Grant Gelon commits

[ORG]

His career record doesn't make him an above average coach. Above average is a guy like Matta. Great is coach K and Izzo types.

I define average as the mathematical definition. So, in my definition a .500 career record is average: anything above it is above average.

I understand that you define it differently. If your standard is a record like Thad Matt's (76% in the Big 10) then Crean does not meet that standard and falls far short of it. Tom Izzo (71%) and Bo Ryan (74%) come close to Matta's record but they also fall short. I think Matta may have the best winning % within the Big 10 of all current Big 10 coaches, so your standard for above average = being the best in the Big 10.

Note: I used the stats from Wikipedia. And, I am not saying I disagree with your standard. You certainly can set your standard wherever you wish. However, when I gave my definition of "average" I did not say or imply that, going forward this would be an acceptable winning % for IU. If CTC does not start doing better than that, he will probably be gone.

 

[ORG]

Come on ... Really!

Exactly . . . At least IU Scott has given a quantifiable definition of what he means by average.

 

[TheLaffy]

I was being sarcastic but Crean is still in the top 30 coaches in Div 1 and I would bet that most of the ones that would be considered above him would have no desire to come here and be subjected to this fan base expectations.

Didn't ESPN have some ranking of coaches recently and Crean didn't make the Top 50?

I do know kenpom has him WAY down his list on at least one criteria (best coach in last 5 minutes, or something like that).

As far as our "expectations", please tell me you're kidding.

We used to be one of the "Top 5 programs of all time" and now many "fans" think making the Sweet 16 this year would be perfectly fine.

If any coach thinks expecting more than that, with a loaded roster and 8th year in, is wrong, I wouldn't want him here anyway.

Kentucky got rid of Tubby after his success and had no problem getting Cal. 20 other coaches would jump at that job tomorrow if Cal went to the pros.

 

[Ibuildfurnaces]

I was being sarcastic but Crean is still in the top 30 coaches in Div 1 and I would bet that most of the ones that would be considered above him would have no desire to come here and be subjected to this fan base expectations.

You're delusional. A top 30 coach would have fared a hell of a lot better than crean did the past 7 years at IU. The only decent coaching he has done at IU was during the 11-12 season. And that is probably because we all underestimated the impact of Zeller and our expectations were in the sewer after the previous 3 years.

Seriously, I don't see how anybody can say Crean has done a really good job at IU. I have nothing against him and want him to succeed greatly but his 15 years as a head coach tell me he is who he is. He is a 7 handicap golfer that will occasionally shot 73 but that is an outlier. more often, he is shooting 78-82. That is what he has done at IU and IU deserves much better.

If Glass wasn't such a fanboy, he would call Stevens after this season and offer 7-8mil/year and be done with it. IU can easily afford it and the ROI would be huge. IU would be ordering banners #6,7, & 8 for the next 10 years. People would forget all about Knight because this guy can coach, recruit and relate well to people. Crean is the frumpy girl with zits and glasses in Algebra that you pray will be a hot ass cheerleader by the weekend. Ain't, Gonna. Happen.

 

[IU Scott]

Didn't ESPN have some ranking of coaches recently and Crean didn't make the Top 50?

I do know kenpom has him WAY down his list on at least one criteria (best coach in last 5 minutes, or something like that).

As far as our "expectations", please tell me you're kidding.

We used to be one of the "Top 5 programs of all time" and now many "fans" think making the Sweet 16 this year would be perfectly fine.

If any coach thinks expecting more than that, with a loaded roster and 8th year in, is wrong, I wouldn't want him here anyway.

Kentucky got rid of Tubby after his success and had no problem getting Cal. 20 other coaches would jump at that job tomorrow if Cal went to the pros.

I would put us at around 7th or 8th all time but I have shown many times with stats that really show IU basketball has not been as dominate as some of you guys want to make it out to be. Yes I believe there would be a lot of coaches who would not want to leave where they are comfortable and leave it to take a job that if they have not produced in 2 or 3 years the fans will be calling for his head. take an example of Marshall who makes around 4 million at WSU where he is treated like a god and why would he leave that to take the job at IU where every move is ridiculed by the fans.. he has proven that he can go tot he final four at WSU and be a number one seed so what would he gain by coming to IU.

 

[TheLaffy]

I think you also have to give him credit for winning the first outright Big 10 Championship in a couple of decades.

Davis got us to the Title game for the first time in decades and got zero credit for it from most "fans."

 

[IU Scott]

You're delusional. A top 30 coach would have fared a hell of a lot better than crean did the past 7 years at IU. The only decent coaching he has done at IU was during the 11-12 season. And that is probably because we all underestimated the impact of Zeller and our expectations were in the sewer after the previous 3 years.

Seriously, I don't see how anybody can say Crean has done a really good job at IU. I have nothing against him and want him to succeed greatly but his 15 years as a head coach tell me he is who he is. He is a 7 handicap golfer that will occasionally shot 73 but that is an outlier. more often, he is shooting 78-82. That is what he has done at IU and IU deserves much better.

If Glass wasn't such a fanboy, he would call Stevens after this season and offer 7-8mil/year and be done with it. IU can easily afford it and the ROI would be huge. IU would be ordering banners #6,7, & 8 for the next 10 years. People would forget all about Knight because this guy can coach, recruit and relate well to people. Crean is the frumpy girl with zits and glasses in Algebra that you pray will be a hot ass cheerleader by the weekend. Ain't, Gonna. Happen.

I did not say he has done a really good job but said a good job and by the way I agree I wanted a change after last year to hire Marshall or Stevens but I would doubt either one would have much interest in the job.

 

[TheLaffy]

I would put us at around 7th or 8th all time but I have shown many times with stats that really show IU basketball has not been as dominate as some of you guys want to make it out to be. Yes I believe there would be a lot of coaches who would not want to leave where they are comfortable and leave it to take a job that if they have not produced in 2 or 3 years the fans will be calling for his head. take an example of Marshall who makes around 4 million at WSU where he is treated like a god and why would he leave that to take the job at IU where every move is ridiculed by the fans.. he has proven that he can go tot he final four at WSU and be a number one seed so what would he gain by coming to IU.

20 years ago, we were a hands-down Top 5 program.

And we should be today considering our high school basketball is probably the best in the country and the sport is a religion here.

It's odd how you ducked the fact Kaintuck has higher expectations than we do and has no problem getting a Top coach.

Not all coaches want it "easy".......many want the challenge.

 

[bsmitty08]

I would put us at around 7th or 8th all time but I have shown many times with stats that really show IU basketball has not been as dominate as some of you guys want to make it out to be. Yes I believe there would be a lot of coaches who would not want to leave where they are comfortable and leave it to take a job that if they have not produced in 2 or 3 years the fans will be calling for his head. take an example of Marshall who makes around 4 million at WSU where he is treated like a god and why would he leave that to take the job at IU where every move is ridiculed by the fans.. he has proven that he can go tot he final four at WSU and be a number one seed so what would he gain by coming to IU.

IU fan base expectations? Any big program like IU, UK, UNC, Duke, Arizona, UCLA, Kansas would have a fan base with high expectations.

 

[Jeff the IU fan]

good discourse!

That is the posters MO. Most know the agenda, but when pushed that is what is said..."PROVIDE A LINK." Good grief.

 

[IU Scott]

20 years ago, we were a hands-down Top 5 program.

And we should be today considering our high school basketball is probably the best in the country and the sport is a religion here.

It's odd how you ducked the fact Kaintuck has higher expectations than we do and has no problem getting a Top coach.

Not all coaches want it "easy".......many want the challenge.

UCLA
UK
Kansas
Duke
UNC
All these teams are above us when it comes to all great programs and we are in the next batch with UL
One UK got Cal who I would never want at IU and got him from Memphis another pretty corrupt school. Then they were able to get Pitino who was out of a job after being fired from Boston.

 

[IU Scott]

IU fan base expectations? Any big program like IU, UK, UNC, Duke, Arizona, UCLA, Kansas would have a fan base with high expectations.

I am saying that it todays basketball coaches don't have to go to those schools to get paid well just look at Marshall and why would he leave where he is comfortable and proven he can win nationally there.

 

[bsmitty08]

20 years ago iu was in there instead of Duke

 

[Ibuildfurnaces]

UCLA
UK
Kansas
Duke
UNC
All these teams are above us when it comes to all great programs and we are in the next batch with UL
One UK got Cal who I would never want at IU and got him from Memphis another pretty corrupt school. Then they were able to get Pitino who was out of a job after being fired from Boston.

We are in the next batch currently thanks to horrendous leadership and decision making by IU admin. IU would be back in the top 4 with Stevens within 3 years

 

[bsmitty08]

I am saying that it todays basketball coaches don't have to go to those schools to get paid well just look at Marshall and why would he leave where he is comfortable and proven he can win nationally there.

Why would Billy Donovan leave Florida for NBA? He was making great money and comfortable. Why would Why would Shaka go to Texas? Etc....

 

[IU Scott]

20 years ago iu was in there instead of Duke

but it is not 20 years ago and the sooner some IU fans realize it then they might be able to move on. Tell me a time where IU went tot he final four 6 out of 7 years like Duke did from 86-92 or even go to back to back final fours.

 

[IU Scott]

We are in the next batch currently thanks to horrendous leadership and decision making by IU admin. IU would be back in the top 4 with Stevens within 3 years

that is your opinion and we might be but there is no way of proving that because all of those programs are still winning big time. Tell me which school would you take out of the top 5 and put us in. Even if you take out one there are other schools that would be put into the top 5 before us

 

[bsmitty08]

but it is not 20 years ago and the sooner some IU fans realize it then they might be able to move on. Tell me a time where IU went tot he final four 6 out of 7 years like Duke did from 86-92 or even go to back to back final fours.

The original post about being a top 5 was said 20 years ago...which we were.

 

[bsmitty08]

that is your opinion and we might be but there is no way of proving that because all of those programs are still winning big time. Tell me which school would you take out of the top 5 and put us in. Even if you take out one there are other schools that would be put into the top 5 before us

UNC and Kansas. At that time IU was better than both.

 

[Ibuildfurnaces]

that is your opinion and we might be but there is no way of proving that because all of those programs are still winning big time. Tell me which school would you take out of the top 5 and put us in. Even if you take out one there are other schools that would be put into the top 5 before us

probably Duke once K retires. UCLA is living off 1968 and Sam Gilbert. It can be done - Kansas was nothing for about 25 until 1986

 

[IU Scott]

Why would Billy Donovan leave Florida for NBA? He was making great money and comfortable. Why would Why would Shaka go to Texas? Etc....

It is different going to the NBA because all you have to worry about is basketball there and not have to recruit or bay sit 18 year old kids. As for Shaka he turned down a lot of other offers through the years but I guess he couldn't turn away the Texas money. I just see more good coaches like Few who has settled in a good situation and turned down higher profile jobs because they can make big money without the headaches of the top programs and alumni.

 

[IU Scott]

UNC and Kansas. At that time IU was better than both.

Are you just taking a snap shot of that time period or are we talking all time great and looking at the whole history because I would still put those two historically better.

 

[cheyennemtnman]

Creating innuendo? Come on....I have yet to meet an IU fan who thinks Crean is doing a good job.

Broaden your circles...
The innuendo you made in a couple of posts here is what I was referring to... Hilarious how far you will go...

 

[bsmitty08]

It is different going to the NBA because all you have to worry about is basketball there and not have to recruit or bay sit 18 year old kids. As for Shaka he turned down a lot of other offers through the years but I guess he couldn't turn away the Texas money. I just see more good coaches like Few who has settled in a good situation and turned down higher profile jobs because they can make big money without the headaches of the top programs and alumni.

You can name a few guys yes but bottom line is they are not the only good coaches out there. We have seen what our coach can do in a 16 year career, that is a big sample size. We could hand over the reigns to an Archie Miller and at worse still win .65% of our games like our current coach.

 

[IU Scott]

probably Duke once K retires. UCLA is living off 1968 and Sam Gilbert. It can be done - Kansas was nothing for about 25 until 1986

Like IU was nothing from 54-72 and all teams has dry spells. Also UCLA won a lot more championships after 68 and won one as recently as 95 and went to 3 straight final fours from 06-08 which we have never done.

 

[bsmitty08]

Are you just taking a snap shot of that time period or are we talking all time great and looking at the whole history because I would still put those two historically better.

Historically and how would you put UNC and kanas over IU 20 years ago?

 

[bsmitty08]

Broaden your circles

Enlighten us Yoda.

 

[Creaned Heat]

You have no clue! give it a rest! Enjoy the season!

Great argument. Thanks for writing this out!

 

[IU Scott]

You can name a few guys yes but bottom line is they are not the only good coaches out there. We have seen what our coach can do in a 16 year career, that is a big sample size. We could hand over the reigns to an Archie Miller and at worse still win .65% of our games like our current coach.

Like I have said many times this argument is not to say I think Crean is a great coach because he is not and I want a change. I just think some of you guys live in the past to much and put IU higher up than what reality shows it is. I just think some of you put blinders on and think IU is still a destination job for any coach out there and I think the last few searches show it is not.

 

[bsmitty08]

Like I have said many times this argument is not to say I think Crean is a great coach because he is not and I want a change. I just think some of you guys live in the past to much and put IU higher up than what reality shows it is. I just think some of you put blinders on and think IU is still a destination job for any coach out there and I think the last few searches show it is not.

What about Alabama football? It had a long dry spel and hired multiple coachesl until they finally go it right with Saban. IU is a sleeping giant, every fanbase in the BIG knows it and laughs that we keep Crean.

 

[IU Scott]

What about Alabama football? It had a long dry spel and hired multiple coachesl until they finally go it right with Saban. IU is a sleeping giant, every fanbase in the BIG knows it and laughs that we keep Crean.

Didn't Stalling's win a national championship at Alabama so they did have success before they got it right with Saban. Give me Marshall or Stevens today and I will personally go to Bloomington and help Crean move but I just don't see that happening and those are the only two coaches that I would say that would be our Saban.

 

[bsmitty08]

Didn't Stalling's win a national championship at Alabama so they did have success before they got it right with Saban. Give me Marshall or Stevens today and I will personally go to Bloomington and help Crean move but I just don't see that happening and those are the only two coaches that I would say that would be our Saban.

Uh yes in 1992....Saban came in 07......5 coaches in between Stallings and Saban. 3 full time in Dubose, Franchone and Shula who all were shown the door.

 

[Ibuildfurnaces]

Uh yes in 1992....Saban came in 07......5 coaches in between Stallings and Saban. 3 full time in Dubose, Franchone and Shula who all were shown the door.

crean is shula

 

[cheyennemtnman]

Great argument. Thanks for writing this out!

Your very welcome... No need to argue with nonsense...

 

[TheLaffy]

IU fan base expectations? Any big program like IU, UK, UNC, Duke, Arizona, UCLA, Kansas would have a fan base with high expectations.

No kidding.

I guess when Belicheck (sp) retires no one will take the New England job because "fans will have too high expectations."

 

[IU Scott]

Do you guys really think a coaching candidate today still looks at what we did in the past and even though we have not won a championship since 87 and our last truly elite team was in 93 except for 2012 when we were ranked #1. I really don't think today coaches would look at it that way and look at what we have been the last 20 years and see that it is not what it used to be. I just go back to the last couple of searches and we did not have big time names breaking the door down to come here. I know the last time we had sanctions over our head but great coaches would still come here knowing it should only take 3 years to get the program back on its feet but we still got turned down by the bigger names. At the Time Crean seemed like a good hire and the other name that came up and was rumored to be taking the job was Lon Kreuger who is a very good coach but it would have not been a homerun hire.

 

[Ibuildfurnaces]

Do you guys really think a coaching candidate today still looks at what we did in the past and even though we have not won a championship since 87 and our last truly elite team was in 93 except for 2012 when we were ranked #1. I really don't think today coaches would look at it that way and look at what we have been the last 20 years and see that it is not what it used to be. I just go back to the last couple of searches and we did not have big time names breaking the door down to come here. I know the last time we had sanctions over our head but great coaches would still come here knowing it should only take 3 years to get the program back on its feet but we still got turned down by the bigger names. At the Time Crean seemed like a good hire and the other name that came up and was rumored to be taking the job was Lon Kreuger who is a very good coach but it would have not been a homerun hire.

Its a top 5 job.

Facilities
Money
Fanbase
TV exposure
Recruiting hotbed

Get rid of Crean and get someone who can actually coach

 

[TheLaffy]

UCLA
UK
Kansas
Duke
UNC
All these teams are above us when it comes to all great programs and we are in the next batch with UL
One UK got Cal who I would never want at IU and got him from Memphis another pretty corrupt school. Then they were able to get Pitino who was out of a job after being fired from Boston.

I said 20 years ago....before Duke became a powerhouse.

And with the right coach, we'd be right back there. Basketball is a religion in Indiana and we have one of the largest alumni bases in the country.

The only reason we dropped is because we, first, put up with Knight's last 6 years, and then hired one crappy coach after another.

 

[TheLaffy]

It is different going to the NBA because all you have to worry about is basketball there and not have to recruit or bay sit 18 year old kids. As for Shaka he turned down a lot of other offers through the years but I guess he couldn't turn away the Texas money. I just see more good coaches like Few who has settled in a good situation and turned down higher profile jobs because they can make big money without the headaches of the top programs and alumni.

You don't think pro players need to be baby-sat? LOL!!

 

[TheLaffy]

Its a top 5 job.

Facilities
Money
Fanbase
TV exposure
Recruiting hotbed

Get rid of Crean and get someone who can actually coach

Exactly.

If Boston hadn't hired Stevens, I think Crean would have been fired already and we'd be measuring for a new banner.

I'd say we fire both Crean and Glass and hire the AD at Butler because they know how to hire the right coaches.