Likely too many facts..
Screws up the mob mentality.
Keep Allen
- Thread starter MyTeamIsOnTheFloor
- Start date
Screws up the mob mentality.
How many 2019 opponents had winning records? And one Covid issues didn’t prevent us from practicing. I know since I was present for a couple of them.
The winning records argument doesn't mention that none of those teams played out of conference games that year.
I don't think Allen should be retained but he did have two really good years.
if we're stuck with allen our best bet is for dolson to pony up the money to hire a couple of proven coordinators. allen needs to step aside and be strictly the head cheerleader and let them run the show. if that happens we might be able to win 6 next year.I’ve talked it through in my head.
The Mark Stoops comparison below convinced me to convince myself.
We are not a “have.” We are a “have not.”
We cannot rebuild as if we WERE a “have.”
We must protect our foundation - when we have one - more than most.
Stoops:
In his 10th season at Kentucky.
Kentucky has a small population and fights Louisville for in-state talent.
Kentucky is in the SEC and usually has 4-5 games equal to our Big 3.
Broke Bryant’s record of 60 wins at Kentucky this year and is now their all-time winning coach.
Stoops roots are in Youngstown, Ohio.
Played at Iowa.
Kentucky is his first HC job after 22 years on HS and college staffs on defense.
His first 3 years he went 12-24.
He is 53-33 since then, with 1 losing season since then (Covid 2020, 5-6 with a bowl loss).
He is the first Kentucky coach to coach a 10th season.
AD Mitch Barnhart fired Guy Morriss after he went 7-5 his second year after Air Raid Mumme. People were shocked but he wanted his mentor from Oregon State - Rich Brooks. He kept Brooks after 3 losing seasons when the fans wanted him gone, and Brooks then had 4 straight winning seasons. Foundational. Joker Phillips went 11-14, then 2-10 (13-24) and got fired in 3. Barnhart then kept Stoops when the fans wanted him gone at 12-24. They suffered 5 straight losing seasons, then got 53 wins.
Allen spent 24 years getting to his first HC job.
He went 10-14, then 8-5 for 18-19 in his first 3.
6-2 in 2020 made him 24-21 after 4, with a COY and 2 great hires (Deboer and Wommack).
2-10 made him 26-31.
4 or 5 wins this year.
I suspect Barnhart would keep Allen.
I expect Dolson will keep him and other staff changes will come Sunday.
Just a comparative guess.
End of the day, Allen has been responsible for success using Wilson’s player foundation and his own hires and his own early recruits, followed by 2 turds. He is the bird in the hand When open season portal hunting for recruits has taken over, and is still being massaged. So the question is can you be certain to do better in the current market? Will the next 3 be foundation BUILDING or letting Allen use his own launchpad, to the extent one is left after 6-11 or 7-10?
At Michigan you fire Allen, because you KNOW coaching talent will pour in to pick from.
At Indiana, you keep him and get him as much coal for the fire as you can - staff and roster.
Yes, reasonable minds can differ.
But after watching Pont through Wilson, THIS is the hill I’m willing to die on.
He isnt perfect.
Rah Rah wears thin quick and his has now rubbed me the wrong way and failed to sustain winning.
Let’s hope he tones down the feelings and ramps up the football fundamentals.
Anyway, when Dolson calls me (which he won’t) I’ll tell him to pour money into football NIL and staff salary and recruiting and become the Candy-Striped Fighting Indiana Hoosier Bison - the most powerful beast of the plains - immovable and unstoppable, led by Coach Tom All-in.
I was actually referring to the 2019 season, wherein we beat 8 pretty bad teams and lost to five pretty good ones. Not our fault as we play the schedule in front of us, but we didn’t beat anyone good (though we played PSU close). As for 2020, I think we’ve all seen it for the exception that it was / is, so there’s no real need to plow that ground again.
Dumb argument.
Half the league loses every season.
The "good" teams pad their record with wins against the crappy teams.
Ohio State padded their schedule this year with wins over losers Arkansas State (4-8), Rutgers (4-7), MSU (5-6), NW (1-10), and IU (4-7).
Surely, with all your practice, you can come up with better complaints about IU wins.
It' s as though people want Allen to be like Tom Landry and never show any emotion.
I’m not complaining about wins, only about the frequency of them (or, specifically, the lack thereof). And we’re not remotely like Ohio State. What I try not to do is make excuses for the high number of losses. That’s the “argument” that I find to be dumb.
You absolutely are complaining about the type of wins we had.
You downplaying our 2019 and 2020 seasons are proof by that. Otherwise you would give props for the seasons we had, which you can't do.
How many of our wins were against quality opponents? Why is that a question you choose to not address? And we’ve already figured out what happened in 2020, and why. We can’t and shouldn’t give back those wins, but very few people don’t understand why they occurred. What I still don’t understand is why so many excuse the losses.
We beat the teams we were suppose to beat. It's pretty simple. Yet people want to shit on the team because they weren't good enough wins. We still won those games. We won those games because we were better then those teams that we played. It's not hard to understand.
In 2020, nobody in conference played any out of conference teams, so do you think we would have beaten a couple of teams with winning records if say Wisconsin had been able to pad their schedule or Maryland who finished one game under .500? I have a feeling they would have.
Outside of Parsons for Penn State, who was sitting out in the 2020 season that we didn't play? I can't think of anyone, so if I'm missing some players, let me know.
i Was just pointing out that we didn’t beat anyone good in 2019. That’s fact, no matter how much anyone chooses to avoid it. In 2020, we had a huge advantage because our Covid issues were overwhelmingly in the summer, while just about everyone else had big outbreaks in the Fall. This allowed us to practice and prepare as a full unit, while most of our competitors could not. It was always about far more than just having one player missing on another team. Lol. That wasn't a mystery if you followed that season. All of these things in our favor shifted away from us to a more level playing field in 2021 and 2022, and the results confirm it. Hope that gives clarity for you.
This board, and you in particular, offer nothing close that could be construed as clarity. Arrogant to suggest so.
It’s not arrogant when it’s accurate. As I’ve recently said, we have the program we’ve both demanded and deserved. As a long time fan, I find that both incredibly frustrating but also utterly undeniable.
Ok, so what do you think the fans should do to make the football program better?
Demand that the people in positions of leadership either improve it dramatically or step aside / be removed in favor of qualified people who will ensure that a sustainably successful program is built. We’ve never taken that approach, and the results prove it. We’ve also never made that anm consequential enough that it determined whether leadership stays or is replaced.
The type of team you are describing is a Pat Fitzgerald team. It worked for a while with him, but he needs better players. And actually, we do have better players than Northwestern. I'd be all for hiring Fitz if he gets canned up there.
Actually, a lot of posters did have an issue with him being out of control on the sidelines in those 2 years. I think it cost us in the Gator Bowl because he clearly wasn't managing th clock very well at the end of the first half.
It's OK to be excited, but a HC needs to be thinking clearly on the sidelines.
That would have to come from the big money donors and there is no evidence, that I can see at least, that they care enough about IU football to do anything like that
2019 was a hell of an effort and covid cost us an I on the chain in 2020.
If I've followed along correctly, you're connected with IU or the football team in some way? If so, what steps have you taken with the administration to get the football team to move away from the current coaching staff?
I want CTA to succeed but I do question any measurable progress occurring. I am in the camp that Coach needs to relinquish his DC responsibilities and focus on just the head coaching role. He needs to be able to make quicker personnel changes and establish higher performance standards for all.
You’re right, and it’s precisely my point. Not enough people care about our program to make it a winner. We have always had exactly what we’re both demanded and deserved. A few of us would like more.
I know some people closely connected to the IU Athletic Department and football program so, yes, I have some insight into both football, basketball, and the department and University as a whole. As for your “what have you done” question, I’ve never once pretended that this isn’t about leadership, nor have I ever been surprised that people in leadership positions with zero experience as stewards of major college sports programs have consistently failed to lead us to a sustainably winning football program. Most people who post here have a different view, as do most IU fans. Many others just don’t care.
You speak in vague pablum BS language. “Some people don’‘t care” is neither wisdom nor helpful. You remind me of the guy who bitched about the Senate ”refusing” to override a President’s veto, and when I asked him how many votes they had, he said “ I don’t know.”
You are spot on. IU’s AD is in over his head, just like the guy before him. These are both guys who never had any AD experience before they stepped into their roles. Nothing more than fan boys. Hiring coaches with no college head coaching experience and then people are dumbfounded that this is what happens? We get exactly what they hired.
And you speak like someone who constantly excuses a losing program. That’s obviously your choice, but some of us want more. That I have insight into the program that you do not simply informs my opinion about such matters.
Aidan Hutchinson (played less than one quarter vs IU due to season-ending injury)
Yep, that’s me. Constantly excusing a losing program. Been doing that now since ‘67.
I just wish I could be like you and “want more” instead of wanting IU to lose. I just can’t help it. I hate winning. Character flaw?
Hell, I wish we could all be like you, with secret inside sources that help us care more deeply while we criticize all the losing-lovers.
But thanks for the $25,000,000 I assume you are giving IU tomorrow to cure our losing program.
I look forward to the story about your anonymous gift to your anonymous contacts.
Name the coach YOU claim we coulda and shoulda hired to replace DeBoer. Then name your contact “close to” the program who you told we should hire (name of coach).
Name the coach YOU claim we coulda and shoulda hired to replace Wommack. Then name your contact “close to” the program who you told we should hire (name of coach).
Or did you withhold this info from your inside contacts?
I was talking about choosing to sit out the season, not missing a season to injury.
Doesn’t erase the 2019 season, which was still a high mater mark for this program over the past 30 years.
Understood, but IU (especially its OL) did benefit greatly from not having to block him.most of that game, similar to Parsons.
Kinda strange injury too iirc. Got his ankle rolled and it was initially not thought to be as serious as it turned out (broken bone). Another in the long line of “freak injuries at.Memorial Stadium” I guess.
Maybe that entire facility should get its own exorcism. Not to mention a new turf.
IU had good quarterback play those two years also (Ramsey and Penix). That's on the coaching staff to recruit and develop the players coming in behind them but that's a big difference between those years and the past two. That's more of an impact than the schedule.
We had plenty of chances against marginal teams the past two years and we couldn't put together complete games. Outside of OSU, UM and PSU we should be competitive in our schedules, which I'd say means expected to split the rest of those games.
It should be expected to beat the 2 bottom feeders, lose to OSU/UM/PSU, and win 3 or 4 of the other 7 games. So that's 5 or 6 wins as a baseline. No reason we shouldn't expect to compete with anyone in the West or with MSU, Maryland and Rutgers.
QB play has sucked these last two years, no doubt about it.
So by that same logic, your giving IU a pass this since we lost Bedord, Jones and Camper all to injury this year, who are the three best without a doubt at their positions, correct?
Or do other teams get the luxury to play the injury card and Indiana doesn't?
To pat on the pads or the helmet ..
Absolutely..
To act like coach ..If I was a recruit. I'd pass. Thinking he was way over the top..
