What if any person on the USA, can't

[Joe_Hoopsier]

get a fair trial? anywhere? What if you have so many of the population that are just steadfast that their position in their life, is to bring harm to an American patriotic citizen? What if there are controlling powers that can effect the placement of a jury, so that they is always jurors predisposed to vote against that person, regardless of the facts?
What does democracy do at that point?

 

[hoot1]

get a fair trial? anywhere? What if you have so many of the population that are just steadfast that their position in their life, is to bring harm to an American patriotic citizen? What if there are controlling powers that can effect the placement of a jury, so that they is always jurors predisposed to vote against that person, regardless of the facts?
What does democracy do at that point?

Joe, are you a patriotic American who feels a growing majority of your fellow Americans is not interested in pursuing what made America great ?

 

[UncleMark]

Gonna be fun tonight! Cheers!

 

[ButHerEmails]

get a fair trial? anywhere? What if you have so many of the population that are just steadfast that their position in their life, is to bring harm to an American patriotic citizen? What if there are controlling powers that can effect the placement of a jury, so that they is always jurors predisposed to vote against that person, regardless of the facts?
What does democracy do at that point?

Jesus F*****g Christ, you guys are a bunch of f*****g bitches

 

[Bill4411]

This has issue been debated before.

 

[twenty02]

get a fair trial? anywhere? What if you have so many of the population that are just steadfast that their position in their life, is to bring harm to an American patriotic citizen? What if there are controlling powers that can effect the placement of a jury, so that they is always jurors predisposed to vote against that person, regardless of the facts?
What does democracy do at that point?

Your J6 indictment finally come down?

 

[Lucy01]

Jesus F*****g Christ, you guys are a bunch of f*****g bitches

Idiot

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Joe, are you a patriotic American who feels a growing majority of your fellow Americans is not interested in pursuing what made America great ?

Seems to be a loaded/ staged question from you. Maybe that in itself, is evidence to the answer. Do you think that 13 people without any anonymous could be found to give Hunter a "fair" trial?

 

[snarlcakes]

Jesus F*****g Christ, you guys are a bunch of f*****g bitches

Please hold me strong man. Don’t squeeze to hard though, I’m fragile.

 

[Bowlmania]

get a fair trial? anywhere? What if you have so many of the population that are just steadfast that their position in their life, is to bring harm to an American patriotic citizen? What if there are controlling powers that can effect the placement of a jury, so that they is always jurors predisposed to vote against that person, regardless of the facts?
What does democracy do at that point?

Seems to be a loaded/ staged question from you. Maybe that in itself, is evidence to the answer. Do you think that 13 people without any anonymous could be found to give Hunter a "fair" trial?

Please take this in the spirit in which it's given. I'm honestly trying to help.

It's always best to be sober and coherent when posting. Also, not everyone has great writing skills and that's ok. Some of the smartest people I know can't write worth a shit. But if you want to communicate effectively and persuasively on a message board, you've got to be able to write. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. If you can't, you're at a distinct disadvantage.

The good news is there are online sites and programs, some free, that allow you to check a draft for typos, sentence structure errors, and sentences that simply don't make sense. For example, "do you think that 13 people without any anonymous could be found . . . " doesn't make sense.

Also, 12 jurors (and alternates) are empaneled for a criminal trial, not 13. There's a classic movie starring Henry Fonda called "12 Angry Men." It's about an all-male jury deciding a criminal case. You should check it out.

The burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a tough standard. The verdict must be unanimous. If there's just one holdout, it's a hung jury and the case is either retried or the prosecution lets the guy off. The rigorous burden of proof and the fact that the verdict must be unanimous help safeguard the process and keep things on the up and up. We also have a good appellate court system, both at the state and federal levels.

Jury trials take much longer than the 15 minute bench trials on Judge Judy. Speaking of Judge Judy (or Judy Justice, which I believe her streaming show is now called), while she was once a family court judge in New York, she serves as an arbitrator on her show. Being an arbitrator has been much more profitable for Judge Judy than being a family court judge. She's crazy rich.

Your first post in this thread suggests a touch of paranoia, or maybe too much Mark Levin. We have a very good justice system and fair trials remain the rule, not the exception. Of the three branches of government, the judiciary should be the least of your concerns.

 

[twenty02]

Seems to be a loaded/ staged question from you. Maybe that in itself, is evidence to the answer. Do you think that 13 people without any anonymous could be found to give Hunter a "fair" trial?

Hunter isn't going to trial, so no clue what this rant is about. He is pleading guilty.

Most prosecutors want to avoid trial, as getting 12 people to agree to a conviction is quite difficult.

Have you ever served on a jury? I've had the interesting experience to serve twice on criminal trials, including one this year. Both times it was quite a mix of jurors (personalities, backgrounds, education level, race). The instruction you receive from the judge are incredibly detailed, in plain English... and you go in and hash it out.

The one this year was a felony robbery trial, I was 1 of 4, that originally went into the jury room voting guilty (8 not guilty). Everyone hashed out their reasoning and other arguments made were good, and we ended up acquitting a pretty shady character. The prosecutor's case at the end of the day was fairly weak, which I came around agreeing too. Particularly once you parsed the words of the jury instructions.

Waking out of the courthouse I was waiting around and ended up talking to the prosecutor and detective on the case. They said they had a plea deal for a misdemeanor that the defendant was willing to plead guilty for. But they were going for a felony conviction and overplayed their hand, according to their words. I didn't feel great that a scumbag got a walk, but at the end of the day the facts be the facts

 

[BCCHoosier]

Please take this in the spirit in which it's given. I'm honestly trying to help.

It's always best to be sober and coherent when posting. Also, not everyone has great writing skills and that's ok. Some of the smartest people I know can't write worth a shit. But if you want to communicate effectively and persuasively on a message board, you've got to be able to write. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. If you can't, you're at a distinct disadvantage.

The good news is there are online sites and programs, some free, that allow you to check a draft for typos, sentence structure errors, and sentences that simply don't make sense. For example, "do you think that 13 people without any anonymous could be found . . . " doesn't make sense.

Also, 12 jurors (and alternates) are empaneled for a criminal trial, not 13. There's a classic movie starring Henry Fonda called "12 Angry Men." It's about an all-male jury deciding a criminal case. You should check it out.

The burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a tough standard. The verdict must be unanimous. If there's just one holdout, it's a hung jury and the case is either retried or the prosecution lets the guy off. The rigorous burden of proof and the fact that the verdict must be unanimous help safeguard the process and keep things on the up and up. We also have a good appellate court system, both at the state and federal levels.

Jury trials take much longer than the 15 minute bench trials on Judge Judy. Speaking of Judge Judy (or Judy Justice, which I believe her streaming show is now called), while she was once a family court judge in New York, she serves as an arbitrator on her show. Being an arbitrator has been much more profitable for Judge Judy than being a family court judge. She's crazy rich.

Your first post in this thread suggests a touch of paranoia, or maybe too much Mark Levin. We have a very good justice system and fair trials remain the rule, not the exception. Of the three branches of government, the judiciary should be the least of your concerns.

Respect what you are trying to do, but Joe is simply not worth the effort.

 

[ButHerEmails]

Please hold me strong man. Don’t squeeze to hard though, I’m fragile.

I mean, if you really need me to. I’m not here to yuck anyone’s yum. I’m here to help.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

get a fair trial? anywhere? What if you have so many of the population that are just steadfast that their position in their life, is to bring harm to an American patriotic citizen? What if there are controlling powers that can effect the placement of a jury, so that they is always jurors predisposed to vote against that person, regardless of the facts?
What does democracy do at that point?

i think we all realize that Trump tried to overthrow the govt and an election out of patriotism, and stole all those military secrets and refused to give them back, to save them from spies in the govt.

we all realize that Trump has never done anything out of self interest in his whole life, and just the idea of doing so would be beyond repulsive to him..

i hear the govt has already rigged the jury in Trump's trial with 12 Chinese communists who all owe Hunter Biden big bucks for paintings, for which he has agreed to forgive their debt in exchange for finding Trump guilty.

it's literally the most unfair thing in the history of our nation, and Trump is the most wrongfully persecuted individual in the history of the entire world, and probably the entire universe.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

i think we all realize that Trump tried to overthrow the govt and an election out of patriotism, and stole all those military secrets and refused to give them back, to save them from spies in the govt.

we all realize that Trump has never done anything out of self interest in his whole life, and just the idea of doing so would be beyond repulsive to him..

i hear the govt has already rigged the jury in Trump's trial with 12 Chinese communists who all owe Hunter Biden big bucks for paintings, for which he has agreed to forgive their debt in exchange for finding Trump guilty.

it's literally the most unfair thing in the history of our nation, and Trump is the most wrongfully persecuted individual in the history of the entire world, and probably the entire universe.

YOu totally over looked that one time that Trump kicked that dog. It was horrific.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

i think we all realize that Trump tried to overthrow the govt and an election out of patriotism, and stole all those military secrets and refused to give them back, to save them from spies in the govt.

we all realize that Trump has never done anything out of self interest in his whole life, and just the idea of doing so would be beyond repulsive to him..

i hear the govt has already rigged the jury in Trump's trial with 12 Chinese communists who all owe Hunter Biden big bucks for paintings, for which he has agreed to forgive their debt in exchange for finding Trump guilty.

it's literally the most unfair thing in the history of our nation, and Trump is the most wrongfully persecuted individual in the history of the entire world, and probably the entire universe.

Dumb.

 

[hoot1]

Seems to be a loaded/ staged question from you. Maybe that in itself, is evidence to the answer. Do you think that 13 people without any anonymous could be found to give Hunter a "fair" trial?

Joe, my question was loaded to the extent that i was trying to determine why you posted this thread in the first place.

One assumption on my part was you didn't think the January 6th protesters could get a fair trial. Your use of the term "patriot" led me in this direction. Since you answered my question with a question, my line of inquiry took us nowhere.

As to your question about Hunter. Yes, I do think 13 people could be found who haven't drawn any set opinions about Hunter Biden. Hunter may be a big deal on places such as the Water Cooler, but a good many Americans could care less about Hunter.

 

[Lucy01]

i think we all realize that Trump tried to overthrow the govt and an election out of patriotism, and stole all those military secrets and refused to give them back, to save them from spies in the govt.

we all realize that Trump has never done anything out of self interest in his whole life, and just the idea of doing so would be beyond repulsive to him..

i hear the govt has already rigged the jury in Trump's trial with 12 Chinese communists who all owe Hunter Biden big bucks for paintings, for which he has agreed to forgive their debt in exchange for finding Trump guilty.

it's literally the most unfair thing in the history of our nation, and Trump is the most wrongfully persecuted individual in the history of the entire world, and probably the entire universe.

That first paragraph is nothing but a lie. Your third paragraph is dead nuts on.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Dumb.

Hey, we need your expertise over in the "Russia-Ukraine war has begun" thread.

 

[bawlmer]

get a fair trial? anywhere? What if you have so many of the population that are just steadfast that their position in their life, is to bring harm to an American patriotic citizen? What if there are controlling powers that can effect the placement of a jury, so that they is always jurors predisposed to vote against that person, regardless of the facts?
What does democracy do at that point?

We've survived this problem for almost 250 years. Just have to keep trying to do better.

Unequal Justice on JSTOR

William J. Stuntz, Unequal Justice, Harvard Law Review, Vol. 121, No. 8 (Jun., 2008), pp. 1969-2040

www.jstor.org

 

[Bowlmania]

We've survived this problem for almost 250 years. Just have to keep trying to do better.

Unequal Justice on JSTOR

William J. Stuntz, Unequal Justice, Harvard Law Review, Vol. 121, No. 8 (Jun., 2008), pp. 1969-2040

www.jstor.org

This is a major theme in the pro-Trump/far-right media: Federal law enforcement is shit and our justice system is shit.

It's a similar tactic to what we saw before the 2016 election. Trump, convinced he was going to lose, kept arguing that the "system is rigged, folks," long before the first vote was cast.

When Trump is convicted, he'll argue that he was the victim of a failing and corrupt justice system. He and his allies are teeing up that argument now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Trump and his sycophants will do their damnedest to tear the whole thing down in an effort to save Trump's sorry ass. This is a critical point in our history.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

i think we all realize that Trump tried to overthrow the govt and an election out of patriotism, and stole all those military secrets and refused to give them back, to save them from spies in the govt.

we all realize that Trump has never done anything out of self interest in his whole life, and just the idea of doing so would be beyond repulsive to him..

i hear the govt has already rigged the jury in Trump's trial with 12 Chinese communists who all owe Hunter Biden big bucks for paintings, for which he has agreed to forgive their debt in exchange for finding Trump guilty.

it's literally the most unfair thing in the history of our nation, and Trump is the most wrongfully persecuted individual in the history of the entire world, and probably the entire universe.

You must have posted something relatively interesting since you got some very rare reactions. If you posted it like an adult I might have read it.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Joe, my question was loaded to the extent that i was trying to determine why you posted this thread in the first place.

One assumption on my part was you didn't think the January 6th protesters could get a fair trial. Your use of the term "patriot" led me in this direction. Since you answered my question with a question, my line of inquiry took us nowhere.

As to your question about Hunter. Yes, I do think 13 people could be found who haven't drawn any set opinions about Hunter Biden. Hunter may be a big deal on places such as the Water Cooler, but a good many Americans could care less about Hunter.

Thanks Hoot, you always bring the good stuff and I appreciate you for that!

I posted this because at that moment, something set me off. I don't recall what exactly, but that's immaterial. I'm looking at the multiple tier judicial system that we have and I'm not really sure how we've ever survived this before. Has it ever been so obvious?
My initial thoughts, obviously, was about Trump. But then I got to thinking, could Hunter get a "fair" trial today? Hillary? Snowden? Timothy Mcvay? Guilt or innocence doesn't enter into the question. We all, they all, are innocent until they have a fair trial.
It's obvious that political DA's have thrown our that whole fair part for several people. Is this the end of US times? Without the system, filled with wholesome honest players, the system is no more better than China or Russia.
The Blacks have been screaming it for a while now, I am confident that what the Brothers have been dealing with, has the US on the edge of toppling over now that us crackers are paying attention. Maybe the Brother's should of burnt some bigger shit down.. sooner? I dunno.