The People of the State of Minnesota v. Derek Chauvin

[NPT]

I know them all to be worthless dumbasses.

You know the sad part is that they influence a lot of people.. What do you get when you follow a dumbass? 😁

 

[IUCrazy2]

Meh, these are national figureheads though. Many of us know how intellectually inferior some of these lifetime politicians are, but our public is too stupid to know any better.

Not mentioned by the "good" Senator, the girl who was shot appeared to be a second away from stabbing another black female after having just assaulted a third female as the cops were arriving. People were out in the streets protesting this one as well.

 

[larsIU]

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Not mentioned by the "good" Senator, the girl who was shot appeared to be a second away from stabbing another black female after having just assaulted a third female as the cops were arriving. People were out in the streets protesting this one as well.

I expected a more nuanced opinion from Sherrod Brown. I watched the video. I'm open to hear opinions from anyone who can tell me what the hell the cop was supposed to do in that situation. Was there time to disarm her? Is the cop trained for that? Perhaps something further will come out which will shed additional light on this one but from what I've seen this appears more justified than the Adam Toledo situation which itself was a tragic caes of bad decisions spiraling into even worse outcomes.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

We’re not living on the same planet. My thoughts on race relations are well published here and I clearly despise the liberal narrative on race.

But this guy knelt on a no-longer resisting guy’s neck (over $20) for 9+ minutes, with most of that occurring after he stopped resisting and 2.5+ of it occurring after there was no pulse. In public on video, for nothing. Nothing. Chauvin made the worse decision of his life on a lifelong piece of shit petty criminal.

Ashli Babbitt 100% deserved to be shot. She was attempting to break into a fortified hallway and she paid the price.

There is zero comparison here. Stop reading the talking points. They stink.

So long as you make the same argument about any of those who continue to attack federal courthouses to this day, then we are in agreement.

I don’t think those two situations would be covered the same, though.

 

[hoot1]

That's fine, the jury found him guilty so our system says he is guilty. There were enough merits to find him guilty on at least one of the three charges based on the limited amount of attention I paid to the trial.

To be clear, I am not questioning the outcome. My comment was more along the lines of everyone hoping he gets found guilty so we don't see a spasm of violence. That, in my opinion, is not justice. If the guy was innocent and someone on the jury or the public felt he should be sacrificed to placate a mob, that is not right. I was just challenging that opinion.

Craze, do you really believe this jury was concerned about the public response to their decision rather than weighing the evidence ?

I said "this jury" because there is a possibility that a jury could be selected which was prone to be swayed by public opinion. This possibility highlights the importance of jury selection and the need for a defendant to have competent legal counsel.

Is justice really served across the country when defendants without the financial resources to hire competent counsel face prosecutors with more resources and experience.

So while the nation is wrapped up in the high profile Chauvin trial thousands of financially poor defendants receive questionable representation. This is not justice in my opinion and represents a bigger problem than the influence that angry protesters might have on a single high profile case.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Craze, do you really believe this jury was concerned about the public response to their decision rather than weighing the evidence ?

I said "this jury" because there is a possibility that a jury could be selected which was prone to be swayed by public opinion. This possibility highlights the importance of jury selection and the need for a defendant to have competent legal counsel.

Is justice really served across the country when defendants without the financial resources to hire competent counsel face prosecutors with more resources and experience.

So while the nation is wrapped up in the high profile Chauvin trial thousands of financially poor defendants receive questionable representation. This is not justice in my opinion and represents a bigger problem than the influence that angry protesters might have on a single high profile case.

It is an oddity that while Chauvin got free representation he didn’t get to choose his lawyer.

Yes having money to hire a good lawyer makes all the difference in the world. So too does jury selection. For a county 13 percent black from a defense standpoint he couldn’t have gotten a worse jury

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

"Fair Trial" is not relevant when it is an open and shut case as this one was. "Mob Rule" was standing down and standing by just in case it was not an open and shut case.

Agreed. And the latter is a problem.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The most important distinction is one was black and one was white. Even president Joe Biden weighed in on this point with his “imagine if the Capitol mob were black people” comments.

Last I checked, breaching a secured area is not grounds for the cops to use deadly force from a concealed position with no warning.

Dumb. Those people were riotous and were hunting congressmen. Shame on you for being daft on this one.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

He did not say it was the only difference. Not to be a dick but I think certain topics cause some people to get a type of tunnel vision where they just cannot see what the actual argument is. All reading comprehension goes out the window.

Or some arguments aren’t explained properly and are stolen from the talking points designed for the dumb.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

So long as you make the same argument about any of those who continue to attack federal courthouses to this day, then we are in agreement.

I don’t think those two situations would be covered the same, though.

Are there judges hiding in the bowels of the courthouses and being actively hunted by the rioters? If yes I’ll agree and make same comment.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

View embedded media

Not mentioned by the "good" Senator, the girl who was shot appeared to be a second away from stabbing another black female after having just assaulted a third female as the cops were arriving. People were out in the streets protesting this one as well.

Shame on Brown. He would say “I mean she should be alive right now because she shouldn’t have taken that action” but we know that the talking points consumers won’t try to find the full story.

I will not vote for another Democrat at the national level until the race baiting stops.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Etc

Craze, do you really believe this jury was concerned about the public response to their decision rather than weighing the evidence ?

I said "this jury" because there is a possibility that a jury could be selected which was prone to be swayed by public opinion. This possibility highlights the importance of jury selection and the need for a defendant to have competent legal counsel.

Is justice really served across the country when defendants without the financial resources to hire competent counsel face prosecutors with more resources and experience.

So while the nation is wrapped up in the high profile Chauvin trial thousands of financially poor defendants receive questionable representation. This is not justice in my opinion and represents a bigger problem than the influence that angry protesters might have on a single high profile case.

I think the problem with “resources” is way overplayed. With almost all cases ending with a plea bargain, resources are less important. The biggest variable is at sentencing. Accomplished people receive more lenient sentences and that is tied to race. Race is an important circumstance with juveniles and late teen adults. When a court considers probation, family support is an important consideration for granting probation or not having it later revoked for violation of terms. This is where young black males are at a distinct disadvantage.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Are there judges hiding in the bowels of the courthouses and being actively hunted by the rioters? If yes I’ll agree and make same comment.

They repeatedly set the building on fire in Portland. So they’re apparently trying to kill EVERYONE in the place. That’s actually worse, in my opinion.

Also, an attack on federal property is an attack on federal property. If Babbit deserved a death sentence, so do they.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

They repeatedly set the building on fire in Portland. So they’re apparently trying to kill EVERYONE in the place. That’s actually worse, in my opinion.

They’re setting the building on fire with workers and judges inside of it, Doc?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

They’re setting the building on fire with workers and judges inside of it, Doc?

Does it matter? Does there need to be a certain amount of people inside?

I’m gonna guess a federal courthouse is never completely empty.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Does it matter? Does there need to be a certain amount of people inside?

I’m gonna guess a federal courthouse is never completely empty.

You’re arguing for arguing sakes and I’m not following you there. The differences are obvious. Overtly obvious for anybody who cares to see them.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You’re arguing for arguing sakes and I’m not following you there. The differences are obvious. Overtly obvious for anybody who cares to see them.

The arsonists also blocked exits with concrete.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

You’re arguing for arguing sakes and I’m not following you there. The differences are obvious. Overtly obvious for anybody who cares to see them.

Nah, you’re being disingenuous. The only difference you’ve put forward so far is who might be in the building and the intentions of those doing the attacking.

But an attack on a federal building should be treated the same under the law regardless of who’s doing it or what they’re trying to accomplish.

 

[HooDatGuy]

“Emmett Till was the first George Floyd”

- Philonise Floyd

 

[hoot1]

Etc

I think the problem with “resources” is way overplayed. With almost all cases ending with a plea bargain, resources are less important. The biggest variable is at sentencing. Accomplished people receive more lenient sentences and that is tied to race. Race is an important circumstance with juveniles and late teen adults. When a court considers probation, family support is an important consideration for granting probation or not having it later revoked for violation of terms. This is where young black males are at a distinct disadvantage.

CoH, my remarks about "resources" are limited to what i know about the justice system in Indianapolis (Marion County, Indiana) and are based upon a few conversations with lawyers working for the the prosecutor and public defender office.

Public defenders are paid less and have much larger case loads than their counter parts in the prosecutor's office. Thus defendants who cannot afford to hire one of the community's talented defense attorneys have the deck stacked against them in my opinion. An opinion admittedly based on limited knowledge.

 

[SqueakyClean]

It is an oddity that while Chauvin got free representation he didn’t get to choose his lawyer.

Yes having money to hire a good lawyer makes all the difference in the world. So too does jury selection. For a county 13 percent black from a defense standpoint he couldn’t have gotten a worse jury

Not that I have alot of experience in the matter, but the defendant's lawyer has a certain amount of veto power on jury selection, correct? During jury selection, there is usually a pool of about 30-ish people and IIRC, the lawyers have the ability to nix 6 to 8 of them no questions asked. I would have to assume that the defendant's lawyer would have to be smart enough to know how race could subtly affect the situation. Unless he was forced to choose between a higher-than-average amount of African Americans versus a bunch of people wearing "Kill'em all and let God sort it out" T-shirts, I gotta imagine that he couldn't find significant reasons to exclude them.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

He's either gone totally off the rails or is actively trolling. With COH it's oftentimes hard to tell which.

COH has been playing defense/appellate attorney for Chauvin in this thread. Unfortunately for him, Chauvin didn't have a case at trial and has 1,000 times worse odds on appeal. This case is a watershed case for police accountability, which is bad news for attorneys that represent police officers.

 

[Bowlmania]

Etc

I think the problem with “resources” is way overplayed. With almost all cases ending with a plea bargain, resources are less important. The biggest variable is at sentencing. Accomplished people receive more lenient sentences and that is tied to race. Race is an important circumstance with juveniles and late teen adults. When a court considers probation, family support is an important consideration for granting probation or not having it later revoked for violation of terms. This is where young black males are at a distinct disadvantage.

Your arguments here and throughout this thread are absurd. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[UncleMark]

Your arguments here and throughout this thread are absurd. You're embarrassing yourself.

You must be new around here.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Nah, you’re being disingenuous. The only difference you’ve put forward so far is who might be in the building and the intentions of those doing the attacking.

But an attack on a federal building should be treated the same under the law regardless of who’s doing it or what they’re trying to accomplish.

Of course the arsonists should be prosecuted. But if you’re saying we should be sniping arsonists of an empty building then we don’t agree.

 

[mcmurtry66]

COH has been playing defense/appellate attorney for Chauvin in this thread. Unfortunately for him, Chauvin didn't have a case at trial and has 1,000 times worse odds on appeal. This case is a watershed case for police accountability, which is bad news for attorneys that represent police officers.

disagree hoosierjimbo. the facts in this case were pretty damning. i wouldn't extrapolate same. he was dead in the water with so many cops coming out against him re procedure. i don't think that happens often. usually cops plea with facts this bad. chauvin tried to plea but the state rejected

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Shame on Brown. He would say “I mean she should be alive right now because she shouldn’t have taken that action” but we know that the talking points consumers won’t try to find the full story.

I will not vote for another Democrat at the national level until the race baiting stops.

Here’s another race baiter who made it onto the dais during the Democrat debates.

Shame on these people. Not a single one will get my vote.

 

[larsIU]

Here’s another race baiter who made it onto the dais during the Democrat debates.

Shame on these people. Not a single one will get my vote.

View embedded media

Are they so lazy they can't take 90 seconds and watch the body cam video? At least hedge your bet guys. Lord.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Are they so lazy they can't take 90 seconds and watch the body cam video? At least hedge your bet guys. Lord.

On the contrary. They know exactly what happened. They don’t care. The facts don’t fit their narrative so they ignore them.

Ben Crump’s glad - now he has a new engagement.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Here’s another race baiter who made it onto the dais during the Democrat debates.

Shame on these people. Not a single one will get my vote.

View embedded media

The Body Cam footage shows her knocking one girl to the ground and stabbing her then charging another girl with a knife. She's shot right before she stabs the second girl.

People should pick their battles. This is a poor one.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Craze, do you really believe this jury was concerned about the public response to their decision rather than weighing the evidence ?

I said "this jury" because there is a possibility that a jury could be selected which was prone to be swayed by public opinion. This possibility highlights the importance of jury selection and the need for a defendant to have competent legal counsel.

Is justice really served across the country when defendants without the financial resources to hire competent counsel face prosecutors with more resources and experience.

So while the nation is wrapped up in the high profile Chauvin trial thousands of financially poor defendants receive questionable representation. This is not justice in my opinion and represents a bigger problem than the influence that angry protesters might have on a single high profile case.

Short answer, I don't know if they were or not. Long answer, I think Chauvin was guilty on at least 1 of the 3 charges. (I am a little foggy how he could be guilty of all 3, but that is maybe more my ignorance to the delineation between the different grades which is why I did not wade into that discussion....I was not informed enough.) So to this trial, I think the argument could be made that justice was served. The officer appeared to egregiously overstep the amount of force needed to keep Floyd subdued. The video was really damning on that account.

My main point of my original post was to say that we need to be really careful about the idea that it is better to sacrifice individuals to placate mobs. The person I initially responded to did not post to any other merits of the case other than hoping he is guilty so we don't see cities burn. I think that is a wrong approach. If they had made the argument that with the video they hope he is found guilty because a preponderance of evidence indicates he is, I would not have argued that point. I would agree with the latter. He was guilty of the manslaughter charge at the least IMO.

 

[IUCrazy2]

CoH, my remarks about "resources" are limited to what i know about the justice system in Indianapolis (Marion County, Indiana) and are based upon a few conversations with lawyers working for the the prosecutor and public defender office.

Public defenders are paid less and have much larger case loads than their counter parts in the prosecutor's office. Thus defendants who cannot afford to hire one of the community's talented defense attorneys have the deck stacked against them in my opinion. An opinion admittedly based on limited knowledge.

To that point, I think the justice system is not racist, it is classist. The color that matters is green. If you have enough Green, you have a fighting chance even if you got the victims (plural) blood in your car and your blood at the scene.

 

[mcmurtry66]

To that point, I think the justice system is not racist, it is classist. The color that matters is green. If you have enough Green, you have a fighting chance even if you got the victims (plural) blood in your car and your blood at the scene.

Accurate

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The Body Cam footage shows her knocking one girl to the ground and stabbing her then charging another girl with a knife. She's shot right before she stabs the second girl.

People should pick their battles. This is a poor one.

That’s the thing Hank. They know that 90% of people won’t watch the footage. They know they can win votes with faux outrage and they tweet like this. They have to stay Woke or they’ll stay out of office. This is the dark side of the democrats. This is BlueAnon to the GOP’s QAnon.

Look at what it leads to. Sherrod Brown and other politicians should be held accountable if these protests turn into riots.

Protesters gather following deadly police shooting in southeast Columbus

Protesters gathered Tuesday night at Columbus Police headquarters and onLegion Lane in southeast Columbus after family members said a teen was killed in a police shooting. Family members have identified the victim as 15-year-old Ma’Khia Bryant. Around 3:45 p. m. Tuesday, police were called to...

abc6onyourside.com

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Yes having money to hire a good lawyer makes all the difference in the world. So too does jury selection. For a county 13 percent black from a defense standpoint he couldn’t have gotten a worse jury

What was the mix?

 

[Hank Reardon]

That’s the thing Hank. They know that 90% of people won’t watch the footage. They know they can win votes with faux outrage and they tweet like this. They have to stay Woke or they’ll stay out of office. This is the dark side of the democrats. This is BlueAnon to the GOP’s QAnon.

Look at what it leads to. Sherrod Brown and other politicians should be held accountable if these protests turn into riots.

Protesters gather following deadly police shooting in southeast Columbus

Protesters gathered Tuesday night at Columbus Police headquarters and onLegion Lane in southeast Columbus after family members said a teen was killed in a police shooting. Family members have identified the victim as 15-year-old Ma’Khia Bryant. Around 3:45 p. m. Tuesday, police were called to...

abc6onyourside.com

Sometimes I'm glad I'm old and will be dead soon. When did everyone turn batshit crazy?

 

[mcmurtry66]

What was the mix?

4 black two multi racial. 7 women

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Sometimes I'm glad I'm old and will be dead soon. When did everyone turn batshit crazy?

Social media gave stupid people voices.

 

[larsIU]

This is BlueAnon

If you thought that up, trademark it.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Sometimes I'm glad I'm old and will be dead soon. When did everyone turn batshit crazy?

When social media became popular.