no because UNC is out of the tourney they suck. We don’t suck and these wins greatly bolster our seeding. We haven’t made the tourney in 3 years. Imo these are huge wins. Is what it is unfortunately lol.
Well Archie is off all hot seats
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no because UNC is out of the tourney they suck. We don’t suck and these wins greatly bolster our seeding. We haven’t made the tourney in 3 years. Imo these are huge wins. Is what it is unfortunately lol.
ANY win in the barn is a big win. I don't what IU's record is in the barn but I bet it isn't that good.
The original reference stated "member" of AA. That sounds like a group like Al Anon or other.
I used to put them on ignore but the state of the board is that the mods encourage the BS so I vaporize them for sport. serious hoops posts are elsewhere.
I can't see any possible way to believe this backcourt = that high of a projection. Not by ranking, not by stats and not by eye test. Torvik using purely efficiency stats had us 11th/57th. Our group had us 8th/36th which I thought was too high. 3 seed implies top 12 in the nation. No freaking way ..
Our first option (TJD) would be third or lower option on half of teams in the conference. Our second option (Smith) would be fifth or lower in a majority and would have a hard time breaking into the starting lineup in many and our backcourt would struggle to break 20 minutes on half the teams. The only area we have talent equal to the conference best is in our four/five interior players .. the other perimeter positions are/were shaky at best and would rate lower half compared to the other big teams.
I just don't see it ..
Honest question. Are you the guy celebrating the arrest of our tight end over on GBI or do you have imposters as I do?
TJD and Smith would both start for every other team in the Big Ten. We have enough talent to be a top 4 team in the conference.
Look, the smart people are trying to have a conversation about something you barely understand and you're interrupting, again. There's a street just outside, go play in it and bleat your feelings there..
btw - comprehension goes a long way. Try it sometime.
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This.
I believe - and have been told by what I consider to be really smart basketball people - that winning is a byproduct of how you play. It is why I never believed Crean would take us to the promise land, because his high turnover, focused on deflection style of play required major-level talent - and even then would have been suspect on producing teams with a legitimate shot at championships.
When you look at how Archie wants to play - focus on defense, taking ball inside and valuing possessions (low turnovers) - you see this is a system that, once established, CAN provide consistent results. Still don’t know if I’m completely sold on the packline, but everything else about Archie’s style of play gives me reason to believe we’re heading in the right direction.
Why don't you stroll over to the Maryland forum and tell them that winning in the barn is not huge.
Lander is going to be 2020. Which fills a huge need, that I have been critical of. PG. he looks like he can dribble, will Be nice to have a ball handler.
Oh and btw.... we are winning.
when I'm talking about winning, I don't mean a couple games to put us on the north side of the tourney bubble, I mean back to winning games in the tourney, competing for conference titles and making a tourney run. That's ultimately what he has to do. You can talk about culture, and great kids that get super grades, but ultimately the only thing that will unite the fanbase and get us back to national relevancy is winning at the level I described.
BTW, in that pic, which is a good one, you're the guy with hat askew next to Jordy?
Well, they don't have phones on the scorer's tables anymore, so this was the next best thing I suppose!
For a self described smart person, you're extremely emotional and childish. My reading comprehension is fine. You were making another antiquated argument about how bad IU players are because you're a fanboy. Your post was just you expressing your feelings on IU players. It was devoid of any critical thought. Try pulling your head out of Archie's a#$ occasionally and coming up for air. You're losing much needed brain cells.
Well I am an owner of Doctor Marvins book, and I'm all about baby steps. we get to what you described??? Holy shit that seems like me getting with Jlo at this point. Yes, I'm the good looking one. That was taken in the concourse to the court at MI right after we won the B1G title. One of the best days of my life for sure.
As a bettor, I use Torvik and Kenpom quite a bit, as you know. That said, I wouldn't place my bar of expectation according to their forecasts, as a fan.
Built in to their numbers are past over-achievements (and under) as in the case of Texas Tech and Purdue this year. I had both in a cluster around #50 or so in Talent + Experience rankings, while Torvik had them #6 and #8 respectively (I knock out all mid-majors just because I don't want to do every roster).
So, if you grade your year off of Torvik, Painter and Beard have under-performed quite a bit this year, but they are still knocking it out of the park according to mine. Torvik had MSU and Florida #1 and #2, while I had them #19 and #20.
Don't get me wrong though, in the long run the analytics guys beat my preseason numbers up pretty good. I know that my own baseline numbers really aren't as predictive as they could be if I were to start making adjustments based on performance.
As a bettor, you don't want to be on the wrong side of coaching mismatches on a regular basis. I've become pretty comfortable grading coaching just based on the difference between my numbers and the analytics. If my numbers say that your team sucks and analytics says it's great = great coaching and vice versa.
I don't really use my pre-season stuff as more than a roster structure reference during the season. After the season is over, I grade coaches. There are many valid excuses, but, since I can't keep track of them all, I just exclude them. After a while the good coaches rise to the top excuses or not.
A #3 seed probably is unfair based on all we know about our own team. I do the same thing for every team though. I find their expected seed according to ranking, then assume good to great coaching should improve your seed line by up to 4 seed lines. IU ranked #23 which becomes #3- #6.
Anyway, perhaps I shouldn't reference my numbers when even I don't expect them to be nearly as predictive as the analytics guru's. I think I've pointed out quite often that mine are based purely on recruiting rankings + experience... nothing else. They serve the purpose that I want them to serve.
Jordy is 6'0".
So the goofy looking, 5'6", sideways hat-wearing dork is our fry oil salesman?
Figures.
5'8 and would whoop your ass today, tomorrow or any day you chooseJordy is 6'0".
So the goofy looking, 5'6", sideways hat-wearing dork is our fry oil salesman?
Figures.
wife beater boy.I should've also said that I pretty much agree with everything you said. This may not make any sense, but I think it's easy to say "Are you kidding me... look at this sorry backcourt"! Sure it's true, but should it be true?
Even based on recruiting rankings and experience, our backcourt players are pretty much exactly living up to expectations. Devonte, as 3*/3*/3* (I like to show all 3 services) senior, is pretty much what would be expected. Al (4*,3*,3*) junior... ditto. Phin (4*,4*,4*) soph... maybe a little low, but he's supposed to come into his own as a junior. Franklin (4*,4*,3*) joins Rob as meeting my Highly Touted benchmark and has been about what one might expect.
So what's the problem? I've been of the expectation that Archie would be one of those "greater than the sum of the parts" type coaches. This team has frontcourt depth and talent sufficient to stay off of the NCAA bubble, maybe even a #6 seed, if the guards can play just a bit above their heads. Devonte had logged nearly 2,000 minutes coming into the season. Rob and Al came into the season with tons of minutes relative to their class.
The backcourt has mostly been subpar, which would be okay if we're Minnesota or K-State. At Indiana with a home-run hire coach, I have difficulty brushing off the guard play as simply a result of talent.
I think Crean was only as good as his talent and frankly he rarely even meets the level of his talent. Is it too much to ask to see an IU team outperform it's talent level? I don't think so and I think it usually boils down to high quality coaching.
Also... the season isn't over. Still time to hit their stride!
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I was joking. I guess I need the smiley face or something so people know it's a joke.
I think he meant Archie Apologist which is a stupid thing to call people that don't panic after every loss and haven't lost confidence in Archie. None of us make apologies for him but we see the situation different. In my case I've got a few years of watching Archie UD and I liked what I saw there. I see IU playing that way at times too. The defense the last two games is coming around big time and when IU makes a few outside shots they look like a good offense because it opens up the inside. Archie's recruiting has been very good and encouraging with mostly 4 stars and much better than at UD as I expected. Lander just upped the recruiting to excellent. Landing Kaufman too will up it to outstanding. I think we all have good reason to be optimistic now.
DG is what he is.
Phin has been hurt..a lot and hopefully stabilizes the balance of the year.
Franklin still has a lot of upside.
As a former1, I would expect AM to bring them along faster. That has not been a check in his column thus far.
Whatever, Costanza.5'8 and would whoop your ass today, tomorrow or any day you choose
My pre-season roster rankings are 50/50 recruiting rankings and experience level. I don't know if I would go as far as calling it analysis, since it makes up very little of what I use to quantify a good bet. I do use it to evaluate coaching though, because there are no other analytics that I'm aware of that try to evaluate coaching.
I try not to bet the wrong way on coaching mismatches, which is the primary purpose I suppose. Even though I like IU tonight, I won't bet it because I'd be spitting into the wind of a percieved coaching mismatch. In time Archie may prove otherwise, but so far he hasn't.
Can't give the guy true fan sh*t. That's an awful lot of IU gear packed into one outfit. He looks like a manager.
One thing that seems to be the case here is that people view "talent" in a vacuum. We see people ask "how many teams in the B10 would Green start for"? It's really not the right question, or I should say there is no way to answer that question. Too many other variables have to be considered. Maybe Green is 1st team all Big Ten on another team, maybe Cassius Winston is a bust if he's not at MSU. I'm not saying that it would be so, all I am saying is how a player does is a function of a number of different factors.
In an extreme example I have often wondered how things might be different if Tom Brady had been drafted by the Bears and Ryan Leaf by the Patriots. So much of sports is the mental part, and there are a lot of different things that go into that. Brady will go down in history as the GOAT and Leaf as the #1 bust, but "talent" is only part of the story.
Exactly! What would Justin look like with 3 years under Izzo? Maybe he would've busted completely and transferred to Nebraska, or maybe he would be an All-Big 10 performer. One thing in favor of Archie here is that coaches recruit guys that they believe can thrive under their particular tutelage. Devonte and Justin, I think may have had much better careers with the right coach, but just because Miller might not be the best fit for those two doesn't necessarily mean he can't coach or develop.
Crean had kind of a strange advantage in that he started from scratch. Sounds bad, but quite quickly he stockpiled Crean players. Archie will finally be at that point next season (mostly). The "haters" don't like that excuse, and I really don't either, but it's still true.
Lots of factors... permutations endless
So cute, you have Napoleon Syndrome. He just a wittle guy. Who’s a good boy, you want a treat?5'8 and would whoop your ass today, tomorrow or any day you choose
it may be true, but it didn’t have to take 4 years to start the rebuild. No one forced miller to rely on all the crean players and to recruit so many 1-2 year players. The advantage Crean had was the team had no ceiling. Thus he could play solely for the future. Miller has a veteran team built to win now, and a fan base that has bottom of the barrel expectations.
Pretty tough to try to rebuild from the ashes when you have as much talent and experience to work with as anyone in the conference. Having the Crean players that he has relied on so heavily, plus the one and two year players (Romeo, Fitzner, Brunk and TJD) has delayed the rebuild.
So being short means you are like a dog? Good logic there numb nuts. Keep following.
The problem is-you think you're somebody.
Hell, you don't even know how to wear a hat.
Supposedly Crean left our APR in such bad shape that Archie was kindof handcuffed in regards to blowing up the roster.
Still in not sure blowing up the roster would have made much difference.
Crean's recruiting was pretty much DOA (Justin was his highest rated recruit of his last class. Cliff got a last minute bump from rivals but was basically an unranked recruit as was Durham). Archie was losing Blackmon, Bryant and OG off of an NIT team.
So he did have a mini rebuild in my mind.
He didn't turn it around as fast as I would have liked but if he makes the tournament this year...hes kind of back on track.
I wasn't sure he was going to make the tournament two weeks ago and it's still not in the bag.
Other than that I've been extremely happy with his stewardship. His recruiting has been pretty damn good (Brooks was his only local miss and we were in his final two).
He rebuilt with four year players vs a quicker fix so that takes a little longer to establish the base.
He's had some injury issues with his key recruits (Romeo, Hunter, Race and Rob).
He's also brought in outstanding kids. It's been since Knight that we've had the kinds of student athletes that we have now. Also our off court police blotter issues have pretty much dissapeared with this group.
Coach K once said the secret to his success was recruiting the most talented, high character kids because no matter how talented a kid is, they can really drain the program when you have to babysit them.
So again, if he makes the tournament after a small rebuild in year three I think we're on track.
That means the base is built, the identity is established and making the tournament is the base expectation going forward.
I think he's getting us there.
[QUOTE="TommyCracker, post: 2883707, member: 4924
He rebuilt with four year players vs a quicker fix so that takes a little longer to establish the base.
[/QUOTE]
I agree wholeheartedly with you, except for the part about the 4 year players. Not to keep beating the same dead horse, but I have questioned an over reliance on one and two year players. Three years in and what do we have?
romeo - played a year
Fitzner - played a year
Brunk - will play 2 years
TJD - will play 2 years (most likely)
if DA leaves, he’ll be the second (?) transfer
leaving as 4 year players:
Phin
Franklin
Race
Am I missing anyone? Is that 33% of the players that he brought in being 4 year players?
Edit: forgot Hunter. 4/10 as 4 year players
He rebuilt with four year players vs a quicker fix so that takes a little longer to establish the base.
[/QUOTE]
I agree wholeheartedly with you, except for the part about the 4 year players. Not to keep beating the same dead horse, but I have questioned an over reliance on one and two year players. Three years in and what do we have?
romeo - played a year
Fitzner - played a year
Brunk - will play 2 years
TJD - will play 2 years (most likely)
if DA leaves, he’ll be the second (?) transfer
leaving as 4 year players:
Phin
Franklin
Race
Am I missing anyone? Is that 33% of the players that he brought in being 4 year players?
Edit: forgot Hunter. 4/10 as 4 year players
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We don’t want 5 star recruits though. But if we land one let’s give the coach an extension! But if they go somewhere else, well we didn’t want them we need 4 year guys.
