Trump is holding children hostage

[zeke4ahs]

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This is a pretty weird jacket to wear.

It's not first ladies don't have a staff who might say "uhhh, are you sure you want to wear that?" I suspect most of them have help picking out their attire historically.

Another time I thought this surely isn’t true. Is all of the staff trying to sabotage them??

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I don't see the administration going back to catch and release. They are going to be detained. They are either going to be detained as a family or separately. I prefer as a family.

thanks for a non hyperbolic take on this.

either they are going to be detained with their parents, or separately.

which is better i know not, since i'm not in those camps.

seems like the safety of the child should come first imo.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

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This is a pretty weird jacket to wear.

It's not first ladies don't have a staff who might say "uhhh, are you sure you want to wear that?" I suspect most of them have help picking out their attire historically.

Womp womp?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

It is disgusting and wrong to equate human beings with insects and animals, as Trump so disgracefully does. Illegal immigrants are committing no moral wrong. They are doing what we might do in their place—as we, by defending borders, are doing what they would do if they were in ours. Like so many human institutions, borders are both arbitrary and indispensable. Without them, there are no nations. Without nations, there can be no democracy and no liberalism. John Lennon may imagine that without nations there will be only humanity. More likely, without nations there will only be tribes.​

Writing in The Atlantic a year ago, my colleague Peter Beinart remarked on the increasingly unanimous opposition among Democrats to any form of immigration enforcement at all. “An undocumented alien is not a criminal,” Senator Kamala Harris protested last year. That view has been turbocharged over the past week. Here’s how the MSNBC host Chris Hayes described his reaction to a first-person account from a woman who had crossed the border illegally with her child, from whom she had then been forcibly separated:​

I was thinking to myself, this reads like the literature of a totalitarian government. This reads like a first-person dispatch from an authoritarian state. This reads like something from a sci-fi novel about some dystopic future.​

One of the themes that emerges in that kind of literature is a kind of bureaucratic state that's faceless and incomprehensible. The idea of these kind of like these men with suits or men in uniform who show up and they wield this completely arbitrary power that can crush someone’s life. That goes back to The Trial of Joseph K. by Kafka, and it’s an emerging theme in a lot of the Soviet literature about the experience of the Soviet state that was just completely arbitrary and capricious. It shows up in 1984, just this idea that you’re living your life, you’re doing something, and then all of a sudden, the state can come in and wrench your life apart, and completely [upend] it.​

There’s a knock at the door. There’s a call that comes in. There’s a person who gets out of a car and calls your name, and the next thing you know, you’re in handcuffs. That idea of tyranny hanging over people, kind of absurdist tyranny is a really through lining when we think about the kind of societies that we aren’t, non-free societies, societies under the sway of totalitarian regimes, authoritarian regimes, dictatorships, et cetera.​

Now notice something: As Hayes elaborates his horror at the separation of mother from child, he seems to arrive at a conclusion that there is something inherently oppressive about any kind of immigration rule at all. The “men in suits or men in uniform” he speaks of do not just “show up.” The border crosser goes to them. She is not just “living her life … and then all of a sudden, the state can come in and wrench your life apart.” She, of her own volition, traveled hundreds of miles to challenge the authority of a foreign state to police its frontiers. When her challenge failed—when she was apprehended and detained—what happened next must have felt harsh and frightening. But dictatorial? Totalitarian? In democracies, too, the wrong side of the law is an inescapably uncomfortable place to find yourself.
​

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/need-for-immigration-control/563261/

I will gladly admit that "my side" went to the extreme in following the law and separating children from parents. What I would like is for some of you to realize that you took the other extreme position whenever any effort was made to arrive at a compromise on this issue. Frum takes all of us to task in the article.

no one on either side acknowledges that there actually are 2 sides to this story, or for that matter, to any issue any more.

the blind unbending partisanship we now see on both sides, came only from the right for decades. (driven by hate radio).

finally, the left realized trying to be more open minded unilaterally was a losing proposition, and decided to follow the right's lead into crazyville.

and now the sock puppets and the party media throw as much gas on the flames as they can, while never offering up a rational solution to anything, ever, that addresses both sides' concerns, as that's not their mission.

in the mean time, the moneyed interests embed themselves more and more into our govt, including the courts, to their own benefit and away from the benefit of the citizenry more each day, while everyone's attention on both sides is focused elsewhere.

and the moneyed interests can and do use their control of both parties, thus the media and sock puppets of both parties, to keep the citizenry's attention always focused elsewhere, and always away from the real number one crisis this country faces, the out and out buying of govt, legislative, judicial, regulatory, by and for the moneyed interests.

 

[meridian]

Not just any lawyer, one of the best lawyers.

One of the best? Why the downgrade? He has the best lawyers in history!

 

[sglowrider]

The least surprising leak for a while.

 

[Bruce1]

Keep your soiled version of Christianity and its prayers to yourself please. Aren’t you all running low on prayers anyways? After the truckloads of thoughts and prayers that were delivered to the dead children and their grieving parents after all the school shootings we’ve had. You guys were always running low on thoughts. Some of those trucks only had prayers in them.

You are clueless.

 

[sglowrider]

Government-funded treatment center forcibly injected immigrant kids with drugs: legal filings
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-drugging-immigrant-children-20180620-story.html

Migrant children, traumatized from being detained under the Trump administration’s zero tolerance immigration policy, are being forcibly injected with powerful psychotropic drugs that can lead to movement disorders, cause obesity, and have other long-lasting, harmful effects on children, according to new legal filings.
Children held at Shiloh Treatment Center, a government-funded facility in Manvel, Texas, described being placed on multiple psychotropic medications without their parents’ consent.

Another example of sub-humanising (of brown people.)

 

[meridian]

You are clueless.

Look at yourself in the mirror before you accuse someone as such!

 

[Bruce1]

Look at yourself in the mirror before you accuse someone as such!

I’ve learned from the best....U

 

[sglowrider]

I’ve learned from the best....U

Christ on a stick... stop embarrassing yourself!!

 

[meridian]

Christ on a stick... stop embarrassing yourself!!

I don't think he understands what "embarrassing" means.

 

[DrHoops]

One of the best people using the best words!

Not just any lawyer, one of the best lawyers.

 

[Lucy01]

Does anyone on the Cooler wonder why all the super lawyers that post here are not defending any of the illegals that are in trouble.

 

[Fro]

3 days apart, lol

 

[sglowrider]

Womp womp?

The Trumps: Bad hair; Don't care.

 

[meridian]

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3 days apart, lol

Only 3 days apart?
I thought he would flip at the rate of his finger tips.
To think that he is allowed to push the Doomsday Button scares the hell out of me!

 

[futueteipsum]

From multiple sources, this is the basic story:

President Trump has calculated that he will gain political leverage in congressional negotiations by continuing to enforce a policy he claims to hate — separating immigrant parents from their young children at the southern border, according to White House officials.

On Friday, Trump suggested he would not change the policy unless Democrats agreed to his other immigration demands, which include funding a border wall, tightening the rules for border enforcement and curbing legal entry. He also is intent on pushing members of his party to vote for a compromise measure that would achieve those long-standing priorities.

Trump’s public acknowledgment that he was willing to let the policy continue as he pursued his political goals came as the president once again blamed Democrats for a policy enacted and touted by his own administration.

“The Democrats are forcing the breakup of families at the Border with their horrible and cruel legislative agenda,” he tweeted. After listing his demands in any immigration bill, he added, “Go for it! WIN!”

The attempt to gain advantage from a practice the American Academy of Pediatrics describes as causing children “irreparable harm” sets up a high-stakes gambit for Trump, whose political career has long benefited from harsh rhetoric on immigration.

. . . Besides increasing the odds of a broader immigration bill, senior Trump strategists believe that the child separation policy will deter the flow of migrant families across the border. Nearly 2,000 immigrant children were separated from parents in less than two weeks in late April, according to the Justice Department. The figure is the only one released by the goverment.

"The president has told folks that in lieu of the laws being fixed, he wants to use the enforcement mechanisms that we have,” a White House official said. “The thinking in the building is to force people to the table.”

. . . Some senior officials think Democrats will be pressured by the policy to cut an immigration deal.

“If they aren’t going to cooperate, we are going to look to utilize the laws as hard as we can,” said a second White House official.

Others have argued that the main benefit of the policy is deterrence. Miller has said internally that the child separations will bring the numbers down at the border, a goal that Trump wants to achieve.
​

Trump has begun separating children from their parents because he thinks the very inhumanity of it will drive Democrats to fund his Game of Thrones wall. That's the decision-making of a sociopath. (Here is what Trump's distraught child hostages sound like, sobbing and begging for their parents.) But only two-thirds of us oppose this barbarism; over half of Republicans say they support it.

I'd have thought it'd be easy to get bipartisan agreement that it's reprehensible to hold children hostage to get your way in negotiations. And maybe it still could be. But no principled person could negotiate with a man who's literally holding children hostage. The people who are on that person's team need to tell him that he has to release the child hostages before anyone can be seen talking to him. This is the sort of thing they'd do if they didn't want to be associated with a sociopath, anyway.

​

Technically speaking, are they hostages when they're put in concentration camps?

 

[sglowrider]

Mr. Womp Womp

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Mr. Womp Womp

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Why would that bother Trump? He mocked a disabled reporter.

 

[Lucy01]

Why would that bother Trump? He mocked a disabled reporter.

And that reporter deserved it, All reporters are scum.

 

[meridian]

And that reporter deserved it, All reporters are scum.

Are you serious?

 

[sglowrider]

Are you serious?

Link?

 

[meridian]

Link?

I believe you are asking for the link to Lucy, right?
Also, what did Aloha like when you asked me for a link, which should've been asked to Lucy in the first place?

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

I still don't understand why my heart is supposed to break for citizens of Central American countries committing illegal acts and suffering the consequences.


If I dash across the White House lawn tomorrow towards the front door...... will any of you feel empathy for the fate that befalls me?

 

[mashnut]

I still don't understand why my heart is supposed to break for citizens of Central American countries committing illegal acts and suffering the consequences.


If I dash across the White House lawn tomorrow towards the front door...... will any of you feel empathy for the fate that befalls me?

That’s not a fair analogy. If instead your life and community fell apart and left you with no good options to provide safety and sustenance to your children, and if you as a reasonable person feel so backed into a corner that you bring them to the White House lawn in the hopes they will be safe, I will absolutely feel for your children.

There’s an assumption underlying a lot of the posts here that these migrants are stupid or ignorant, but they’re people just like people anywhere else in the world. If they honestly see the difficult, dangerous and uncertain trek here is their best option some of us tend to look at that as a problem we as the richest and most diverse country on earth can help solve. Others see it as an opportunity to punch down and remind people that the accident of the side of an imaginary line in which they were born condemns them to a life they didn’t and wouldn’t choose.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Others see it as an opportunity to punch down and remind people that the accident of the side of an imaginary line in which they were born condemns them to a life they didn’t and wouldn’t choose.

Being born in Central America is the ONLY factor that has lead to them needing to break the law and illegally cross international borders?

Oversimplify much?

btw. Borders are not imaginary, why would you say such a thing?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I still don't understand why my heart is supposed to break for citizens of Central American countries committing illegal acts and suffering the consequences.


If I dash across the White House lawn tomorrow towards the front door...... will any of you feel empathy for the fate that befalls me?

Maybe. Do it and I’ll tell you how I feel after what happens happens.

 

[sglowrider]

I believe you are asking for the link to Lucy, right?
Also, what did Aloha like when you asked me for a link, which should've been asked to Lucy in the first place?

It was an old joke so in a Trumpian world, three-day old joke.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I believe you are asking for the link to Lucy, right?
Also, what did Aloha like when you asked me for a link, which should've been asked to Lucy in the first place?

I liked the inside joke. Apparently you aren’t in on the joke.

 

[sglowrider]

 

[sglowrider]

Such good people.

 

[Standard Issue]

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Such good people.

Pack them all in a shipping container and send them to The Hague.

 

[sglowrider]

Pack them all in a shipping container and send them to The Hague.

And in a Trumpian fashion, the container gets lost along the way and lands up somewhere in central America. Christian justice.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

And in a Trumpian fashion, the container gets lost along the way and lands up somewhere in central America. Christian justice.

Fetusian justice.

WWJD seems to rarely enter into the thinking of too many of the politically active sect.

 

[meridian]

I still don't understand why my heart is supposed to break for citizens of Central American countries committing illegal acts and suffering the consequences.


If I dash across the White House lawn tomorrow towards the front door...... will any of you feel empathy for the fate that befalls me?

Something tells me that you are a devout Church-goer. Am I right?