Buffett Hits Trump's Business Acumen: 'A Monkey' Could Have Done Better

[meridian]

I don't recollect Buffet coming out this strong on politics.

I know, I know, I am quoting NewsMax, but here's the summary.

On tax return:
“Now I’ve got news for him. I'm under audit, too, and I would be delighted to meet him anyplace, anytime, before the election."

“I'll bring my tax return, he can bring his tax return ... and let people ask us questions about the items that are on there.

On Bankruptcy:
Mocked Trump’s claims of business success, noting that Trump has declared bankruptcy six times with businesses financed with borrowed money.

When Trump sold stock directly to the public was in 1995 (the only time):
"If a monkey had thrown a dart, at the stock page, the monkey on average would've made 150 percent. But the people that believed in him, who listened to his siren song, ended up losing well over 90 cents in the dollar. They got back less than a dime,"

"In the next 10 years, the company loses money every year, every single year, and he takes out $44 million in compensation during that period,"

Trump's reaction on Khizr Khan's speech:
“No member of the Buffett family has gone to Iraq or Afghanistan. No member of the Trump family has gone to Iraq or Afghanistan. We’ve both done extremely well during this period and our families haven’t sacrificed anything.

How in the world can you stand up to a couple of parents who lost a son and talk about sacrificing because you were building a bunch of buildings?"

 

[mjvcaj]

Mocked Trump’s claims of business success, noting that Trump has declared bankruptcy six times with businesses financed with borrowed money.

A bit hypocritical from the King of Hypocrisy. Buffett has always been a super liberal. Anyone that has paid attention to life in the past few decades would know this.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/energy...etts-big-mistake-ends-up-in-bankruptcy-court/

 

[twenty02]

A bit hypocritical from the King of Hypocrisy. Buffett has always been a super liberal. Anyone that has paid attention to life in the past few decades would know this.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/energy...etts-big-mistake-ends-up-in-bankruptcy-court/

Those aren't really comparable things....Buffett made an investment with BH funds, and the investment flopped. He lost $837M....that's about 0.2% of the value of BH ($360B). I'm pretty sure BH's shareholders will be ok with it, considering the long term return.

Trump took a company public one time, and it was a massive failure...losing money every single year for the 10 years it existed, and fully wiping out shareholders in the end.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Those aren't really comparable things....Buffett made an investment with BH funds, and the investment flopped. He lost $837M....that's about 0.2% of the value of BH ($360B). I'm pretty sure BH's shareholders will be ok with it, considering the long term return.

Trump took a company public one time, and it was a massive failure...losing money every single year for the 10 years it existed, and fully wiping out shareholders in the end.

Do you really think mjvcaj doesn't know that? He deals in that stuff.

 

[Harry Hondo]

A bit hypocritical from the King of Hypocrisy. Buffett has always been a super liberal. Anyone that has paid attention to life in the past few decades would know this.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/energy...etts-big-mistake-ends-up-in-bankruptcy-court/

And he's always been kinder and more respected because of his enormous success and apparent lack of ego. You might even call him the anti-Trump.

If that's the definition of a rich liberal, then sign me up!

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

A bit hypocritical from the King of Hypocrisy. Buffett has always been a super liberal. Anyone that has paid attention to life in the past few decades would know this.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/energy...etts-big-mistake-ends-up-in-bankruptcy-court/

Yeah, as much as I admire Buffett's investing acumen -- and how could you not? -- he's often hypocritical.

One day, he's pining for higher taxes on rich people, the next he's arranging one of the biggest tax inversions in history (that being the Burger King deal).

So which is it? Should rich people pay more taxes or should they move their corporate entities out of the country to minimize their tax bills?

Buffett also made a very public gripe about tax hikes on private jets. And, not only does he fly exclusively on private jets, he's a major shareholder of NetJets.

Not at all unrelated to this is the fact that the vast majority of taxes Buffett pays are paid on corporate returns, not his personal returns -- which allows him to utter the blatant half-truth that he pays a higher rate than his secretary...which is only true if we ignore all the taxes paid by Berkshire, Coke, P&G, etc. He's always taken very little in the way of salary -- which is, yep, the most common way for people like him to minimize their tax bills.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

And he's always been kinder and more respected because of his enormous success and apparent lack of ego. You might even call him the anti-Trump.

If that's the definition of a rich liberal, then sign me up!

You think Warren Buffett lacks an ego? Uh, no. He may not be ostentatious in his demeanor, but that's not the same thing.

If you read Snowball (which was a great book, BTW), I don't think you'd say that about him.

 

[meridian]

A bit hypocritical from the King of Hypocrisy. Buffett has always been a super liberal. Anyone that has paid attention to life in the past few decades would know this.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/energy...etts-big-mistake-ends-up-in-bankruptcy-court/

Yes, Buffett has been an unabashed liberal. What has it got to do with his pointing out Trump's ridiculous statements. Furthermore, Buffett is not running for the presidency; Trump is. Furthermore, where does this "King of Hypocrisy" come from, besides the fact that you don't like him?

 

[Harry Hondo]

You think Warren Buffett lacks an ego? Uh, no. He may not be ostentatious in his demeanor, but that's not the same thing.

If you read Snowball (which was a great book, BTW), I don't think you'd say that about him.

Still, considering he's likely 10 times wealthier than Trump, I bet his ego is 100 times poorer.

 

[mjvcaj]

Those aren't really comparable things....Buffett made an investment with BH funds, and the investment flopped. He lost $837M....that's about 0.2% of the value of BH ($360B). I'm pretty sure BH's shareholders will be ok with it, considering the long term return.

Trump took a company public one time, and it was a massive failure...losing money every single year for the 10 years it existed, and fully wiping out shareholders in the end.

Come on man. I know you hate Trump as much as anyone on this board, but you know that I wasn't comparing the success of the public companies each represents, nor their business careers.

I specifically laughed at the "Mocked Trump’s claims of business success, noting that Trump has declared bankruptcy six times with businesses financed with borrowed money.", given the fact that Buffett's participation in one of the largest (not sure if it is still the largest) LBOs had plenty of similarities.

I like Buffett's business approach and wish that more people were longer-term focused like he is. Those are the people that helped build this country, not the short-term investors. Nowadays, that includes many people, including myself.

Frankly, neither is as impressive to me as true self-made guys like Larry Ellison.

 

[mjvcaj]

Yes, Buffett has been an unabashed liberal. What has it got to do with his pointing out Trump's ridiculous statements. Furthermore, Buffett is not running for the presidency; Trump is. Furthermore, where does this "King of Hypocrisy" come from, besides the fact that you don't like him?

Because of what he says vs. what he does. Guy likes to "talk the talk" far more often.

 

[mjvcaj]

And he's always been kinder and more respected because of his enormous success and apparent lack of ego. You might even call him the anti-Trump.

If that's the definition of a rich liberal, then sign me up!

There is no question he is more respected in business and certainly on a personal level. But, that doesn't mean he's not a hypocrite and he's a self-avowed liberal, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

[mjvcaj]

Do you really think mjvcaj doesn't know that? He deals in that stuff.

I'm just a simple man, picking corn in Iowa. Don't mind me.

 

[meridian]

Do you really think mjvcaj doesn't know that? He deals in that stuff.

If so, why does he say what he says?

 

[Harry Hondo]

There is no question he is more respected in business and certainly on a personal level. But, that doesn't mean he's not a hypocrite and he's a self-avowed liberal, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

I'm guessing you think all liberals are hypocrites, so I really don't place much stock in your opinion on this.

 

[mjvcaj]

I'm guessing you think all liberals are hypocrites, so I really don't place much stock in your opinion on this.

Assumptions really do make an ass out of you.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Assumptions really do make an ass out of you.

I was guessing not assuming.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

One day, he's pining for higher taxes on rich people, the next he's arranging one of the biggest tax inversions in history (that being the Burger King deal).

So which is it? Should rich people pay more taxes or should they move their corporate entities out of the country to minimize their tax bills?

I have no idea what Buffett's view on corporate income taxes is, but there is no hypocrisy here. It's perfectly reasonable to believe that individual income taxes on the upper classes should increase (for example, by taxing investment income the same as wages), while also believing that our corporate income taxes are too high or otherwise unfair to companies (for example, the "topping off" of foreign income tax rates that encourages inversions and the parking of earned income overseas).

 

[hootch1]

Yeah, as much as I admire Buffett's investing acumen -- and how could you not? -- he's often hypocritical.

One day, he's pining for higher taxes on rich people, the next he's arranging one of the biggest tax inversions in history (that being the Burger King deal).

So which is it? Should rich people pay more taxes or should they move their corporate entities out of the country to minimize their tax bills?

Buffett also made a very public gripe about tax hikes on private jets. And, not only does he fly exclusively on private jets, he's a major shareholder of NetJets.

Not at all unrelated to this is the fact that the vast majority of taxes Buffett pays are paid on corporate returns, not his personal returns -- which allows him to utter the blatant half-truth that he pays a higher rate than his secretary...which is only true if we ignore all the taxes paid by Berkshire, Coke, P&G, etc. He's always taken very little in the way of salary -- which is, yep, the most common way for people like him to minimize their tax bills.

Warren offered to compare tax returns with Donald. He, of course will not agree.

Personally, personal tax and corporate are not comparable. I own shares in a number of companies (steadily declining) and many others through multiple mutual funds. My investment expenses as a shareholder are an expense in the investment. I look at tax issues as well as overall returns from a company. (As well as other metrics.). Just as I look at expense ratios and returns for mutual funds which incorporated in mutual returns.

Taxes and returns are investment issues. Just as the current laws on taxation are investment issues. Complaining that someone with a fiduciary responsibility takes advantage of available opportunities even when they may question a particular law is short sighted and possibly a violation of law.

(Of course no one will probably be charged)

 

[meridian]

Because of what he says vs. what he does. Guy likes to "talk the talk" far more often.

Thank you for responding without insult!

 

[mjvcaj]

Thank you for responding without insult!

Time for a new approach. I call it the anti-Rockfish.

 

[twenty02]

Come on man. I know you hate Trump as much as anyone on this board, but you know that I wasn't comparing the success of the public companies each represents, nor their business careers.

I specifically laughed at the "Mocked Trump’s claims of business success, noting that Trump has declared bankruptcy six times with businesses financed with borrowed money.", given the fact that Buffett's participation in one of the largest (not sure if it is still the largest) LBOs had plenty of similarities.

I like Buffett's business approach and wish that more people were longer-term focused like he is. Those are the people that helped build this country, not the short-term investors. Nowadays, that includes many people, including myself.

Frankly, neither is as impressive to me as true self-made guys like Larry Ellison.

I know, we're both finance people, but I like Buffett a lot...he's a tremendous American story, a once in a generation type story. In many ways I am more fascinated with him than someone like Gates, Ellison, Jobs, etc....because he's still such a pillar of American finance decade after decade. The 2008 crisis cemented his legacy, he was as big a player at the table as the US Treasury, in many ways.

I don't know much about his politics, other than he wants higher rates on cap gains (I would assume for high income individuals).

There is some wiggle room there with me, I'm a big proponent of low cap gains taxes, specifically long term...but I don't have an issue with making it a progressive rate structure. The divergence from the regular income tax rates can create some market distortions, IMO, at the higher end.

I've been accumulating real estate for the last 13 years, never divesting. I'm roughly 3 to 4 years away from beginning that divesting process, so I'm very in tune with cap gains tax law, and the planning required to keep things under certain limits, etc..