Wow, this must be a great right wing fake story about what is happening to immigrant kids separated from parents. This just can’t be true.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-family-separation-20180618-story.html
Trump is holding children hostage
- Thread starter Rockfish1
- Start date
Wow, this must be a great right wing fake story about what is happening to immigrant kids separated from parents. This just can’t be true.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-family-separation-20180618-story.html
You and Jeff Sessions agree that being the victim of domestic or gang violence never provides a rationale for asylum. I disagree with you both...as did the Obama administration and many people. For example, it seems that watching your husband get murdered by a violent gang that then puts you into sexual slavery makes you a member of a terrorist group or something and so disqualifies you for asylum
https://www.motherjones.com/politic...e-and-gang-violence-arent-grounds-for-asylum/
So, death and violence is inextricably bound to the debate. But really, this isn't about death or violence, it is about the systematic effort to ethnically cleanse or disenfranchise those who present a threat to the white ethnic supremacy that sits at the core of the real Republican party. Everything in our politics today orbits and threatens to get sucked into that black hole.
Just to clarify. What, precisely, would worry you about 500,000 new citizens who are currently poor Mexicans?
Thats just Juarez. In Mexico there are 125 million people of which 50% live in poverty and 10% in extreme poverty. That would be 12.5 million potential new citizens. Thats just Mexico. Want to keep going?
Last edited:
It is 500,000 more people who are ill equipped to compete in our economy. You could add them to the millions who are already falling behind. The fact that they are Mexicans means nothing, other than perhaps providing a further impediment to them as they probably are not proficient in our language.
Welcome to the kids concentration camp
:http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-family-separation-20180618-story.html
Comments like these point out just how ridicules it is to have real conversations with people differing views.
I heard a report from a pediatrician today who said because the kids weren't talking much it was a sign the were traumatized from being taken from their parents. That is interesting since these kids just trekked over 2000 miles and prior to that lived in fear and abject poverty for the prior years of their lives.
Aren't you supposed to at least act like you follow a God who would say:
I am impressed with how many new Christians there are on this board that are now deep into the Bible.
Yeah, you guys, we all know that the witless hillbillies' stick figure misinterpretations of the Bible are the one true faith! What gives with all these convenient Biblical references from people who grew up in the Church, have a thorough understanding of the Bible, grappled with faith and the meaning of scripture their entire life, and have nuanced but well-considered conclusions about Christianity that don't include tossing out errant Biblical factoids in a misguided effort to support their cretin un-Christian assaults on decency? C'mon already!
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I’m the only agnostic in my family. Correlated fact: I’m the only person in my family that’s read the Bible.
Maybe being in a strange country and being forcibly torn away from your parents is just a hair different. You should drop your children or grandchildren off at one of these places since it’s pretty much summer camp.
Wait, I thought he was ripping families apart because of the law of the land. How does Mr Rule-of-Law IUCrazy feel about this executive overreach? Now it’s ok for presidents to change law when they feel like it? I’ve been reading here all week that it was because of our laws that these families were physically ripped apart and children placed in cages. Now an executive order can undo law? Hmmm...
I'm sure this is the final straw, and will cause VPM to withdraw his support of The Donald.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
No you'd spend most of your time wondering why your VCR is flashing 12:00, 12:00,...
How about we reverse the question and ask how many millions or billions of people you want to consign to hellish existences that they desperately want to escape? People disagree. Trump, for example, is perfectly willing to consign almost everyone on the planet to hell except himself and his close family and other rich and powerful billionaires and oligarchs. Hence his love for autocrats like Putin and Kim. Those who support Trump imagine themselves and their close family or tribe to be inside Trump's castle walls. They, at least implicitly, agree with Trump that everyone outside the wall can burn in hell for all they care. Other Americans think that the world should be made safe for democracy and America should stand as a shining city on the hill. I am among that latter old-fashioned group that thinks we should be working to help minimize the number of people living hellish existences. That comes with a combination of humanitarian immigration policies and a foreign policy that builds non-hellish societies for as many people as possible.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...call-most-vivid-memories-2014apr27-story.html
Asher Aud (Sieradski), 86 (Poland): Married, three children and ten grandchildren. Retired from Israel Military Industries, a state-owned weapons manufacturer.
Asher Aud's odyssey reads like a history of the Holocaust's horrors.
Over six years, he was separated from his parents and siblings in his native Polish town of Zdunska Wola and then scavenged for scraps of bread and staved off a debilitating illness alone in the Lodz ghetto before he was deported to the Auschwitz death camp.
There, he avoided the gas chambers and crematoria, and after a long incarceration, he weathered the notorious death march through the snow to Mauthausen, where those who fell behind were shot dead on the spot. After the war, he passed through a series of displaced person camps before he boarded a ship to the Holy Land where he did his best to forget the past for the next half century.
Aud will be one of the six survivors chosen to light a symbolic torch at Israel's official ceremony Sunday night marking the remembrance day.
Of all the atrocities he endured, Aud said the strongest memory is the one that was most traumatic — parting from his mother at the age of 14.
Asher Aud's odyssey reads like a history of the Holocaust's horrors.
Over six years, he was separated from his parents and siblings in his native Polish town of Zdunska Wola and then scavenged for scraps of bread and staved off a debilitating illness alone in the Lodz ghetto before he was deported to the Auschwitz death camp.
There, he avoided the gas chambers and crematoria, and after a long incarceration, he weathered the notorious death march through the snow to Mauthausen, where those who fell behind were shot dead on the spot. After the war, he passed through a series of displaced person camps before he boarded a ship to the Holy Land where he did his best to forget the past for the next half century.
Aud will be one of the six survivors chosen to light a symbolic torch at Israel's official ceremony Sunday night marking the remembrance day.
Of all the atrocities he endured, Aud said the strongest memory is the one that was most traumatic — parting from his mother at the age of 14.
I suggest you spell complete completely and correctly or people will consider you too illiterate and incompetent to take seriously.
One simple point. Thru NAFTA and thirty years before the US sent millions of jobs to Mexico. The result OD that is a country that has 125 million people, half of which live below the poverty line...of Mexico.
https://borgenproject.org/poverty-in-mexico-2/
What do you propose that we do to improve their world? Maybe we should invade them and take over their county? Is that your plan. Other than that you main theme is to make extreme and really horrible about anybody who has a different view than you. Years ago here was our President to be’s plan in 2005. My how times change.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4656370/sen-barack-obama-illegal-immigration
I’d be willing to bet that not every single person in Mexico wants to come here. It would take an awful lot to get me to uproot and leave almost everything and everyone I’ve ever known. But there are some who’s situation is so bad, so desperate, that they are willing to leave their homeland to come here, even with people like you here.
Done, now maybe you can take the time to read the prior messages and see why I was using Mexico in the context understanding how vulnerable we are to open borders. That way you might avoid looking like just another @ssh@t poster who only wants to post derogatory stuff about others.
Agree, I didn’t say that all of them would come if we had open borders. But if 10% of the population is living in extreme poverty and live relatively close to the border you can bet a lot of them would try.
I think the new executive order may be illegal because it contemplates that children will be held longer than 20 days. If so, what Trump's done here doesn't solve the problem. It just allows Trump to blame some judge if/when the order is reversed.
(The order seems to acknowledge the problem I'm talking about, because it reportedly directs the AG to get relief from the consent decree that says kids can't be held longer than 20 days.)
As would I of the situation was reversed. As would anyone seeking a better and safer life with their child. You’re talking about it like something is wrong with it.
I'm impressed with the amount of self confessed Chrsitians that dont follow the teachings of Christ.
Question for you. How many of these folks from Central America are here to harm us? How many are actual gang members, as opposed to those fleeing gangs?
I know the answer, via stats from the federal government.
I’m just curious as to what you believe the figure is.
And, I agree that we must have law, and “protect” our borders. However, in some weird way you see these people escaping horrible situations as dangerous to us- they’re not. You must feel like Trump, and feel that these people are “infesting” our country.
And, now that Jeff Sessions has declared that domestic violence and fear of being killed by a Central American gang isn’t good enough to gain asylum- we’re going to send many of these people right back into the situation they fled from already. That journey from Central America through Mexico is incredibly dangerous- so their fear must be justified, right? Why would you put yourself and your children in danger, unless you absolutely have to do it?
I really think either A) you don’t understand the circumstances these people are facing or B) you really want America to be Lilly white, and restrict immigration to almost nothing. Which is it?
I simply don’t understand your fear of the brown masses that are trying to simply continue to live. If anything, the folks that we could afford an opportunity to continue to live (not hyperbole) would be great Americans- because they realize that we’ve given them and their children a chance. Something that they do not have right now.
It ain’t about economic opportunity- it’s about being in fear for your GD life. And your children’s life.
That’s what the defenders of this ridiculous policy are missing.
I propose that we return to the common values articulated by Presidents from both parties up until this last one. You know the stuff about shining city on the hill? That kind of thing. The "America First" let's shit on our democratic allies and make common cause with thuggish autocrats and dictators...that part we should reject.
It is so weird to be accused of proposing to invade and take over countries when the last time this was suggested and carried out folks like me were adamantly opposed while folks from your side of the aisle were hot to trot.
As for making people "extreme and really horrible" ... I confess that I have been really shocked to learn just how many people in my country hold extreme and really horrible views. I admit to having suspicions for a long time that people didn't actually hold the values they claimed for example on race. But I thought we shared common values about, say, the importance of supporting democracy and free trade abroad. I thought we all agreed on stuff like the Geneva Convention and torture. It seems I have been badly mistaken on this.
It is quite scary actually because it seems to me as if many people in my country are increasingly giving themselves permission to go "postal" into what looks like a murderous and suicidal rage against those they regard as "other". They literally see themselves at war with "liberals" or "others". This "thinking" is very far from reality but is now promoted by our President and the right media apparatus including Fox. These twin influences allows them to countenance views and actions that even they would have regarded as both extreme and horrible a couple of decades ago. I am deeply concerned.
Here's an explainer from Vox that gives a more detailed explanation of why Trump's new executive order probably won't survive a legal challenge. It also explains that it's far beyond the government's current capabilities and capacities to humanely house all of the families who'd be affected.
Everything flows from Trump's zero tolerance policy. If you're going to criminally prosecute everyone who enters without authorization, then you either have to take away their children, or you have to lock them all up together. I doubt that a federal judge would allow the Trump administration to do the latter, particularly in the slapdash and plainly inadequate circumstances that now exist. If so, Trump would have to either continue separating thousands of children (some of them permanently), or he'd have to discontinue the zero tolerance policy. I think that people in his administration know all of this (even if he doesn't), which causes me to regard this new executive order as just another cynically dishonest move by the Sociopath-in-Chief.
You’re looking at it from an American point of view- here you can almost always leave the situation and be OK. In the Central American countries, this really isn’t an option.
What about gang violence? If the government is powerless to stop it (or domestic abuse), why shouldn’t that qualify for asylum? Where the hell else can they go? Mexico is largely lawless as well, in huge swaths of the country.
Session’s guidance on this topic is inhuman. There’s a reason why his own church denomination has denounced him.
I’ll neber understand turning a blind eye to fellow humans in need. Again, these folks aren’t coming here with their kids for economic opportunity- despite what the right wing media wants to promote. They’re at the border because they’ve got no other options.
