You’ve lost that Lovn’ Feeling

[CO. Hoosier]

There are Confederate monuments in Mass, NY, IN, Iowa. Helena MT has one but it has been renamed. Any wild guesses how many thousands of people from MT fought for the Confederacy (or from NY, or MA)? They were propagating the lost cause myth.

Confederate Memorial Fountain (Helena, Montana) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You are picking a lot of nits here. If Lee had been around during the revolution, he’d likely have a monument in D.C. and his likeness would probably be on our currency. Lee turned down Scott’s offer to command the Northern Army for exactly what he is condemned for today, he didn’t want to commit treason against Virginia. In those days, state loyalty was a very big deal. I think it’s a mistake to now throw his statue into a furnace as an expression of unity.

But my point is much bigger than Lee. Those who faced the horrors of slavery, and saw thousands of humans blown to bits in the Civil War came together in respect and unity to move the nation forward—with Lincoln leading the way., The obsession with civil war monuments and names, which in my view is largely a trendy reaction to current events, is strong evidence that we lost that lovin feeling and betrays what Lincoln sought to achieve.

His untimely death costs us in many different ways.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You are picking a lot of nits here. If Lee had been around during the revolution, he’d likely have a monument in D.C. and his likeness would probably be on our currency. Lee turned down Scott’s offer to command the Northern Army for exactly what he is condemned for today, he didn’t want to commit treason against Virginia. In those days, state loyalty was a very big deal. I think it’s a mistake to now throw his statue into a furnace as an expression of unity.

But my point is much bigger than Lee. Those who faced the horrors of slavery, and saw thousands of humans blown to bits in the Civil War came together in respect and unity to move the nation forward—with Lincoln leading the way., The obsession with civil war monuments and names, which in my view is largely a trendy reaction to current events, is strong evidence that we lost that lovin feeling and betrays what Lincoln sought to achieve.

His untimely death costs us in many different ways.

Soldiers coming together is common. I just read a book about a German Mt division that fought north of the Arctic circle with the Finns against Russia. In it, an American General wrote the forward. He said the Finns, Germans, and Russians had reunions and there was great camaraderie. The only ones who caused trouble were Norwegians Nazis who hated the Russians.

You speak often of not seeing Black and White, or gay or straight. Why Reb vs Yank? All those monuments could say "to the brave men ...". But they don't. I see no problem with that. And as I said, I see no problems with monuments in cemeteries and battlefields to Billy Reb.

And Virginia never built a monument to George Thomas and the brave Virginians that fought for the Union. I guess maybe they were not brave enough.

Is it really so impossible to accept that maybe between 1900 and 1930 the children and grandchildren of Confederates built monuments like these to espouse the lost cause myth? It has nothing to do with Chamberlain, for nearly 100 years the North moved on and the South built monuments to their anger.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Soldiers coming together is common.

Now if we can get civilians to come together . . . . .

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

I think this is just race babble.

Yes, race issues have never gone away, but I don think we solve this by lacerating wounds that have healed.

They had healed? I think people still flying confederate flags says otherwise.

 

[BradStevens]

I don't disagree. What he did was great. But to understand history we should know ALL of it.

Reconstruction is a big part of US History. Lincolns assination destroyed any chance of reconciliation. Andrew Johnson was a peice of shit. Set us back by 20 years. When Grant became president we finally started to fix things.

You need to know anything about Reconstruction, hit up my kid. He just finished his first quarter on ONLY that subject.

 

[Indianaftw]

Been reading some American History lately. I am again struck by the last weeks of the Civil War and the immediate aftermath until the day Lincoln died.

Lincoln was relentless and even ruthless in preserving the Union and by that time was equally relentless in ending slavery. Grant destroyed Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln never reigned in Sherman in his bone crushing march through the South and annihilation of Johnson’s forces. If any three men deserved celebration in our history, it would be Lincoln Grant and Sherman. None of them celebrated. Grant, being highly respectful of Lee humbly met him and provided generous terms of surrender, fed the confederates and Chamberlain saluted in surrender. Sherman was even more magnanimous with Johnson and his forces. Sherman and Johnson became best life long friends. Lincoln’s triumphant appearance in the Confederate Capital, Richmond, was a humble 2 mile walk though the rubble to Davis’ office. Lincoln refused to use the word ”traitor” as he spearheaded amnesty and pardons for southern fighters. Despite one of the most brutal wars in history, what emerged was a United States that soon became the envy of the world in terms of economic and political power. Thanks to Lincoln who brought us together and died truly a man of the people, by the people and for the people.

That was then. This is now. As I read about the melting down of the magnificent statue of Lee on Traveler, and the comments of how melting that statue will lead to a unified nation and more perfect Union, I wonder WTF happened. Now we speak of the Confederates in terms of traitors as we obliterate all evidence of their existence.. Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman showed us what unification really meant. It included mutual respect and even . . . .love. We’ve lost the lovin’ feeling.

View embedded media

Mtg just brought it back...

 

[VanPastorMan]

And we have more good news, Fort Gordon is now Fort Eisenhower. Ike deserves a Fort far more than Gordon.

We named more forts, and built more monuments, to Confederates than to Union. I don't care about monuments at battlefields. But we know the South went crazy building monuments in the early 1900s to push the Lost Cause Myth. They were erected as an F you on public lands and using public money to maintain.

Confederate Statues Were Never Really About Preserving History

In total, at least 830 Confederate monuments have been constructed across the U.S. Most were not built immediately after the Civil War. They were installed decades later, mostly in Southern states, when disenfranchised Black Americans’ civil rights were aggressively under attack.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

For some reason only memorials to Confederates were built. George Thomas was a very capable Union general from Virginia. The good people who live in VA never built him a memorial, none. 27,000 Virginians fought for the Union. If everyone is concerned for all the soldiers, why didn't Virginia care about those 27,000 (6000 were Black, so that can be explained in 1900). The Lost Cause was real, even if some seem to think no one believes it today. We shouldn't celebrate the Lost Cause Myth.

I will protest for the right of CoH or anyone to display a rebel flag or build their own statue to Lee. But I don't think they have any good purpose on public ground. No more than a giant statue to Jesus or Mohammad or Buddha should be on public ground.

The only difference in the religious leaders you cite is that Jesus Christ has had a major influence on this country. Many of the Founders were followers of his. We have had a couple of large revivals in our history which helped with the quality of life. In the church we have songs like, "Revive Us Again" which point to these past blessings.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Mtg just brought it back...

View embedded media

Wtf.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Is it really so impossible to accept that maybe between 1900 and 1930 the children and grandchildren of Confederates built monuments like these to espouse the lost cause myth? It has nothing to do with Chamberlain, for nearly 100 years the North moved on and the South built monuments to their anger.

It isn’t impossible to accept that at all. But my response is so what?

The war was prompted by two things, slavery and secession. Jackson was dead set against secession, but strongly pro-slavery. If he hadn’t been such a strong pro- union voice, the civi war probably would have been fraught 30 years earlier at a time when the South May have won. He wasn’t the only one, many northerners were of a similar ilk, (those who supported tge Missouri compromise and then the Kansas/Nebraska Act) ) let the south have slaves but keep the union.

And if you are suggesting that the northerners accepted freed slaves as equals, think again. Just cuz many found the whole concept of slavery abhorrent didn’t mean that those same people saw freed slaves as equals.

I didn’t want to muddy my point in this thread with this argument. But I believe you are mistaken in the ways I mentioned. And I’m not a big fan of the so-called lost cause myth. I think that is a construct used to mask northern racism.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Mtg just brought it back...

View embedded media

Anything in a no piece?

 

[Cthulhu85]

Mtg just brought it back...

View embedded media

Not bad from the neck down.

 

[Indianaftw]

Wtf.

I swear thats ai. I saw it and was like no way she would post something like that. But as such it was interesting so...

 

[IUCrazy2]

I swear thats ai. I saw it and was like no way she would post something like that. But as such it was interesting so...

It is AI. It is a parody account.

 

[Indianaftw]

It is AI. It is a parody account.

I know it's not her account. Amazing job on the pic though.

 

[IUCrazy2]

So my take on this, whether you agree or not, there are people in the country who feel that was part of their heritage. They were told that statue was going to get put into a museum. Instead it was taken out to an undisclosed location, melted down, and a high definition video of the melting down process was done. If they felt it would make people mad enough that they had to keep the location and business who did the melting down secret, why would they tape it and why would they release that video?

This was all done with the intent to rub those people's noses in it. Yay progressives. You're so forward thinking, you are so much better than everyone. You had to make sure everyone knew of your victory and rub your opponents faces in it.

The reason you see so much affinity between Islamists and Progressives on Palestine right now is because the same religious fervor backs each of them. It isn't enough that they win. Their superiority is so sacrosanct they feel it is their obligation to take what is important to their enemies and turn it into monuments of their conquest.

I am sure they convinced some borderline bigoted people to totally change their minds by releasing a video like that. Win those hearts and minds. Morons.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I know it's not her account. Amazing job on the pic though.

Nice boobs either way.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I've done some ancestry stuff. My family has been here since the 1680s. Came from Ireland and England. Several ancestors fought for the CSA in North Carolina units. Made their way to Southern Indiana in the 1880s.

I've had ancestors that fought on the revolution on both sides.

My family on my dad's mother's side came from Sweden in the 1860s and settled in Nebraska. My grandpa and grandma met in San Francisco before he left for Korea.

I guess what I'm getting at is we are all Americans with our own history and better start getting along.

Oh,I also had a great something grandpa that responded to Morgan's raid in Corydon on the union side.

 

[Cthulhu85]

It isn’t impossible to accept that at all. But my response is so what?

The war was prompted by two things, slavery and secession. Jackson was dead set against secession, but strongly pro-slavery. If he hadn’t been such a strong pro- union voice, the civi war probably would have been fraught 30 years earlier at a time when the South May have won. He wasn’t the only one, many northerners were of a similar ilk, (those who supported tge Missouri compromise and then the Kansas/Nebraska Act) ) let the south have slaves but keep the union.

And if you are suggesting that the northerners accepted freed slaves as equals, think again. Just cuz many found the whole concept of slavery abhorrent didn’t mean that those same people saw freed slaves as equals.

I didn’t want to muddy my point in this thread with this argument. But I believe you are mistaken in the ways I mentioned. And I’m not a big fan of the so-called lost cause myth. I think that is a construct used to mask northern racism.

Southern Indiana had slaves. Mostly in Gibson and Knox County. New York was second to Charleston in the slave trade because that's where the ships came in.

 

[Cthulhu85]

It isn’t impossible to accept that at all. But my response is so what?

The war was prompted by two things, slavery and secession. Jackson was dead set against secession, but strongly pro-slavery. If he hadn’t been such a strong pro- union voice, the civi war probably would have been fraught 30 years earlier at a time when the South May have won. He wasn’t the only one, many northerners were of a similar ilk, (those who supported tge Missouri compromise and then the Kansas/Nebraska Act) ) let the south have slaves but keep the union.

And if you are suggesting that the northerners accepted freed slaves as equals, think again. Just cuz many found the whole concept of slavery abhorrent didn’t mean that those same people saw freed slaves as equals.

I didn’t want to muddy my point in this thread with this argument. But I believe you are mistaken in the ways I mentioned. And I’m not a big fan of the so-called lost cause myth. I think that is a construct used to mask northern racism.

The match that lit the civil war was westward expansion.

You have bleeding Kansas and the fight over Oklahoma territory. The congress wouldn't allow slavery in New territories and the southerners lost their shit.

 

[hoot1]

Been reading some American History lately. I am again struck by the last weeks of the Civil War and the immediate aftermath until the day Lincoln died.

Lincoln was relentless and even ruthless in preserving the Union and by that time was equally relentless in ending slavery. Grant destroyed Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia. Lincoln never reigned in Sherman in his bone crushing march through the South and annihilation of Johnson’s forces. If any three men deserved celebration in our history, it would be Lincoln Grant and Sherman. None of them celebrated. Grant, being highly respectful of Lee humbly met him and provided generous terms of surrender, fed the confederates and Chamberlain saluted in surrender. Sherman was even more magnanimous with Johnson and his forces. Sherman and Johnson became best life long friends. Lincoln’s triumphant appearance in the Confederate Capital, Richmond, was a humble 2 mile walk though the rubble to Davis’ office. Lincoln refused to use the word ”traitor” as he spearheaded amnesty and pardons for southern fighters. Despite one of the most brutal wars in history, what emerged was a United States that soon became the envy of the world in terms of economic and political power. Thanks to Lincoln who brought us together and died truly a man of the people, by the people and for the people.

That was then. This is now. As I read about the melting down of the magnificent statue of Lee on Traveler, and the comments of how melting that statue will lead to a unified nation and more perfect Union, I wonder WTF happened. Now we speak of the Confederates in terms of traitors as we obliterate all evidence of their existence.. Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman showed us what unification really meant. It included mutual respect and even . . . .love. We’ve lost the lovin’ feeling.

View embedded media

CoH, perchance, is the book to which you refer entitled Lincoln and the Fight for Peace ?

​

 

[CO. Hoosier]

CoH, perchance, is the book to which you refer entitled Lincoln and the Fight for Peace ?

​

No.

Amazon.com

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It isn’t impossible to accept that at all. But my response is so what?

The war was prompted by two things, slavery and secession. Jackson was dead set against secession, but strongly pro-slavery. If he hadn’t been such a strong pro- union voice, the civi war probably would have been fraught 30 years earlier at a time when the South May have won. He wasn’t the only one, many northerners were of a similar ilk, (those who supported tge Missouri compromise and then the Kansas/Nebraska Act) ) let the south have slaves but keep the union.

And if you are suggesting that the northerners accepted freed slaves as equals, think again. Just cuz many found the whole concept of slavery abhorrent didn’t mean that those same people saw freed slaves as equals.

I didn’t want to muddy my point in this thread with this argument. But I believe you are mistaken in the ways I mentioned. And I’m not a big fan of the so-called lost cause myth. I think that is a construct used to mask northern racism.

The north had terrible hatred, more directed at Irish and Germans due to their being more of them. The NY draft riot was because Irish believed emancipated slaves would move to NY and slide ahead of the Irish on the social stratification. We may have done away with titles, but everyone has a social order they were in based on their parentage.

I agree we should do better at accepting. But your arguments are always LIBERALS should be more accepting, conservatives are perfect the way they are. I agree 100% that many liberals have their issues, I am from a racist, redneck, Scotch-Irish background. I completely agree there are some liberals not accepting of poor Whites, all are lumped together. Heck, I agreed with Goat that I think MAGA as an adjective has become an insult and should be dropped here.

But when gays ask for acceptance, trans ask for acceptance, people who prefer "they" ask for acceptance, it isn't liberals slamming the door. I bet Cthulhu (the poster, not the deity) and I could hang and be good pals. At the same point, I can't figure out why he was offended he can't use "retard" (and assumed it was a liberal who complained about that word and "short bus"). In the interest of harmony, if a conservative finds a word offensive I am all in favor of dropping it (Drumf was dropped here). But I don't like it being a one way street (we couldn't say Drumf, but libtard is used daily).

If we want to have the world JLC was suggesting when he ordered the salute, it isn't only liberals who need to show respect the other way (and I fully realize they don't). That same respect has to come back to us libtards.

JLC's home is a great visit, I have been twice as he is a hero of mine. I literally drove from his home to Little Round Top.

Maybe we should tell Blacks to suck it up and respect monuments TO slavery. If we do that, maybe I should construct monuments to multiple pronouns as I am sure you would gladly accept them.

 

[Cthulhu85]

The north had terrible hatred, more directed at Irish and Germans due to their being more of them. The NY draft riot was because Irish believed emancipated slaves would move to NY and slide ahead of the Irish on the social stratification. We may have done away with titles, but everyone has a social order they were in based on their parentage.

I agree we should do better at accepting. But your arguments are always LIBERALS should be more accepting, conservatives are perfect the way they are. I agree 100% that many liberals have their issues, I am from a racist, redneck, Scotch-Irish background. I completely agree there are some liberals not accepting of poor Whites, all are lumped together. Heck, I agreed with Goat that I think MAGA as an adjective has become an insult and should be dropped here.

But when gays ask for acceptance, trans ask for acceptance, people who prefer "they" ask for acceptance, it isn't liberals slamming the door. I bet Cthulhu (the poster, not the deity) and I could hang and be good pals. At the same point, I can't figure out why he was offended he can't use "retard" (and assumed it was a liberal who complained about that word and "short bus"). In the interest of harmony, if a conservative finds a word offensive I am all in favor of dropping it (Drumf was dropped here). But I don't like it being a one way street (we couldn't say Drumf, but libtard is used daily).

If we want to have the world JLC was suggesting when he ordered the salute, it isn't only liberals who need to show respect the other way (and I fully realize they don't). That same respect has to come back to us libtards.

JLC's home is a great visit, I have been twice as he is a hero of mine. I literally drove from his home to Little Round Top.

Maybe we should tell Blacks to suck it up and respect monuments TO slavery. If we do that, maybe I should construct monuments to multiple pronouns as I am sure you would gladly accept them.

The problem with today's liberals is they hide behind the demoshit party because they are really communists.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The problem with today's liberals is they hide behind the demoshit party because they are really communists.

Ironic in a thread espousing how we should come together.

But since you are determined to be a jerk, the next time you sing Horst-Wessel-Lied ask yourself how it ties into the American unity CoH wants.

See how damn easy it is to make these insults, Herr Cthulhu?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

But your arguments are always LIBERALS should be more accepting,

Liberals are more willing than conservatives to conspicuously display their liberalism through protests, demonstrations, disruptions, and other behavior designed to draw attention to themselves and their various causes. Liberals present more opportunities to criticize them which, of course, is their iintent.

Maybe we should tell Blacks to suck it up and respect monuments TO slavery.

I don’t think we have any monuments or place names honoring slavery. While I understand the argument about some of that, I also think much of the offense is contrived, overstated, and opportunistic. Blacks still suffer from many different social economic issues. None of that involves statues or names of people you don’t even know but for the demonstrations.

maybe I should construct monuments to multiple pronouns as I am sure you would gladly accept them.

I’ll take responsibility for the confusion. I don’t think one way or the other about monuments. I criticize the idea that changing names or destroying monuments will unify us or make black lives better. That is at best virtue signaling or at worst weak pathetic thinking. Throwing Lee’s statue into a furnace, which prompted my OP, is particularly silly.

 

[Cthulhu85]

Ironic in a thread espousing how we should come together.

But since you are determined to be a jerk, the next time you sing Horst-Wessel-Lied ask yourself how it ties into the American unity CoH wants.

See how damn easy it is to make these insults, Herr Cthulhu?

Wow. You're calling me a Nazi.

I wasn't insulting anyone.
When hillary called us deplorables, and obama called us Bible and gun clingers is when I started hating the democrat party.

I don't capitalize for a reason. I have no respect for them.

 

[hoosboot]

Wow. You're calling me a Nazi.

I wasn't insulting anyone.
When hillary called us deplorables, and obama called us Bible and gun clingers is when I started hating the democrat party.

I don't capitalize for a reason. I have no respect for them.

The problem with today's liberals is they hide behind the demoshit party because they are really communists.

I guess what I'm getting at is we are all Americans with our own history and better start getting along.

🤔

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Wow. You're calling me a Nazi.

I wasn't insulting anyone.
When hillary called us deplorables, and obama called us Bible and gun clingers is when I started hating the democrat party.

I don't capitalize for a reason. I have no respect for them.

Liberals and "demoshit" are communist? I am far from the most liberal here, but I am liberal. I never wanted to be a Democrat but one group thought Donald Trump was a bright idea. So in both cases, you called me a communist.

Are there Democrats who are communist, sure. Are there Republicans that are fascist, sure.

The enemy I see is anyone not willing to work together. I often criticize progressives who don't seek compromise, and of course same for populist Republicans. There is exactly a 0 probability either side is 100% right on everything. Frankly, a 0% chance their policy is 100% correct on any one issue, any policy could be improved.

CoH and I have a semantic debate on the founding. I completely agree there had to be a compromise between slave holders and abolitionists. If those two groups can hold their nose and negotiate, Trump supporters and Biden supporters should be able to.

 

[Cthulhu85]

Liberals and "demoshit" are communist? I am far from the most liberal here, but I am liberal. I never wanted to be a Democrat but one group thought Donald Trump was a bright idea. So in both cases, you called me a communist.

Are there Democrats who are communist, sure. Are there Republicans that are fascist, sure.

The enemy I see is anyone not willing to work together. I often criticize progressives who don't seek compromise, and of course same for populist Republicans. There is exactly a 0 probability either side is 100% right on everything. Frankly, a 0% chance their policy is 100% correct on any one issue, any policy could be improved.

CoH and I have a semantic debate on the founding. I completely agree there had to be a compromise between slave holders and abolitionists. If those two groups can hold their nose and negotiate, Trump supporters and Biden supporters should be able to.

So I got a bit fired up for a minute. My apologies.

I don't dislike individuals. My issue is with the established parties. They are unreasonable because most of them seek power and thats all they desire. Are some representatives honest and have good intentions? I'm sure there are a few.

I old enough to have grown up with the radio and 3 TV channels. The 24 hr news cycle and social media have done irrevocable damage to our society.

 

[Indianaftw]

So I got a bit fired up for a minute. My apologies.

Jeez man that would have earned me a 2 week timeout. You and Mark got a Thang going on?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

So I got a bit fired up for a minute. My apologies.

I don't dislike individuals. My issue is with the established parties. They are unreasonable because most of them seek power and thats all they desire. Are some representatives honest and have good intentions? I'm sure there are a few.

I old enough to have grown up with the radio and 3 TV channels. The 24 hr news cycle and social media have done irrevocable damage to our society.

I too apologize for responding as I did.

We, as a people, need to stop following social media that only tells us what we want to hear. That is true left or right. It starts with us.

 

[BradStevens]

So my take on this, whether you agree or not, there are people in the country who feel that was part of their heritage. They were told that statue was going to get put into a museum. Instead it was taken out to an undisclosed location, melted down, and a high definition video of the melting down process was done. If they felt it would make people mad enough that they had to keep the location and business who did the melting down secret, why would they tape it and why would they release that video?

This was all done with the intent to rub those people's noses in it. Yay progressives. You're so forward thinking, you are so much better than everyone. You had to make sure everyone knew of your victory and rub your opponents faces in it.

The reason you see so much affinity between Islamists and Progressives on Palestine right now

Jeez man that would have earned me a 2 week timeout. You and Mark got a Thang going on?

Bribing Mark is easy. Like any cop, he loves donuts.

 

[Univee2]

Bribing Mark is easy. Like any cop, he loves donuts.

They sell donuts in The People’s Republic of Bloomington?

Who knew?

 

[twenty02]

Liberals and "demoshit" are communist? I am far from the most liberal here, but I am liberal. I never wanted to be a Democrat but one group thought Donald Trump was a bright idea. So in both cases, you called me a communist.

Are there Democrats who are communist, sure. Are there Republicans that are fascist, sure.

The enemy I see is anyone not willing to work together. I often criticize progressives who don't seek compromise, and of course same for populist Republicans. There is exactly a 0 probability either side is 100% right on everything. Frankly, a 0% chance their policy is 100% correct on any one issue, any policy could be improved.

CoH and I have a semantic debate on the founding. I completely agree there had to be a compromise between slave holders and abolitionists. If those two groups can hold their nose and negotiate, Trump supporters and Biden supporters should be able to.

That's mild compared with what he posted this morning. He's mentally ill and should be red flagged

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Ironic in a thread espousing how we should come together.

But since you are determined to be a jerk, the next time you sing Horst-Wessel-Lied ask yourself how it ties into the American unity CoH wants.

See how damn easy it is to make these insults, Herr Cthulhu?

But he's not wrong, you just don't like that fact.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

They sell donuts in The People’s Republic of Bloomington?

Who knew?

THey are vegan flavored. It's just not the same anymore.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

That's mild compared with what he posted this morning. He's mentally ill and should be red flagged

Reoccurring yeast infection I see. Whip from the front to the back, front to the back every time.

 

[twenty02]

Reoccurring yeast infection I see. Whip from the front to the back, front to the back every time.

Spoken from a lot of experience?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Reading the board and how much pure anger and hatred seen it makes one think we need free mental health care.

 

[UncleMark]

Bribing Mark is easy. Like any cop, he loves donuts.

There better be cash in the bottom of that bag.