Osterman says what I think

[crazed_hoosier2]

I agree with almost every word of this column. About the only words I’d change are from this sentence:

Because this season is far from lost, but more performances like Saturday’s will take it there, quickly.
​

I’d change “far from” to “not yet.” He’s right the season isn’t lost. But I don’t think he’s right that it’s “far from” being so.

He goes on...

And a fourth-straight season out of the NCAA tournament — third-straight under Miller — would put the Hoosiers in a precarious position.
​

I just think it would put us in a position where we should make a change — which would be really awkward with Glass leaving in May.

No coach who misses the tourney 3 straight years should be retained. His team’s a mess — again.

 

[victorbear]

Ok so you keep Archie and don’t make tourney or u Fire Archie and maybe maybe make the tourney

 

[bailey777]

I agree with almost every word of this column. About the only words I’d change are from this sentence:

Because this season is far from lost, but more performances like Saturday’s will take it there, quickly.
​

I’d change “far from” to “not yet.” He’s right the season isn’t lost. But I don’t think he’s right that it’s “far from” being so.

He goes on...

And a fourth-straight season out of the NCAA tournament — third-straight under Miller — would put the Hoosiers in a precarious position.
​

I just think it would put us in a position where we should make a change — which would be really awkward with Glass leaving in May.

No coach who misses the tourney 3 straight years should be retained. His team’s a mess — again.

It is derailing fast . Two blowout losses and one squeak by win vs a bottom big ten team at home. If there is a switch to flip it better happen now.

 

[IUgradman]

Glass should leave now so his replacement can make the decision on Archie in March. But IU doesn’t want to buy out his contract so we are stuck with him. Sigh.

 

[.Gerdis]

I agree with almost every word of this column. About the only words I’d change are from this sentence:

Because this season is far from lost, but more performances like Saturday’s will take it there, quickly.
​

I’d change “far from” to “not yet.” He’s right the season isn’t lost. But I don’t think he’s right that it’s “far from” being so.

He goes on...

And a fourth-straight season out of the NCAA tournament — third-straight under Miller — would put the Hoosiers in a precarious position.
​

I just think it would put us in a position where we should make a change — which would be really awkward with Glass leaving in May.

No coach who misses the tourney 3 straight years should be retained. His team’s a mess — again.

this team should be good, but clearly it again has personality issues. I agree wholeheartedly with his comments on lineups. We have a core group of players that this team will live and die with. As flawed as they are, that’s our team. It seems that every substitution is an experiment. I am left scratching my head at all the different lineups.

This team and next years team are built around the same players. Then the entire roster flips over. This is a team that is built to win now, and if we can’t play with the purpose, focus, grit, and intelligence needed to do so now, then we’re pretty much between a rock and a hard place.

there’s time to right the ship. But, it’s taking on water. If we don’t get the ship righted, I fear miller goes down with it (and frankly, I don’t see how it wouldn’t be on him).

 

[hoosierraven]

I agree with this quote from the article.

“Miller wants his team to be deep but it often winds up with discombobulated, unbalanced lineups breeding stunted performances. If anything, Indiana looks like it needs shorter rotations right now, not deeper ones. The Hoosiers’ bench-to-floor rhythm and connectedness breaks down for long, destructive stretches in games.”

 

[T.M.P.]

No coach who misses the tourney 3 straight years should be retained.

Is that a law, or a rule, or made up bullshit? and, exactly what criteria makes it such. Or did you just make up a 3 year line in the sand because it fits your argument?

 

[victorbear]

Is that a law, or a rule, or made up bullshit? and, exactly what criteria makes it such. Or did you just make up a 3 year line in the sand because it fits your argument?

Go away this ones not good for you.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Is that a law, or a rule, or made up bullshit? and, exactly what criteria makes it such. Or did you just make up a 3 year line in the sand because it fits your argument?

It’s an opinion regarding the standards of a program that was (once, anyway) among the elite. How long do you think a coach at IU should be allowed to stay on without making the post-season? 5 years? 8? Coach for life?

3 years is enough — at least for that modest accomplishment.

 

[victorbear]

Is that a law, or a rule, or made up bullshit? and, exactly what criteria makes it such. Or did you just make up a 3 year line in the sand because it fits your argument?

Would you like us to look up all the current Coaches and how many made tourney their first four years or would you then just create another bullshit hurdle to defend your position.

 

[birdforbogey]

It’s an opinion regarding the standards of a program that was (once, anyway) among the elite. How long do you think a coach at IU should be allowed to stay on without making the post-season? 5 years? 8? Coach for life?

3 years is enough — at least for that modest accomplishment.

With the grad transfer rules now a day, 3 years should be adequate time to build a team. What we have at IU is insanity, playing the same players over and over expecting different results. It is SO frustrating watching the same players not give a flying rip and playing with no urgency what so ever. That is coaching.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Is that a law, or a rule, or made up bullshit? and, exactly what criteria makes it such. Or did you just make up a 3 year line in the sand because it fits your argument?

No more arbitrary than thinking things will change with a fourth season...and believe me, with the extensive body of work we've seen, a fourth year is nothing more than an arbitrary decision.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

No more arbitrary than thinking things will change with a fourth season...and believe me, with the extensive body of work we've seen, a fourth year is nothing more than an arbitrary decision.

I think Aloha was right that the single biggest reason Archie will get a 4th year is money. I get that — but it’s pathetic.

And if we thought recruiting has been lackluster to now, just wait until Archie is a zombie coach.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I think Aloha was right that the single biggest reason Archie will get a 4th year is money. I get that — but it’s pathetic.

And if we thought recruiting has been lackluster to now, just wait until Archie is a zombie coach.

IU needs to do a better job in structuring these contracts. We should guarantee the first two years and have incentives for the rest of it with a way to get out easier if it doesn't work out.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

IU needs to do a better job in structuring these contracts. We should guarantee the first two years and have incentives for the rest of it with a way to get out easier if it doesn't work out.

That’s a pipe dream. We’d never be able to hire anybody worth hiring.

I wish this could happen. But it won’t. Big time coaching is a seller’s market.

 

[VanPastorMan]

That’s a pipe dream. We’d never be able to hire anybody worth hiring.

I wish this could happen. But it won’t. Big time coaching is a seller’s market.

I would agree if we are talking about Beard,Donovan, or Stevens. But did we really have to hamstring ourselves with Crean or Miller? Were they really big time coaches at the time?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I would agree if we are talking about Beard,Donovan, or Stevens. But did we really have to hamstring ourselves with Crean or Miller? Were they really big time coaches at the time?

Miller had his choice of destinations. OSU probably would’ve taken him before Holtmann, had the timing worked differently.

And Crean demanded and got an extension before he even coached his first game. I’m guessing he threatened to pull a Dakich if he didn’t get it — after finding out just how bare the cupboard was. After his FF run with Wade, Crean was often mentioned as a target hire by just about anybody with an opening.

We can’t do what you’re saying here. I wish we could. But we’d be doing it with somebody not in demand.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think Aloha was right that the single biggest reason Archie will get a 4th year is money. I get that — but it’s pathetic.

And if we thought recruiting has been lackluster to now, just wait until Archie is a zombie coach.

Agreed on all fronts

 

[bailey777]

I think Aloha was right that the single biggest reason Archie will get a 4th year is money. I get that — but it’s pathetic.

And if we thought recruiting has been lackluster to now, just wait until Archie is a zombie coach.

Good Lord. Assembly hall will be like the cast of the walking dead. Talk about insanity.

 

[Kyser123]

I agree with almost every word of this column. About the only words I’d change are from this sentence:

Because this season is far from lost, but more performances like Saturday’s will take it there, quickly.
​

I’d change “far from” to “not yet.” He’s right the season isn’t lost. But I don’t think he’s right that it’s “far from” being so.

He goes on...

And a fourth-straight season out of the NCAA tournament — third-straight under Miller — would put the Hoosiers in a precarious position.
​

I just think it would put us in a position where we should make a change — which would be really awkward with Glass leaving in May.

No coach who misses the tourney 3 straight years should be retained. His team’s a mess — again.

This is a joke. Same BS “soul searching “ comments from last year. It’s not soul searching; it’s called coaching and preparation.

 

[T.M.P.]

It’s an opinion regarding the standards of a program that was (once, anyway) among the elite. How long do you think a coach at IU should be allowed to stay on without making the post-season? 5 years? 8? Coach for life?

3 years is enough — at least for that modest accomplishment.

Oh an opinion... ya know what they say ..everyone has one and they all stink more than mine.

How long should a coach stay? Hmm, depends on expectations, reality, situation, circumstance, results, trends. I'd say evaluate him after the season is done, weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. I doubt he's let go this year and I doubt he gets another if the results aren't there next year. There's no magic year mark that stamps a coach as competent. To make statements like that is silly .. Miller is probably too inexperienced at this level, but things could change or they may not .. .. patience is a good thing.

Every game turns into a angst filled drama fest, accompanied by often ignorant reevaluations of the coach with the weight of 20 years of losing added on top of it. Not to mention the Tourette's like emotional stupid the malcontent and dumb bleat after every loss.

I like Osterman's opinion and agree with it. Hope Miller makes a change and goes to an 8 man core. I doubt he will .

I'd also question preparation and scouting both this year and last. Last year because of all the bad first halves and this year because of the lack of counters to opponent adjustments. Last year we adjusted well in game to most teams wrinkles - even if we lost - this year we're starting better but every team is out playing us in the second half and in every game. This league scouts the fk out of opponents and you have to be prepared every game. it looks like we're lacking in that dept. That's on the whole staff not just the head coach.

I also wonder if he micromanages guards and shooters. Not that it's always a bad thing but it would explain a lot. Our guards think and react too much. Basketball is a game of confidence, awareness and habit.

Finally, anyone who thought that this team was going to be anything other than what it is, while relying on Devonte Green to play smart, Justin Smith to become skilled, and Al Durham to become productive .. *eyeroll* ...your expectations were silly to begin with.

Also as a test; Name the teams in conference, other than Northwestern, where Al Durham and Devonte Green would get more than 20 minutes a game?

There may be a couple... there may not. We may have talent at some positions, most of it still young but our upperclassmen are horrible and our guards just aren't that good. With a so far unimproved Phinisee, who is still a very good defender, we may arguably have the 13th most talented backcourt in the conference.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Oh an opinion... ya know what they say ..everyone has one and they all stink more than mine.

How long should a coach stay? Hmm, depends on expectations, reality, situation, circumstance, results, trends. I'd say evaluate him after the season is done, weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. I doubt he's let go this year and I doubt he gets another if the results aren't there next year. There's no magic year mark that stamps a coach as competent. To make statements like that is silly .. Miller is probably too inexperienced at this level, but things could change or they may not .. .. patience is a good thing.

Every game turns into a angst filled drama fest, accompanied by often ignorant reevaluations of the coach with the weight of 20 years of losing added on top of it. Not to mention the Tourette's like emotional stupid the malcontent and dumb bleat after every loss.

I like Osterman's opinion and agree with it. Hope Miller makes a change and goes to an 8 man core. I doubt he will .

I'd also question preparation and scouting both this year and last. Last year because of all the bad first halves and this year because of the lack of counters to opponent adjustments. Last year we adjusted well in game to most teams wrinkles - even if we lost - this year we're starting better but every team is out playing us in the second half and in every game. This league scouts the fk out of opponents and you have to be prepared every game. it looks like we're lacking in that dept. That's on the whole staff not just the head coach.

I also wonder if he micromanages guards and shooters. Not that it's always a bad thing but it would explain a lot. Our guards think and react too much. Basketball is a game of confidence, awareness and habit.

Finally, anyone who thought that this team was going to be anything other than what it is, while relying on Devonte Green to play smart, Justin Smith to become skilled, and Al Durham to become productive .. *eyeroll* ...your expectations were silly to begin with.

Also as a test; Name the teams in conference, other than Northwestern, where Al Durham and Devonte Green would get more than 20 minutes a game?

There may be a couple... there may not. We may have talent at some positions, most of it still young but our upperclassmen are horrible and our guards just aren't that good.

With a so far unimproved Phinisee, who is still a very good defender, we may arguably have the 13th most talented backcourt in the conference.

Careful . . . you giving common sense answers here. Many will have difficulty following along.

 

[snarlcakes]

Careful . . . you giving common sense answers here. Many will have difficulty following along.

 

[minneman]

Ice cream!? I'm in!

 

[victorbear]

Oh an opinion... ya know what they say ..everyone has one and they all stink more than mine.

How long should a coach stay? Hmm, depends on expectations, reality, situation, circumstance, results, trends. I'd say evaluate him after the season is done, weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. I doubt he's let go this year and I doubt he gets another if the results aren't there next year. There's no magic year mark that stamps a coach as competent. To make statements like that is silly .. Miller is probably too inexperienced at this level, but things could change or they may not .. .. patience is a good thing.

Every game turns into a angst filled drama fest, accompanied by often ignorant reevaluations of the coach with the weight of 20 years of losing added on top of it. Not to mention the Tourette's like emotional stupid the malcontent and dumb bleat after every loss.

I like Osterman's opinion and agree with it. Hope Miller makes a change and goes to an 8 man core. I doubt he will .

I'd also question preparation and scouting both this year and last. Last year because of all the bad first halves and this year because of the lack of counters to opponent adjustments. Last year we adjusted well in game to most teams wrinkles - even if we lost - this year we're starting better but every team is out playing us in the second half and in every game. This league scouts the fk out of opponents and you have to be prepared every game. it looks like we're lacking in that dept. That's on the whole staff not just the head coach.

I also wonder if he micromanages guards and shooters. Not that it's always a bad thing but it would explain a lot. Our guards think and react too much. Basketball is a game of confidence, awareness and habit.

Finally, anyone who thought that this team was going to be anything other than what it is, while relying on Devonte Green to play smart, Justin Smith to become skilled, and Al Durham to become productive .. *eyeroll* ...your expectations were silly to begin with.

Also as a test; Name the teams in conference, other than Northwestern, where Al Durham and Devonte Green would get more than 20 minutes a game?

There may be a couple... there may not. We may have talent at some positions, most of it still young but our upperclassmen are horrible and our guards just aren't that good.

With a so far unimproved Phinisee, who is still a very good defender, we may arguably have the 13th most talented backcourt in the conference.

Who’s job is it to build a proper roster how long does that take...

 

[cshartle123]

Oh an opinion... ya know what they say ..everyone has one and they all stink more than mine.

How long should a coach stay? Hmm, depends on expectations, reality, situation, circumstance, results, trends. I'd say evaluate him after the season is done, weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. I doubt he's let go this year and I doubt he gets another if the results aren't there next year. There's no magic year mark that stamps a coach as competent. To make statements like that is silly .. Miller is probably too inexperienced at this level, but things could change or they may not .. .. patience is a good thing.

Every game turns into a angst filled drama fest, accompanied by often ignorant reevaluations of the coach with the weight of 20 years of losing added on top of it. Not to mention the Tourette's like emotional stupid the malcontent and dumb bleat after every loss.

I like Osterman's opinion and agree with it. Hope Miller makes a change and goes to an 8 man core. I doubt he will .

I'd also question preparation and scouting both this year and last. Last year because of all the bad first halves and this year because of the lack of counters to opponent adjustments. Last year we adjusted well in game to most teams wrinkles - even if we lost - this year we're starting better but every team is out playing us in the second half and in every game. This league scouts the fk out of opponents and you have to be prepared every game. it looks like we're lacking in that dept. That's on the whole staff not just the head coach.

I also wonder if he micromanages guards and shooters. Not that it's always a bad thing but it would explain a lot. Our guards think and react too much. Basketball is a game of confidence, awareness and habit.

Finally, anyone who thought that this team was going to be anything other than what it is, while relying on Devonte Green to play smart, Justin Smith to become skilled, and Al Durham to become productive .. *eyeroll* ...your expectations were silly to begin with.

Also as a test; Name the teams in conference, other than Northwestern, where Al Durham and Devonte Green would get more than 20 minutes a game?

There may be a couple... there may not. We may have talent at some positions, most of it still young but our upperclassmen are horrible and our guards just aren't that good. With a so far unimproved Phinisee, who is still a very good defender, we may arguably have the 13th most talented backcourt in the conference.

While I agree with your analysis, the sentiment I am picking up in your post is that this team should not be expected to be good because the personnel are not good. Expectations should be measured in wins and losses relative to the resources available to the coach. Any analyses more complicated than that is a justification for potentially missing the tournament in year three at a program with elite resources. While I think Archie will get another year with the transition of the AD, I don’t think he would deserve it. A good coach can get Indiana to the tournament in three full seasons.

 

[HereYouGoIU]

this team should be good, but clearly it again has personality issues. I agree wholeheartedly with his comments on lineups. We have a core group of players that this team will live and die with. As flawed as they are, that’s our team. It seems that every substitution is an experiment. I am left scratching my head at all the different lineups.

This team and next years team are built around the same players. Then the entire roster flips over. This is a team that is built to win now, and if we can’t play with the purpose, focus, grit, and intelligence needed to do so now, then we’re pretty much between a rock and a hard place.

there’s time to right the ship. But, it’s taking on water. If we don’t get the ship righted, I fear miller goes down with it (and frankly, I don’t see how it wouldn’t be on him).

3 games Into B1G

got time to get better.

discouraged yes.

down for count, no

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Ice cream!? I'm in!

I need beer. Anything less is a dealbreaker.

 

[twenty02]

It’s an opinion regarding the standards of a program that was (once, anyway) among the elite. How long do you think a coach at IU should be allowed to stay on without making the post-season? 5 years? 8? Coach for life?

3 years is enough — at least for that modest accomplishment.

Your opinion is disjointed from reality, and just smells of msg board fanboi talk.

It's not the opinion (or even close to it) by anyone that's not brainwashed into thinking there is something special or elite about IUBB.... there hasn't been for 25 years.... and counting.

The common opinion around the country of the job is that it's just "ok".... a decently fertile recruiting ground, but a fanbase with unrealistic expectations. And more or less ZERO recruiting profile nationally. One of things Archie was supposedly surprised by after getting here was how difficult it was to get any traction with national recruits @ IU. Maybe that's just him..... but I doubt it.

If one doesn't like Archie.... just wait to see what kind of hope and a prayer hire the next guy will be.
This team doesn't look any good..... but most IU teams for the last two decades haven't looked any good... so what's new?

Number one rule for any AD is you don't fire someone unless you have a pretty good idea who you are hiring and that they actually make you better. When Crean was fired, there were 3 pretty clear names (Archie, Mack and to a lesser degree Holtmann).

Now who is there? Look what UCLA just went through..... is someone like Cronin (or likely worse) gonna fly around here?

I guess we could just keep swapping out coaches every 3 years until we finally get to the very bottom of the league.... as I feel that's what this kind of emotional reaction will lead to. Let him play out his 4/5 years at a minimum..... if things are still trending flat to downward then you may be forced to move on.... but I don't expect any big change to come from the next guy.... or the 2 or 3 guys after that..... without a stroke of luck. Nobody with any level of proven high major results is taking this job..... so it's always going to the next up and comer from a smaller school.

Best we can hope for is Archie gets his first couple of classes to develop into a decent backcourt when they are upperclassmen (specifically Phin and Franklin).... our current upperclassmen guards are seriously bad... worst guards I can recall watching at IU, other than Crean's first year..... and if you don't have good guards in college BB, you have nothing. In hindsight he probably should have dumped most of the recruits from Crean and taking the ass kicking for the first few years starting from scratch. That's on Archie and he'll have to take the deserved heat for it.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Your opinion is disjointed from reality, and just smells of msg board fanboi talk.

It's not the opinion (or even close to it) by anyone that's not brainwashed into thinking there is something special or elite about IUBB.... there hasn't been for 25 years.... and counting.

The common opinion around the country of the job is that it's just "ok".... a decently fertile recruiting ground, but a fanbase with unrealistic expectations. And more or less ZERO recruiting profile nationally. One of things Archie was supposedly surprised by after getting here was how difficult it was to get any traction with national recruits @ IU. Maybe that's just him..... but I doubt it.

If one doesn't like Archie.... just wait to see what kind of hope and a prayer hire the next guy will be.
This team doesn't look any good..... but most IU teams for the last two decades haven't looked any good... so what's new?

Number one rule for any AD is you don't fire someone unless you have a pretty good idea who you are hiring and that they actually make you better. When Crean was fired, there were 3 pretty clear names (Archie, Mack and to a lesser degree Holtmann).

Now who is there? Look what UCLA just went through..... is someone like Cronin (or likely worse) gonna fly around here?

I guess we could just keep swapping out coaches every 3 years until we finally get to the very bottom of the league.... as I feel that's what this kind of emotional reaction will lead to. Let him play out his 4/5 years at a minimum..... if things are still trending flat to downward then you may be forced to move on.... but I don't expect any big change to come from the next guy.... or the 2 or 3 guys after that..... without a stroke of luck. Nobody with any level of proven high major results is taking this job..... so it's always going to the next up and comer from a smaller school.

Best we can hope for is Archie gets his first couple of classes to develop into a decent backcourt when they are upperclassmen (specifically Phin and Franklin).... our current upperclassmen guards are seriously bad... worst guards I can recall watching at IU, other than Crean's first year..... and if you don't have good guards in college BB, you have nothing. In hindsight he probably should have dumped most of the recruits from Crean and taking the ass kicking for the first few years starting from scratch. That's on Archie and he'll have to take the deserved heat for it.

I think you make a lot of great points, particularly regarding the notion that there is someone waiting in the wings that will be any better. I think what's frustrating is that we're reduced to an "average" program and as a result our expectations should reflect same, but we are top 5 in the nation in revenue earned and top 6 or 7 in monies spent on hoops. something doesn't add up. the economics of our program are blue blood elite.

 

[twenty02]

I think you make a lot of great points, particularly regarding the notion that there is someone waiting in the wings that will be any better. I think what's frustrating is that we're reduced to an "average" program and as a result our expectations should reflect same, but we are top 5 in the nation in revenue earned and top 6 or 7 in monies spent on hoops. something doesn't add up. the economics of our program are blue blood elite.

Texas, Tennessee and Nebraska football fans likely feel the same way.

 

[.Gerdis]

“There is nothing special about the water in Bloomington”. Any long time members of this forum (20+ years) remember that quote (from one of my favorite posters on peegs)?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Texas, Tennessee and Nebraska football fans likely feel the same way.

yup.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Your opinion is disjointed from reality, and just smells of msg board fanboi talk.

It's not the opinion (or even close to it) by anyone that's not brainwashed into thinking there is something special or elite about IUBB.... there hasn't been for 25 years.... and counting.

The common opinion around the country of the job is that it's just "ok".... a decently fertile recruiting ground, but a fanbase with unrealistic expectations. And more or less ZERO recruiting profile nationally. One of things Archie was supposedly surprised by after getting here was how difficult it was to get any traction with national recruits @ IU. Maybe that's just him..... but I doubt it.

If one doesn't like Archie.... just wait to see what kind of hope and a prayer hire the next guy will be.
This team doesn't look any good..... but most IU teams for the last two decades haven't looked any good... so what's new?

Number one rule for any AD is you don't fire someone unless you have a pretty good idea who you are hiring and that they actually make you better. When Crean was fired, there were 3 pretty clear names (Archie, Mack and to a lesser degree Holtmann).

Now who is there? Look what UCLA just went through..... is someone like Cronin (or likely worse) gonna fly around here?

I guess we could just keep swapping out coaches every 3 years until we finally get to the very bottom of the league.... as I feel that's what this kind of emotional reaction will lead to. Let him play out his 4/5 years at a minimum..... if things are still trending flat to downward then you may be forced to move on.... but I don't expect any big change to come from the next guy.... or the 2 or 3 guys after that..... without a stroke of luck. Nobody with any level of proven high major results is taking this job..... so it's always going to the next up and comer from a smaller school.

Best we can hope for is Archie gets his first couple of classes to develop into a decent backcourt when they are upperclassmen (specifically Phin and Franklin).... our current upperclassmen guards are seriously bad... worst guards I can recall watching at IU, other than Crean's first year..... and if you don't have good guards in college BB, you have nothing. In hindsight he probably should have dumped most of the recruits from Crean and taking the ass kicking for the first few years starting from scratch. That's on Archie and he'll have to take the deserved heat for it.

So because IU has been down for 20 years the fans should be okay with sucking for the foreseeable future? IU has won 5 national titles a boat load of Big Ten titles and been considered an elite program for a majority of their history, fans have a right to be annoyed about how the program has fallen.

Post like this blow my mind because while you're getting on fans for being critical, you're admitting that IU has completely fell off as a program over the last 20 years. Like IU missing 7 of the last 11 tournaments is okay because, "well we've been down for 20 years, what's another 3 without a tourney appearance"?

Your post reeks of accepting mediocrity and just because you're okay with it doesn't mean other people have to be. Everyone does have the right to their opinion and my opinion is 3 years is more than enough to show progress (we've made none) and make the NCAA tournament.

By the way, in the last class Archie lost a national recruit (Ethan Morton) to Purdue. Does Purdue have more recruiting profile nationally than IU? If IU isn't landing the recruits Archie wants then that's his own fault for not putting a winning program on the floor and getting recruits excited about playing for him. More games like the Arkansas/Maryland games along with the 11 game losing streak last year aren't going to excite recruits that have other (better) options. Overall, IU has a great brand and history, when they're winning IU recruits itself.

 

[bailey777]

Your opinion is disjointed from reality, and just smells of msg board fanboi talk.

It's not the opinion (or even close to it) by anyone that's not brainwashed into thinking there is something special or elite about IUBB.... there hasn't been for 25 years.... and counting.

The common opinion around the country of the job is that it's just "ok".... a decently fertile recruiting ground, but a fanbase with unrealistic expectations. And more or less ZERO recruiting profile nationally. One of things Archie was supposedly surprised by after getting here was how difficult it was to get any traction with national recruits @ IU. Maybe that's just him..... but I doubt it.

If one doesn't like Archie.... just wait to see what kind of hope and a prayer hire the next guy will be.
This team doesn't look any good..... but most IU teams for the last two decades haven't looked any good... so what's new?

Number one rule for any AD is you don't fire someone unless you have a pretty good idea who you are hiring and that they actually make you better. When Crean was fired, there were 3 pretty clear names (Archie, Mack and to a lesser degree Holtmann).

Now who is there? Look what UCLA just went through..... is someone like Cronin (or likely worse) gonna fly around here?

I guess we could just keep swapping out coaches every 3 years until we finally get to the very bottom of the league.... as I feel that's what this kind of emotional reaction will lead to. Let him play out his 4/5 years at a minimum..... if things are still trending flat to downward then you may be forced to move on.... but I don't expect any big change to come from the next guy.... or the 2 or 3 guys after that..... without a stroke of luck. Nobody with any level of proven high major results is taking this job..... so it's always going to the next up and comer from a smaller school.

Best we can hope for is Archie gets his first couple of classes to develop into a decent backcourt when they are upperclassmen (specifically Phin and Franklin).... our current upperclassmen guards are seriously bad... worst guards I can recall watching at IU, other than Crean's first year..... and if you don't have good guards in college BB, you have nothing. In hindsight he probably should have dumped most of the recruits from Crean and taking the ass kicking for the first few years starting from scratch. That's on Archie and he'll have to take the deserved heat for it.

So you just said don't move unless you have a coach who will makes you better? Well didn't surfer Fred just do that to crean but so far we are actually worse off with Archie. Your logic is just keep him and pray it possibly works out in two to three years. No thanks I am more than willing to gamble on somebody else after what I have seen in 2.5 years.

 

[bailey777]

So because IU has been down for 20 years the fans should be okay with sucking for the foreseeable future? IU has won 5 national titles a boat load of Big Ten titles and been considered an elite program for a majority of their history, fans have a right to be annoyed about how the program has fallen.

Post like this blow my mind because while you're getting on fans for being critical, you're admitting that IU has completely fell off as a program over the last 20 years. Like IU missing 7 of the last 11 tournaments is okay because, "well we've been down for 20 years, what's another 3 without a tourney appearance"?

Your post reeks of accepting mediocrity and just because you're okay with it doesn't mean other people have to be. Everyone does have the right to their opinion and my opinion is 3 years is more than enough to show progress (we've made none) and make the NCAA tournament.

By the way, in the last class Archie lost a national recruit (Ethan Morton) to Purdue. Does Purdue have more recruiting profile nationally than IU? If IU isn't landing the recruits Archie wants then that's his own fault for not putting a winning program on the floor and getting recruits excited about playing for him. More games like the Arkansas/Maryland games along with the 11 game losing streak last year aren't going to excite recruits that have other (better) options. Overall, IU has a great brand and history, when they're winning IU recruits itself.

That losing streak likely helped send Brooks to Kentucky. He is playing like 10 minutes a game and he scores like 2 or 3 points. He would have helped and he was ours to lose at one point. Losing has big consequences.

 

[snarlcakes]

Your opinion is disjointed from reality, and just smells of msg board fanboi talk.

It's not the opinion (or even close to it) by anyone that's not brainwashed into thinking there is something special or elite about IUBB.... there hasn't been for 25 years.... and counting.

The common opinion around the country of the job is that it's just "ok".... a decently fertile recruiting ground, but a fanbase with unrealistic expectations. And more or less ZERO recruiting profile nationally. One of things Archie was supposedly surprised by after getting here was how difficult it was to get any traction with national recruits @ IU. Maybe that's just him..... but I doubt it.

If one doesn't like Archie.... just wait to see what kind of hope and a prayer hire the next guy will be.
This team doesn't look any good..... but most IU teams for the last two decades haven't looked any good... so what's new?

Number one rule for any AD is you don't fire someone unless you have a pretty good idea who you are hiring and that they actually make you better. When Crean was fired, there were 3 pretty clear names (Archie, Mack and to a lesser degree Holtmann).

Now who is there? Look what UCLA just went through..... is someone like Cronin (or likely worse) gonna fly around here?

I guess we could just keep swapping out coaches every 3 years until we finally get to the very bottom of the league.... as I feel that's what this kind of emotional reaction will lead to. Let him play out his 4/5 years at a minimum..... if things are still trending flat to downward then you may be forced to move on.... but I don't expect any big change to come from the next guy.... or the 2 or 3 guys after that..... without a stroke of luck. Nobody with any level of proven high major results is taking this job..... so it's always going to the next up and comer from a smaller school.

Best we can hope for is Archie gets his first couple of classes to develop into a decent backcourt when they are upperclassmen (specifically Phin and Franklin).... our current upperclassmen guards are seriously bad... worst guards I can recall watching at IU, other than Crean's first year..... and if you don't have good guards in college BB, you have nothing. In hindsight he probably should have dumped most of the recruits from Crean and taking the ass kicking for the first few years starting from scratch. That's on Archie and he'll have to take the deserved heat for it.

Oh great, another hold me I'm a hoosier post. Also, it’s not a common opinion. It’s your opinion.

 

[twenty02]

So because IU has been down for 20 years the fans should be okay with sucking for the foreseeable future? IU has won 5 national titles a boat load of Big Ten titles and been considered an elite program for a majority of their history, fans have a right to be annoyed about how the program has fallen.

Post like this blow my mind because while you're getting on fans for being critical, you're admitting that IU has completely fell off as a program over the last 20 years. Like IU missing 7 of the last 11 tournaments is okay because, "well we've been down for 20 years, what's another 3 without a tourney appearance"?

Your post reeks of accepting mediocrity and just because you're okay with it doesn't mean other people have to be. Everyone does have the right to their opinion and my opinion is 3 years is more than enough to show progress (we've made none) and make the NCAA tournament.

By the way, in the last class Archie lost a national recruit (Ethan Morton) to Purdue. Does Purdue have more recruiting profile nationally than IU? If IU isn't landing the recruits Archie wants then that's his own fault for not putting a winning program on the floor and getting recruits excited about playing for him. More games like the Arkansas/Maryland games along with the 11 game losing streak last year aren't going to excite recruits that have other (better) options. Overall, IU has a great brand and history, when they're winning IU recruits itself.

Everyone is annoyed with how it's fallen. My only opinion is that it's extremely unlikely that any new coach is going to change that trajectory..... at least not quickly. Possible yes, but unlikely. I think the odds are just as good that Archie has built a decent program in another couple years as there is that the "next guy" has the magic beans. There is no rule that the next guy is better.... it's entirely possible he's even worse.

The time for flat refusing mediocrity was 18 years ago. That ship has long sailed, and no amount of hand- wringing will change that.

 

[Hatchets7times]

For all the ..I want Archie gone yesterday guy's.
This ought to set your hair on fire deal.
So he comes back next year....Lots of experience would come back..Let's say he gets 22 wins and a tournament bid..
He'll be here another 5 after that..
So you really need two trash year's

 

[bailey777]

For all the ..I want Archie gone yesterday guy's.
This ought to set your hair on fire deal.
So he comes back next year....Lots of experience would come back..Let's say he gets 22 wins and a tournament bid..
He'll be here another 5 after that..
So you really need two trash year's

22 wins is a pipe dream with this roster of guys who can't shoot as things stand today. There is no savior coming in next year to help.