Woodson needs to go. Zero improvement

[Courtsensetwo]

The only problem I had with KS is the type of players he was bringing in. As for cheating he was probably not even as bad as the coach we just faced on Saturday.

Absolutely KS cheating was far far less than that POS Self.

I couldn't care less about phone calls although the mess cost us Robbie Hummel who was the prototypical Hoosier.

IU should never have fallen on the sword the way we did. Just step in and kick a few guys out and tell KS to be more selective or bye bye.

 

[abraxis]

I can at least understand the argument for BK getting a raw deal, but cannot imagine how KS got one. He was paid out for cheating and bringing in all sorts of bad actors.

KS is a POS.

I'll always contend the cell phone technology was new to everyone back then and I don't think he appreciated the fact that impermissive phone calls could be traced, otherwise he wouldn't have done it. IU should never have reported, in hindsight. Ask Kansas what they know and if you're still not convinced, ask UNC.

So KS was recruiting bad actors? We never got a chance to see how it was going to ultimately play out. Sure, he may have missed on seeing a rotten apple or two, but to say "all sorts of bad actors" is an overstatement. Do you think he's brought in all sorts of bad actors to Houston? See what their fan base has to say about the questionable characters he recruits on their way to the Final Four.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I'll always contend the cell phone technology was new to everyone back then and I don't think he appreciated the fact that impermissive phone calls could be traced, otherwise he wouldn't have done it. IU should never have reported, in hindsight. Ask Kansas what they know and if you're still not convinced, ask UNC.

So KS was recruiting bad actors? We never got a chance to see how it was going to ultimately play out. Sure, he may have missed on seeing a rotten apple or two, but to say "all sorts of bad actors" is an overstatement. Do you think he's brought in all sorts of bad actors to Houston? See what their fan base has to say about the questionable characters he recruits on their way to the Final Four.

I am not a Houston fan and never will be. They can think WETF they want about tha POs.

 

[DANC]

I am not a Houston fan and never will be. They can think WETF they want about tha POs.

Whatever is one word.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Whatever is one word.

Considered tha but the meaning changes in the acronym

 

[DANC]

Considered tha but the meaning changes in the acronym

Have you answered the drinking survey yet?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Have you answered the drinking survey yet?

Never saw it

 

[CriticArisen]

Speaking of drinking surveys can you imagine how drunk you would be if you had to down a shot every time Vitale said Daiper Dandies, The Maestro-Coach K, My Paisan-Coach Pitino, The General-Coach Knight, etc. during a broadcast. Alcoholic coma by halftime in many games.

 

[Lukeaxtell]

Absolutely KS cheating was far far less than that POS Self.

I couldn't care less about phone calls although the mess cost us Robbie Hummel who was the prototypical Hoosier.

IU should never have fallen on the sword the way we did. Just step in and kick a few guys out and tell KS to be more selective or bye bye.

Kansas guy who’s whole family is from Indiana and has been IU fan my whole life.. why do you think he’s “POS”.. like give me specifics

 

[ndhuntington]

And what proof do you have for this statement?
It seemed to be the consensus that IU approached Stevens but this is the first I have read about Matta.

Matta

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Which is why I said players…, plural. He has landed 3 top 30 recruits in 1.5 recruiting cycles. When was the last time that happened?

Didn't Archie get 2 in 2 years? Plus a couple other top 50s. Recruiting is a little better, but that is more a function of NIL and IUs support of it IMO more than Woodsen.

I think it's a testament to our fans/boosters/program that we got ANYONE to come during the Archie years.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Matta

That is dumb. If that were true they wouldn’t have hired him at all. I take KSR with a grain of salt.

No, Thad Matta Did Not Fail a Physical After Agreeing to a Deal With Indiana

The Internet blew up Monday afternoon as a report from Rivals circulated claiming Thad Matta had failed a physical after agreeing to a deal to become Indiana's

www.thebiglead.com

 

[Beorik]

Didn't Archie get 2 in 2 years? Plus a couple other top 50s. Recruiting is a little better, but that is more a function of NIL and IUs support of it IMO more than Woodsen.

I think it's a testament to our fans/boosters/program that we got ANYONE to come during the Archie years.

Yes Archie got 2 in 2 years. He also got 2 in 4 years. The 2 he got were likely coming to IU no matter what.

If not for Woodson I highly doubt Bates, JHS, or Reneau ever even consider IU.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but mine is that Woodson is the best recruiter we have had since Knight.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Yes Archie got 2 in 2 years. He also got 2 in 4 years. The 2 he got were likely coming to IU no matter what.

If not for Woodson I highly doubt Bates, JHS, or Reneau ever even consider IU.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but mine is that Woodson is the best recruiter we have had since Knight.

Also Lander, forgot about him.

So Archie had TJD, Romeo (the best overall recruit and its no terribly close), Lander, and Jerome Hunter as a top50

Woody has Bates, JHS, MR and some other 70-125 ranked kids just like Archie

I would call that about equal, and that is with NIL now in play. You can disagree and say those guys under Archie were "coming to IU anyway" but they still came here.

Does JHS or MR come here without NIL $?

 

[B1G_Fan]

Also Lander, forgot about him.

So Archie had TJD, Romeo (the best overall recruit and its no terribly close), Lander, and Jerome Hunter as a top50

Woody has Bates, JHS, MR and some other 70-125 ranked kids just like Archie

I would call that about equal, and that is with NIL now in play. You can disagree and say those guys under Archie were "coming to IU anyway" but they still came here.

Does JHS or MR come here without NIL $?

You are comparing 1 recruiting class with 4 for Archie.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

You are comparing 1 recruiting class with 4 for Archie.

2 recruiting classes for Woodsen. And that was 3 for Archie.

 

[Brewskie]

Absolutely KS cheating was far far less than that POS Self.

I couldn't care less about phone calls although the mess cost us Robbie Hummel who was the prototypical Hoosier.

IU should never have fallen on the sword the way we did. Just step in and kick a few guys out and tell KS to be more selective or bye bye.

At the time all the KS stuff went down, I didn't really care about the phone calls that much even though he had done it before. Just dumb. It was the lying to the University and the NCAA that had me convinced he had to go. I guess everyone lies to the NCAA once they've been caught. Does anyone think Self is being forthcoming with the truth right now? No, deny, lie and history has shown you'll not get hammered. Is that right? No, but it's the way it is.

 

[B1G_Fan]

2 recruiting classes for Woodsen. And that was 3 for Archie.

You count the inherited recruiting class for Woodson, but not the inherited recruiting class for Archie?

Archie:

Year 0: Justin Smith (78), Race Thompson (134), Clifton Moore (151), Al Durham (230)

Year 1: Romeo (7), Hunter (59), Anderson (134), RP (145), Forrester (157)

Year 2: TJD (30), Franklin (151)

Year 3: Lander (27), Geronimo (105), Leal (156), Galloway (157)


Woodson:

Year 0: Bates (30), Duncomb (73)

Year 1: JHS (23), Reneau (30), Banks (91), Gunn (176)

Archie avg: 114.73

Woodson avg: 71.17


Woodson has been far superior as a recruiter.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

You count the inherited recruiting class for Woodson, but not the inherited recruiting class for Archie?

Archie:

Year 0: Justin Smith (78), Race Thompson (134), Clifton Moore (151), Al Durham (230)

Year 1: Romeo (7), Hunter (59), Anderson (134), RP (145), Forrester (157)

Year 2: TJD (30), Franklin (151)

Year 3: Lander (27), Geronimo (105), Leal (156), Galloway (157)


Woodson:

Year 0: Bates (30), Duncomb (73)

Year 1: JHS (23), Reneau (30), Banks (91), Gunn (176)

Archie avg: 114.73

Woodson avg: 71.17


Woodson has been far superior as a recruiter.

And the parade of top kids visiting is a very good sign.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

And the parade of top kids visiting is a very good sign.

Anyone can visit, especially now with 5 OVs for juniors. That change is what, 2 years old?

 

[B1G_Fan]

And the parade of top kids visiting is a very good sign.

Eh. There are a lot of highly ranked players visiting, but we don’t seem to be recruiting to any sort of system.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

You count the inherited recruiting class for Woodson, but not the inherited recruiting class for Archie?

Archie:

Year 0: Justin Smith (78), Race Thompson (134), Clifton Moore (151), Al Durham (230)

Year 1: Romeo (7), Hunter (59), Anderson (134), RP (145), Forrester (157)

Year 2: TJD (30), Franklin (151)

Year 3: Lander (27), Geronimo (105), Leal (156), Galloway (157)


Woodson:

Year 0: Bates (30), Duncomb (73)

Year 1: JHS (23), Reneau (30), Banks (91), Gunn (176)

Archie avg: 114.73

Woodson avg: 71.17


Woodson has been far superior as a recruiter.

If you ignore NIL, yes.

 

[B1G_Fan]

If you ignore NIL, yes.

Lol that’s the entire fvcking point. NIL helps IU get recruits because we have great NIL support.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Lol that’s the entire fvcking point. NIL helps IU get recruits because we have great NIL support.

But that's not Woody - that's NIL.

NIL has made IUs recruiting a little better, Woody just happens to be the coach. That wasn't your point before.

 

[B1G_Fan]

But that's not Woody - that's NIL.

NIL has made IUs recruiting a little better, Woody just happens to be the coach. That wasn't your point before.

Woodson is a better recruiter than Archie. Even with that, NIL gives Woodson a boost which is why we had a top 10 recruiting class last year.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Woodson is a better recruiter than Archie. Even with that, NIL gives Woodson a boost which is why we had a top 10 recruiting class last year.

Good work constructing your argument to be able to morph it however you like to be "correct".

 

[B1G_Fan]

Good work constructing your argument to be able to morph it however you like to be "correct".

It’s the truth. We are better recruiting now because Woodson is better than Archie at it, and we have a strong program. It’s really that simple. Average ranking is almost 50 spots higher.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

It’s the truth. We are better recruiting now because Woodson is better than Archie at it, and we have a strong program. It’s really that simple. Average ranking is almost 50 spots higher.

Woody is "better" at it because of NIL. If Archie had NIL his recruits would be equal to Woody - which is basically the same recruit anyway.

Keeping bad recruits from Crean is on Archie, but those are the only ones that make it look worse than it was.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Woody is "better" at it because of NIL. If Archie had NIL his recruits would be equal to Woody - which is basically the same recruit anyway.

Keeping bad recruits from Crean is on Archie, but those are the only ones that make it look worse than it was.

Lol no, Archie would not get the same level of recruit. Woodson’s NBA experience appeals to recruits and Bates said playing for an African American coach was a priority for him.

Archie had plenty of guys ranked outside the top 100. Woodson has 1, and it was an Archie holdover.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Woody is "better" at it because of NIL. If Archie had NIL his recruits would be equal to Woody - which is basically the same recruit anyway.

Keeping bad recruits from Crean is on Archie, but those are the only ones that make it look worse than it was.

He is also better because he offers a ton of high level NCAA and NBA playing and coaching experience. Every one of the top recruits talks about that.

None of them talked about that with Archie.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Lol no, Archie would not get the same level of recruit. Woodson’s NBA experience appeals to recruits and Bates said playing for an African American coach was a priority for him.

Archie had plenty of guys ranked outside the top 100. Woodson has 1, and it was an Archie holdover.

Recruits from 75-150ish are basically the same. Its determining who in that range futs your culture/needs/system. Archie failed at that completely. He got the stars (recruiting-wise), he got no one else.

You can say guys want to play for Woody because of the NBA but it hasn't really made THAT much of a difference. The biggest difference is NIL.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Woody is "better" at it because of NIL. If Archie had NIL his recruits would be equal to Woody - which is basically the same recruit anyway.

Keeping bad recruits from Crean is on Archie, but those are the only ones that make it look worse than it was.

Recruits from 75-150ish are basically the same. Its determining who in that range futs your culture/needs/system. Archie failed at that completely. He got the stars (recruiting-wise), he got no one else.

You can say guys want to play for Woody because of the NBA but it hasn't really made THAT much of a difference. The biggest difference is NIL.

In what universe do you imagine that Woodson's pedigree as an NBA Coach AND Player doesn't influence recruiting? Wherever it is, it's not this one.

He is also better because he offers a ton of high level NCAA and NBA playing and coaching experience. Every one of the top recruits talks about that. None of them talked about that with Archie.

With good reason - he didn't/doesn't have any. Naught on his side of the argument but very weak 'sauce' .

 

[Sir_Saucy]

In what universe do you imagine that Woodson's pedigree as an NBA Coach AND Player doesn't influence recruiting? Wherever it is, it's not this one.



With good reason - he didn't/doesn't have any. Naught on his side of the argument but very weak 'sauce' .

We remember him as a player (I do barely). 16/17 year olds don't. And the kids have to say something about him when asked. And that's what he is pitching to them (likely).

Again, I'm not saying that those things don't matter for Woody, it just hasn't really translated to significantly better recruits. They are a little better at the back end. If NIL was a thing 4 years ago, IU and their fans/boosters raise that floor no matter who is coaching.

 

[ndhuntington]

That is dumb. If that were true they wouldn’t have hired him at all. I take KSR with a grain of salt.

No, Thad Matta Did Not Fail a Physical After Agreeing to a Deal With Indiana

The Internet blew up Monday afternoon as a report from Rivals circulated claiming Thad Matta had failed a physical after agreeing to a deal to become Indiana's

www.thebiglead.com

Jim Coyle also reported it.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Recruits from 75-150ish are basically the same. Its determining who in that range futs your culture/needs/system. Archie failed at that completely. He got the stars (recruiting-wise), he got no one else.

You can say guys want to play for Woody because of the NBA but it hasn't really made THAT much of a difference. The biggest difference is NIL.

You said the ONLY reason Woodson has recruited at a higher level is because of NIL. That’s false.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

You said the ONLY reason Woodson has recruited at a higher level is because of NIL. That’s false.

I said NIL is the biggest difference and without it we likely don't get JHS or MR making Woodson's recruiting far worse. His recruiting still isn't appreciably better than his predecessor. The lowest rated recruits are better, the top is worse.

 

[B1G_Fan]

I said NIL is the biggest difference and without it we likely don't get JHS or MR making Woodson's recruiting far worse. His recruiting still isn't appreciably better than his predecessor. The lowest rated recruits are better, the top is worse.

The top is not worse lol. If you are counting Lander in Archie’s top players, you are just dumb. Woodson has already proven with Booker that he won’t go after highly rated guys just because they are highly rated.

Archie was gift wrapped Romeo who is the only player Archie had that was more highly rated than JHS, Bates, and Reneau.

 

[Beorik]

Also Lander, forgot about him.

So Archie had TJD, Romeo (the best overall recruit and its no terribly close), Lander, and Jerome Hunter as a top50

Woody has Bates, JHS, MR and some other 70-125 ranked kids just like Archie

I would call that about equal, and that is with NIL now in play. You can disagree and say those guys under Archie were "coming to IU anyway" but they still came here.

Does JHS or MR come here without NIL $?

Yeah so funny. I forgot about Lander too. Smh, what a shame.

Listen I see what you are saying and I can see why you think it. I just believe that all 3 highly rated Indiana recruits were coming anyway. I also think the 3 top 30 recruits Woodson has gotten would not have considered IU if he wasn’t here. On top of that, I really like Banks who Woodson also recruited although lower rated. I feel like Woodson is recruiting really well.

I admit that we have the benefit of hindsight with recruiting prior to Woodson so maybe I end up being wrong.

 

[IUJoe]

Woodson needs to be a man and resign. IU is no better than last year and Woodson severely out coached when it matters. No shooters, out of control play, and just terrible effort. Purdue will curb stomp IU twice this year. This team may miss tournament

I stop by here once every few months to see if there's any intelligent discussion, or if the little kids still dominate this board. Thanks for the answer, kiddo.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

IU couldn’t or can’t handle a coach like Self. They are bad at the game. You think IU would’ve laughed at the NCAA with this adidas scandal? No way.

And we shouldn’t