I didn't say it had to be immediate. I'd be good with a phase in (VAT), phase out (income tax) plan, but there has to be a total phase out of income tax for me to support it.
86 Thousand New IRS Field Agents, Why?
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
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and how do you know his facts are wrong and yours are right?
Sounds more likely than 86,000 IRS goons with guns going door to door stealing people's money.
Biden is a fing disaster, and the people he hires are worse.
Biden's like George Constanza. Just do the opposite of his plan, whatever it is, and we'll be ok.
Yep...there are companies that exist solely to help small businesses keep their books and remain compliant. Almost 20 years ago I was a salesperson for Paychex - even though I hated doing sales, I felt like that company offered a good service. They collected, paid and filed a business's taxes and took on all liability. They also did all the payroll.
Even if people don't want to go that route, an accountant/CPA can help with all that stuff too. And the ADPs, Paychex and Paycors of the world aren't all that expensive, relatively speaking.
It is 86,000 employees and some of them would be armed. This is getting crossed with the story of the IRS purchasing 5 million? (It was a large number) rounds of ammunition a few weeks back.
The under the table employment economy is a HUGE drain on the US. Even for relatively low wage workers who wouldn't pay into income tax anyway are still avoiding FICA taxes that fund SS & Medicare. And there is a massive number of people who are working for cash under the table or otherwise unreported income and collecting benefits. Even a $25k/yr cash job when you're collecting food stamps, Section 8, Medicaid, and not paying taxes is like working a $60k/yr straight job.
I remember there used to be a Republican talking point that there needs to be a minimum tax that EVERYONE pays so everyone has some skin in the game vs the 50-ish% of people who pay no federal income tax or have a negative income tax rate. Enforcing the tax code to prevent cheating gets to the same result by a different means but all of a sudden it's the brownshirts reincarnated.
On a total dollar basis, I'm much more concerned about every Tom, Dick, & Harry cheating the government collectively vs. the relatively small number of ultra wealthy.
I remember there used to be a Republican talking point that there needs to be a minimum tax that EVERYONE pays so everyone has some skin in the game vs the 50-ish% of people who pay no federal income tax or have a negative income tax rate. Enforcing the tax code to prevent cheating gets to the same result by a different means but all of a sudden it's the brownshirts reincarnated.
On a total dollar basis, I'm much more concerned about every Tom, Dick, & Harry cheating the government collectively vs. the relatively small number of ultra wealthy.
I think people are just kind of done with all of it. From the Republican side there was already a distrust and dislike of many facets of how our government was run and events of the past 6 to 10 years have not helped that at all. I can run through the laundry list of ways in which government at all levels is doing things that turn Republicans off.
From the left, people receiving EITC are almost as likely to get audited as those making over $1 million a year. That program is rife with fraud and quite a bit of it is related to our lack of a coherent immigration policy so everyone gets caught up in that net. And unlike the millionaires, the people that truly benefit and need that program don't have the means to fight an audit.
Not to get into a whole bunch but I think that positions on this are that people are just kind of done with it all. Like I know small business owners that had a job where they drove to sites and inspected them. They bought a Saleen mustang and wrote that off as a business expense. I can tell you that with the type of inspections they were doing, that Mustang never got used for the business....but they had to buy something for a write off.....The fraud would not be as big of a deal IMO if the tax code was not set up how it is. Think about it, the government in many cases will take more from you out of every paycheck than you truly owe. Then at tax time, you either have to read through all that convoluted nonsense or you have to pay a tax service, accountant, or buy some tax software to get your money back.
I will leave it at that, I think there is an overall decline in faith in the government and its institutions and that leads to a breakdown all up and down the line, including when it comes to collecting taxes.
Exactly. It's stupid. Ranger Rovers weigh over 6,000 lbs so you can take advantage of an accelerated tax depreciation schedule. lawyers use it to go to court and meet with clients. bam.
"people are just kind of done with it all" is precisely how i feel
So how are audits going to catch people who work for cash and dont file taxes? You sound like you are more concerned about people who dont punch a clock and listen to the man everyday like good little soldiers
Step 1) Audit companies and ID who can't account for their payroll or mis-classify workers as "Independent Contractors" when they're clearly employees
Step 2) Hammer down on employers who are cheating the system in Step 1
Step 3) Investigate the workers identified in Step 1
Step 4) Investigate salons, gig workers, and other tip heavy folks to look for massive underreporting of income.
Step 5) Hammer those people too.
I know for a fact that some salon folks stopped taking Venmo payments as soon as the idea was floated that Venmo would have to report those kind of transactions. One can only speculate as to why.
And FYI, I don't give a single hoot whether someone is a full time gig worker or independent businessperson. If you're making 6 figures being your own boss selling essential oils or Mary Kay or whatever you do, cool. Just pay your taxes and don't cheat the rest of us while you're breaching the social contract. I paid a whole lot of money last year in federal income taxes and, the good little liberal I am, I was happy to do it because taxes pay for things that provide a benefit for society. But I won't abide people cheating the system, making my contribution lose value because of fraud. Finally, for the record, we could have the simplest tax code ever, like "every person owes $2,000," and it wouldn't matter if 100M people decided not to pay.
When Lois Lerner got away with preventing legal tax exempt status requests to groups that do not align with democrats, that was the end of the IRS as we knew it. It's another political arm of the socialist dems now. You'll know this when you find there is no transparency involved in who they go after. That information will not be available to anyone including congress.
I totally agree on the vehicle issue. There should be limits on that set by some sort of avg . Not saying people should have to buy a Yugo but you dont need the most expensive luxury money can buy. If you want it fine but you can only deduct a certain amount. I realize I am coming from the very bottom level of small bussiness/self employed . I don't push in home deductions at all. My car and trucks are bare minimum. I'm glad no payroll to deal with. But people who have always filed from W-2s really have no clue . I take standard deduction after business expenses as I get more anyway. I can't imagine trying to do meals on the road, I have an artist friend that used to deduct his cassette tapes/cd's because he said the music gave him inspiration to create the sculptures he sells. He didnt really believe it but he did it.
You sound triggered. How do you feel about all the Mexicans storming the border working for cash and getting government services while they are here since you are such a good little liberal?
The real issue being discussed by a few of us is the intimidation factor and how the IRS does business. They thrive on fear and intimidation tactics.
You seem to be under the impression every small business /self employed is cheating the government.
The real issue being discussed by a few of us is the intimidation factor and how the IRS does business. They thrive on fear and intimidation tactics.
You seem to be under the impression every small business /self employed is cheating the government.
The real issue is having a guilty conscience. If you have a clear conscience you won’t fear or be intimidated by the IRS.
And the end game will be put everyone out of business that is on their own vs milking all the benefits of the system as a employee of someone else and there will be no tax money from small business .
I wonder what TMFT does for a living? He seems very self righteous . Maybe he works for the IRS?
Um? I'm against it.
I'm not saying all small businesses/self-employed are cheating. But I know for a FACT that the cash under the table economy is a big problem. You asked how I'd get to the people failing to report because how do you catch them if they're not reporting, and you do it by going to the source.
Self righteous? For not cheating on my taxes?
I don't need a cookie for doing the right thing. It's like the old Chris Rock joke about people being all proud that they take care of their kids and haven't been to jail. That's how it's SUPPOSED TO BE, you don't get a reward for it.
Am I salty about people who do cheat? Absolutely. How are you not? Unless you're admitting to cheating on your taxes, which as an attorney I would encourage you not to do.
You really have no clue so you should probably STF up.
You are assuming that its all purposely done to steal vs mistakes , the complicated tax laws all kinds of things, government incompetence etc . Maybe the agents prostate is acting up or he just doesnt like you so he is a real dick.
Government is a necessary evil. We can't just throw up our hands and let it run amuck. Our elected Representatives, Senators and Presidents need to do their part in improving it. Being a conservative, I'd prefer it to be only as large as necessary and efficient. If any part of it is unnecessary, we should be getting rid of it. Of course, it's hard to do, but that's what needs to be done.
Yes, I too would like a much more simplified tax system. In fact, I'd like to phase out income tax altogether and replace it with a VAT system. Then we all pay taxes - including all the illegals and tourists. That would be a great bonus.
I agree with most of that in theory. Government is a necessary evil, I just think the reputation of our current government is in tatters at the moment. So it is leading to a bit of "screw them all" sentiment.Government is a necessary evil. We can't just throw up our hands and let it run amuck. Our elected Representatives, Senators and Presidents need to do their part in improving it. Being a conservative, I'd prefer it to be only as large as necessary and efficient. If any part of it is unnecessary, we should be getting rid of it. Of course, it's hard to do, but that's what needs to be done.
Yes, I too would like a much more simplified tax system. In fact, I'd like to phase out income tax altogether and replace it with a VAT system. Then we all pay taxes - including all the illegals and tourists. That would be a great bonus.
From a birdseye view, I’d birdshit all over it. (Joke)Government is a necessary evil. We can't just throw up our hands and let it run amuck. Our elected Representatives, Senators and Presidents need to do their part in improving it. Being a conservative, I'd prefer it to be only as large as necessary and efficient. If any part of it is unnecessary, we should be getting rid of it. Of course, it's hard to do, but that's what needs to be done.
Yes, I too would like a much more simplified tax system. In fact, I'd like to phase out income tax altogether and replace it with a VAT system. Then we all pay taxes - including all the illegals and tourists. That would be a great bonus.
I just wanna throw in here one observation I made a long time ago about government initiatives, functions, and the like. A big problem is that we don’t seem to have a mechanism in place that retires elements that are no longer needed. On the legislative side a similar problem is earmarks. John McCain was big on getting rid of them. We should. Overall there’s too much incentive to keep or push programs that aren’t necessarily needed in the future.
That's certainly what Mao & Stalin believed. You would have fit right in. Now tell us again how you're going to vote Republican next time.
I don't know about Mao & Stalin.
Maybe you meant Jesus. He certainly believed that if his followers had a clear conscience they wouldn't fear the Romans.
Unless you are not paying attention you will see none of these government agencies are transparent in anything they do. The IRS is no different than the FBI. They just claim they cannot speak about the topic, have no recollection, or no longer have the evidence and it dies there.
Back to Lois Lerner and the IRS. She made the mistake of admitting the IRS targeted groups from 2010 - 2013. In fact, she publicly apologized for it. Then when called to testify she would not talk. She was placed on leave and ultimately resigned, which at that level is the preferred way to avoid having to face consequences. Even the IRS said it was neglect of duties. Funny, the IRS could not locate her emails either - erased in error. Go figure.
Christopher Wray pulls the same routine every time. Cannot talk about anything. Can't explain the leaks. Can't explain decisions made and actions taken. Zero transparency. His job is clear. Cover and protect the swamp in DC. Dirty cop.
Back to Lois Lerner and the IRS. She made the mistake of admitting the IRS targeted groups from 2010 - 2013. In fact, she publicly apologized for it. Then when called to testify she would not talk. She was placed on leave and ultimately resigned, which at that level is the preferred way to avoid having to face consequences. Even the IRS said it was neglect of duties. Funny, the IRS could not locate her emails either - erased in error. Go figure.
Christopher Wray pulls the same routine every time. Cannot talk about anything. Can't explain the leaks. Can't explain decisions made and actions taken. Zero transparency. His job is clear. Cover and protect the swamp in DC. Dirty cop.
Swamp creature.
Rinos can wear their mask for only so long. Given how massive the federal government is, it's easy to see how this happens. They hide in the shadows and then make themselves known later when they sell out the country and their party. Comey pretends to be a republican to this day. So does Mitt. So does Liz. Manchin pretended to be moderate and then sold his soul for a pipeline in WV that the climate cultist and dems say they cannot tolerate. It was ok though if it bought a vote. I don't blame a non-politician like Trump who came into the process not knowing all the frauds. He will know better when he wins in 2024.
This sounds like the HS football player that would've been D1 with a shot at the pros if his coach wasn't such an idiot and didn't know how to properly use a 5'10 chubby 165 lb RB with 5.1 40 speed. It's a lot more likely he just wasn't a good player.
Is it more likely that the entirety of Republican politics over the last 40 years were closet Democrats the whole time or that the guy who became a Republican a few years ago has convinced his followers that everyone who disagrees with him is a RINO?
Thanks Aloha for bringing the VAT into play in a thread dealing with enforcing our tax laws and suggesting a different approachGovernment is a necessary evil. We can't just throw up our hands and let it run amuck. Our elected Representatives, Senators and Presidents need to do their part in improving it. Being a conservative, I'd prefer it to be only as large as necessary and efficient. If any part of it is unnecessary, we should be getting rid of it. Of course, it's hard to do, but that's what needs to be done.
Yes, I too would like a much more simplified tax system. In fact, I'd like to phase out income tax altogether and replace it with a VAT system. Then we all pay taxes - including all the illegals and tourists. That would be a great bonus.
Here is .a good article comparing the VAT, national sales tax, and our present income tax system. It includes a discussion of the various ways the systems are enforced,
By the way, I like the VAT approach except for it being regressive as it depends on spending versus income with lower income folks spending a higher percentage of income.
Good luck proving it. Cash work is huge and in most instances the individual look so small they are not worth the look. The IRS seems to get hung up on the rich and getting more from them.
I have heard of a small business owner that shows about 30k on his annual taxes (files one return) but has two houses free and clear a 2021 loaded camper and 3 brand new cars all free and clear. Oh and his 400k account is nice as well. You speak of make up sales is that an issue anymore? My wife gets make up sent monthly from an internet store no more Mary Kay or Avon, lol.
Oh and I had a 20x20 deck priced this year. Three bids all three came with two prices.
The makeup thing was more of a dig of all of the Facebook friends that are suckered into MLM schemes because they're all "making 6 figures."Good luck proving it. Cash work is huge and in most instances the individual look so small they are not worth the look. The IRS seems to get hung up on the rich and getting more from them.
I have heard of a small business owner that shows about 30k on his annual taxes (files one return) but has two houses free and clear a 2021 loaded camper and 3 brand new cars all free and clear. Oh and his 400k account is nice as well. You speak of make up sales is that an issue anymore? My wife gets make up sent monthly from an internet store no more Mary Kay or Avon, lol.
Oh and I had a 20x20 deck priced this year. Three bids all three came with two prices.
I get it, I'm curious as to who is taxing the "Only fans" people that are all over the place. If you believe what is on Instagram and Tik Tok they claim to be making $500,000 a year or better? I'm assuming it is taxed?
I'm sure it's supposed to be.
I wonder if Madison & Jefferson ever figured the downfall of the US Treasury was going to be tax evasion by cam girls catering to foot fetishes.
Enough about your personal story. It does bring a great movie quote to mind.... Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son. Hopefully you can learn that lesson.
The idiot magistrate that issued the Trump warrant was an on-line defender of Lois Lerner, and moved directly from his "ethics" position in the DOJ to defending Jeffrey E's enablers. So much for his ethics.
Maybe I need to put the analogy in plainer terms. If everyone else thinks you're an incompetent jackass but you're convinced that it's actually everyone else that are the incompetent jackasses, it's more likely that everyone else is right and you are, in fact, an incompetent jackass.
And sticks & stones man. Please delete your account, adults are trying to have a conversation.
False.
www.snopes.com
Is IRS Hiring 87K New Agents To Audit Middle-Class Americans?
The GOP claimed newly hired tax agents will be "coming after" ordinary Americans.
www.snopes.com
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