Z on Fox
- Thread starter The Original Happy Goat
- Start date
I’ve got an itchy feeling one side of this argument would stay the same and the other side would flip-flop if we were the ones in Ukraine’s shoes…
DANC I think it was posted a reduction in involvement while still showing support. Seems a good approach. Passive aggressive notice
Yeah . . .
Trump and Putin like each other have each others back
Trump will sell out Ukraine for his own benefit
Don’t Trust Trump
Trump can't perform any promise he makes to Ukraine
Trump is in this for himself
You will regret getting in bed with Trump
Trump thinks you are an incompetent Dictator.
Personally, I think it would be based if we were to do our own ransomware attacks on Russian entities as this was going on - through (ahem) intermediaries, of course. Have to have plausible deniability.Any leader seeing his people suffer like he has isn't going to enjoy playing games.
The same people who hate diplomatic speech now hate him for keeping it real. Yes, it would have been great to keep his cool. At the same point, one can't fault him for trying to be clear that Ukraine had a deal in place after giving up on Crimea. Do we really want a desk so badly that we will concede every single point to Russia? We suddenly no longer accept Russia is a cyber security threat. Yet Russia dominates the ransomware attacks. What sort of negotiation is it if it requires us to kowtow on absolutely everything?
Trump administration retreats in fight against Russian cyber threats
Recent incidents indicate US is no longer characterizing Russia as a cybersecurity threat, marking a radical departure: ‘Putin is on the inside now’www.theguardian.com
I also saw a military person say Z should really have a translator at all times. That whole his English is very good for a second language, it can be a disadvantage in situations like Friday.
Good post by the way.
So nothing, just your opinion and you will never change that no matter what.
Z knows the Rs have all branches of government. Unless he is an utter moron he knows there is nothing the Ds can do for him. But you see a Democrat behind everything, more paranoid than tail-gunner Joe.
Well, if push comes to shove about who to trust between Zelenskyy and Trump, I’m going with Trump. I don’t think z is either or a good guy or very competent and have thought this for a year or so now.
There's an early episode in Rome titled "How Titus Pullo Brought Down the Republic." The plot is that Pullo got drunk and attacked someone, and that guy tries to get revenge on him by killing him in the forum while he is acting as Mark Antony's bodyguard. But everyone assumes Antony is the target, outrage ensues, and Caesar marches on Rome.
Don't know why pictures of Vance make me think of that episode.
All that may be but that’s inapposite to what’s germane. Having a deal in place. A vetted deal. Prior to putting on the show.
I can’t get behind Zelensky on this one like you can. He is a rat. We should be done with him. I wouldn’t trust him even if he came back with hat in hand.
It’s amazing to me to see all the Zelenskyy sympathy around here.
They scrubbed it. The real time reporting said Biden swore at him.
I thought Trump was outlining a very goiod deal with ongoing commitments beyond guns and ammo. Yeah a lot of details needed to be worked out, but that is why we have so many staffers.
But we can each believe what we want.
Every smart person in the world has said most of those. You choose to be on the team that says,"trust Putin, he is one hell of a good dude".
Z knew all that, Ukraine saw it first hand when Russia shat on the Crimea agreement. There was a conservative who said,"Trust but verify." It has been replaced with "Trust blindly and sick up".
Remember how you stood and applauded Reagan for "we begin bombing in 5 minutes"? Could you imagine Reagan only saying nice things about a Gaddafy or Ayatollah Khomeini to get a deal? Neither can I.
Almost as amazing as the love and respect for Putin
Churchill said he would put a good word into parliament for Satan if Satan helped defeat Hitler. If Z is as bad as you say, that analogy still holds. List please all the nations Z has invaded and all the nations P has invaded. I bet you don't have the courage to list those.
I’ll give you one point: If Harris, Whitmer, or Buttigieg succeed Trump, you can kiss off any agreement because Russia will take more bites at the apple.
Listen I know little about global shit but my gut is to get out. Scale down. Stop throwing good money after bad. I’d let him know you’re largely where you were and we just can’t fund anymore so we’re going to take steps to scale back but we sympathize with your station and will provide you notice so you can take appropriate measures
Who cares that world leaders get upset with each other in private? Heated conversations have probably happened during nearly every President’s tenure.
What happened in public was unprecedented and embarrassing. They should have had their negotiations in private, heated or not. And the VP should STFU during the public preliminaries. The President is the boss, not him. This was the President’s show, not his. Vance made the President look weak.
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Link?
This whole thread is about how Trump screwed up and how Zelenskyy is a poor suffering representative of poor suffering people and Trump tried to steamroll him. Bleah! Even from some who voiced support for Trump. Bleah!
Hello, you are trying to steamroll him. Z needs to give ground but needs guarantees. You blow past that, Putin is great, Ukraine can trust him.
Reagan would be damn disappointed in what the GOP has become. All of you sound more like Jane Fonda than Reagan.
As myself and many others here have said... The blame lies almost entirely not on Trump, but Vance, who apparently decided he needed to repeat his campaign stump speech at the end of a perfectly fine meeting and press conference.
No it’s trump’s duty to set the stage in advance including telling subordinates keep your mouth shut. Unlike most I do like trump and I think he’s funny as shit but his leadership/organizational skills are questionable. This is tantamount to handing the mic over to that worthless fauci during Covid. Trump and trump alone should have spoken.
Well I certainly agree with that. Trump could have easily shut it down and everything would have been fine. But we all know he's not capable of being the adult in the room.
Baloney!
The German socialists have destroyed Europe's industrial powerhouse, reducing it to a Balkanized group of states unable to organize enough political will to develop any direction or approach to extricate themselves from the morass they have created. The UK has devolved, and as we read from their Minister of Defense, unable to defend themselves, yet continue to throw good money at the coked-up comedian as he completes his latest begathon.
France? Laughable. Belgium? Helpless bureaucracy. Hungary gives the middle finger to the EU. Poland can't wait to divvy up what's left of Ukraine.
There is no option, and no country extant PDJT gives a fig about pissing off...
Couple of "odd" notes to all of this. Trump stated he talked to Putin a couple of days prior but there was no white press release about that conversation. The first anyone heard about it was during this shit show. Then a Russian state media "journalist" was there live streaming the oval office meeting. Turns out they didn't have clearance and was escorted out after the meeting. How did they get in the oval office without official press clearance?
I don't know if there is anything there other than some mix ups but it's all very odd.
The purpose of the meeting was to confer and celebrate a substantial benefit to Ukraine’s economic well being and future. All Zelenskyy had to do was accept. Everyone in the room knew there was more to come, but this deal put the United States and Ukraine on the same sheet of music.
Zelensky blew it up, not Trump and not Vance. I don’t know if it was Ukrainian oligarchs or American Democrats, or both. But the deal fell apart after the celebration was planned.
Too bad
We need to butt out.
I am out.
If you keep at it, you gonna be all kinds of Hip, like the rest of us kids! LOL !!
Next time, drop the "is".. simply "That all you got?"
You are so close professor!
Anything less, would be a direct and existential threat to Democracy! I'm very happy to see that you are on board finally.
I had not considered that our very own Dem's may have had a finger in ruining this pie. ...
Fvckin Nancy, Shucrotum and Pencil Neck. When does their shelf life expire already?
The thing that still kills me is that it really didn't look coordinated between Trump and Vance. Vance and Z had to go back and forth for a few rounds before Trump jumped in. At first, it looked like Trump was genuinely interested in their discussion, like he was considering their points because they were genuinely new to him. I really think that the most likely scenario is that Vance was not scripted to be part of that conversation, and forced his way in.
If I were Trump, I'd be furious, although if he is, I'm glad he's keeping it private instead of airing out a disagreement with his own Veep in public. Also, there's no chance that every single person in that White House is a fan of Vance, right? You'd have to think there are people close to POTUS who are in his ear telling him that Vance is trying to muscle in on his territory.
It’s like watching the apprentice. Great show at moments. Meatloaf. Gary busey. I think trump just allows his peeps a voice. It’s in keeping with the Covid pandemic response. A curse and a blessing. As for Vance he’s obviously an incredibly smart guy. Yale is one thing but elegy. Wow. But I’m getting that stay at home Pete vibe on roids. I’m suspending for the moment but I’ll turn quickly
Doc brûlée sorry you’re included in this. I’m dumb. It wasn’t intended. I hate Biden
There are different kinds of smart. One kind is a guy has a brain that works really well. He can accomplish tasks and absorb data and solve puzzles and take tests, etc. Another kind is a guy who has a collection of knowledge that is both broad and deep, and is therefore capable of synthesizing profound and complex understandings of difficult topics. Vance strikes me as the former. I wouldn't want to bet money against him on a quiz show, but I also wouldn't go to him for advice on something as complicated and subtle as international diplomacy.
So foolish. The overly academic view guys like Blinken, Obama and Jake Sullivan took towards, foreign policy and diplomacy is the reason for most of the crap that was dumped into Trump’s lap.
Foreign policy and international diplomacy is a 5th grade playground. Who’s strong, who’s weak, who can make a credible threat of force, who can’t. Who has leverage and who doesn’t?
Russia is strong, Ukraine is weak. The U.S. is strong, the rest of NATO is weak.
Ergo. Let the U.S. and Russia hammer out an end to this crap without the weak morons getting involved.
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1,200 innocent Israelis died on 10/7
12,000 innocent Ukrainians have died since 2022
but you do you…
you get a thumbs up from van pastor man, it a 98 % chance you said something stupid
