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Critical Race Theory & Confederate Statues



The best thing about this dishonest framing is that they argue the semantic point that race-related lessons being taught aren't technically CRT so the objections are wrong, but then intentionally mislead readers to suggest bans are on discussions about racism (they are not).
Also, defining lesson plans focused on taking away individualism and looking at people primarily through their skin color as "progress" is rather questionable.
 
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I'm pretty sure 1860 COH would be telling us that it's disgusting how the federal government is tyrannically and unconstitutionally forcing it's will onto the states. That the anti-slavery libs are just virtue signaling with the woke mob.

The lefties are going to destroy the country if slaves are freed because the economy will collapse and crime will rise to out of control proportions.

None of that was on Lincoln's agenda. His platform plank on slavery was no more than stopping its expansion. The southern states knew that once additional free states were added, slavery would no longer be sustainable in the long term.
 
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None of that was on Lincoln's agenda. His platform plank on slavery was no more than stopping its expansion. The southern states knew that once additional free states were added, slavery would no longer be sustainable in the long term.
Wasn't that his platform to start but went full on abolish mode as his tenure moved on?

Which is why I enjoyed Spielberg's Lincoln movie, as it shows him manipulating the end of the war (which could be argued was shady) to get enough votes to abolish it via law (because if the war ended earlier it would have never passed and just kicked the can down the road).
 
Wasn't that his platform to start but went full on abolish mode as his tenure moved on?

Which is why I enjoyed Spielberg's Lincoln movie, as it shows him manipulating the end of the war (which could be argued was shady) to get enough votes to abolish it via law (because if the war ended earlier it would have never passed and just kicked the can down the road).
Of course things changed after seccession and the war. But even then it was incremental. The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the warring states, for example. But by war's end he knew that the question had to be settled once and for all if the Union was to be preserved.
 
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You think Lincoln was a conservative?

You think blowing up the southern economy was conservative thinking?

If we had the WC in 1860 I'm pretty sure there would be posts about 'destroying people's businesses' or the massive increase in labor costs which will hurt businesses if slavery is abolished.

We need less government, particularly federal. Let the states decide!!!!!

Does that sound like a liberal argument?
I don't know if you realize it or not, Tommy, but Lincoln was a little preoccupied with keeping the Union together to worry about what he was doing was conservative or liberal.

Conservatives are usually for states' rights, but not at the expense of slavery for its citizens.

You really should have stayed awake during 8th grade history class.
 
Wasn't that his platform to start but went full on abolish mode as his tenure moved on?

Which is why I enjoyed Spielberg's Lincoln movie, as it shows him manipulating the end of the war (which could be argued was shady) to get enough votes to abolish it via law (because if the war ended earlier it would have never passed and just kicked the can down the road).
You should not learn your history through movies and CNN.
 


The best thing about this dishonest framing is that they argue the semantic point that race-related lessons being taught aren't technically CRT so the objections are wrong, but then intentionally mislead readers to suggest bans are on discussions about racism (they are not).
Also, defining lesson plans focused on taking away individualism and looking at people primarily through their skin color as "progress" is rather questionable.
Critical race theory is an attempt to teach the truth that, historically in America, people have not been judged as individuals, but on the color of their skin. Republicans, of course, as always deny reality and make the absurd claim that teaching about racism is racism. Looking at people primarily through their skin color is what Republicans are doing now as they try to take away the right of black people to vote. Trying to stop Republicans from succeeding in this is what Democrats are doing.
 
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Critical race theory is an attempt to teach the truth that, historically in America, people have not been judged as individuals, but on the color of their skin. Republicans, of course, as always deny reality and make the absurd claim that teaching about racism is racism. Looking at people primarily through their skin color is what Republicans are doing now as they try to take away the right of black people to vote. Trying to stop Republicans from succeeding in this is what Democrats are doing.
“Teaching CRT” is not the same thing as “teaching about racism”

So there’s yer problem right there.

You got the first step wrong and, well, we know the rest …
 
I don't know if you realize it or not, Tommy, but Lincoln was a little preoccupied with keeping the Union together to worry about what he was doing was conservative or liberal.

Conservatives are usually for states' rights, but not at the expense of slavery for its citizens.

You really should have stayed awake during 8th grade history class.
Exactly...to save the Union, Lincoln had to become a Democrat.
 


There are no "bans on teaching history and discussing racism in the classroom"

Even the laws that I think might overstep do nothing of the sort. And it's rather telling that defenders keep lying about what parents are concerned about and what is being addressed.
 
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Was Robert Byrd a democrat when he organized and led a local chapter of the KKK in the 40s? Why was he forgiven by the democrats?
Ask Lee Atwater, I have posted his quotes here many times. The Republicans developed a southern strategy to actively take racists from the Democratic Party. Look at his quotes and see if there is any other possible explanation. The D party that Byrd was part of all moved to the R party.

Anyone can take a crack at that, what else was Atwater saying if not that?
 
Lincoln didn’t become a democrat.
At a certain point you have to give up. They feel a certain way, ergo that is fact. "I feel that I am part of a party that is the good guys. And Lincoln was doing good stuff and even though he came from a religious party that espoused several extremely conservative views, the fact he got things right on the topic that we think is the only important topic by which to view our country's history must make him one of us."
 
At a certain point you have to give up. They feel a certain way, ergo that is fact. "I feel that I am part of a party that is the good guys. And Lincoln was doing good stuff and even though he came from a religious party that espoused several extremely conservative views, the fact he got things right on the topic that we think is the only important topic by which to view our country's history must make him one of us."
I listed several items, colleges, rail, homesteading, where Lincoln took what was the liberal position of his era.
 
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At a certain point you have to give up. They feel a certain way, ergo that is fact. "I feel that I am part of a party that is the good guys. And Lincoln was doing good stuff and even though he came from a religious party that espoused several extremely conservative views, the fact he got things right on the topic that we think is the only important topic by which to view our country's history must make him one of us."
You’re right. Give up and let them have their way. Their party was the party of slave owners and they want to claim the Republican that took them away.
 
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You’re right. Give up and let them have their way. Their party was the party of slave owners and they want to claim the Republican that took them away.
Look up Atwater's quote and tell me that isn't what he said was the GOP was doing. Go ahead. So far in a couple threads this has come up not a single person has tackled Atwater.

Here is the quote:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “N — — r, n — — r, n — — r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n — — r” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N — — r, n — — r.”
 
Look up Atwater's quote and tell me that isn't what he said was the GOP was doing. Go ahead. So far in a couple threads this has come up not a single person has tackled Atwater.

Here is the quote:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “N — — r, n — — r, n — — r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n — — r” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N — — r, n — — r.”
Now do AOC.
 
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Sorry Van, this is example A of a perceived right wing fear that's based on long, underlying feelings and attitudes...but not based in reality.

It's Infowars version of CRT.
Black Lives Matters Organization is in step with CRT aren't they? What is their goal? It is the overthrow of the United States. Their website said so. They are a bunch of communists.
 
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Ask Lee Atwater, I have posted his quotes here many times. The Republicans developed a southern strategy to actively take racists from the Democratic Party. Look at his quotes and see if there is any other possible explanation. The D party that Byrd was part of all moved to the R party.

Anyone can take a crack at that, what else was Atwater saying if not that?
This Southern Strategy of Nixon is still largely a myth. Some of the Democrats believe so strongly in it because it makes you feel better about your party. It makes you feel better that the party of slavery, Jim Crow and the Klan has somehow cleansed itself. Nixon didn't convert your racists to Republicans. Just look at prominent Dixiecrats. Except for Strom Thurmond most of them stayed Democrats. Robert Byrd never left the party. Neither did George Wallace or Al Gore Sr. When Nixon won in 1968, supposedly employing the "Southern Strategy," Democrat George Wallace won the deep south states. This alone should give the "Southern Strategy" believers pause. It doesn't support your theory at all. Nixon basically didn't even campaign in the south in '68. He concentrated on the north and the Sunbelt. Nothing Nixon ran on was racist. "Law and order" isn't racist. A majority of Americans didn't have positive opinions of "hippies" protesting the Vietnam war. "Law and order" appealed to them. Nixon supported Civil Rights and he supported Affirmative Action. He was ultimately a crook, but he never ran on racist policies. Besides he won in landslides in the North and the Sunbelt in 1968 and won nearly every state in 1972. Again, it doesn't support the theory. Atwater is a single person. He's not the party. What Atwater said in no way proves that he had final say in what the party did or that any prominent Republicans really bought into what he said in an interview years after the supposed implementation of this "strategy."

More southern Democrats became Republicans as their economic situation improved. That plus social issues (abortion especially) were the keys for Republicans gaining popularity in the south. Of course some racists have probably come to favor the Republican party because they THINK they're more comfortable there, but make no mistake, there are plenty of racists in the Democratic party too.

I'll depart with the comment I overheard in 1980 from a prominent Democratic activist in Bloomington when I was helping with the Carter campaign (to be honest, helping very little, as I was more preoccupied with partying, but I passed out a few flyers and attended a meeting or two ;) ). I was shocked when I heard the guy tell another guy, "I'd vote for the blackest N-word before I'd vote for a Republican." Obviously that solid Democrat (and racist) hated Republicans more than he hated black people. Racists live among us, obviously.
 
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This Southern Strategy of Nixon is still largely a myth. Some of the Democrats believe so strongly in it because it makes you feel better about your party. It makes you feel better that the party of slavery, Jim Crow and the Klan has somehow cleansed itself. Nixon didn't convert your racists to Republicans. Just look at prominent Dixiecrats. Except for Strom Thurmond most of them stayed Democrats. Robert Byrd never left the party. Neither did George Wallace or Al Gore Sr. When Nixon won in 1968, supposedly employing the "Southern Strategy," Democrat George Wallace won the deep south states. This alone should give the "Southern Strategy" believers pause. It doesn't support your theory at all. Nixon basically didn't even campaign in the south in '68. He concentrated on the north and the Sunbelt. Nothing Nixon ran on was racist. "Law and order" isn't racist. A majority of Americans didn't have positive opinions of "hippies" protesting the Vietnam war. "Law and order" appealed to them. Nixon supported Civil Rights and he supported Affirmative Action. He was ultimately a crook, but he never ran on racist policies. Besides he won in landslides in the North and the Sunbelt in 1968 and won nearly every state in 1972. Again, it doesn't support the theory. Atwater is a single person. He's not the party. What Atwater said in no way proves that he had a say in what the party did or that any prominent Republicans really bought into what he said in an interview years after the supposed implementation of this "strategy."

More southern Democrats became Republicans as their economic situation improved. That plus social issues (abortion especially) were the keys for Republicans gaining popularity in the south. Of course some racists have probably come to favor the Republican party because they THINK they're more comfortable there, but make no mistake, there are plenty of racists in the Democratic party too.

I'll depart with the comment I overheard in 1980 from a prominent Democratic activist in Bloomington when I was helping with the Carter campaign (to be honest, helping very little, as I was more preoccupied with partying, but I passed out a few flyers and attended a meeting or two ;) ). I was shocked when I heard the guy tell another guy, "I'd vote for the blackest N-word before I'd vote for a Republican." Obviously that solid Democrat (and racist) hated Republicans more than he hated black people. Racists live among us, obviously.
Excellent post and you hit on an important issue: abortion. I believe this is one of, if not THE, major reasons southerners started voting Republican.

I live here in Charlotte now, after living all my life in Indiana. I can tell you whites and blacks get along way better here than in the 'north'. The black middle class is very strong here. The Lieutenant Governor is black - and Republican. The Governor is a white Democrat. I don't see race playing any kind of political issue here.
 
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This Southern Strategy of Nixon is still largely a myth. Some of the Democrats believe so strongly in it because it makes you feel better about your party. It makes you feel better that the party of slavery, Jim Crow and the Klan has somehow cleansed itself. Nixon didn't convert your racists to Republicans. Just look at prominent Dixiecrats. Except for Strom Thurmond most of them stayed Democrats. Robert Byrd never left the party. Neither did George Wallace or Al Gore Sr. When Nixon won in 1968, supposedly employing the "Southern Strategy," Democrat George Wallace won the deep south states. This alone should give the "Southern Strategy" believers pause. It doesn't support your theory at all. Nixon basically didn't even campaign in the south in '68. He concentrated on the north and the Sunbelt. Nothing Nixon ran on was racist. "Law and order" isn't racist. A majority of Americans didn't have positive opinions of "hippies" protesting the Vietnam war. "Law and order" appealed to them. Nixon supported Civil Rights and he supported Affirmative Action. He was ultimately a crook, but he never ran on racist policies. Besides he won in landslides in the North and the Sunbelt in 1968 and won nearly every state in 1972. Again, it doesn't support the theory. Atwater is a single person. He's not the party. What Atwater said in no way proves that he had final say in what the party did or that any prominent Republicans really bought into what he said in an interview years after the supposed implementation of this "strategy."

More southern Democrats became Republicans as their economic situation improved. That plus social issues (abortion especially) were the keys for Republicans gaining popularity in the south. Of course some racists have probably come to favor the Republican party because they THINK they're more comfortable there, but make no mistake, there are plenty of racists in the Democratic party too.

I'll depart with the comment I overheard in 1980 from a prominent Democratic activist in Bloomington when I was helping with the Carter campaign (to be honest, helping very little, as I was more preoccupied with partying, but I passed out a few flyers and attended a meeting or two ;) ). I was shocked when I heard the guy tell another guy, "I'd vote for the blackest N-word before I'd vote for a Republican." Obviously that solid Democrat (and racist) hated Republicans more than he hated black people. Racists live among us, obviously.
You tackle the wrong issue. Atwater worked for Reagan and Bush 41, not Nixon. Atwater also worked for Thurmond. I have posted his quote, is he lying? Did he not have power in the GOP? Was he not famous and powerful inside the party?

There are Democratic racists, I do not attempt to deny that. But Atwater HAD a southern strategy and that is undeniable. Atwater's strategy is explained in that quote.

Many people legitimately love small government. I have zero doubt you are one. I have no problems with that, we can discuss if that is an effective strategy for bettering the country. Atwater in that quote explains how that belief is an easy sell to racists. That isn't your fault, but it is a truth.
 
You tackle the wrong issue. Atwater worked for Reagan and Bush 41, not Nixon. Atwater also worked for Thurmond. I have posted his quote, is he lying? Did he not have power in the GOP? Was he not famous and powerful inside the party?

There are Democratic racists, I do not attempt to deny that. But Atwater HAD a southern strategy and that is undeniable. Atwater's strategy is explained in that quote.

Many people legitimately love small government. I have zero doubt you are one. I have no problems with that, we can discuss if that is an effective strategy for bettering the country. Atwater in that quote explains how that belief is an easy sell to racists. That isn't your fault, but it is a truth.
Everyone points to Nixon as employing a "Southern Strategy" in 1968 - when George Wallace, the actual racist running for President, won the deep south states. Where's the evidence that Nixon actually employed this "Southern Strategy?"

If the policies aren't racist, why do Democrats insist in calling them racist? Are they employing a strategy of their own? I think they are, actually.
 
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Everyone points to Nixon as employing a "Southern Strategy" in 1968 - when George Wallace, the actual racist running for President, won the deep south states. Where's the evidence that Nixon actually employed this "Southern Strategy?"

If the policies aren't racist, why do Democrats insist in calling them racist? Are they employing a strategy of their own? I think they are, actually.
I am not sure where I am failing to communicate. The question is Lee Atwater, a games Republican operative who headed a couple different winning Republican campaigns and neither is named Nixon. He has a quote about going after racists. I am more than willing to discuss Nixon after we settle on Atwater.

Atwater's plan, that Bannon dusted off, was to attract racist voters. As Atwater points out, they will support cuts that hurt themselves if they believe the cuts hurts Blacks more.

I think most small government people, if confronted with the fact that Blacks are hurt by eliminating a program might try to alleviate that in some way. For example, the famed empowerment zones. There are the racist subset that says no to anything and everything.
 
At a certain point you have to give up. They feel a certain way, ergo that is fact. "I feel that I am part of a party that is the good guys. And Lincoln was doing good stuff and even though he came from a religious party that espoused several extremely conservative views, the fact he got things right on the topic that we think is the only important topic by which to view our country's history must make him one of us."

Again it's not about party, it's about ideology.

I'll totally give you that conservatives and the country in general have moved left since the 1860's (I mean, duh) so the 'social change/justice' has now become more accepted as the Overton window has moved left.

Good God I would hope so.

The fact that today's current republican party is allergic to black support while also only having what, 3 republican black congressmen should be a pretty telling sign, a dead give away.

In the election of 1860 there were four dudes....Lincoln, Breckenridge, Bell and Douglass.

Lincoln was the radical change candidate, so much that when he was elected the south said f this and broke from the union immediately.

Those resisting change, particularly social change, is a hallmark of conservative behavior. It's why we call someone conservative in general when they are perceived as resistant to new ideas and change.

"Do you favor putting names on the backs of IU jerseys?"

"No, I'm pretty conservative here when it comes to keeping our long, standing traditions."
 
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