This Brookings study found that Blacks have higher outstanding debt levels (thus more interest) 4 years after graduation.
Daily Show on Critical Race Theory
- Thread starter TommyCracker
- Start date
Sure, but are you ignoring some of the other factors (from your link)?
- Higher default rate
- Higher delinquency rate
- Less likely to graduate
- For-profit grad school enrollment
- Racial pay bias
However, if you think about lending to students with higher default rates, higher delinquency rates, higher drop out rates, etc., it screams more risk. The fact that students are able to obtain the same rates for undergrad loans regardless of how they fall into these risk categories goes a long way towards trying to level the playing field.
My professor in college who taught me all there is to know about the Civil War Reconstruction Era and slavery was Howard K. Beale. Beale was a disciple of Charles A., Beard.
At the time. few if any, argued with Beale's and Beard's explanation of history. Being a young conservative Republican, i had to live with the idea that Northern industrialists who were mostly Republicans dictated what happened in the South and only pretended to be concerned with the civil rights of the freed slaves.
Now after six decades I have learned the Beale/'Beard teachings have been pretty much debunked. I say "pretty much debunked" because it is hard to be completely wrong.
Consequently as I read about DEI, SEL, and CRT along with all those who oppose these teachings, I wonder what people will believe in future decades and will our political leanings continue to influence our beliefs.
At the time. few if any, argued with Beale's and Beard's explanation of history. Being a young conservative Republican, i had to live with the idea that Northern industrialists who were mostly Republicans dictated what happened in the South and only pretended to be concerned with the civil rights of the freed slaves.
Now after six decades I have learned the Beale/'Beard teachings have been pretty much debunked. I say "pretty much debunked" because it is hard to be completely wrong.
Consequently as I read about DEI, SEL, and CRT along with all those who oppose these teachings, I wonder what people will believe in future decades and will our political leanings continue to influence our beliefs.
When it comes to public schools, for a very long time Texas was the elephant in the room. Texas ordered all textbooks at the state level, no other state did that. It was the grail for any company wanting to sell textbooks, so books were written to specifically sell in Texas. If they didn't, they were still good for elsewhere. Any southern state would accept that pretense, and northern states didn't care so they wouldn't exclude textbooks for that teaching.
Until 2018 Texas taught the many causes belief. In 2018 they changed that to slavery as the primary cause of the civil war with contributory factors such as state's rights. I have no problem with that option. But it wasn't taught until recently. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...h-slavery-was-main-cause-civil-war-180970851/
A lot of people have been taught the Lost Cause Myth. This article mentions a Pew Poll that shows 48% of Americans believe State's Rights was the primary cause, 38% said slavery. https://www.jacksonville.com/news/n...ivil-war-taught-school-depends-where-you-live.
Really both POVs are true. The war started because some states thought it was their right to continue the practice of slavery. The addition of new territories threatened the balance of power around that topic.
So it was a states rights issue....about slavery.
As long as slavery is in the top line, I'm not quibbling.
At the time there were battles in congress over the homestead act, over land grant universities, and over the transcontinental railroad. The south opposed all three over state's rights. Many of the southern states issued proclamations when they left, those that did prominently mentioned slavery. None mentioned those other state's rights issues they had been fighting.
I am fairly conservative, I am against teaching the CRT stuff to kids, but I have zero problem with the idea that the Civil War was fought over slavery. Nor do I have an issue with saying that slavery was one of those topics that was a real sticking point that got set aside in order to keep the country together, until they just could not set it aside any longer.
I think there is this misperception that people against CRT/DEI/SEL/SEEL are against teaching history. I do not think most of us are. Nor are we wanting people to be discriminated against. What we are against is the idea that we need to slice the world up into oppressors and oppressed and do these struggle sessions s with children where we want them to focus on their "whiteness" or their "non-whiteness". It is a useless endeavor. It does not prepare them for the world after school. At a certain point, no matter what struggles you are facing for whatever reason, if you have the tools at your disposal, you can succeed here. Your race does not determine your outcomes anymore. It absolutely did in the past, but not now.
I agree about race not determine results. But that also does not mean Whites do not have it easier (we can debate how much easier). However we teach that message works for me.
Some of the imaging events are more about empathy. I never knew what it was like to be the only member of my race in my classroom. Thinking about it as an adult it probably was harder for the minorities because they are more likely to face that. Even now I don't know if the barriers on interracial dating are as down as we think. They might be. Pew says 9% still say interracial marriage is bad, I think we can agree not everyone would tell an interviewer the truth on that.
2. Public views on intermarriage
As intermarriage grows more prevalent in the United States, the public has become more accepting of it. A growing share of adults say that the trend
www.pewresearch.org
We have no control over how we enter this world. We have total control over how we leave it. Some have inherent advantages and some don’t. The advantages and disadvantages don’t necessarily follow race. Instructing about inherent benefits or burdens about circumstances of birth inhibits personal development. Talking about institutional racism (assuming it really exists) creates a comfort zone around lackadaisical effort and is counter productive preparing youngsters for their future.I agree about race not determine results. But that also does not mean Whites do not have it easier (we can debate how much easier). However we teach that message works for me.
Some of the imaging events are more about empathy. I never knew what it was like to be the only member of my race in my classroom. Thinking about it as an adult it probably was harder for the minorities because they are more likely to face that. Even now I don't know if the barriers on interracial dating are as down as we think. They might be. Pew says 9% still say interracial marriage is bad, I think we can agree not everyone would tell an interviewer the truth on that.
2. Public views on intermarriage
As intermarriage grows more prevalent in the United States, the public has become more accepting of it. A growing share of adults say that the trend
You have to admit, in some instances, it creates an incredibly driven person determined to buck the system and succeed in spite of the odds.
Agreed. Jackie Robinson suffered horrible treatment in some quarters. He was driven. Yet his burden allowed others to show support and he made life a little easier for players like Mays, Banks, Aaron, Doby and countless others. It takes committed snd driven people to do many things, including busting up segregation.
Any kind of bigoted behavior tends to be self taught.
If we whitewash our history and call it something like 'American exceptionalism' than that leads to future generations getting the same POV that has gotten passed down over and over, repeating the cycle (otherwise the dreaded 'systemic' claims).
It's human nature to be inquisitive.
I think the question is how do we teach sensitive topics because ignoring them has led to ignorance and continued bigoted stereotypes.
Like I said before, my understanding of CRT is for Caucasians. That's powerful because Caucasians are the majority and can impact change (or choose not too).
Whites have it easier in what context? Skin color is just one measure. My kids do not have it easier than Sasha and Malia Obama or Willow and Jaden Smith. My kids probably have it easier than inner city Chicago kids.I agree about race not determine results. But that also does not mean Whites do not have it easier (we can debate how much easier). However we teach that message works for me.
Some of the imaging events are more about empathy. I never knew what it was like to be the only member of my race in my classroom. Thinking about it as an adult it probably was harder for the minorities because they are more likely to face that. Even now I don't know if the barriers on interracial dating are as down as we think. They might be. Pew says 9% still say interracial marriage is bad, I think we can agree not everyone would tell an interviewer the truth on that.
2. Public views on intermarriage
As intermarriage grows more prevalent in the United States, the public has become more accepting of it. A growing share of adults say that the trend
All that being said, say it is true that white kids have it easier. What is gained by teaching that to school kids. It denigrates the accomplishments of some and belittles the accomplishments of others. And it does it solely on race.
Those against interracial marriage...so what? This idea that you are going to get 100% of the people to all view things the same is just wrong. People still believe the earth is flat. At a certain point we should stop worrying about outliers. What is worth more to any student, learning science, math, and reading/writing or learning a victim hierarchy? My argument is that if a victim hierarchy does exist, learning those other things will do far more to close the gap then any of this CRT and CRT adjacent theory.
To help your point, Tim Scott says being pulled over for driving while Black is real, so let us assume it is. If we teach people we are a colorblind society they will not believe DWB is real. It can't be real, we have moved past it. So the problem continues because we assume the person reporting the problem is at fault.
Graduate, get a job, and get married before having kids. This will give you and your family the best chance for success.
It is not a hard formula to figure out. Some of the answers to the hardest problems have easy answers.
Whitewashing is a triggered topic of mine. The idea that doing nothing solves issues makes no sense to me, because we all know if we're not learning something in school, we're learning it from the community.
And if anything this past year has made abundantly clear, our communities are not the best source of information.
Case in point, I'm definitely not a scholar. I'm a college grad that went through the Kelley school and made okay grades, enough to get hired.
So I'm watching the Watchmen series on HBO and the opening scene is a really disturbing one that's set in Tulsa 1921. It's a huge klan massacre of a black business community. They show educated black business men being lynched, dragged alive behind cars to death and an airplane flying over dropping firebombs on buildings.
A little black kid hides in a crate and watches his family get lynched.
It shapes his perspective as he becomes on of the Watchmen (but wears a cover over his head and puts on white makeup, so the viewer thinks he's white).
Quite a set up of a make believe super hero series!
Turns out, that actually happened. I have never heard of it. After that show aired I wasn't alone, a huge majority of viewers thought it was fiction.
60 minutes just did a report on the Tulsa massacre of 1921 and there are life long Tulsa residents who had no idea that it happened.
It wasn't just whitewashed, it was erased.
That is controlling a narrative and propagating ignorance.
So yeah, doing nothing and pretending it doesn't exist doesn't solve anything and just propagates ignorance (like me who thought 1921 Tulsa was a plot point).
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Highlighting it doesn’t solve anything either; it just raises awareness. Addressing the issues, the same issues that have been kicked around for 50 years, is what’s needed. But we don’t get that - we get shame, virtue signaling, and finger pointing.
When is the vetting of programs and agencies going to occur. Outcomes. I’m anti “defund the police” but it’s the single program-ish thing that I can think of to come out of the last year. F it try it in some places. Try UBI. When are discussions going to be had, bills introduced, agencies and programs transformed for real change as opposed to the lip service we always get of that statue sends a bad message.
The failing cities are blue. And I don’t write that as an attack. I believe their efforts are sincere at the local level, I know they are, but they are always just kicking the same can. Dems win, raise taxes, new funding flows through to states and cities to the same failing agencies that have been around forever.
I agree bigotry is a learned condition. I also agree an honest straightforward discussion about race is useful. But we are fundamentally dishonest about race. Republicans are in denial or ignorant about many instances of different treatment while Democrats lie about “Jim crow on steroids” or claim Tim Scott is a token black which lies are intended to advance political agendas.
I don’t see much use in hammering slavery and the strong feelings it provokes. This kind of teaching is what keeps conflicts alive that are based on events of 100’s years past. I continue to be dismayed why we can find national purpose in remembering George Floyd’s murder but we have never had a national celebration about the end of slavery. I think that would be a unifying event.
These issues are obviously above my pay grade, way above my pay grade and intellect.
The first step imo is understanding. How can we make things better if we don't recognize, empathize and have an understanding.
It starts with empathy, I believe.
'Defund the police' is basically about empathy IMO.
How do you heal and help communities that are distrustful of 'the systems'?
I believe the first step is empathy by the majority.
CRT, to me, is about creating empathy.
That's a really, really good observation on your last point.
It never occured to me.
Great thought.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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Juneteenth - Wikipedia
Of course. Where’s the White House celebration? Why isn’t it a national holiday? Why is Biden going to Tulsa to remember the slaughter of 100’s of blacks, or he lies about Jim Crow laws, but he never celebrates that we ended slavery? Rhetorical question. I know the answer and so do you.Y’all have never heard of Juneteenth?Juneteenth - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
I don't know the answer. The bill has been introduced the past several years, it has a ton of sponsors.
Lawmakers Reintroduce Bill To Make Juneteenth National Holiday
Four lawmakers have reintroduced the Juneteenth National Independence Day Act which would make Juneteenth a national holiday.
www.blackenterprise.com
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Yeah, I understand. As I posted that, I started thinking about how to celebrate it with my kids and don't know if I could pull it off with neighbors. I agree with you that it should be a national holiday.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I'd just like to say to all of you who are participating in this thread with a sense of tolerance and in the spirit of explaining where you are coming from, I am very grateful for your posts. It's hard to have these conversations where I live without fear of judgment so I really appreciate you (the vast majority) who are hashing this out without snark or knee-jerk reaction.
I also apologize if I've posted too much. I'm living in an area where this stuff is front and center in its most extreme form and it is affecting my children so I've read and listened to a ton of literature on the subject. If I've been overbearing, it's because I'm constantly trying to convince myself that I'm not off base, the extremists are. The posts here are really validating, even if I get frustrated. Thanks to you all.
I also apologize if I've posted too much. I'm living in an area where this stuff is front and center in its most extreme form and it is affecting my children so I've read and listened to a ton of literature on the subject. If I've been overbearing, it's because I'm constantly trying to convince myself that I'm not off base, the extremists are. The posts here are really validating, even if I get frustrated. Thanks to you all.
That point is more about Blacks living in a White world. In small town Indiana, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians are different. It has to be tough to walk into a classroom as the only (fill in blank here). It gets harder when these kids get older and suddenly 10% of the school (probably more given I doubt everyone was honest in the poll) automatically say no to dating. Part of CRT involves such imagining, putting one's self in someone else's place. We cannot correct everything by fiat, but understanding how things we take for granted are not the same for others makes sense.
Again, who cares? You know what I want my kids understanding? Science. And the more of this social science bull shit gets pushed in school, the worse students get at actual academic endeavors.
Nobody gives 2 shits about this stuff in the real world. No one. The only bills that get paid with this are people like Robin Diangelo who have brilliantly exploited black people to make millions. My children's school system started pushing this garbage about 4 years ago. The school system dropped from Top 3 in the state to barely clinging to the top 15.
Kids need to learn the Golden Rule. Period. Leave the race hustle to adults.
The answer, at least in my general area, is ALWAYS fireworks. Preferably after 11pm.
I think you do, but you don’t recognize it. Why would the Biden Administration find bringing slavery to the New World inspiring in any sense of the word? Why does the NYT‘s 1619 Project, and the beginning of slavery, get so much traction while the end of slavery has comparatively none? The answer lies in the quest to acquire and keep political influence and power. Not to solve a problem.
Jackie Robinson, ending Jim Crow, Brown v The Board of Education, The 60’s Civil Rights laws and more were all about ending segregation. All of these things were working. We were making progress and coming together. Now the objective is not to end segregation. Instead the objective is to end racism through divisive ideas like the 1619 Project and teaching about whiteness, white society, white privilege, and all whites are racist. The practical effect is that racial issues will be with us in perpetuity. Some people want that. The basis for this is as old as civilization; dividing people into groups is how certain people keep or acquire power influence and control.
We can’t celebrate events like ending slavery because that is counterproductive to perpetual division.
Ron Johnson killed the bill last year. Tell me how he fits into your theory.
Sen. Ron Johnson Blocked Bill Making Juneteenth National Holiday
Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson blocked a bipartisan effort to make Juneteenth a federal holiday saying it would cost too much.
www.blackenterprise.com
To give COH the benefit of the doubtRon Johnson killed the bill last year. Tell me how he fits into your theory.
Sen. Ron Johnson Blocked Bill Making Juneteenth National Holiday
Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson blocked a bipartisan effort to make Juneteenth a federal holiday saying it would cost too much.www.blackenterprise.com
Pretty sure Ron Johnson is all about perpetual division, hence his killing the bill. To be fair, I have no idea really what Ron Johnson is all about but I'm also pretty sure Ron Johnson doesn't know either. He's just a reactive political animal with a lizard brain that only knows that he must "own the libs".
???Ron Johnson killed the bill last year. Tell me how he fits into your theory.
Sen. Ron Johnson Blocked Bill Making Juneteenth National Holiday
Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson blocked a bipartisan effort to make Juneteenth a federal holiday saying it would cost too much.www.blackenterprise.com
It doesn't and I think ending slavery should be a national holiday.
I don’t understand why the Biden Administration would single out the beginning of slavery as a notable historical event and not give at least equal billing to ending slavery. If the reason isn’t to perpetuate divisiveness for a political purpose, what is your explanation?
I don’t agree with Johnson, but at least he is more understandable than Biden. Biden amplifies slavery’s beginning while ignoring (so far) its end. Johnson does neither.
There are 18 Republicans and 39 Democrats signed onto the bill. That's 57. Three more and the bill can pass the Senate. https://www.rollcall.com/2021/05/20...ral-holiday-these-lawmakers-are-trying-again/
Last year it took Johnson plus at least 39 others to block the bill. I have no idea if the 39 were D or R, don't care. The question is how to get that group of 39 down to 38.
Biden is playing to his base, Johnson to his. In that context both are understandable. Not right. But understandable.
Johnson says he opposes b/c it would cost the government money to have another day of paid leave and proposed offsetting that by subtracting another day of paid leave from another federal holiday.
While I will admit I have no idea what the cost of one day of paid leave for all federal employees looks like I can't imagine it's earth shattering as a % of the overall budget. Additionally his arguments about it costing the economy overall is hogwash b/c (as the article states) only 24% of private companies give MLK day as a holiday,.
Johnson proves there's more ways to virtue signal than just the SJW way.
Meanwhile, a major "con" gets exposed in Idaho...Gotta love the way this guy expresses his disdain for the Idaho Legislature. He's not the first person I've read who has taken them to task for the imbecilic nature of their current session. But he may be the most colorful...
"This year's assault on education in the Idaho Legislature was sparked by a claim that a white student at Boise State University had been demeaned and "forced to apologize for being white."
This allegation came from an unidentified, non-student "community leader" who claimed to have seen a video of the incident on a friend's phone. Among the other claims were that the student had been taunted and called stupid.
This claim — accepted at face value from conservatives and peddled hard by critical-race-theory grifters in Idaho political circles — became an article of faith in the Legislature, which cut BSU's budget, along with other Idaho colleges, in retribution.
Much of this baseless outrage was driven by the Idaho Freedom Foundation, the libertarian, anti-government lobbying organization that drags a significant number of Idaho lawmakers around on a leash."
www.yahoo.com
"The firm interviewed 30 students who took the course, University Foundations, as well as instructors and others. They reached out repeatedly to offer any student who had taken that course a chance to provide information, either anonymously or using their name. They contacted the original complainant, who would not, or could not, provide corroboration.
No one reported being forced to apologize for their race or being taunted or insulted, and no one reported seeing anything like the incidents that drove the Legislature crazy.
It's almost as if the whole thing were a political con."
"This year's assault on education in the Idaho Legislature was sparked by a claim that a white student at Boise State University had been demeaned and "forced to apologize for being white."
This allegation came from an unidentified, non-student "community leader" who claimed to have seen a video of the incident on a friend's phone. Among the other claims were that the student had been taunted and called stupid.
This claim — accepted at face value from conservatives and peddled hard by critical-race-theory grifters in Idaho political circles — became an article of faith in the Legislature, which cut BSU's budget, along with other Idaho colleges, in retribution.
Much of this baseless outrage was driven by the Idaho Freedom Foundation, the libertarian, anti-government lobbying organization that drags a significant number of Idaho lawmakers around on a leash."
Shawn Vestal: The tale of critical-race theory and the bullied Boise State student falls apart
May 26—This year's assault on education in the Idaho Legislature was sparked by a claim that a white student at Boise State University had been demeaned and "forced to apologize for being white." This allegation came from an unidentified, non-student "community leader" who claimed to have seen a...
"The firm interviewed 30 students who took the course, University Foundations, as well as instructors and others. They reached out repeatedly to offer any student who had taken that course a chance to provide information, either anonymously or using their name. They contacted the original complainant, who would not, or could not, provide corroboration.
No one reported being forced to apologize for their race or being taunted or insulted, and no one reported seeing anything like the incidents that drove the Legislature crazy.
It's almost as if the whole thing were a political con."
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