Daily Show on Critical Race Theory

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I'm more thinking of the likes of providing providing free college for 30 years.

There are many theories why there are big gaps. Almost universally people like to point to education as the solution without recognizing that the expense is a massive road block which has led to generation after generation having to take different paths.

When you don't believe school is an option, how seriously are you going to take schooling?

Especially when you can make major money doing something like dealing so it's presented as an available career choice.

The other issue I hear about is the monopoly effect. Meaning sure, things are more equal now but what are the success rates of joining a monopoly game two hours after it started when most things have already been purchased (the whole family wealth question)?

Therefore do something radical to give a generation a real advantage. Make college free for 30 years for African Americans and see how that influences the wealth gap.

Free college for anybody, regardless of race and socioeconomic status, won’t do anything to fix the terrible ROI of college right now. Giving free classes on Afro-American studies or Art or some other liberal arts majors isn’t going to move any wealth gap needle.

provide millions into STEM scholarships for minorities and I’ll listen. Blanket tuition is super dumb.

 

[larsIU]

We waste time on this bull shit while the Chinese laugh their asses off and churn out millions of engineering students

Please tell me you aren't pining for the brutal efficiency of the Chinese bureaucracy that turns out those students (and gymnasts, runners, swimmers, etc, etc, etc).

We're a Western Liberal Democracy. Even worse.....federalism. In the fast paced, take no prisoners era of governance we're entering globally, we're screwed.

We should probably keep spending on the military and hope to keep everybody at bay.

 

[bawlmer]

Because it wasn’t America? It was a collection of tribes. What’s your point?

i don’t mean that to be snarky, I mean that to show that is a tangent that is completely meaningless.

Because suggesting we have nothing to learn from people who survived on this land for centuries before Europeans arrived is the epitome of Euro-centrism.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Because suggesting we have nothing to learn from people who survived on this land for centuries before Europeans arrived is the epitome of Euro-centrism.

At the risk of what? I still fail to see your point.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I don’t know what you think this means, but it doesn’t mean anything to me. I don’t know of any school that regularly teaches American continental history. And why would they?

Indiana has requirements that history be taught, http://ecs.force.com/mbdata/mbstcpr...also required to,to graduate from high school..

I assume that in that US history class minorities and women are mentioned less often than White men. But some of you have been through it since I have. My daughters largely did not need help with history assignments.

 

[bawlmer]

It does nothing to address the problems that prevent kids from staying in school. Without addressing the conditions precedent it’s a meaningless carrot. And honestly tommy dirt poor blacks in the hood who do well in school already have opps for free college

But it would make a huge difference to create wealth for a generations of Black working class families.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Indiana has requirements that history be taught, http://ecs.force.com/mbdata/mbstcprofancg?rep=CIP16ST&st=Indiana#:~:text=Schools are also required to,to graduate from high school..

I assume that in that US history class minorities and women are mentioned less often than White men. But some of you have been through it since I have. My daughters largely did not need help with history assignments.

Marv I’m really confused as to how you’re conflating US history with what happened before the US.

 

[mcmurtry66]

But it would make a huge difference to create wealth for a generations of Black working class families.

It presupposes they will go. It’s putting the cart before the horse. The cost of college isn’t dispositive. Creating the foundation and infrastructure to get to college is the issue

 

[bawlmer]

At the risk of what? I still fail to see your point.

The suggestion was that Washington and Jefferson deserved to be studied more than native American cultures and leaders. If the point is to understand the culture of the United States, then I'd agree with the suggestion. But to make a blanket statement that knowing about Washington and Jefferson are more important to living our lives than understanding the cultures and people who lived here for centuries is debatable.

 

[bawlmer]

It presupposes they will go. It’s putting the cart before the horse. The cost of college isn’t dispositive. Creating the foundation and infrastructure to get to college is the issue

Admittedly, I presuppose Black kids want to go to college. There's data suggesting college degrees are actually more highly valued by Black families. Also, data shows that Black graduates face more debt (and higher interest rates) after graduation. If we're talking about wealth accumulation, it's hard to think of a better public investment than free college.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The suggestion was that Washington and Jefferson deserved to be studied more than native American cultures and leaders. If the point is to understand the culture of the United States, then I'd agree with the suggestion. But to make a blanket statement that knowing about Washington and Jefferson are more important to living our lives than understanding the cultures and people who lived here for centuries is debatable.

I am only pointing out that schools teach US history, per state requirements usually, and that post-dates colonial America.

I would also be interested in a debate on whether we can extract significant value from deep dives into the tribal history pre-dating the US but that’s for another time.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Admittedly, I presuppose Black kids want to go to college. There's data suggesting college degrees are actually more highly valued by Black families. Also, data shows that Black graduates face more debt (and higher interest rates) after graduation. If we're talking about wealth accumulation, it's hard to think of a better public investment than free college.

Targeted, free college. Some degrees are completely worthless and students of all shapes, sizes, creeds, and races still pursue them vigorously and will even more so if “free.”

 

[mcmurtry66]

Admittedly, I presuppose Black kids want to go to college. There's data suggesting college degrees are actually more highly valued by Black families. Also, data shows that Black graduates face more debt (and higher interest rates) after graduation. If we're talking about wealth accumulation, it's hard to think of a better public investment than free college.

Imo it’s not desire it’s that many are already screwed by 12, 13 years old. Gangbangers would shock most people. They’re junior high kids

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Marv I’m really confused as to how you’re conflating US history with what happened before the US.

I am not. Native Americans have lived inside the US since the US was formed. We made treaties, we created reservations, we fought wars. Look at my state's name, Indiana and it's capital, Indianapolis. North and South Dakota are both named for a tribe. Illinois was named for a group of tribes.

Native Americans are part of US history as are Blacks. Our states Florida and then Texas to California came to us from Spain or Mexico. When we think of people coming to America to escape religious persecution in England, that is not at all why people came to those states or even the Louisiana Purchase states.

America is the history of pluralism. Sure, it is fun to poke fun at Louisiana for following Spanish law, but it is part of America.

We brought in Chinese to build our rail system. Our history is pluralism is my point. Not, as 1776 put it, Franklin electrified the ground and out sprang Washington on his horse and the 3 of them rode off and won the war.

Large sections of the Midwest spoke German, as did an entire corps of the Army of the Potomac. Yet I hear our forefathers were all non hyphenated Americans who spoke English. It doesn't explain the dozens of German newspapers that existed up until WW1.

We are a great nation. We are better than just about anyone at equality (from what I read). It is all amazing. But we ALL deserve credit. To quote Blazing Saddles, even the Methodists.

 

[HooDatGuy]

I am not. Native Americans have lived inside the US since the US was formed. We made treaties, we created reservations, we fought wars. Look at my state's name, Indiana and it's capital, Indianapolis. North and South Dakota are both named for a tribe. Illinois was named for a group of tribes.

Native Americans are part of US history as are Blacks. Our states Florida and then Texas to California came to us from Spain or Mexico. When we think of people coming to America to escape religious persecution in England, that is not at all why people came to those states or even the Louisiana Purchase states.

America is the history of pluralism. Sure, it is fun to poke fun at Louisiana for following Spanish law, but it is part of America.

We brought in Chinese to build our rail system. Our history is pluralism is my point. Not, as 1776 put it, Franklin electrified the ground and out sprang Washington on his horse and the 3 of them rode off and won the war.

Large sections of the Midwest spoke German, as did an entire corps of the Army of the Potomac. Yet I hear our forefathers were all non hyphenated Americans who spoke English. It doesn't explain the dozens of German newspapers that existed up until WW1.

We are a great nation. We are better than just about anyone at equality (from what I read). It is all amazing. But we ALL deserve credit. To quote Blazing Saddles, even the Methodists.

As consequential American figures arise when teaching through the timeline of American history they should be noted, regardless of gender or race. Consequentiality can be debated but emphasizing Sacagawea more than Washington when teaching through the timeline in the name of pluralism is wrong.

How many High School students could tell you who Richard Loving is? I bet most have heard of MLK. Should we emphasize Richard Loving more in schools? White contributions to the civil rights movement are often glossed over after all.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Targeted, free college. Some degrees are completely worthless and students of all shapes, sizes, creeds, and races still pursue them vigorously and will even more so if “free.”

It doesn't have to be college, tradesman training is great. Heck, money for entrepreneurs instead if that makes sense.

Free trade school or Associate degrees. Frankly I am not sure STEM degrees shouldn't be free to everyone anyway. we have fallen way behind.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

You think we have a completely fair and balanced recording of American history? I suspect Washington and Jefferson are still mentioned more through 12 years of school than all native Americans combined.

My last experience with that was Indiana state history at my son's elementary school. I thought it was well done.

 

[TommyCracker]

It does nothing to address the problems that prevent kids from staying in school. Without addressing the conditions precedent it’s a meaningless carrot. And honestly tommy dirt poor blacks in the hood who do well in school already have opps for free college

I don't believe there are free scholarships into the best schools that are available. There are partial and that's nice but like Florida's current unemployment system, actually getting those scholarships that cover a part of the expenses are not the friendliest.

I'm saying for thirty years you take Sanders free college idea and apply it to the African American community. If you're Ivy league worthy than cool, it's covered. If you're Bedford College Center worthy than cool...you're covered.

Now's the opportunity to lift up out of the vicious cycle.

COH is constantly espousing that everything the crazy libs do is BS and the solution is education.

Let's see if he's right.

Let's see if the black community is right that they just need a break of an opportunity.

I'm all ears in this discussion. What would you propose because all I hear is do nothing, things are good, people just need to be accountable for themselves and they'll figure it out. Stop govt meddling.

I don't see any change coming from that (if that is what you're suggesting).

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Only if one thinks the most important thing about America is the colonies' separation from Britain and the formation of our government. We basically don't know what we don't know about the people who inhabited this land before the Europeans arrived.

This response makes 0 sense. How are you going to study something about which 'nobody knows anything'?

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don't believe there are free scholarships into the best schools that are available. There are partial and that's nice but like Florida's current unemployment system, actually getting those scholarships that cover a part of the expenses are not the friendliest.

I'm saying for thirty years you take Sanders free college idea and apply it to the African American community. If you're Ivy league worthy than cool, it's covered. If you're Bedford College Center worthy than cool...you're covered.

Now's the opportunity to lift up out of the vicious cycle.

COH is constantly espousing that everything the crazy libs do is BS and the solution is education.

Let's see if he's right.

Let's see if the black community is right that they just need a break of an opportunity.

I'm all ears in this discussion. What would you propose because all I hear is do nothing, things are good, people just need to be accountable for themselves and they'll figure it out. Stop govt meddling.

I don't see any change coming from that (if that is what you're suggesting).

I told you what I propose. Money. UBI. Get moms and people cash. Kids are dealin and hustlin bc they need money. Mom doesn’t have it. College isn’t on their radar. Tomorrow is on their radar

 

[TommyCracker]

. . . And do you provide free college to LeBron James's kids and not some white kid out of Appalachia whose family is so far below the poverty line they can't see it? Don't you open this up and don't you means test it?

Wasn't it Chief Justice Roberts who said something to the effect that the way to fight discrimination is not with more discrimination? The whole CRT/Antiracism carpet-bombing won't produce anything but more division, enmity and discrimination.

Yup, for 30 years doesn't matter.

This would be my version of 'reparations'.

As I've been told the white kid from Appalachia can get free college if they make good grades (which I don't believe is as simplistic as that) so they are good, they must be dumb, lazy and have horrible parents which is why they are poor and uneducated Appalachii.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I'm more thinking of the likes of providing providing free college for 30 years.

There are many theories why there are big gaps. Almost universally people like to point to education as the solution without recognizing that the expense is a massive road block which has led to generation after generation having to take different paths.

When you don't believe school is an option, how seriously are you going to take schooling?

Especially when you can make major money doing something like dealing so it's presented as an available career choice.

The other issue I hear about is the monopoly effect. Meaning sure, things are more equal now but what are the success rates of joining a monopoly game two hours after it started when most things have already been purchased (the whole family wealth question)?

Therefore do something radical to give a generation a real advantage. Make college free for 30 years for African Americans and see how that influences the wealth gap.

Any AA kid who succeeds in school has the world by the balls. The problem is cultural.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I don't believe there are free scholarships into the best schools that are available. There are partial and that's nice but like Florida's current unemployment system, actually getting those scholarships that cover a part of the expenses are not the friendliest.

I'm saying for thirty years you take Sanders free college idea and apply it to the African American community. If you're Ivy league worthy than cool, it's covered. If you're Bedford College Center worthy than cool...you're covered.

Now's the opportunity to lift up out of the vicious cycle.

COH is constantly espousing that everything the crazy libs do is BS and the solution is education.

Let's see if he's right.

Let's see if the black community is right that they just need a break of an opportunity.

I'm all ears in this discussion. What would you propose because all I hear is do nothing, things are good, people just need to be accountable for themselves and they'll figure it out. Stop govt meddling.

I don't see any change coming from that (if that is what you're suggesting).

That's a horrible idea, but if you had to do it, it's even more horrible doing it based on race. It's idiotic, frankly, and would never end well.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I am not. Native Americans have lived inside the US since the US was formed. We made treaties, we created reservations, we fought wars. Look at my state's name, Indiana and it's capital, Indianapolis. North and South Dakota are both named for a tribe. Illinois was named for a group of tribes.

Native Americans are part of US history as are Blacks. Our states Florida and then Texas to California came to us from Spain or Mexico. When we think of people coming to America to escape religious persecution in England, that is not at all why people came to those states or even the Louisiana Purchase states.

America is the history of pluralism. Sure, it is fun to poke fun at Louisiana for following Spanish law, but it is part of America.

We brought in Chinese to build our rail system. Our history is pluralism is my point. Not, as 1776 put it, Franklin electrified the ground and out sprang Washington on his horse and the 3 of them rode off and won the war.

Large sections of the Midwest spoke German, as did an entire corps of the Army of the Potomac. Yet I hear our forefathers were all non hyphenated Americans who spoke English. It doesn't explain the dozens of German newspapers that existed up until WW1.

We are a great nation. We are better than just about anyone at equality (from what I read). It is all amazing. But we ALL deserve credit. To quote Blazing Saddles, even the Methodists.

Nice post. This is why I keep saying African American slavery is a legacy of the British. We didn’t invent it. We benefited while from the moment of our conception; we debated ending it. I think the original sin thing is a gross oversimplification and gives our kids the wrong message about the debate and ignores the fact that we in fact ended slavery in some states/colonies. Ending slavery in all states wasn’t a simple thing assuming we wanted to keep the colonies united. It finally took a bloody war. I think Lincoln summed up the United message very well in the Gettysburg Address.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

It does nothing to address the problems that prevent kids from staying in school. Without addressing the conditions precedent it’s a meaningless carrot. And honestly tommy dirt poor blacks in the hood who do well in school already have opps for free college.

The first place such money should be directed is for the care and development of kids from 0-5. Second place, from 5-10. THAT is where the achievement gap starts and where it can be fixed.

Admittedly, I presuppose Black kids want to go to college. There's data suggesting college degrees are actually more highly valued by Black families. Also, data shows that Black graduates face more debt (and higher interest rates) after graduation. If we're talking about wealth accumulation, it's hard to think of a better public investment than free college.

A better public investment would be in learning and care for children 0-10.

 

[Univee2]

That's a horrible idea, but if you had to do it, it's even more horrible doing it based on race. It's idiotic, frankly, and would never end well.

That dog wouldn't hunt, that's for sure. And then there's that constitutional thing.

 

[Spartans9312]

I don't believe there are free scholarships into the best schools that are available. There are partial and that's nice but like Florida's current unemployment system, actually getting those scholarships that cover a part of the expenses are not the friendliest.

I'm saying for thirty years you take Sanders free college idea and apply it to the African American community. If you're Ivy league worthy than cool, it's covered. If you're Bedford College Center worthy than cool...you're covered.

Now's the opportunity to lift up out of the vicious cycle.

COH is constantly espousing that everything the crazy libs do is BS and the solution is education.

Let's see if he's right.

Let's see if the black community is right that they just need a break of an opportunity.

I'm all ears in this discussion. What would you propose because all I hear is do nothing, things are good, people just need to be accountable for themselves and they'll figure it out. Stop govt meddling.

I don't see any change coming from that (if that is what you're suggesting).

If everything is free does it mean as much?

 

[TommyCracker]

Free college for anybody, regardless of race and socioeconomic status, won’t do anything to fix the terrible ROI of college right now. Giving free classes on Afro-American studies or Art or some other liberal arts majors isn’t going to move any wealth gap needle.

provide millions into STEM scholarships for minorities and I’ll listen. Blanket tuition is super dumb.

I totally agree with you on liberal arts degrees and tend to side with Steve Forbes back when he ran. He basically said if you want to make money, you need an area of study that makes money.

He got booed, but I agree with him.

Second part of this is I was a Kelley guy but for my humanities I took African American history courses cause I was always fascinated. Anyway, I'm in a large group class and I'm probably one of four white people in a class of 100. The teacher made us stand and announce our majors. The overwhelming majority were liberal arts or social science majors. I made the point that as a business major (cerca 1995) if I had to give the demographics off my head of business 101 classes it would be 55% male, 45% female. 60% white. 25% Asian, 10% Indian and maybe 5% African American.

So if you want the business jobs that make money, you need to get a business degree'.

Short story long, I agree with you that there are a lot of worthless degrees.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Yup, for 30 years doesn't matter.

This would be my version of 'reparations'.

As I've been told the white kid from Appalachia can get free college if they make good grades (which I don't believe is as simplistic as that) so they are good, they must be dumb, lazy and have horrible parents which is why they are poor and uneducated Appalachii.

You've stumbled upon the best non-racial example of why your idea is so dumb. You could put a trillion $ into Appalachia, and 30 years from now it would still be Appalachia. It's the culture.

You think Caucasians have always loved Jewish Americans and Asian-Americans? What are their secrets?

 

[TommyCracker]

I told you what I propose. Money. UBI. Get moms and people cash. Kids are dealin and hustlin bc they need money. Mom doesn’t have it. College isn’t on their radar. Tomorrow is on their radar

So a giant government welfare program?

I'm actually not against a MBI (minimum basic income that was proposed by Friedman and MLK) but UBI for everyone doesnt make much sense to me.

I do like the idea of a govt debit card much more than free govt checks. That way you can better control what people use the card on and have it better stimulate the economy.

This has been called trickle up economics.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Yup, for 30 years doesn't matter.

This would be my version of 'reparations'.

As I've been told the white kid from Appalachia can get free college if they make good grades (which I don't believe is as simplistic as that) so they are good, they must be dumb, lazy and have horrible parents which is why they are poor and uneducated Appalachii.

I'm not Appalachian, but am from a long and notorious line of poor, white trash and grew up in such an area. Of the people I grew up with that still live there, many are dumb, many were lazy, and many had horrible parents.

 

[TommyCracker]

If everything is free does it mean as much?

It's not free to everyone so it's not 'free'.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I don't believe there are free scholarships into the best schools that are available. There are partial and that's nice but like Florida's current unemployment system, actually getting those scholarships that cover a part of the expenses are not the friendliest.

I'm saying for thirty years you take Sanders free college idea and apply it to the African American community. If you're Ivy league worthy than cool, it's covered. If you're Bedford College Center worthy than cool...you're covered.

Now's the opportunity to lift up out of the vicious cycle.

COH is constantly espousing that everything the crazy libs do is BS and the solution is education.

Let's see if he's right.

Let's see if the black community is right that they just need a break of an opportunity.

I'm all ears in this discussion. What would you propose because all I hear is do nothing, things are good, people just need to be accountable for themselves and they'll figure it out. Stop govt meddling.

I don't see any change coming from that (if that is what you're suggesting).

Wow....sounds like a Great Society......too bad we've never tried that before.

Don't you think elementary education is the more important issue? Fix that first and get back to us.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

COH is constantly espousing that everything the crazy libs do is BS and the solution is education.

Let's see if he's right.

Education is vital. But free college in and of itself is no answer. Not when we are talking about different standards in order to achieve equity. The meaningful education i speak of begins in primary school.

 

[Spartans9312]

Wow....sounds like a Great Society......too bad we've never tried that before.

Don't you think elementary education is the more important issue? Fix that first and get back to us.

The most important issue is parenting.
Graduate, get a job and marry before you have kids.
That formula will keep you out of poverty...98% of the time

 

[mcmurtry66]

So a giant government welfare program?

I'm actually not against a MBI (minimum basic income that was proposed by Friedman and MLK) but UBI for everyone doesnt make much sense to me.

I do like the idea of a govt debit card much more than free govt checks. That way you can better control what people use the card on and have it better stimulate the economy.

This has been called trickle up economics.

Yeah a debit card. No problem. Block out booze smokes and the lotto. I too prefer guaranteed with a means test but too many will bitch and there will be fraud at the threshold. Has to be ubi.

Gov has failed for decades. Let the people have their shot

 

[TommyCracker]

You've stumbled upon the best non-racial example of why your idea is so dumb. You could put a trillion $ into Appalachia, and 30 years from now it would still be Appalachia. It's the culture.

You think Caucasians have always loved Jewish Americans and Asian-Americans? What are their secrets?

If you were king, how would you lift up the African American community?

I'm sensing some native American casino envy in these posts (that's where the govt as a give back has allowed reservations to be independent, so dirt poor natives started building casinos and raking in the dough, many dividing it equally within the tribe. Now of course we are envious of that and want in).

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I totally agree with you on liberal arts degrees and tend to side with Steve Forbes back when he ran. He basically said if you want to make money, you need an area of study that makes money.

He got booed, but I agree with him.

Second part of this is I was a Kelley guy but for my humanities I took African American history courses cause I was always fascinated. Anyway, I'm in a large group class and I'm probably one of four white people in a class of 100. The teacher made us stand and announce our majors. The overwhelming majority were liberal arts or social science majors. I made the point that as a business major (cerca 1995) if I had to give the demographics off my head of business 101 classes it would be 55% male, 45% female. 60% white. 25% Asian, 10% Indian and maybe 5% African American.

So if you want the business jobs that make money, you need to get a business degree'.

Short story long, I agree with you that there are a lot of worthless degrees.

Now we're getting somewhere.

If you think about it, collective AA memory may not be conducive to mercantile pursuits. Back in the day, the merchants were the slave traders, and AAs were the products. Look at how Korean merchants are so despised in the AA community.

That's the reason that Jack Kemp's 'enterprise zones' would have been the better way to go. Basically, give AAs a chance to get a piece of the action. Viewing yourself as a perpetual victim is not healthy.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

If you were king, how would you lift up the African American community?

I'm sensing some native American casino envy in these posts (that's where the govt as a give back has allowed reservations to be independent, so dirt poor natives started building casinos and raking in the dough, many dividing it equally within the tribe. Now of course we are envious of that and want in).

No envy here. I've been watching this crap since 1966 or so. How old are you?

 

[mcmurtry66]

No envy here. I've been watching this crap since 1966 or so. How old are you?

It’s just rinse and repeat the same bullshit. The same cities and the same communities