Don’t know. But we know that delta and omicron break through like the vaccine isn’t there at all. We know the chance of death is reduced but we don’t know it slows delta and omicron long term effects at all.
Remember I’m not hypothesizing. I’m apparently one of a few that is willing to say I DONT KNOW. But the more adverse events that keep appearing are very problematic and the lack of serious effort to determine how to treat the recently infected are quite bothersome. Aren’t they?
I have not supported most mandates, BUT people who frequently come into contact with people at risk should be vaccinated. So if a hospital wants to tell an ER nurse she has to work elsewhere in the hospital they can in my world.
IMO forcing an ER Nurse to vaxx is the most counter intuitive path available. That nurse probably has more immunity than you and I can possibly imagine.
We need to watch for severe tinnitus and trigeminal neuralgia. It is definitely occurring. Is it caused by virus, vaccines, or both.In the Short term you may be right. But the Long term hasn’t been worked out and measured yet. We don’t have any idea of the long term effects yet.
We do know that the mRNA vaccines have spiked myocarditis incidence with over 1k confirmed cases this year alone. Background incidence is much lower than this and it’s caused many countries to not give these vaccines to under 30.
Fact Check-Graph showing increase in myo/pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccine rollout does not confirm link
A visual showing reports of myocarditis and pericarditis increasing in the United States in tandem with the country’s COVID-19 vaccine rollout has gone viral online – and has been posted alongside claims that the conditions are linked to vaccines. The Centers for Disease...www.reuters.com
Every quarter more information comes out. I expect this will continue years from now until we fully understand the long term ramifications of the vaccine and its risk to the otherwise healthy population. If I’m an employer there’s no way I mandate vaccines. There’s way too large a chance I’ll be sued into bankruptcy in the Not too distant future.
How did the USA force the smallpox vaccine? Or was it a good sales job by local doctors, schools…etc. I also wonder how comprehensive the vaccination rate was back in those days when many folks lived off the land and away from the grid. I am not disputing your idea but I am genuinely curious.
States started requiring vaccination in the middle of the 19th century. By the 20th century, the disease was virtually eradicated in the USA.
Not sure what you mean about a lack of effort to treat the recently infected. Pfizer reported in the last day or so positive results on its early therapy pill. And I'm pretty sure death rates continue to fall with monoclonal antibody treatment.
If you follow the tracker on The Guardian (useful for us, since the UK is a couple of weeks ahead of us on Covid trends, it seems), the cases have spiked to the highest yet, but the deaths remain relatively low. I assume this is mostly delta and just now transitioning to omicron, so that means we are making progress even pre-omicron in making Covid less lethal (and yes, I know deaths are a lagging indicator, but this trend is several weeks old).
Here is an example:
There have been vaccines recalled over the years for harmful long-term effects. Every one of them showed indications of measurable and obvious problems within 3 months of dosing. Pfizer trial participants are at 17 months. Long term effects first showing up now or at any later time would be unprecented in the history of human vaccination.
The MABs are exactly what I’m talking about. They should be given to people before they even get admitted to the hospital if you’re above a certain age or have X risk factors. But they’re not able to meet demand because they weren’t prioritized anywhere near as much as the vaccines were.
I hear you about the “requiring” …but what sanctions did the states use to enforce the requirements? Probably we were a less diverse and more compliant society in the mid-1800s. Maybe the civil war shook the non-compliance out of the population. Skeptical about how gold miners and buffaloes hunters got their vaccines. Maybe their ignorance was a blessing and they accepted the new-fangeled medicine?
Stop calling yourself Bailey. That's an insult to him.
Well there’s a clear difference here right between the first large scale mRNA deployment and traditional vaccine delivery.
To be fair, this is the first ever widespread mRNA vaccine program. Yes, I do understand that the technology has been developed over decades, and yes, I understand that there is no theoretical justification for extra concern. I'm not concerned. But there is an argument to be made that it is, if not a brand new technology, at the very least, a brand new implementation of untested technology.
Thanks for posting this. I’ve got two jabs December 2020 and January 2021. Haven’t decided on booster.
Tell him to get the jab, already. You understand his hesitancy, but the odds are in his favor if he gets the jab and doesn't risk his career. Sometimes, even when there are no great choices, there's still a choice that is obviously better than the alternatives. This is one of them.
Yes, we now have a much, much more simple formulation with no adjvents, no preservatives, no virus derived materials.
And the spike in myocarditis - much of which is nonrecoverable damage to the heart?
I read Marvin’s post and thank him for his insights and work. I am reminded of a basketball tactic basic drilled into everyone who played the game. Time, score and ball.
I echo many of your concerns Ranger but I think Mark is right that you always have to compare it to Covid: heart issue stats from vax vs heart issues from Covid.
Shooter is probably right. We probably have enough data by now to know the vaccine is way safer than the disease. But I can understand why people are hesitant. "Probably" is a pretty weak word when you are asked to take a risk - however small - on voluntarily.
Common sense suggests mRNA vaccines should be safer than traditional vaccines. But it's still a new thing, and the average American isn't a medical specialist, so it's understandable why we are hesitant to trust a new thing.
Please note I'm only talking about normal people. I'm not talking about people who are fearful of the vaccine because it's a lizard people conspiracy. F*ck those nutjobs.
It’s not that. The hesitancy should be simple: it’s clear the current vaccines hardly slow transmission if at all. So for those that are not in danger from the respiratory / pulmonary symptoms if infected, why should we be mandated to get it? The vaccine at this point protects one person and one person only.
