18 Reasons I Won’t Be Getting A COVID Vaccine

[CO. Hoosier]

Of course it is wrong. But in numerous counties right now there are insufficient ICU beds/staffing. So doctors are going to choose between the COVID patient, the gunshot wound, and the car accident victim as to which gets the bed and which two will have to make do.

Since COVID started some have said we need a system that slows COVID as the rate begins taxing healthcare. There are some who have argued that any effort to slow COVID is wrong and a violation of their rights.

I note some have straddled that fence refusing to say that such triage is wrong when we have options to stop it's need.

Medical care often faces issues of allocation of limited resources. But I think vax status should never be a factor in prioritizing. That is a very dangerous and slippery slope. Should we discriminate against a bicycle rider with a head trauma for not wearing a helmet? How about discriminating against a black gun shot victim because he tried to shoot it out with the cops?

Im all in on vaccines, and I will never understand those who evangelize against them. I’m also a strong advocate for always wearing a bike helmet. But I also don’t support the discrimination against either.

 

[Sope Creek]

The notion that physicians and hospitals won’t treat, or would discrimate against unvaxxed is despicable and might be illegal under the myriad of federal health care regs. . It is certainly a violation of medical ethics. A few years ago, this would have been unheard of and widely condemned . Now it’s acceptable. We live in craziness.

Welcome to the real world, where every action causes a direct and equal reaction.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Medical care often faces issues of allocation of limited resources. But I think vax status should never be a factor in prioritizing. That is a very dangerous and slippery slope. Should we discriminate against a bicycle rider with a head trauma for not wearing a helmet? How about discriminating against a black gun shot victim because he tried to shoot it out with the cops?

Im all in on vaccines, and I will never understand those who evangelize against them. I’m also a strong advocate for always wearing a bike helmet. But I also don’t support the discrimination against either.

Who, of any consequence does support it? And I apologize if I'm ignorant of some push in the AMA to do so.
Absent that, this smells like ol' Mr. Strawman knocking at the door.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Medical care often faces issues of allocation of limited resources. But I think vax status should never be a factor in prioritizing. That is a very dangerous and slippery slope. Should we discriminate against a bicycle rider with a head trauma for not wearing a helmet? How about discriminating against a black gun shot victim because he tried to shoot it out with the cops?

Im all in on vaccines, and I will never understand those who evangelize against them. I’m also a strong advocate for always wearing a bike helmet. But I also don’t support the discrimination against either.

I did not argue for discrimination, I said it was wrong. We just need to get people to realize doctors do not want to say "you live, you die" based on any criteria. In areas right now they are asking people to help them out. Some people are instead babbling about freedom. The freedom to have a doctor make these terrible decisions?

 

[Sope Creek]

I did not argue for discrimination, I said it was wrong. We just need to get people to realize doctors do not want to say "you live, you die" based on any criteria. In areas right now they are asking people to help them out. Some people are instead babbling about freedom. The freedom to have a doctor make these terrible decisions?

Why should medical personnel have to undergo the strain of having to make those decisions? Or of potentially getting sick themselves? Or undergoing the strain of more patients than they're prepared for?

Seems to me that ability to discriminate based on vaxxed/unvaxxed is a natural outcome of people's decisions not to get vaxxed.

Somewhere else someone mentioned that evangelical protestants were the most likely group to object to vaccination for COVID . . . my guess is that this is an embodiment of their rejection of science generally . . . .

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Who, of any consequence does support it? And I apologize if I'm ignorant of some push in the AMA to do so.
Absent that, this smells like ol' Mr. Strawman knocking at the door.

You don’t like to think, do you.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Why should medical personnel have to undergo the strain of having to make those decisions? Or of potentially getting sick themselves? Or undergoing the strain of more patients than they're prepared for?

Seems to me that ability to discriminate based on vaxxed/unvaxxed is a natural outcome of people's decisions not to get vaxxed.

Somewhere else someone mentioned that evangelical protestants were the most likely group to object to vaccination for COVID . . . my guess is that this is an embodiment of their rejection of science generally . . . .

A man gets shot robbing a bank, we treat them. A person on death row has a ruptured appendix, we treat them. It is who we are.

 

[Sope Creek]

A man gets shot robbing a bank, we treat them. A person on death row has a ruptured appendix, we treat them. It is who we are.

Yeah . . . and will any of those circumstances put any medical personnel at risk of getting shot, or getting a ruptured appendix?

Will any of those circumstances overwhelm an ER, or an ICU?

Will any of those circumstances require a doctor or nurse to triage patients?

Each of those circumstances - and CO's bicycle helmet example too - is readily distinguishable.

Sometimes we have to face the fact of our limitations . . . .

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You don’t like to think, do you.

Why should I? I’ve got you to do it for me.

So, is this an admission that no one of consequence is advocating for discriminating (nice loaded word, btw) against anti-vaxxers?

 

[Sope Creek]

Why should I? I’ve got you to do it for me.

Sorry, but Co is triaging posters today . . . he's overwhelmed by the CPU power of those disagreeing with him . . . .

 

[VanPastorMan]

Fine. Don't get vaccinated.

By the same libertarian thinking, medical providers ought to be able to refuse treatment to those who are unvaccinated. Makes perfect sense to me . . . if you're unwilling to do the preventative measures, medical personnel, hospitals, dentists, restaurant owners, servers . . . anybody . . . ought to be able to refuse you treatment and/or service. You can do whatever you want so long as you're willing to live with the consequences.

Your choice.

How about getting a covid text before a doctor condemns someone to being untreated?

 

[Sope Creek]

How about getting a covid text before a doctor condemns someone to being untreated?

Text? You must mean test . . .

 

[VanPastorMan]

Text? You must mean test . . .

Thanks, yes I meant test. Give a guy a covid test before refusing treatment.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Why should I? I’ve got you to do it for me.

So, is this an admission that no one of consequence is advocating for discriminating (nice loaded word, btw) against anti-vaxxers?

i have no clue about what you mean by person “of consequence“. All I know is that individual providers and a number of different pundits are advocating this.

 

[Sope Creek]

Thanks, yes I meant test. Give a guy a covid test before refusing treatment.

I'll let the medical experts sort out the protocol for making this decision. For me, there'd be two factors . . . first, whether the patient had been vaccinated (and whether the vaccinations were complete or not) and second, whether the person had COVID.

I suspect that the protocol would be time consuming, which would weigh in favor of Marv's nondiscrimination position . . .

. . . nevertheless, I think this should be looked at.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Yeah . . . and will any of those circumstances put any medical personnel at risk of getting shot, or getting a ruptured appendix?

We went through this argument with AIDS. AIDS really was a death sentence and we opted in favor of universal precautions with no discrimination. For those who are vaccinated, a breakthrough infection is basically the flu. I think you are way overstating the problem.

 

[Sope Creek]

We went through this argument with AIDS. AIDS really was a death sentence and we opted in favor of universal precautions with no discrimination. For those who are vaccinated, a breakthrough infection is basically the flu. I think you are way overstating the problem.

I am . . . not. Hospitals are failing, or close to failing because of unvaccinated folks with COVID.

As COVID-19 surge continues, Georgia hospitals running out of ICU beds

Intensive care units overflowing with COVID-19 patients are the biggest challenge facing Georgia hospitals now, officials say

www.ajc.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/12/mississippi-hospital-failure-covid-icu/

 

[mcmurtry66]

I am . . . not. Hospitals are failing, or close to failing because of unvaccinated folks with COVID.

As COVID-19 surge continues, Georgia hospitals running out of ICU beds

Intensive care units overflowing with COVID-19 patients are the biggest challenge facing Georgia hospitals now, officials say

www.ajc.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/12/mississippi-hospital-failure-covid-icu/

45 icu beds shouldn't be the marker that shuts down a community. we either need to come up w/ alternative care systems or amend existing laws to discrim in treatment imo

 

[Sope Creek]

45 icu beds shouldn't be the marker that shuts down a community. we either need to come up w/ alternative care systems or amend existing laws to discrim in treatment imo

Really? You can decide that for a community in another state from St. Louis?

Maybe we ought to give medical provider administrators some credit, and look elsewhere for the cause of the shutdowns . . . after all, most of the medical providers are private businesses who have to manage financial risk in addition to their mission to care for sick and injured patients.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Really? You can decide that for a community in another state from St. Louis?

Maybe we ought to give medical provider administrators some credit, and look elsewhere for the cause of the shutdowns . . . after all, most of the medical providers are private businesses who have to manage financial risk in addition to their mission to care for sick and injured patients.

absolutely. i've listened to it for the better part of two years in counties in southern illinois where limited beds shut down communities. schools. sports. businesses. you were literally talking about a dozen sick people.

this isn't an indictment on medical providers or administrators. we all know they are doing the best they can. we've given out trillions of dollars in stim money. it's an indictment on gov(s) to not find alternative care solutions. cdc outlines programs for same.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

My ability to do what I think is best for me, is your cost of living in a "civilized" society. Your ability to force me to do what ever you want me to do, is not a cost I will pay nor is it "civilized".
It seems most all arguments between left and right are about the left wanting to force their will (wear your seat belt, pay more money to be distributed to others, Use your efforts to support those who won't), while the Right (apropriatly called that for a reason BTW) defends peoples rights that built this country.

A Cliff Claven interjection: The Right isn't called the Right because they are more concerned with individual rights. They're called that because the leading up to the French Revolution, the members of the National Assembly that supported the King sat on the right side of the chamber, the revolutionists sat on the left. Had the person who coined the phrase been looking at the chamber from the opposite direction, the terms would be reversed.

Left–right political spectrum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bowlmania]

Death from Covid is already a fraction of 1% and has been since the beginning of the pandemic.

1) Did you get the vaccine?
2) Do you dispute that the vaccine is saving lives?
3) Do you dispute that the vaccine is keeping people out of the hospital?
4) Do you get off on arguing with people just for the sake of arguing?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

A Cliff Claven interjection: The Right isn't called the Right because they are more concerned with individual rights. They're called that because the leading up to the French Revolution, the members of the National Assembly that supported the King sat on the right side of the chamber, the revolutionists sat on the left. Had the person who coined the phrase been looking at the chamber from the opposite direction, the terms would be reversed.

Left–right political spectrum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh sure Brad. The next thing you'll tell me is that the Left isn't named Left because they've "left" everything thing they've touched in a state of communist decay.

And I love me some Cliff Claven.

 

[Sope Creek]

absolutely. i've listened to it for the better part of two years in counties in southern illinois where limited beds shut down communities. schools. sports. businesses. you were literally talking about a dozen sick people.

this isn't an indictment on medical providers or administrators. we all know they are doing the best they can. we've given out trillions of dollars in stim money. it's an indictment on gov(s) to not find alternative care solutions. cdc outlines programs for same.

. . . is it government's problem to solve if a high percentage of vaccine-eligible folks elect not to get the vaccine? What should government have done to prepare for that? Careful . . . you're about ready to indict the Trump administration with your answer . . . .

Should government have surveyed the public to learn which folks would decline the vaccine?

What? How do you prepare for folks being irrational?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

i have no clue about what you mean by person “of consequence“. All I know is that individual providers and a number of different pundits are advocating this.

Hint...you aren't one.
(Neither am I)

 

[mcmurtry66]

. . . is it government's problem to solve if a high percentage of vaccine-eligible folks elect not to get the vaccine? What should government have done to prepare for that? Careful . . . you're about ready to indict the Trump administration with your answer . . . .

Should government have surveyed the public to learn which folks would decline the vaccine?

What? How do you prepare for folks being irrational?

Biden has a distinct advantage over trump: the benefit of time passing. Data on vax safety. It's no longer novel. His messaging should be easier. His own constituents he panders to aren't even at 30 percent. In truth we rarely even see biden.

But vax, while integral, are only part of the solution. Where are ideas beyond masks? We're in the third school year. Why haven't we aggressively sought to fund innovative care expansion? We just keep kicking the can. And who's to say more variants aren't coming down the pike. We better start getting creative.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Sorry, but Co is triaging posters today . . . he's overwhelmed by the CPU power of those disagreeing with him . . . .

Then I'm SOL.
Using the triage metaphor, I'm Level P4, at best...

 

[jet812]

Plus, one way or another, the vaxed are likely to be required to pay at least some of the heathcare costs of the unvaxed (through taxation for increased govt benefits higher insurance premiums, etc.). It's cheaper overall just to get the damn shot that he claims he's not afraid of.

Hahaha, that’s rich, you expressing concern over paying someone else’s bills. That’s what Dems always want to do….

 

[bawlmer]

We went through this argument with AIDS. AIDS really was a death sentence and we opted in favor of universal precautions with no discrimination. For those who are vaccinated, a breakthrough infection is basically the flu. I think you are way overstating the problem.

The difference with COVID is capacity. Facilities and personnel are stretched to the breaking point in many areas. Your hypothetical fails to account that these are triage decisions that rightfully are made by medical professionals. The question is whether a patient's failure to vaccinate should be taken into account for who gets first access.

I'm not a medical professional, but I have trouble prioritizing someone who refused a vaccine and now assumes a right to every possible life-saving medical technology. They shouldn't be denied access to available care, but their decision not to vaccinate can be considered in triage.

 

[jet812]

Why should medical personnel have to undergo the strain of having to make those decisions? Or of potentially getting sick themselves? Or undergoing the strain of more patients than they're prepared for?

Seems to me that ability to discriminate based on vaxxed/unvaxxed is a natural outcome of people's decisions not to get vaxxed.

Somewhere else someone mentioned that evangelical protestants were the most likely group to object to vaccination for COVID . . . my guess is that this is an embodiment of their rejection of science generally . . . .

Because they’ve taken an oath to do so. Just as they have to strain to move around obese patients, treat cancer patients, people with with AIDS, STD’s, the flu, measles, mumps, gunshot wounds, overdoses, & any number of maladies that are a result of personal choice, & sometimes are certainly communicable.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The difference with COVID is capacity. Facilities and personnel are stretched to the breaking point in many areas. Your hypothetical fails to account that these are triage decisions that rightfully are made by medical professionals. The question is whether a patient's failure to vaccinate should be taken into account for who gets first access.

I'm not a medical professional, but I have trouble prioritizing someone who refused a vaccine and now assumes a right to every possible life-saving medical technology. They shouldn't be denied access to available care, but their decision not to vaccinate can be considered in triage.

Sounds to me like you are making a case for death panels.

If bicyclist presents with a severe head trauma who didn’t use a helmet, does he have a right to every possible treatment?

 

[IUINSB]

Sounds to me like you are making a case for death panels.

If bicyclist presents with a severe head trauma who didn’t use a helmet, does he have a right to every possible treatment?

I missed the news that hospitals are being overwhelmed by cycling morons who are not wearing helmets.

Yeah, yeah, nuance..

 

[bawlmer]

Sounds to me like you are making a case for death panels.

If bicyclist presents with a severe head trauma who didn’t use a helmet, does he have a right to every possible treatment?

lol. Most people in trauma did something stupid. We spend millions to save them. I hope the same would happen for me.

We're talking about who gets the next available ICU bed, when the ICU is already full of COVID patients. If you're the bicyclist with the cracked skull, would you want the decision to consider whether the other patient was unvaccinated?

 

[bawlmer]

Sounds to me like you are making a case for death panels.

If bicyclist presents with a severe head trauma who didn’t use a helmet, does he have a right to every possible treatment?

ps - Does anyone have a "right" to every possible treatment? Considering that hospital and insurance bureaucrats routinely make decisions about patients' access to care, I don't think you meant that in the Constitutional sense.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I missed the news that hospitals are being overwhelmed by cycling morons who are not wearing helmets.

Yeah, yeah, nuance..

COH is ALL IN on this particular straw man. That usually means he's got nothing.

 

[Sope Creek]

Then I'm SOL.
Using the triage metaphor, I'm Level P4, at best...

I guess we can call you Ol' Blue . . . .

 

[Sope Creek]

In truth we rarely even see biden.

You don't watch the MSM news, do you?

 

[mcmurtry66]

You don't watch the MSM news, do you?

i flip channels. i hear jen fielding questions often. biden rarely

White House insists Biden is not avoiding questions after days of avoiding questions

‘Biden doesn’t shy away from questions as much as his team shields him from them,’ former RNC spokesman says

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Sope Creek]

i flip channels. i hear jen fielding questions often. biden rarely

White House insists Biden is not avoiding questions after days of avoiding questions

‘Biden doesn’t shy away from questions as much as his team shields him from them,’ former RNC spokesman says

www.independent.co.uk

The MSM News has him on all the time.

I hope you're not expecting him to follow in Trump's footsteps . . . that guy was a publicity hound if there ever was one. Couldn't let anybody do anything because he was afraid they'd get credit . . . Pence and the COVID task force is just one example among many . . . .

 

[mcmurtry66]

The MSM News has him on all the time.

I hope you're not expecting him to follow in Trump's footsteps . . . that guy was a publicity hound if there ever was one. Couldn't let anybody do anything because he was afraid they'd get credit . . . Pence and the COVID task force is just one example among many . . . .

one of trump's many, many faults. narcissistic prick