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Haley jumped out to 6-0 lead after Dixville Notch completed vote just after midnight.

I don’t consider her a shill, but she’s a moderate conservative. I think she is the Republican version of Manchin. It’s good for the Republican party long term if she loses. Someone like DeSantis or Vivek should be the nominee after Trump. Haley would be a good candidate if it was 2004.
I think Desantis is a moderate Republican. I think he went hard maga to try and steal votes from Trump and it mostly backfired. Don't **** with The Mouse. Classic blunder. Like a land war in Asia.

Vivek is a complete fraud. No wonder Trumpers like him.
 
I don’t consider her a shill, but she’s a moderate conservative. I think she is the Republican version of Manchin. It’s good for the Republican party long term if she loses. Someone like DeSantis or Vivek should be the nominee after Trump. Haley would be a good candidate if it was 2004.
I’m old enough to remember when she was the conservative tea party candidate running against the GOP establishment
 
I think Desantis is a moderate Republican. I think he went hard maga to try and steal votes from Trump and it mostly backfired. Don't **** with The Mouse. Classic blunder. Like a land war in Asia.

Vivek is a complete fraud. No wonder Trumpers like him.
I like Vivek. He’s extremely intelligent and successful. Foreign concepts for Democrats.
 
They will not learn a lesson from the loss, which is likely to be a rout with a conviction. They’d rather go down with Trump and elect a Democrat President than back a Republican that can win.
i'm all for backing haley and getting biden out of office above all things. after his far left posture when he entered office i want him, pete, harris - all of them out. that said aloha i think that desantis/trump/viv is actually the majority of hte party going forward.
 
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i'm all for backing haley and getting biden out of office above all things. after his far left posture when he entered office i want him, pete, harris - all of them out. that said aloha i think that desantis/trump/viv is actually the majority of hte party going forward.
They may be and it won’t be my party. It’ll be time to replace it because it’ll be a perennial loser.
 
This whole idea that Haley is a moderate establishment shill is horsecrap. . Unfortunately that stuff sticks because media and loads of people have no abilty other than going along with group think.

I don’t think Iowa says much because turnout was so low. NH SC are not determinative either. I think Super Tuesday is the real deal.

FWIW, if I were advising Haley, I’d tell her to embrace MAGA and tell voters she would be better at the GOP agenda than Trump. Trump cost us a lot of 2022 votes.
Too late now. And Trump wouldn't let her.
 
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They will not learn a lesson from the loss, which is likely to be a rout with a conviction. They’d rather go down with Trump and elect a Democrat President than back a Republican that can win.
i'll add aloha that i think our country has real problems going forward. i was reading a few of the posts under brad's post for what dem's would like and in keeping with biden and the progressives i couldn't get on board with any of htat. they couldn't get on board with anything the viv would support. we have a very philosophically divided country i fear. not sure why or how we got here but we do.
 
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c9e394f1f4dc0c15facbf8b126054152.jpg


Beautiful looking town. What am I doing in a city? Makes me want to liquidate everything I own move there and learn how to whittle.
Learn? To whittle?

sigh.
 
They may be and it won’t be my party. It’ll be time to replace it because it’ll be a perennial loser.
Yeah I think you’ll need a new party. I have numerous Dem friends in the same boat. They hate Biden and the progrsssive bs. These are cops and laborers and blue collar guys who were once a given for the Dem vote. Hell my family. They can’t stand Biden. Voted Dem all their lives
 
i'll add aloha that i think our country has real problems going forward. i was reading a few of the posts under brad's post for what dem's would like and in keeping with biden and the progressives i couldn't get on board with any of htat. they couldn't get on board with anything the viv would support. we have a very philosophically divided country i fear. not sure why or how we got here but we do.
We'll get through it. Just like the hippies died off for a bit, so will these little bastages that we parents created.
 
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Yeah I think you’ll need a new party. I have numerous Dem friends in the same boat. They hate Biden and the progrsssive bs. These are cops and laborers and blue collar guys who were once a given for the Dem vote. Hell my family. They can’t stand Biden. Voted Dem all their lives
Can’t be a Democrat, can’t be a Trumpster. Has to be a New Republican Party.
 
Can’t be a Democrat, can’t be a Trumpster. Has to be a New Republican Party.
and again the dems are going through the same thing. i think the system needs to be reconfigured so that third parties etc have a viable opportunity. for a true mod party. a new republican party. progressive party. whatever
 
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and again the dems are going through the same thing. i think the system needs to be reconfigured so that third parties etc have a viable opportunity. for a true mod party. a new republican party. progressive party. whatever
I’d prefer a Center Right Pragmatic Party.
 
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I’m old enough to remember when she was the conservative tea party candidate running against the GOP establishment
I’m all ears? I haven’t seen or read anything I’d consider tea party conservative. She did in one debate mention cutting benefits for SS, but it was only for younger people. I’d be fine with it, but it’s a dick move if you don’t make cuts across the board in my opinion. Boomers have bankrupted the country and should have their benefits cut as well.
 
I’m all ears? I haven’t seen or read anything I’d consider tea party conservative. She did in one debate mention cutting benefits for SS, but it was only for younger people. I’d be fine with it, but it’s a dick move if you don’t make cuts across the board in my opinion. Boomers have bankrupted the country and should have their benefits cut as well.
Whew. You want to cut SS benefits for those who are barely getting by on their meager benefits while they’re getting killed by inflation and rising real estate taxes?

If you really want to see a riot at the Capitol let’s give this a shot.
 
Whew. You want to cut SS benefits for those who are barely getting by on their meager benefits while they’re getting killed by inflation and rising real estate taxes?

If you really want to see a riot at the Capitol let’s give this a shot.
Why are they so reliant on SS for their retirement? They have failed to save adequately and should bare the consequences.
 
Whew. You want to cut SS benefits for those who are barely getting by on their meager benefits while they’re getting killed by inflation and rising real estate taxes?

If you really want to see a riot at the Capitol let’s give this a shot.
A riot of over 65ers? I want to see it.

What are they going to do? Throw their pudding at the Capitol building at 3 pm then go out to dinner?
 
Why are they so reliant on SS for their retirement? They have failed to save adequately and should bare the consequences.
You really don’t want them to bare anything.

So, you’re all for throwing them out in the street? Good to know.
 
I’m all ears? I haven’t seen or read anything I’d consider tea party conservative. She did in one debate mention cutting benefits for SS, but it was only for younger people. I’d be fine with it, but it’s a dick move if you don’t make cuts across the board in my opinion. Boomers have bankrupted the country and should have their benefits cut as well.
It was 2010 when she was running for SC Governor. She received several endorsements from the tea party.
 
You really don’t want them to bare anything.

So, you’re all for throwing them out in the street? Good to know.
We're not talking about completely removing their SS. Stop catastrophizing. That's progressive crap and you're better than that. But escalated cuts and a gradual raising of eligibility age as you move down age brackets? That's just good policy.

fwiw. I probably wouldn't touch anything for people within 10 years of eligibility, but I'm definitely not against it. The boomers can help fix this problem as they are largely responsible for it.
 
Whew. You want to cut SS benefits for those who are barely getting by on their meager benefits while they’re getting killed by inflation and rising real estate taxes?

If you really want to see a riot at the Capitol let’s give this a shot.
Yes, but don’t you worry they won’t cut it and future generations will be the ones who suffer.
 
Yes, but don’t you worry they won’t cut it and future generations will be the ones who suffer.
There definitely have to be adjustments - raising retirement ages, taxing more and raising the income amount taxed. I’ve seen projections that, with no changes, the system will fail in the 2030s unless benefits are cut approximately 23%. I can’t even begin to imagine that a person getting $1,500 monthly could live on just a little more than $1,000 per month.
 
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This whole idea that Haley is a moderate establishment shill is horsecrap. . Unfortunately that stuff sticks because media and loads of people have no abilty other than going along with group think.

I don’t think Iowa says much because turnout was so low. NH SC are not determinative either. I think Super Tuesday is the real deal.

FWIW, if I were advising Haley, I’d tell her to embrace MAGA and tell voters she would be better at the GOP agenda than Trump. Trump cost us a lot of 2022 votes.
Might be too late for that … the big donor establishment perception looks likey to stick.
 
There definitely have to be adjustments - raising retirement ages, taxing more and raising the income amount taxed. I’ve seen projections that, with no changes, the system will fail in the 2030s unless benefits are cut approximately 23%. I can’t even begin to imagine that a person getting $1,500 monthly could live on just a little more than $1,000 per month.
I wouldn’t cut any current amounts. It would be future adjustments, but everyone would share in the pain some. For example current SS recipients would get smaller increases each year and younger people wouldn’t be able to retire until 70.
 
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I don’t think you can back this up with very much. That comes from pundits, not from what she has said or done.
What did she accomplish as Governor? Did she pass school choice? Did she lower taxes? Grow the economy? Shrink the government? Please change my mind and point to some of her conservative victories. Also, I don’t consider spending endlessly on the military/wars a conservative position.
 
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We're not talking about completely removing their SS. Stop catastrophizing. That's progressive crap and you're better than that. But escalated cuts and a gradual raising of eligibility age as you move down age brackets? That's just good policy.

fwiw. I probably wouldn't touch anything for people within 10 years of eligibility, but I'm definitely not against it. The boomers can help fix this problem as they are largely responsible for it.
Do you even know how old the youngest Boomers are?

ETA: The Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. The youngest Boomers are 60. 7 years from retirement age so by your metric you wouldn't be able to touch their SS. You would be starting with Gen X.

I know that changes need made to the system but I would honestly remove the salary cap before I forced people to work until they were 70. Some of you all may already be there and still working but I have no desire to work from 16 to 70. People ought to be able to enjoy some of their life.
 
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I know that changes need made to the system but I would honestly remove the salary cap before I forced people to work until they were 70. Some of you all may already be there and still working but I have no desire to work from 16 to 70. People ought to be able to enjoy some of their life.

Having a couple friends die in the last month between 59 and 62 has really changed my retirement views. I joked about getting out but always figured to go until 67, at least. Not now. Though it is scary to go earlier, 1/3 cuts if a deal isn't reached is pretty scary. 65 is now my target because of Medicare. Affording healthcare without it or an employer plan seems risky.

I appreciate your answer, it has to be difficult to tout raising the cap given your overall views. I think the solution will have to include some cuts and some increases. Moving the retirement age a year and raising the cap should do a world of good. To pass both parties are going to have to be able to claim a victory, just doing what America needs isn't good enough any longer.

But any time I think of raising the age it does mean that people who do real physical labor are screwed. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to be hanging drywall or fighting fires at 70. So raising the age does screw over people who actually work. Though I don't know any other way to get both parties to support a plan.
 
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Do you even know how old the youngest Boomers are?

ETA: The Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. The youngest Boomers are 60. 7 years from retirement age so by your metric you wouldn't be able to touch their SS. You would be starting with Gen X.

I know that changes need made to the system but I would honestly remove the salary cap before I forced people to work until they were 70. Some of you all may already be there and still working but I have no desire to work from 16 to 70. People ought to be able to enjoy some of their life.
If I was dictator I would touch their retirement, but I realize that would be politically untenable.
 
I like Vivek. He’s extremely intelligent and successful. Foreign concepts for Democrats.
He’s out there on some stuff & not sure how effective he would be as President, but I have a real appreciation for how he handles hecklers & opposition. Much like our own CoH, he doesn’t try to demean & belittle people attacking & berating him with opposing views, but listens & seeks to understand, always making it about issues, not people, & always coming out on top.
 
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