Z on Fox
- Thread starter The Original Happy Goat
- Start date
Bret Baier affirming that he’s still the last real Newsman.
I understand Zelensky’s POV. He needs to play to his audience. Trump is not hard to win to your side, with proper genuflecting.
Macron and Starmer went in there days earlier and played him like a fiddle.
I understand Zelensky’s POV. He needs to play to his audience. Trump is not hard to win to your side, with proper genuflecting.
Macron and Starmer went in there days earlier and played him like a fiddle.
Russian misinformation sites say he’s gay.I certainly hope not:
Zelensky should have come to the WhiteHouse with a special “gold” medal exclaiming what a great man Trump is, the greatest ever!
Smerconish had on an admiral, name I do not recall, who said he thinks Zs mistake was not having a translator. He said that the line that set everything off fits Ukrainian sensibilities but doesn't translate directly to American in a way that doesn't sound more problematic. Smerconish that this made sense, that at Fox there was a translator off set and Smerconish clearly pauses and looks at them.
Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process. - E.B. White
You guys are a ****ing horrible audience.
I read that at one point he says something that could be taken as calling someone a bitch, but in common usage it's an expression of frustration like "son of a bitch, are you kidding me?"
I do think the language barrier just made it worse. Whoever the asshole was in the blue jacket who went at him about not wearing a suit should get a boot up the ass.
It looks very much like Trump and Z were having a fine conversation until Vance butted in. A lot of the things people are bringing up to complain about Z happened early, and Trump had no problem with them. In fact, even when Z and Vance started going at it, Trump seemed to listen to Z and look at Vance with an expression like, "That's a good point, JD, what do you say to that?" But then it kept going and something made Trump shift from Z to Vance and once he got on a rager there was no stopping it.Here's the whole event. 50 minutes.
President Trump Meets with Ukrainian President Zelensky
A heated argument broke out between President Donald Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, and Vice President JD Vance in the White House Oval Office. The confrontation occurred before a deal was supposed to be made between Ukraine and the United States in which Ukraine would give the...www.c-span.org
Featured clip:
Trump-Zelensky Oval Office Meeting Erupts in Anger
The Oval Office meeting between President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky erupts in a shouting match and ends with Mr. Trump telling the Ukrainian leader "You've got to be more thankful...you don't have the cards." Zelensky later left the White House after a joint press conference was...
Either Vance and Trump teamed up on Z and ambushed him, or Vance waited or his opportunity to undermine Trump and sabotage the meeting. It certainly looks like the latter, which I hope isn't the case. But that's what it looks like.
I think Vance got spun up and felt he had an obligation to defend Trump to keep Trump looking "presidential". Then Trump didn't want to be out-bulldogged by Vance and a feeding frenzy occurred. Zelensky's English isn't good and it appeared he didn't understand the card analogy or what he had done wrong.
All he had to do though was was smile and shake hands and say thanks, but didn't. This thing should have been worked out in private anyway with the presser coming at the end.
There's one on X with the title JD Vance News that's fairly convincing initially... They'll mix 5 tidbits of real information in along with one semi-believable whooper...
It's a jungle out there!
Looks to me like Z addressed Vance with something about him not visiting. Vance didn’t “butt in”. I think Vance could have handled his response with less defensiveness but there is no doubt Z escalated with something about feeling the war.
I think you could be accurately reading the social dynamics of the situation as it started going downhill, but I don't buy your read on Vance's motivation. At the time, Z was doing nothing to attack Trump or make him look less presidential. They were getting along famously. The only person who was getting into an argument with Z was Vance. It's like he forced it.
I have in the past had some experience with anger issues. I have been in situations which after the fact I recognize as self-fulfilling conflicts. That is to say, I enter a situation already deciding that there is going to be a fight, and I find a way to make sure that happens. It's been a major point of my own failures I've been working on for years, so I'm quite sensitive to it. That's what it looked like was happening with Vance. Like he entered the room already angry with Z and was forcing himself to turn their discussion into a fight.
Z didn't address Vance until Vance addressed him. Vance wasn't even a part of the conversation until he made himself so.
I think he was pissed about things said before this meeting ever happened - campaigning in PA, conversations in Germany, etc... He was spoiling for a fight because he thought Trump was slighted.
Makes the second half of your post ring true.
I think our only possible point of departure is you seem to assume Vance did it out of obligation to Trump, while I assume it was selfish. Maybe assume is too strong a word. Let's just say we seem to have slightly different default starting points for interpreting Vance's behavior.
I think we're saying the same thing. I believe his obligation to Trump is based in his desire to further his political interests. If he doesn't go ham, he's not doing what he needs to do in order to take the next step, which is being president.
So? Was Vance a potted plant?
Vance diplomacy comment didn’t take the conversation off the rails. Z did that.
Ya gotta remember that z rules under Marshall law having cancelled the last election. Peace probably means the end of him— unless the oligarchs find it their best interests to keep him.
Vance manufactured an argument for his audience of two-Trump and Putin. Get used to it.
That is what the President and Vice President were trying to tell him. He has no bargaining chips without the USA.
Yes he does. He has more bargaining chips with the US but it isn't like he has none. They could go "ceasefire" and then go underground in the Russian occupied territories much like the Russians did with them. There will exist sympathetic Ukrainians in the Donbas who could do things to make life difficult for an occupying force.
A bunch of goat herders with rifles outlasted us and the Russians. Why couldn't that be in effect in Crimea, the Donbas, and Luhansk. Without the US to restrain, what is to stop them from further drone attacks deep inside Russia? They have shown a capability of doing that already.
There are plenty of cards left to play. It is just a more difficult hand without the US. And frankly, we are standing to lose quite a bit more than Russia or Ukraine from how this went down. I think our European "friends" deserve quite a bit of criticism for why we got here, but a degradation of those relationships isn't going to be all peachy for us either.
COH used to be at least be interesting with his takes. Now he's just comical and dishonest. By law, martial law is imposed in warfare, and by law, elections are suspended during martial law. COH knows this.
The martial law argument is irrelevant imo because the opposition in the Ukraine parliament just voted to continue it. If the public had a problem they would not have done so. If the opposition in parliament said ok continue where's the issue?
I used to enjoy his clashes with Rockfish.
You guys are dumb as shit. Z cancelled elections, rules under marshal law, comes to the White House and acts tough to boost his cred back home and you guys support that. ! Yeah let’s attack Trump and Vance and forget the objective of ending the war.
Trump gave Z a four-lane off ramp to make something of the end of war and idiots attack that because you are reflexively anti- Trump.
Once in a while it would be nice for the board to discuss big policy issues without discussing who advances them. But that is asking way too much if some of you clowns.
Rockfish’s dunning default was dumb as shit. The entire board suffers from same. Absent same we’d never opine to anything. I’d be limited to euro soccer regional wrestling and bravo
The Dunning fits with a poster who admits no matter the evidence he isn't changing his mind
It’s a cognitive defect/bias where one overestimates their knowledge in a given area. Again that’s all of us
I got the highest grade in the class in law and psychology!!!!! LET’S FCKING GOOOOOO!!!!!!! Had I not gotten the lowest in a couple others we’d have been cookin with 🔥🔥🔥
What's eventually going to happen is over the long term he will piss off enough people that our quality of life will deteriorate. He is trying to renegotiate his own negotiated USMCA. That's not how you conduct business in my book. He will get some short term wins and pain for others with his tarrifs. Eventually they will start trading with others and cut us out. And slowly the dollar is being undermined. I've never heard the case that the European Union was created to screw the US. It's not in the top 10 reasons that come to mind the main one being to prevent what we see right now between Russia and Ukraine. But his strategy of pissing everyone off and acting like the 800 lb gorilla is going to do real long term damage to those of us still around 50 years from now imo.
Until and unless we tackle our fiscal albatross, our quality of life is destined to decline no matter who’s in office.
As you have pointed out, Medicare and Social Security are the albatross. Everything else is nibbling a long the edges. But it is nice to rewrite JFK:
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay no price, bear no burden, meet no hardship, support no friend, oppose no foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
