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Clinton and Trump both mentioned

Hoopsdoc1978 said:
I admittedly haven’t read it for myself, but I thought the only mention of Trump is when they went to one of his casinos.
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Epstein's pilot says Trump was on the plane.


Disclaimer, being on the plane is not a sign of guilt.

Trump also said he knew Epstein for 15 years and that he was a terrific guy. Again, NOT evidence of guilt. I'm trying hard to get people to draw a line between knowing Epstein and guilt.

Some, and I don't know who, may be guilty of not reporting the crime. Certainly some of the people that knew him but weren't involved had an idea of what was happening. I have no reason to think Trump or Clinton fits that either.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
I wouldn't be surprised if one or both were involved. And I don't have a problem suggesting Clinton might be more likely. But we have a standard of guilt. and my opening "I wouldn't be surprised" isn't that standard. Not everyone who knew Epstein was a child molester. As terrible as the crime is, we have to have evidence. Yes, Maxwell said she didn't know what her relationship with Clinton was. That might be damning but it might not.

If one of the women comes out and says Clinton was involved (or Trump, or anyone else), I'm ready to believe them. But it hasn't happened.
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I believe that there has been testimony alleging Trump's involvement, but I'm not sure of the veracity. (And anyone should correct me if my recollection is wrong.)

As for the presumption of innocence, I'm not a court or a judge.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
I wouldn't be surprised if one or both were involved. And I don't have a problem suggesting Clinton might be more likely. But we have a standard of guilt. and my opening "I wouldn't be surprised" isn't that standard. Not everyone who knew Epstein was a child molester. As terrible as the crime is, we have to have evidence. Yes, Maxwell said she didn't know what her relationship with Clinton was. That might be damning but it might not.

If one of the women comes out and says Clinton was involved (or Trump, or anyone else), I'm ready to believe them. But it hasn't happened.
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Donald Trump said in 2002 that Jeffrey Epstein was a "terrific guy," and added, "It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."

At the very least, Trump knew of Epstein's business and didn't seem appalled by it nor did Trump report it to authorities. Of course, that doesn't mean he partook in it but it is smoke.
 
Something to keep in mind in all of this is that none of what is being released will be new to law enforcement. In theory, if there is anything in there that implicates someone in criminal activity it would have been investigated long before now. I doubt there will be anything even remotely definitive implicating someone. All there will be is innuendo, suspicion, and guilt by association. In the end, I think this release of information will end up being rather uneventful - except for the conspiracy wackos who still believe Pizzagate was real.
 
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Noodle said:
Something to keep in mind in all of this is that none of what is being released will be new to law enforcement. In theory, if there is anything in there that implicates someone in criminal activity it would have been investigated long before now. I doubt there will be anything even remotely definitive implicating someone. All there will be is innuendo, suspicion, and guilt by association. In the end, I think this release of information will end up being rather uneventful - except for the conspiracy wackos who still believe Pizzagate was real.
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That's what I said weeks ago. I was accused of preemptively trying to downplay it.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
Epstein's pilot says Trump was on the plane.


Disclaimer, being on the plane is not a sign of guilt.

Trump also said he knew Epstein for 15 years and that he was a terrific guy. Again, NOT evidence of guilt. I'm trying hard to get people to draw a line between knowing Epstein and guilt.

Some, and I don't know who, may be guilty of not reporting the crime. Certainly some of the people that knew him but weren't involved had an idea of what was happening. I have no reason to think Trump or Clinton fits that either.
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I know a lot of MAGA types like to point to the fact that Trump banned Epstein from Mar-a-lago and to say he wasn't involved in whatever it was Epstein was doing. I suspect we'll never actually know who was involved or to what degree, but I don't think banning Epstein from Mar-a-lago means much. Reportedly, he banned him because he hit on a member's daughter. I'd guess it was said member who put pressure on Trump to kick that sleaze ball out.

Banning him from Mar-a-lago doesn't mean Trump cut all ties with him. It'd be interesting to see if flight logs put him on Epstein's plane AFTER banning him. I wouldn't be surprised to see if this was the case.
 
Noodle said:
Something to keep in mind in all of this is that none of what is being released will be new to law enforcement. In theory, if there is anything in there that implicates someone in criminal activity it would have been investigated long before now. I doubt there will be anything even remotely definitive implicating someone. All there will be is innuendo, suspicion, and guilt by association. In the end, I think this release of information will end up being rather uneventful - except for the conspiracy wackos who still believe Pizzagate was real.
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Hunter Biden’s sweetheart plea deal would like a word.

That said, I tend to agree with you, but only because the really damaging stuff probably died with Epstein.

The fact that they murdered him in his cell lends credibility to the notion that he knew some pretty damaging stuff about some really powerful people.

I’m sure we’ll never know the whole story.
 
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Noodle said:
As for the presumption of innocence, I'm not a court or a judge.
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Neither am I, but there is that Do unto others thing. I wouldn't want to be accused just because I knew Epstein.

A guy that I played basketball with fairly often, just pickup games, was arrested and convicted of child porn. I would hate to be thought of being part of that because we tended to go to the court at the same time every day for a few years.

Any of the women come forward and I'm set to believe them. I may intensely dislike Trump, and think Clinton is only marginally better, but I'm going to treat them as I would want treated.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
Neither am I, but there is that Do unto others thing. I wouldn't want to be accused just because I knew Epstein.

A guy that I played basketball with fairly often, just pickup games, was arrested and convicted of child porn. I would hate to be thought of being part of that because we tended to go to the court at the same time every day for a few years.

Any of the women come forward and I'm set to believe them. I may intensely dislike Trump, and think Clinton is only marginally better, but I'm going to treat them as I would want treated.
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This is the best outlook/approach in my opinion. Especially considering that the truth on this matter will likely never come out. It's not certain what Trump, Clinton or anyone else did with Epstein, but it is certain that both men will go to their graves categorically denying any wrongdoing.

If there is a silver lining here, it's that it should serve as a reminder to everyone to take care of who you associate with.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
Hunter Biden’s sweetheart plea deal would like a word.

That said, I tend to agree with you, but only because the really damaging stuff probably died with Epstein.

The fact that they murdered him in his cell lends credibility to the notion that he knew some pretty damaging stuff about some really powerful people.

I’m sure we’ll never know the whole story.
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“The fact that they murdered him . . .” That’s not a fact. There’s no evidence it wasn’t a suicide. Who do you think killed him and why?

apnews.com

New details of Jeffrey Epstein's death and the frantic aftermath revealed in records obtained by AP

The Associated Press has obtained more than 4,000 pages of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein’s jail suicide from the federal Bureau of Prisons under the Freedom of Information Act. They include a detailed psychological reconstruction of the events leading to Epstein’s suicide, as well as his...
apnews.com apnews.com
 
Aloha Hoosier said:
“The fact that they murdered him . . .” That’s not a fact. There’s no evidence it wasn’t a suicide. Who do you think killed him and why?

apnews.com

New details of Jeffrey Epstein's death and the frantic aftermath revealed in records obtained by AP

The Associated Press has obtained more than 4,000 pages of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein’s jail suicide from the federal Bureau of Prisons under the Freedom of Information Act. They include a detailed psychological reconstruction of the events leading to Epstein’s suicide, as well as his...
apnews.com apnews.com
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Dude, are you TRYING to get yourself killed by one of the lizard people? Best to avoid pizza joints for a while, just in case.

vV2dxq.gif
 
Last edited:
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Aloha Hoosier said:
“The fact that they murdered him . . .” That’s not a fact. There’s no evidence it wasn’t a suicide. Who do you think killed him and why?

apnews.com

New details of Jeffrey Epstein's death and the frantic aftermath revealed in records obtained by AP

The Associated Press has obtained more than 4,000 pages of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein’s jail suicide from the federal Bureau of Prisons under the Freedom of Information Act. They include a detailed psychological reconstruction of the events leading to Epstein’s suicide, as well as his...
apnews.com apnews.com
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The dude “killed himself” in a maximum security prison, while on suicide watch.

His cellmate just “happened” to be transferred out out hours before he did it.

The two cops who were supposed to be checking on him every 30 minutes “fell asleep”.

Three(!) cameras mysteriously malfunctioned on the night he died, ensuring there was no video of his actual death.

He was found kneeling on the floor with a bedsheet around his neck, tied to the top bunk. I don’t know if it’s theoretically possible to hang one’s self like that but I have to believe it would be EXTREMELY difficult.

At least one person involved with the autopsy was convinced he was murdered.

Remember, we’re talking about a guy who supposedly ran the most influential child sex trafficking ring since who knows when, who supposedly catered to some of the most powerful people in the world.

Oh, and evidence from his apartment mysteriously vanished after law enforcement decided they didn’t have the proper authority to confiscate it, left it there unguarded, and were shocked to find it gone when they came back.

You can believe what you want but there is NO WAY that dude killed himself.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
The dude “killed himself” in a maximum security prison, while on suicide watch.

His cellmate just “happened” to be transferred out out hours before he did it.

The two cops who were supposed to be checking on him every 30 minutes “fell asleep”.

Three(!) cameras mysteriously malfunctioned on the night he died, ensuring there was no video of his actual death.

He was found kneeling on the floor with a bedsheet around his neck, tied to the top bunk. I don’t know if it’s theoretically possible to hang one’s self like that but I have to believe it would be EXTREMELY difficult.

At least one person involved with the autopsy was convinced he was murdered.

Remember, we’re talking about a guy who supposedly ran the most influential child sex trafficking ring since who knows when, who supposedly catered to some of the most powerful people in the world.

Oh, and evidence from his apartment mysteriously vanished after law enforcement decided they didn’t have the proper authority to confiscate it, left it there unguarded, and were shocked to find it gone when they came back.

You can believe what you want but there is NO WAY that dude killed himself.
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You have an amazingly conspiratorial mind, AKA easily duped.

It’s not a fact he was murdered. That’s a fact.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
The dude “killed himself” in a maximum security prison, while on suicide watch.

His cellmate just “happened” to be transferred out out hours before he did it.

The two cops who were supposed to be checking on him every 30 minutes “fell asleep”.

Three(!) cameras mysteriously malfunctioned on the night he died, ensuring there was no video of his actual death.

He was found kneeling on the floor with a bedsheet around his neck, tied to the top bunk. I don’t know if it’s theoretically possible to hang one’s self like that but I have to believe it would be EXTREMELY difficult.

At least one person involved with the autopsy was convinced he was murdered.

Remember, we’re talking about a guy who supposedly ran the most influential child sex trafficking ring since who knows when, who supposedly catered to some of the most powerful people in the world.

Oh, and evidence from his apartment mysteriously vanished after law enforcement decided they didn’t have the proper authority to confiscate it, left it there unguarded, and were shocked to find it gone when they came back.

You can believe what you want but there is NO WAY that dude killed himself.
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He tried to kill himself just days before though. The same way.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
You have an amazingly conspiratorial mind, AKA easily duped.

It’s not a fact he was murdered. That’s a fact.
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It is amazing how many conspiracies are out there. After the Dallas- Detroit game I saw tons of "The NFL is rigged" tweets in the replies to the story about the call. But it isn't just that game, almost every NFL game has those now, just not as many.
 
Hoopsdoc1978 said:
I’ve had exchanges with you where you deny objective reality. It’s always funny to me to see you constantly calling others easily duped.

I know the official story. It just takes a lot of blind faith to believe it.
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You’ve had exchanges with me that prove you’re anything but objective and logical. You believe things which aren’t supported by evidence. You are most definitely easily duped. I don’t find that amusing, I find it sad.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
You’ve had exchanges with me that prove you’re anything but objective and logical. You believe things which aren’t supported by evidence. You are most definitely easily duped. I don’t find that amusing, I find it sad.
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You once tried to tell me that the FBI isn’t part of the US intelligence community.

Now that’s sad. Especially for a military man like you.

Also, for the record, 45 percent of Americans think Epstein was murdered. So it’s not like I’m spreading some wild conspiracy theory that only Q morons believe.

And there’s plenty of evidence for it, which I laid out and you didn’t even address.

You instead went straight to insults. That says a lot about you.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
You once tried to tell me that the FBI isn’t part of the US intelligence community.

Now that’s sad. Especially for a military man like you.

Also, for the record, 45 percent of Americans think Epstein was murdered. So it’s not like I’m spreading some wild conspiracy theory that only Q morons believe.

And there’s plenty of evidence for it, which I laid out and you didn’t even address.

You instead went straight to insults. That says a lot about you.
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I dislike posting opinions and theories as if they’re facts. That Epstein was murdered is NOT a fact. Period. If you think it’s a fact, you’re an illogical and dishonest person. Period. It would be a good thing for you to learn the difference between facts and opinions and conspiracy theories. Explaining this difference to you isn’t an insult.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
I dislike posting opinions and theories as if they’re facts.
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You mean like claiming the FBI ISN’T part of the US intelligence community?

Thats either dishonesty or rank ignorance, both of which you claim to despise.

You’re a hypocrite.
Aloha Hoosier said:
That Epstein was murdered is NOT a fact. Period. If you think it’s a fact, you’re an illogical and dishonest person. Period. It would be a good thing for you to learn the difference between facts and opinions and conspiracy theories.
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I told you, I know it’s not a fact. I just don’t believe the official story.

I guess that makes me illogical and dishonest, along with 45 percent of the country.

Do you even hear yourself? You come off like a giant asshole.
Aloha Hoosier said:
Explaining this difference to you isn’t an insult.
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No, insulting me is an insult. Which you’ve done repeatedly.
 
A bunch of powerful people likely breathed a sigh of relief when Epstein died.

He was in a cell on suicide watch so if he was murdered, then there would likely have been some assistance from the guards in the coverup given the access needed and likely cameras that would need to "stop working" at the right time. One would hope that would make murder unlikely.

Trump is likely one of the few that might have had the means given his oversized influence on most of his followers. Afterall, odds are that some of the guards were Trump supporters. Alternatively, other wealthy people could have paid off people as needed but all this amounts to nothing other than there might have been people with both motive and the means to carry out his murder. None of it qualifies as evidence though.

The investigation into Epstein's death would likely also have to be tainted, which makes it being a murder even less likely.

People convicted of crimes against children usually don't have a fun time in prison. It was also a stark contrast to the luxurious life he had previous been living so it was likely a very rough reality check/transition for him. Given his previous suicide attempt, I would say it is most likely suicide despite the fact that a bunch of people had motive and a few possibly had means to follow through.

It's an entertaining thought (and politically helpful if you can pin it on the other side) but it was most likely suicide and there is no evidence yet to say it wasn't.
 
Joe_Hoopsier said:
So is THAT supported by evidence? Is that actually a FACT? Or did you just assume/ make that up out of thin air?
Click to expand...

If someone is in a cell by themselves when they die, then i would think evidence would be needed to say it wasn't suicide.

Every homicide actually needs evidence so the burden of proof is on those wanting it to be homicide.
 
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