Z on Fox

[The Original Happy Goat]

Zelenskyy messed up. He gave a great interview in which he painted a picture of Ukrainian and American partnership in honest, open, and very transparent terms. He didn't insult anyone. But he was very open about what he thinks and what he wants. He sounded like a real leader. He sounded like he cares about truth and accountability.

I don't think that's a winner with Trump.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Zelenskyy messed up. He gave a great interview in which he painted a picture of Ukrainian and American partnership in honest, open, and very transparent terms. He didn't insult anyone. But he was very open about what he thinks and what he wants. He sounded like a real leader. He sounded like he cares about truth and accountability.

I don't think that's a winner with Trump.

Move to Kiev.
They need people like you

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Move to Kiev.
They need people like you

Move to Moscow. They already pay you, right?

 

[mrhighlife]

Move to Moscow. They already pay you, right?

That's the saddest part. He isn't even getting paid to be racist and horribly uninformed. Doing it on his own dime.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Zelenskyy messed up. He gave a great interview in which he painted a picture of Ukrainian and American partnership in honest, open, and very transparent terms. He didn't insult anyone. But he was very open about what he thinks and what he wants. He sounded like a real leader. He sounded like he cares about truth and accountability.

I don't think that's a winner with Trump.

I think we aren’t seeing the whole story. We provide Ukraine with a lot of non-military economic aid. Allegedly we don’t have much control over that. This is against a backdrop of Ukraine’s history of considerable corruption.

I tend to believe poking Putin with a stick is not as important as our money.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I have absolutely no beef with Zelenskyy. His leadership under awful circumstances has been courageous and bold.

But I think he needs to come to terms with the reality of his situation and the options it affords. To me, he seems to be clinging on to the idea that he can get all or most of Donbas and Crimea back. And that ship sailed a long time ago.

He may not like the sort of arrangement that Trump is proposing. And I’m sure he’ll want to hone the terms more in his favor.

But does he have any better options — ones that exist in reality?

 

[BadWakeboarder]

I have absolutely no beef with Zelenskyy. His leadership under awful circumstances has been courageous and bold.

But I think he needs to come to terms with the reality of his situation and the options it affords. To me, he seems to be clinging on to the idea that he can get all or most of Donbas and Crimea back. And that ship sailed a long time ago.

He may not like the sort of arrangement that Trump is proposing. And I’m sure he’ll want to hone the terms more in his favor.

But does he have any better options — ones that exist in reality?

Exactly

 

[toastedbread]

I have absolutely no beef with Zelenskyy. His leadership under awful circumstances has been courageous and bold.

But I think he needs to come to terms with the reality of his situation and the options it affords. To me, he seems to be clinging on to the idea that he can get all or most of Donbas and Crimea back. And that ship sailed a long time ago.

He may not like the sort of arrangement that Trump is proposing. And I’m sure he’ll want to hone the terms more in his favor.

But does he have any better options — ones that exist in reality?

The problem is they have no men left to fight.

Here's the main issue... Trump is holding a gun to Zelensky and saying take this or else. At the same time he is handing Putin a golden platter. Where is the American national interest reflected in this? Forget about what Ukraine is getting or not getting. We have invested considerably and bludgeoned the Russians to the point they are relying on North Korean soldiers. What is Russia giving us?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

The problem is they have no men left to fight.

Here's the main issue... Trump is holding a gun to Zelensky and saying take this or else. At the same time he is handing Putin a golden platter. Where is the American national interest reflected in this? Forget about what Ukraine is getting or not getting. We have invested considerably and bludgeoned the Russians to the point they are relying on North Korean soldiers. What is Russia giving us?

I’ve made the very same observations with the very same criticisms.

I’m not carrying Trump’s water here. At all. What he’s doing is despicable.

I just don’t think Zelenskyy has much choice.

 

[ButHerEmails]

That's the saddest part. He isn't even getting paid to be racist and horribly uninformed. Doing it on his own dime.

If you’re good at something, never do it for free. Everyone knows that.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Fighting for a free western nation against
The oppressive eastern bully is apparently an antiquated thought. Sad that kowtowing to communist leaders is now seen as leadership. The USSR had plenty of nukes when Reagan gave them his middle finger

 

[UncleMark]

Here's the main issue... Trump is holding a gun to Zelensky and saying take this or else. At the same time he is handing Putin a golden platter. Where is the American national interest reflected in this? Forget about what Ukraine is getting or not getting. We have invested considerably and bludgeoned the Russians to the point they are relying on North Korean soldiers. What is Russia giving us?

I may not be understanding, but isn't Z just asking for security guarantees that Trump is unwilling to give?

 

[BradStevens]

Zelenskyy messed up. He gave a great interview in which he painted a picture of Ukrainian and American partnership in honest, open, and very transparent terms. He didn't insult anyone. But he was very open about what he thinks and what he wants. He sounded like a real leader. He sounded like he cares about truth and accountability.

I don't think that's a winner with Trump.

Watching Trump's response in that heated exchange at the White House reminded me of Sonny with Sollozzo. Only in this situation, Trump was Sonny and JD was Vito. Just ignore this if you've never seen one of the greatest movies of all time (@mcmurtry66 ).

 

[toastedbread]

I’ve made the very same observations with the very same criticisms.

I’m not carrying Trump’s water here. At all. What he’s doing is despicable.

I just don’t think Zelenskyy has much choice.

If the deal isn't worth the paper it's written on what's the point of signing? How are unmined potentially worthless minerals a security guarentees much less a trip wire?

To me the Ukrainian are giving nothing and getting nothing. The US is just saying we aren't involved period. Putin do what you want.

 

[toastedbread]

I may not be understanding, but isn't Z just asking for security guarantees that Trump is unwilling to give?

Trump renigs on his own agreements. See USMCA. Zelensky might as well sign and then push for more, which is what he implied during the meeting. To me this agreement itself is meaningless, but just an excuse to claim now we are at Peace. How long will that ceasefire last?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

If the deal isn't worth the paper it's written on what's the point of signing? How are unmined potentially worthless minerals a security guarentees much less a trip wire?

To me the Ukrainian are giving nothing and getting nothing. The US is just saying we aren't involved period. Putin do what you want.

Well, I don’t agree with this.

I just think it’s not very favorable for Ukraine. But that’s reflective of the situation on the ground, unfortunately.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Trump renigs on his own agreements. See USMCA. Zelensky might as well sign and then push for more, which is what he implied during the meeting. To me this agreement itself is meaningless, but just an excuse to claim now we are at Peace. How long will that ceasefire last?

Uh, it’s “reneges”

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I have absolutely no beef with Zelenskyy. His leadership under awful circumstances has been courageous and bold.

But I think he needs to come to terms with the reality of his situation and the options it affords. To me, he seems to be clinging on to the idea that he can get all or most of Donbas and Crimea back. And that ship sailed a long time ago.

He may not like the sort of arrangement that Trump is proposing. And I’m sure he’ll want to hone the terms more in his favor.

But does he have any better options — ones that exist in reality?

Although improbable, I am not ready to give up the Donbas or Crimea yet. Just FYI, this is from an ideology position, not a militarily plausibility position.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Watching Trump's response in that heated exchange at the White House reminded me of Sonny with Sollozzo. Only in this situation, Trump was Sonny and JD was Vito. Just ignore this if you've never seen one of the greatest movies of all time (@mcmurtry66 ).

View embedded media

Well shiot, now I know what I am doing between now and game tip off...

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Although improbable, I am not ready to give up the Donbas or Crimea yet. Just FYI, this is from an ideology position, not a militarily plausibility position.

Which one of those matter?

 

[IUCrazy2]

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Which one of those matter?

Both.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I have absolutely no beef with Zelenskyy. His leadership under awful circumstances has been courageous and bold.

But I think he needs to come to terms with the reality of his situation and the options it affords. To me, he seems to be clinging on to the idea that he can get all or most of Donbas and Crimea back. And that ship sailed a long time ago.

He may not like the sort of arrangement that Trump is proposing. And I’m sure he’ll want to hone the terms more in his favor.

But does he have any better options — ones that exist in reality?

I think he's looking for guarantees, which it seems hasn't been brought to him.

 

[UncleMark]

Trudeau invites Zelensky to friendly pick-your-brain coffee chat about being invaded by warmongering neighbour

KYIV, UKRAINE - Citing a desire to “connect face to face”, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau recently reached out to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy with an aim to “share some insights” about being invaded by a hostile neighbouring superpower.

www.thebeaverton.com

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I think he's looking for guarantees, which it seems hasn't been brought to him.

Wouldn't you? I would be!
But there is demanding them, and respectfully asking for them. This is where Trumps comment about weak cards and strong cards come from. Bent knee, hat in hand we need you or YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND COCKSUCKER.
Which of these are less aggressive?
Z ain't done yet, but he's being taught a lesson in negotiation, from THE DON.
I can't say that I totally agree, but I'm VERY interested in how this works out.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Fighting for a free western nation against
The oppressive eastern bully is apparently an antiquated thought. Sad that kowtowing to communist leaders is now seen as leadership. The USSR had plenty of nukes when Reagan gave them his middle finger

Is that metaphorical "fighting" or are you suggesting US troops and/or pilots should be involved?

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Wouldn't you? I would be!
But there is demanding them, and respectfully asking for them. This is where Trumps comment about weak cards and strong cards come from. Bent knee, hat in hand we need you or YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND COCKSUCKER.
Which of these are less aggressive?
Z ain't done yet, but he's being taught a lesson in negotiation, from THE DON.
I can't say that I totally agree, but I'm VERY interested in how this works out.

Z isn't dumb.

This is just my theory, but I think he fully believes if he agrees to a cease-fire, all Putin will do is regenerate his army and come back when at full strength. He's not agreeing to anything without assurance that if that happens, they won't be left out to dry or squeezed for more then they are already going to have to give up.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Is that metaphorical "fighting" or are you suggesting US troops and/or pilots should be involved?

It’s standing up for your buddy in the school lunchroom when some dick bully starts pushing him. You’re bigger and badder than the bully and know that no punches will need to be thrown

 

[UncleMark]

This is just my theory, but I think he fully believes if he agrees to a cease-fire, all Putin will do is regenerate his army and come back when at full strength. He's not agreeing to anything without assurance that if that happens, they won't be left out to dry or squeezed for more then they are already going to have to give up.

Exactly. He wants security guarantees. He's not taking Putin's word for it.

 

[hookyIU1990]

It’s standing up for your buddy in the school lunchroom when some dick bully starts pushing him. You’re bigger and badder than the bully and know that no punches will need to be thrown

So troops then. If you start making threats to kick someone's ass, you'd better be ready to back it up.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Z isn't dumb.

This is just my theory, but I think he fully believes if he agrees to a cease-fire, all Putin will do is regenerate his army and come back when at full strength. He's not agreeing to anything without assurance that if that happens, they won't be left out to dry or squeezed for more then they are already going to have to give up.

I don't see anything that I disagree with you on this. He can't be a candy ass, he's working to save an entire country. He has to show some balls, followed by a few EF U's just to show strength. Negotiation 101.
But the dirt has to be handled in the back room, NOT in front of the press, as a tool.... That would have worked under Buyden or Obama... NFW under THE DON who OWNS those corksucekrs! He simply sucked at picking his attack mode.
Wrap up, Z has proven to lead WELL beyond his credentials, but he ain't king shit of the world. Everyone needs to be humbled every once in a while, especially when the people you represent are dying.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I don't see anything that I disagree with you on this. He can't be a candy ass, he's working to save an entire country. He has to show some balls, followed by a few EF U's just to show strength. Negotiation 101.
But the dirt has to be handled in the back room, NOT in front of the press, as a tool.... That would have worked under Buyden or Obama... NFW under THE DON who OWNS those corksucekrs! He simply sucked at picking his attack mode.
Wrap up, Z has proven to lead WELL beyond his credentials, but he ain't king shit of the world. Everyone needs to be humbled every once in a while, especially when the people you represent are dying.

What do you expect the guy to do when he's getting ambushed out in front of the media?

If he does nothing, he looks weak. His hand was played for him. He did the only thing he could and that was to stand up for his country.

I have zero issue with how he handled yesterday.

 

[hoosboot]

Z isn't dumb.

This is just my theory, but I think he fully believes if he agrees to a cease-fire, all Putin will do is regenerate his army and come back when at full strength. He's not agreeing to anything without assurance that if that happens, they won't be left out to dry or squeezed for more then they are already going to have to give up.

Yup. And Don just looks weaker and weaker. An actually strong leader doesn't need a public show of bending the knee. Actually strong leaders are confident that everyone already knows the score.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

What do you expect the guy to do when he's getting ambushed out in front of the media?

If he does nothing, he looks weak. His hand was played for him. He did the only thing he could and that was to stand up for his country.

I have zero issue with how he handled yesterday.

I may need to go back and watch the WHOLE thing, not just the MSM snipets, but I believe he drew first blood, AFTER some very successful negotiations. As I understand it, he pulled the ambush, and then THE DON and the Appalachian Assassin attempted to correct his errors of disrespect, while setting in OUR HOUSE.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I may need to go back and watch the WHOLE thing, not just the MSM snipets, but I believe he drew first blood, AFTER some very successful negotiations. As I understand it, he pulled the ambush, and then THE DON and the Appalachian Assassin attempted to correct his errors of disrespect, while setting on OUR HOUSE.

You need to watch it and not just clips.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

You need to watch it and not just clips.

But the whole thing seems to support my narrative, and the clips support yours. You have a stroke?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

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In Vermont?
I can't believe those people spent good money, that could have been Subaru outback payments and ecoexist bumper stickers! "Can't we all just think like I do"!
Yes that should be their state flag.

 

[mcmurtry66]

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Vacation? From what? Isn’t he like 40? Wtf? He’s been in office a month. Is this real?

 

[Baller23Boogie]

But the whole thing seems to support my narrative, and the clips support yours. You have a stroke?

Watch the press conference.

JD was way over his skis.