The People of the State of Minnesota v. Derek Chauvin

[CO. Hoosier]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. There is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all stars to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. This is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all starts to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

Surprised to hear the cop has one lawyer. Many of these cops belong to police associations they contribute to that would foot the bill for a team of defense lawyers.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Surprised to hear the cop has one lawyer. Many of these cops belong to police associations they contribute to that would foot the bill for a team of defense lawyers.

I think one lawyer is smart strategy. I don't know how the defense is funded. If the money is available I'm sure there is a behind the scenes team of jury pickers, psychologists and other lawyers. The lawyers are permitted to use devices at the counsel table. Easy way for others to watch the TV feed and message the lawyer. I envision a boiler room like we saw in Queen's Gambit.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think one lawyer is smart strategy. I don't know how the defense is funded. If the money is available I'm sure there is a behind the scenes team of jury pickers, psychologists and other lawyers. The lawyers are permitted to use devices at the counsel table. Easy way for others to watch the TV feed and message the lawyer. I envision a boiler room like we saw in Queen's Gambit.

I worked for a firm that was a police association firm. They paid in every month and we had lawyers on call 24/7 for the cops. The cops worked secondary and would get jammed up at all hours of the night. Most big depts have plenty of money for defense through police associations.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. This is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all starts to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

Off topic but speaking of trial hell watch the staircase on Netflix.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Off topic but speaking of trial hell watch the staircase on Netflix.

Watched it. Had trouble with that guy’s eyebrows.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Watched it. Had trouble with that guy’s eyebrows.

Lmao ditto. Was insane when they came back after 8 years and how he looked.

 

[twenty02]

Off topic but speaking of trial hell watch the staircase on Netflix.

That was a pretty good series.

 

[DrHoops]

Off topic but speaking of trial hell watch the staircase on Netflix.

The “owl” defense was the best.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The “owl” defense was the best.

Lol yeah. Was a pretty crazy series.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Lol yeah. Was a pretty crazy series.

So, in your opinion. Innocent or guilty?

 

[mcmurtry66]

So, in your opinion. Innocent or guilty?

from what was presented i couldn't decide. i will say the judge letting the shit in from germany was a joke. what did you think? innocent or guilty? my stoker either and she always thinks she can "crack" these criminal shows lol. i don't know anything about blood splatter experts either but i didn't like the experts. experts are everything. i was a baby lawyer on a wrongful death case and we hired judge mills lane to be our expert. he spent two weeks with us and after fifteen minutes in front of the jury he had the jury completely swayed. it was a club that was sponsoring fight nights and one kid beat the other to death.

 

[hoot1]

Hey guys, what about the other three officers charged with aiding and abetting murder and manslaughter ?

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. There is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all stars to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

Ingested fatal dose of Fentanyl while attempting to conceal evidence.

Beat that like a big drum.

 

[Bowlmania]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. There is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all stars to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

What's your point?

Are you surprised and/or saddened by the enhanced security? It's a sign of the times and, frankly, local authorities would be derelict in their duty if they didn't take these measures. Look at the US Capitol. It's now a fortress as a result of the January 6 insurrection, with continuing threats from far-right extremists. Sadly, this is probably the new normal.

Why raise the specter of a mob when there's no credible threat of one? Michael Paul, special agent in charge of the FBI's Minneapolis field office, said on Monday there are currently no "known specific or credible threats" to the trial.

With respect to publicity and concern for a fair trial, this is hardly new in American jurisprudence. The Bruno Hauptmann trial in the 1930s devolved into a media circus, with numerous threats made against Hauptmann prior to and during the trial. Al Capone offered, from prison, to provide security for the proceedings. Walter Winchell called for Hauptmann's execution before the trial even began. You're a lawyer. You know high-profile cases present unique challenges but the courts generally do their best to manage them and any legitimate due process concerns are addressed through motions and/or on appeal.

Finally, Chauvin's team already scored a huge victory with the trial judge tossing the third-degree murder charge. (The state is currently trying to reinstate the charge). Fairness doesn't seem to be an issue thusfar.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. There is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all stars to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

i assume we're talking about the same George Floyd who likely OD on fentanyl.

when the entire video was released and GF was saying over and over he couldn't breath, long before ever being restrained on the ground by the cop, how sad that actual facts backed by video/audio evidence has no place in mob rule.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

from what was presented i couldn't decide. i will say the judge letting the shit in from germany was a joke. what did you think? innocent or guilty? my stoker either and she always thinks she can "crack" these criminal shows lol. i don't know anything about blood splatter experts either but i didn't like the experts. experts are everything. i was a baby lawyer on a wrongful death case and we hired judge mills lane to be our expert. he spent two weeks with us and after fifteen minutes in front of the jury he had the jury completely swayed. it was a club that was sponsoring fight nights and one kid beat the other to death.

I think he was not guilty, which of course is not the same as innocent.
But I think he did it.

This Mills Lane?

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think he was not guilty, which of course is not the same as innocent.
But I think he did it.

This Mills Lane?

You think he did it?! Wow. I kind of think he did too. I actually like the guy though. LOL yes that mills lane. he left us a signed pair of boxing gloves and a massive invoice

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You think he did it?! Wow. I kind of think he did too. I actually like the guy though. LOL yes that mills lane. he left us a signed pair of boxing gloves and a massive invoice

So, what about Jeffrey MacDonald? Guilty or innocent?

 

[mcmurtry66]

So, what about Jeffrey McDonald? Guilty or innocent?

I haven’t watched that one or followed it. I’ve seen the ads I think on Fx. Good? Another one to watch is The Jinx. The ending is soooooo creepy

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I haven’t watched that one or followed it. I’ve seen the ads I think on Fx. Good? Another one to watch is The Jinx. The ending is soooooo creepy

The Jeffrey MacDonald case first came to light with the book and TV miniseries, "Fatal Vision". Gary Cole played MacDonald. The case history is fascinating, and there have been at least 3 books written about it, and at least two miniseries. Marine surgeon/paratrooper accused of killing his wife and two kids, and blames it on Manson-like hippies.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The Jeffrey MacDonald case first came to light with the book and TV miniseries, "Fatal Vision". Gary Cole played MacDonald. The case history is fascinating, and there have been at least 3 books written about it, and at least two miniseries. Marine surgeon/paratrooper accused of killing his wife and two kids, and blames it on Manson-like hippies.

I vaguely remember it. I'll check it out. Wasn't she pregnant too?

The Jinx is Durst. Total weirdo. Good documentary

 

[larsIU]

I vaguely remember it. I'll check it out. Wasn't she pregnant too?

The Jinx is Durst. Total weirdo. Good documentary

You can find the Chris Watts interviews and lie detector on the youtubez. Evil shit.

This guy does a reasonable job walking through it (as well some other higher profile cases where the police interviews are available):

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. There is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all stars to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

What is the rationale for keeping the venue?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Finally, Chauvin's team already scored a huge victory with the trial judge tossing the third-degree murder charge. (The state is currently trying to reinstate the charge). Fairness doesn't seem to be an issue thusfar.

Wasn't that only because the state was already brining 2nd degree murder charges?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

You can find the Chris Watts interviews and lie detector on the youtubez. Evil shit.

This guy does a reasonable job walking through it (as well some other higher profile cases where the police interviews are available):

View embedded media

No fvckin chance I can watch that show. Dude cold blooded murders his wife and then his two little girls. He doesn't even deserve the worst types of hell you can mentally come up with.

Torture wouldn't bring them back, but god dammit, it would give me a little bit of faith again.

 

[larsIU]

No fvckin chance I can watch that show. Dude cold blooded murders his wife and then his two little girls. He doesn't even deserve the worst types of hell you can mentally come up with.

Torture wouldn't bring them back, but god dammit, it would give me a little bit of faith again.

I can only hope his time in prison has been as awful as I imagine it.

Also, he was toast from the moment the police showed up. Couldn't hold a white lie together much less this.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I can only hope his time in prison has been as awful as I imagine it.

Co-sign, but some of them make the best of it! was it richard speck that got himself breast implants for his buddies in there 😆

 

[larsIU]

Co-sign, but some of them make the best of it! was it richard speck that got himself breast implants for his buddies in there 😆

On his back?

 

[mcmurtry66]

On his back?

Lol I can’t remember. One of those killers got breast implants in prison, somehow

 

[hoot1]

Hey guys, what about the other three officers charged with aiding and abetting murder and manslaughter ?

Brought up the other three officers, which i think should be included, in a discussion about law enforcement officers not being treated fairly midst a public outcry following the Floyd death.

Heck, these three may have been just following local police protocol. Then, depending on your personal opinion, this either lets them off the hook, or makes Minneapolis police protocol the real criminal.

Bottom line, the Floyd death is just as much about local police protocol and training as it is about fair trials when a police officer faces public outrage which could be completely prejudicial in reaching a fair verdict.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

What's your point?

The first and most obvious point is the effect the security has on the jurors as they come and go each day. The threat of doxing, either during or after trial, and the accompanying harassment or worse at their homes would be an obvious concern. A deeper point, more suitable for a discussion in a law school student lounge, (or a neighborhood bar) is what should a court do if it finds that given the enormous adverse publicity about Defendant's wrongful conduct, and threats of mob action, that it is impossible to seat a jury without a preconceived opinion of guilt or otherwise intimidated. Do we hold a trial anyway? Or does the defendant walk?

Why raise the specter of a mob when there's no credible threat of one?

This makes no sense. If the officials don't believe there is a credible threat of mob violence, then why the concrete barriers and razor wire?

You're a lawyer. You know high-profile cases present unique challenges but the courts generally do their best to manage them and any legitimate due process concerns are addressed through motions and/or on appeal.

I don't have a concern about the judges--yet. We need to see how he conducts the trial. So far everything seems fairly normal. My concern is more about the public. When we have U.S. Senators making asses of themselves at the door of the Supreme Court, and we have hundreds of public officials already assuming guilt, and when the House passes police reform named for the decedent, with more comments from house members about defendant's guilt, we have a huge public powder keg with maybe even a fuse lit in the event of a not guilty verdict. Couple that with the visual of the Hennepin County Courthouse, not to mention the trashing of public buildings around the country, and we have a picture that is pretty far removed from equal justice for all. Certainly this isn't a picture worthy of the United States.

This case is not a slam dunk. Reading the Chauvin's brief in support of his motion to dismiss shows me that there is a lot of room for reasonable doubt in this case--if the jury is not intimidated.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Ingested fatal dose of Fentanyl while attempting to conceal evidence.

Beat that like a big drum.

i assume we're talking about the same George Floyd who likely OD on fentanyl.

when the entire video was released and GF was saying over and over he couldn't breath, long before ever being restrained on the ground by the cop, how sad that actual facts backed by video/audio evidence has no place in mob rule.

Floyd likely would not have survived the day given his condition when encounter began. However, if the defendant hastened death by 5 minutes, that would be homicide. The expert testimony about cause of death will be a huge aspect of the case. The other will be the amount of pressure Chauvin applied with his knee (according to the autopsy, not much) and Chauvin''s specific intent when doing that.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

What is the rationale for keeping the venue?

Good question. Not much about that in the document list.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Floyd likely would not have survived the day given his condition when encounter began. However, if the defendant hastened death by 5 minutes, that would be homicide. The expert testimony about cause of death will be a huge aspect of the case. The other will be the amount of pressure Chauvin applied with his knee (according to the autopsy, not much) and Chauvin''s specific intent when doing that.

the whole thing is the epitome of "never let the facts get in the way of a good story".

that said, at this point, is it about the facts, or the law, or about a sacrifice to throw to the mob.

more likely another war on drugs casualty, but no politicians taking responsibility for that..

absent the war, thus the illegality, GF could have told them he took fentanyl, and they could have immediately sought medical help for him.

or administered narcan, if that works on fentanyl.

or better yet, provided for a better solution to GF's problem than resorting to fentanyl in the first place.

 

[mcmurtry66]

the whole thing is the epitome of "never let the facts get in the way of a good story".

that said, at this point, is it about the facts, or the law, or about a sacrifice to throw to the mob.

more likely another war on drugs casualty, but no politicians taking responsibility for that..

absent the war, thus the illegality, GF could have told them he took fentanyl, and they could have immediately sought medical help for him.

or administered narcan, if that works on fentanyl.

or better yet, provided for a better solution to GF's problem than resorting to fentanyl in the first place.

yes narcan (naloxone) if given right away.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. There is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all stars to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

And to think you can get this same kind of action, including a murder and a mob, all on a Wednesday afternoon in January, based on just one powerful man telling one big lie.

 

[iuwclurker]

Trial starts Monday.

The Hennepin County Courthouse is surrounded by concrete barriers, fences, and razor wire. There is one public access. The prospective jurors are instructed to park at a remote location and will be brought to the courthouse in sheriff's vehicles. The jury will be partially sequestered and kept anonymous. The judge and others connected with the trial have been subject to significant threats and intimidation tactics at home and at work. This is all bad enough in terms of how to have a fair trial. Added to this are immediate cries by everyone from the Minnesota governor to the Minneapolis mayor to the city dog catcher, not to mention national pundits of all stripes calling for the immediate incarceration and conviction of the cops. Pelosi's House of Representatives even passed the George Floyd Police Reform Act yesterday. The ramifications of a not guilty verdict, or even of a conviction of a lesser charge, are horrendous and maybe unthinkable. The jurors know all of this. They also know that they will be doxxed.

I don't think it's possible for any defendant to get a fair trial in the death of George Floyd. There are significant reasonable doubt questions about the actual cause of death--will that matter?

The threat of mob action (hope of mob action for some) permeates this entire proceeding. Seemingly, the entire country has turned into a lynch mob. In this atmosphere the presumption of innocence and concepts of fair trial have evaporated. SCOTUS will eventually hear the criminal justice ramifications of a case like this. Intimidation and threats won't escape the SCOTUS courtroom either. Is it possible that public opinion is so strong fair trial won't matter?

Mobs are taking over everything from local city councils, to school boards, to state legislatures, to congress and finally the courts. In this case, numerous public officials support the mob. Not good.

Back to the more mundane. Here is the website for public filings in this case. Lots of mundane stuff. Except for brief mention in the Judge's order for partial jury sequestration, you wouldn't know what this case involves. Interestingly, state A.G. Kieth Ellison has assembled a team of legal all stars to prosecute Chauvin. Chauvin is defended by a single criminal lawyer who seems to be well-qualified but alone.

As a personal anecdote. I had a short trial in federal court during the Tim McVeigh trial. While security was enhanced, it was nothing like this. Back then we had a few more concrete barriers and planters to stop truck bombs. The floor where the trial was held was blocked off. No razor wire. The biggest difference was the makeshift stages around for all the pundits to do their daily TV reports with the Federal Courthouse as a back drop.

If you’re the judge, what’s your solution? And if you’re the police? And if you’re the legislators in Minnesota?

 

[iuwclurker]

The first and most obvious point is the effect the security has on the jurors as they come and go each day. The threat of doxing, either during or after trial, and the accompanying harassment or worse at their homes would be an obvious concern. A deeper point, more suitable for a discussion in a law school student lounge, (or a neighborhood bar) is what should a court do if it finds that given the enormous adverse publicity about Defendant's wrongful conduct, and threats of mob action, that it is impossible to seat a jury without a preconceived opinion of guilt or otherwise intimidated. Do we hold a trial anyway? Or does the defendant walk?



This makes no sense. If the officials don't believe there is a credible threat of mob violence, then why the concrete barriers and razor wire?



I don't have a concern about the judges--yet. We need to see how he conducts the trial. So far everything seems fairly normal. My concern is more about the public. When we have U.S. Senators making asses of themselves at the door of the Supreme Court, and we have hundreds of public officials already assuming guilt, and when the House passes police reform named for the decedent, with more comments from house members about defendant's guilt, we have a huge public powder keg with maybe even a fuse lit in the event of a not guilty verdict. Couple that with the visual of the Hennepin County Courthouse, not to mention the trashing of public buildings around the country, and we have a picture that is pretty far removed from equal justice for all. Certainly this isn't a picture worthy of the United States.

This case is not a slam dunk. Reading the Chauvin's brief in support of his motion to dismiss shows me that there is a lot of room for reasonable doubt in this case--if the jury is not intimidated.

On letting the defendant walk, are you setting a precedent for mobs creating an impossibility of their preferred defendant ever having a trial?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

On letting the defendant walk, are you setting a precedent for mobs creating an impossibility of their preferred defendant ever having a trial?

Beats me. I'm spitballing a theoretical discussion about what is the more important value to the country. A fair trial or no trial or a less than fair trial for the sake of a possible conviction. Of course overlaying this discussion like a sword of Damocles is the whole BLM conversation which skews the process.