‘Don’t Say Gay’ Bill - Florida
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Would like to know what evidence the state legislators discovered which led them to believe schools were teaching children anything in regards to sex, sexuality, gender identification, or sexual preference.
The passing of a law prohibiting the teaching of the above sends a message to parents that teachers are engaged in teaching these subjects.
Finally, anyone who questions the passage of the law is then subject to being accused of not wanting parents to have a fundamental role in the education, healthcare and well being of their children, as per Gov. DeSantis who stated the following,
We will continue to recognize that in the state of Florida, parents have a fundamental role in the education, healthcare and well being of their children,"
The passing of a law prohibiting the teaching of the above sends a message to parents that teachers are engaged in teaching these subjects.
Finally, anyone who questions the passage of the law is then subject to being accused of not wanting parents to have a fundamental role in the education, healthcare and well being of their children, as per Gov. DeSantis who stated the following,
We will continue to recognize that in the state of Florida, parents have a fundamental role in the education, healthcare and well being of their children,"
So if your screw up your facts what does that say about your judgments, viewpoints and arguments?
Let me elaborate on my credibility point. IANAL. Reading Slovenian law using Slovenian as my second language is easier than reading laws written here in United States. Furthermore having no training in law, I’m bound to miss the finer points. On the water cooler I’m dependent on lawyers for interpretation. I would rather get multiple viewpoints than only one viewpoint from rockfish or goat, for example. I assume that all of the lawyers here are able to read the statute and at least get the facts of the statute straight. If you guys can’t agree on the facts of the statute, then we all know there’s no hope of any constructive dialogue.
Now that I have actually looked at the text of this bill I can see that Goat is correct, your statement about the bill was almost completely wrong. In fact only one section of the entire bill specifies or limits to third grade and under (unless I missed something).
Some facts are more relevant than others. Whether we are talking about K-2 or K-3 for the Florida statute doesn’t change the argument.
You are not wrong. Yes the statute, like most, is divided into sections. The material part of “don’t say gay” is as I said. Other parts deal with other issues.
So if I have the latest version this is the text:
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3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.
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So it seems there is to be zero “instruction” before fourth grade and from then on only according to age- and developmentally appropriate state standards.
To me the relevant issue is what constitutes instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity? Clearly liberals advocate instruction making multitudinous genders normal whereas conservatives want instruction on gender as binary, male/female.
Complicating this is that all sorts of factors in addition to sexual orientation and gender identity can cause confusion, upset, and distress in people of any age. Teachers are not qualified to sort all these factors out on an individual basis or teach about them in a helpful way for pupils.
What teachers can do is teach about tolerating individual differences and not bullying others for any reason.
The Dems had one platform, and one only, in 2020. "We are not Trump". Look where that got us.
Well, not Trump. Sooooo....it worked?
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It's a win as far as the election goes. Biden wasn't my first choice but when it was down to 2, he was the only choice.
If Republicans wanted to keep the White House, then they should have nominated someone else.
Good comment. Teachers need protection, plus they need clearly expressed policies on what they can teach or even say.
But I doubt that attitudes of "parents" and "the public" are the same. I keep thinking about all those demonstration photos of young kids forced to carry signs supposedly expressing the kids' own controversial political/ social opinions about things little kids never really think about (both left and right issues). Those images distort the true extent of public support for [fill in the blank] left and right issues and are actually nothing more than the opinions of the parents of those kids forced to carry the signs.
And, I have fundamental doubts about the usefulness of polls altogether in today's world. People hang up on telephone pollsters. Hillary was surprised by how much the election results in 2016 differed from her polls and, of course, Trump was surprised by how much the election results in 2020 differed from his polls.
The best poll is the actual election.
The main reason the bill is so triggering might be that some people think 3- and 4-year-olds should definitely be taught that it's OK to have a bonus mom, even when they personally know their biologically male dad, but find themselves living with two women (that they know are women) are in the same bed.
That notion pretty much expands both traditional and non-traditional sex education to all cognizant children starting at age 3. Kids that age aren't stupid, blind or otherwise unable to understaand.
Then, there are now an endless number of alternative alphabet living arrangements, but any bill, panel discussion, post, blog, or other verbalization that actually (or just allegedly) disparages or contradicts or forgets to mention or leaves out or diminishes or just who-knows-what one of these other living arrangements becomes demonized.
Previous notions that private living arrangements are outside politics have gone out the window.
Problem too is that it doesn’t define when it is age appropriate to speak of anything sexual. So a high school seniors parents could file a lawsuit for mentioning and health related sex topic in that students presence. I think we can all agree that those types of discussions r not appropriate for k-3 kids. I’m not sure what is the appropriate age. But I do know this. My sister was an assistant principal in middle school and had a girl or two every year or two who got pregnant. So what the answer is I don’t know. But parents who want to hide their kids heads in the sand and hope it goes away r fooling themselves. Grew up next to a Church of Jesus Christ minister and his family. Very conservative denomination. The two daughters were sexually active early in high school. So clearly their approach wasn’t working. No easy answers but this Florida law is nothing but a political ploy by the extreme right of the GOP. And the extreme left is painting it as something more than it is. Unfortunately common sense has left the stage.
Common sense had indeed left the stage. Sex education in public school was never brought into the classroom in K-3. But sexual confusion is? Kids that age and for several years beyond 3rd grade don’t need to be educated about that.
When addictions, domestic abuse, gangs, smash and grabs, and random acts of violence are such a problem in many young lives, we have much more serious challenges for elementary students than trans-issues.
Thanks MM66. This is indeed an interesting case especially if it led to a state law regarding school administrators and teachers being sued by parents because they don't notify parents about a child's sexual orientation.
Admittedly I could be misreading the Littlejohn case along with the Florida law being discussed in this thread.
You bet. I only skimmed it. Again this law is a disaster, but a "good" law could be useful in providing guidance and protecting teachers
Why is it a disaster?
EXC: School nurse axed for revealing student is on puberty blockers
Kathleen Cataford was suspended by the Hartford Public Schools School District after she posted the comments containing specific and private details about students.
If your 11 year old daughter was being given puberty blockers by the school, with the help of "social workers" or to a lesser extent, if they were even having conversations about this with your child, would you want to know?
And for all the idea that these laws are based on just anecdotal things here and there, there sure seems to he A)a shitload of anecdotes available on a regular basis and B) a whole bunch of teachers losing their shit about not being able to have conversations they supposedly are not having.
If a child is not being abused and put in danger by the parent, a school has no business getting involved in this stuff. Zero. We send our kids to school to learn academic subjects. If this stuff is not needed and is just made up by the right, how do any of the people commenting on this board explain all this?
It's too vague.Why is it a disaster?
EXC: School nurse axed for revealing student is on puberty blockers
Kathleen Cataford was suspended by the Hartford Public Schools School District after she posted the comments containing specific and private details about students.www.dailymail.co.uk
If your 11 year old daughter was being given puberty blockers by the school, with the help of "social workers" or to a lesser extent, if they were even having conversations about this with your child, would you want to know?
And for all the idea that these laws are based on just anecdotal things here and there, there sure seems to he A)a shitload of anecdotes available on a regular basis and B) a whole bunch of teachers losing their shit about not being able to have conversations they supposedly are not having.
If a child is not being abused and put in danger by the parent, a school has no business getting involved in this stuff. Zero. We send our kids to school to learn academic subjects. If this stuff is not needed and is just made up by the right, how do any of the people commenting on this board explain all this?
People don’t understand the ramifications of express or implied government approval of speech. If the authorities tacitly approve instruction about transgenders, asuxuals, pansexuals etc. in kindergarten, government will be unable to restrict instruction about female obedience to brothers and husbands , arranged marriages, maybe polygamy, and a host of other activites that we frown on or don’t practice. Government can’t pick and choose. The only way to stop it is to clearly stop all of it. This is how Florida wrote its law.. Thise who claim the law is about gays only want to bring attention to themselves while ostracizing others. That’s called virtue signaling.
As I said elsewhere, it’s really too bad that we have gotten to the point of needing this legislation. But here we are because zealots must be zealots.
It kind of has to be. From what CoH posted just above down to the idea that just when you think the teaching world (and the left...but I repeat myself) cannot step any further out of their lane, they find a way to.
They ran religion out of the schools for the exact reasons we don't want this being covered in school. Progressivism is a secular cult. It should be treated as such.
CoH, curious as to which states allow children to take puberty blockers without parents consent. Hard to imagine a school counselor giving a child blockers in a state requiring parental consent.Why is it a disaster?
EXC: School nurse axed for revealing student is on puberty blockers
Kathleen Cataford was suspended by the Hartford Public Schools School District after she posted the comments containing specific and private details about students.
If your 11 year old daughter was being given puberty blockers by the school, with the help of "social workers" or to a lesser extent, if they were even having conversations about this with your child, would you want to know?
And for all the idea that these laws are based on just anecdotal things here and there, there sure seems to he A)a shitload of anecdotes available on a regular basis and B) a whole bunch of teachers losing their shit about not being able to have conversations they supposedly are not having.
If a child is not being abused and put in danger by the parent, a school has no business getting involved in this stuff. Zero. We send our kids to school to learn academic subjects. If this stuff is not needed and is just made up by the right, how do any of the people commenting on this board explain all this?
I don’t know of any. I would never advise a school district client that was okay with or without parental consent. The liability exposure is enormous.
Whether a licensed physician prescribes puberty blockers without parental consent is a different matter. But a school shouldn’t be involved.
In some cases I think dispensing such medications could be prosecuted as child abuse.
Oh, it's such a small minority you're worried about.
The bill is for the greater good. It's patriotic to be for the greater good, isn't it? Don't we all need to just go along with it for the greater good?
If u read the attached article u will c that the school is not providing the puberty blockers. Hell they can’t even give an aspirin unless the parents r notified at least that’s the case in Indiana. Trust me. As a parent, my wife and I received many calls from the school nurse asking if they could give r son a Tylenol for a headache. We have multiple teachers and a former principal in r family. U probably have no idea what they put up with from kids and r not allowed to do a thing or say a thing. And btw a lot of parents will not believe their child does anything wrong at school until they c the video. There r always going to b teachers that cross the line one way or another on both sides of the political spectrum. If u don’t believe me google the video of the teacher asking her preschool class who the president is. They say Biden. Then she asks what do we want? They respond just as she taught them. We want him gone. So it goes both ways. Should she b disciplined? What if it was a liberal teacher teaching that about Trump?Why is it a disaster?
EXC: School nurse axed for revealing student is on puberty blockers
Kathleen Cataford was suspended by the Hartford Public Schools School District after she posted the comments containing specific and private details about students.
If your 11 year old daughter was being given puberty blockers by the school, with the help of "social workers" or to a lesser extent, if they were even having conversations about this with your child, would you want to know?
And for all the idea that these laws are based on just anecdotal things here and there, there sure seems to he A)a shitload of anecdotes available on a regular basis and B) a whole bunch of teachers losing their shit about not being able to have conversations they supposedly are not having.
If a child is not being abused and put in danger by the parent, a school has no business getting involved in this stuff. Zero. We send our kids to school to learn academic subjects. If this stuff is not needed and is just made up by the right, how do any of the people commenting on this board explain all this?
Zealots on both sides. I lived in Georgia not long ago and the prosecuted a gay couple for having sex in the privacy of their home. Because that was against the state law. Who do u think wrote that law. Same people who want government to stay out of things unless it’s their particular thing.
C'mon Crazy, the daily mail? You know the mail is a clickbait factory business. It is rated a 1 out of 5 for accuracy. It's basically the British national enquirer.Why is it a disaster?
EXC: School nurse axed for revealing student is on puberty blockers
Kathleen Cataford was suspended by the Hartford Public Schools School District after she posted the comments containing specific and private details about students.
If your 11 year old daughter was being given puberty blockers by the school, with the help of "social workers" or to a lesser extent, if they were even having conversations about this with your child, would you want to know?
And for all the idea that these laws are based on just anecdotal things here and there, there sure seems to he A)a shitload of anecdotes available on a regular basis and B) a whole bunch of teachers losing their shit about not being able to have conversations they supposedly are not having.
If a child is not being abused and put in danger by the parent, a school has no business getting involved in this stuff. Zero. We send our kids to school to learn academic subjects. If this stuff is not needed and is just made up by the right, how do any of the people commenting on this board explain all this?
Secondly I gave this the minimal amount of attention but, putting this chick's name into the twatter verse gets you around 3 posts and 6 mentions.
So I'd dare say this story is fabricated to get you pissed off and to click.
Plus I didn't see anywhere in this fake story that said the school was providing the blockers like what seems to be accused.
This law serves one, maybe two purposes. To embolden a culture war....to virtue signal to that war and 2 (and much more sinister) to plant the seeds in law for more restrictive and autocratic legislation coming after it....hence why it's vague (the whole 'or until deemed appropriate' verbiage).
It's the same shit as the CRT nonsense but I have to admit in the spirit of gamesmanship, it works.
What's next, anti-woke laws? Another thing that can't be defined? Oh wait, yup, Desantis again.
Do we need to combat this shit with anti-conservative white male laws... I'm sorry, 'toxic masculinity' laws?
That's where parents can call out and sue teachers and coaches for displaying 'toxic masculinity' when coaching?
I mean we ALREADY have specific laws that cover specific abuses but... there's an epidemic of vague 'toxic masculinity' and it's getting worse and damaging our children so we need to not only crusade against it, we need laws so parents can report on how coaches are treating their athletes. We need to be able to make and convict based on vague accusations.
If I can rile up enough liberal social justice warriors than I'm sure the Daily Mail will contribute with stories to generate those clicks.
Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?
<b>NRO</b>: Why Haven't Teachers Received Same Scrutiny As Catholic Priests?
www.cbsnews.com
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