether for work or socially, you see both sides -- especially here in Singapore where social harmony ie between racial and religious groups is legislated. (Restriction of hate speech.)
I am also lucky in that I am stuck in the middle of the Cold War between China and the US. Singapore, being at the southern tip of the Straits of Malacca where 2/3rd of China or Japan's energy passes through; 2nd most busiest port in the world.
Singapore has to take a neutral stance even though its armed to the teeth (an Israeli-developed strategy) with American aircraft (incl the F35s in 2026) and the US being the largest investor here.
But Singapore is also dependent on China, the 2nd largest investor here -- and in some ways, Singapore's survival is dependent on China in the long run.)
So the perspective I get here is pretty objective. Not much confirmation bias here. So I see both sides of the issue.
And it is not like some Hollywood movie where there is a clear demarcation between the good guys and the bad guys. The perception of the 'bad guys' created by the media and politicians is almost cartoonish. (Honestly, the US perception of the rest of the world is so parochial it's shocking. And how do I know this? My siblings.)
The dehumanising of one particular group where one life is lost means less than another is another thing that if you are being honest with yourself is wrong.
Speaking of Hollywood need to go back to the lessons of The Wire.
The good guys are also bad and the bad guys can also be good.
The question isn't determining who the good and who bad ones are; their actions etc since Newton's 3rd law is in play.
The question that needs to be asked -- how did we get there? The history.
If not it's only a pointless but often repeated exercise of virtue signalling here in the WC -- as in the case of the recent conflagrations in the ME.
Otherwise, this constant hatred keeps spiralling -- and any little understanding going forward becomes near impossible.
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Btw, you’re getting really good at this spying gig. 😊
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Crazy would make a very shitty diplomat, that's for sure.
You really want to put Israel in same basket as Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis, Iran and Russia?
It depends who's perspective. Haterd doesn't build up in isolation. Plus those guys think they are equally correct in their cause. Are they evil or they think they are correct and the West are really the evil ones? We are talking hundreds of millions of people if not over a billion.
Like I said in the previous thread, you need to look at the Brits for the problems a century later.
The devil's advocate perspective here is that the US are major hypocrites. No accountability for the Iraqi invasion where a few hundred Iraqis died because of an illegal war? Caging kids by the border facilities to George Floyd... All not good looks.
The billions spent in softpower here has been gradually eroded over the last decade.
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May explain why they never offered me citizenship. ( supposed to be the most valuable passport in the world!) Yet my ex was offered! I am sure my passive/aggressive behaviour over that contributed to the demise of the relationship!
The real intelligent discussion here should be people arguing for their opposition views. And not just waving the flag, chest beating or virtue signalling
Like a proper debate
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The Iraq War will be a long term stain upon US foreign policy.
The border and George Floyd? GTFO. The cop who killed Floyd is in prison. And the border is still a disaster. Something few other countries on earth would allow to occur. We have ridiculously stupid asylum laws that we can't agree to fix. I'm sure Singapore is not so dumb.
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I would not put Russia in the same basket. Iran would be a different basket. ISIS, HZ, Hamas in yet another.
Its too hot here. No one will want to be here.
Plus they cant afford to live here. No slums where you can live 12 in a room here. There are over 1.2 million migrant workers (pre-covid numbers) though.
Iraqi war may be a stain on 'domestic' foreign policy. Or the Monroe Doctrine?
But it has damaged the credibility of the US tremendously in the rest of the world. I have had Russians throw that argument at me when discussing Ukraine.
Regarding George Flyod's case, nobody remembers the court case. They do remember the video that was seen across the world and what happened after.
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No they are impossible crazies. I get what you are saying, but you are not getting though to them.
I agree that there is no getting through to Hamas terrorists. When they're premise is 'death to Jews' there really isn't a seat at the proverbial negotiating table for that.
Go outside the major cities in China and it’s a third world hell hole. The current system they have just shows that even some free market principles is light years better than none.
Luckily for us, we had you to set them straight. I’m sure you told them there are no heroes and villains. Thanks Mr. Objective 😉
👍 Didn’t you know Singapore is perfect?
I wouldn’t call it perfect, but it is a right wing conservative state. They’re very strong on law and order (and military). They also have low taxes and a pro business climate.
I am a natural devils advocate. I was obviously defending the states with him. Told him that Russia has to respect other countries' sovereignty and territorial integrity etc. Then he threw me a long list of conflicts and interventions the US has been involved in etc. It was still raw with me -- was like over 17 months ago.
Eventually he blocked me!
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Plus super low crime. Think we had like only 8 murders the post-covid year when I think there was a massive spike elsewhere in the world.
You can walk anywhere at 3am without feeling threaten. I see a lot of women jogging alone at night like 10pm, only my way back from my bike ride. (Not me out perving just in case you are wondering.)
I agree with a lot of what you say, but could you please tell me whose objective perspective equates Hamas's murder and beheading of innocent babies and rape and murder of young women with IDF tactics?
"Oppressed" people can cross the line of moral "resistance." If you do not believe that what Hamas just did crosses that line, you aren't objective, you are deluded and depraved (that last word isn't hyperbole, either).
Also, why do you think living in Singapore gives you a more objective view of the Israeli-Palestine dispute than those living in the United States? Both places are thousands of miles away, dominated by different cultures.
I am surrounded by Muslims here. You interact with them and her their perspectives. You hear both sides of the conflict.
They view is that the Israelis are evil because they kill Palestinians on a daily basis (a bunch of Palestinians were shot dead in the West Bank a day before the attack); stole their land and basically have imposed apartheid on them.
And don't be a simpleton. Just because I offer another side to the story doesn't mean I condone what they did.
This world isn't about 'if you aren't with me, you must be against me.' If so, then this isn't a forum but some echo chamber.
There are over 1.2 billion Muslims out there. Do you think they are all evil and or became 'evil' in isolation? Surely you are bright enough to at least question why they have such a big issue against the West? I hope.
It's a perpetual Newton's 3rd law in play.
Both sides in these long drawn out conflicts have done shit things. But if you want to take that simplified perspective and see one action/event and then judge them on that -- Go ahead but you are selling your intelligence short. History and time perspective matters.
Lots. There are lots of rich folks here. Lots of 20million condos or 50-80million houses here. Lots
Not all cultures are equivalent not all governments are equivalent.
If you’re unwilling to make a value judgment on Hamas/ CCP/ Putin vs. Israel/ U.S. you are at best a moral coward and at worse amoral yourself.
If you’re unwilling to make a value judgment on Hamas/ CCP/ Putin vs. Israel/ U.S. you are at best a moral coward and at worse amoral yourself.
You're missing the point and reading too much into what I wrote that was not there. As I said, our opinions mostly align on this subject. Not everyone who pushes back at you on a topic is a jingoistic American or anti-Chinese racist--you'd do well to remember that, instead of coming out swinging.
I don't judge all Palestinians or Muslims based on the actions of Hamas over the last week. Read my other posts. But I do judge Hamas based on those actions. I judge those people who committed them and supported it. And I judge those actions as evil. It really is pretty simple. One can offer a lot of explanations for why those people did what they did, but one cannot offer any justifications that are not depraved.
As for your explanation of the Muslim's opinions around you, as my 15-year-old daughter would say, "obvi!" I've known that for decades. And I didn't have to live in Singapore to learn it. There are books on the subject, magazine articles, and even here in the United States, Jews and Muslims who I've known for decades (many I met at IU) who don't all have uniform opinions on the subject.
Oh man that's a criticism that can hit a bullseye on both sides.
Don’t be a dolt. We’re saying the same thing. One God, many different names/versions of worship.
@BradStevens I admire how you handle Bloom poking at you sometimes.
I am just now starting to get back some of my energy and stamina and appetite and lung function, and I caught it back in March or April.
Takes about six months to get it all back IMO.
I think I may have picked it up again but the symptoms are pretty mild ... only feel it if I am on the treadmill -- high heart rate for teh time & pace I was going plus the lungs feel pretty stressed out.
(I had the bivalent shot like 4 months ago.)
